Another Silent Treatment Question

[CPWUSAF33]

I've been the recipient of the proverbial "silent treatment" for over a week now.  I did do something wrong; but, not to the magnitude that she has taken it (you all know what I'm talking about here).  I'm trying to find out the best way to respond... .

I have researched the archives on this forum and read numerous posts until my eyes fell out of my head.

It seems the number one response is, ":)o nothing--Go about your life--go for a ride--read a book--go to a movie--just enjoy yourself and wait... . "

That sounds good, I think I can do that; but, here's my question.  If I just "do nothing" and go about my life and wait, aren't I in-turn also engaging in the "silent treatment" to my BPD wife?  Aren't I verbally abusing her now?

I would be grateful for any suggestions... .   I'm new to the site and I'm on lesson 4 on BPD relationships.  I am also reading the book "Loving Someone With Borderline Personality Disorder" by Shari Y. Manning PhD.  I'm sure there are answers in all the lessons when I get there; but, I sure could use some immediate help/advice.

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[joshbjoshb]

But why do you say that?

She doesn't talk to you. You are not running after her to appease her for... . her choice, right? So why are you "Abusing"? You are simply keeping to yourself, right?

If you would choose to not talk to her, it's one thing. But she did.

[CPWUSAF33]

But why do you say that?

She doesn't talk to you. You are not running after her to appease her for... . her choice, right? So why are you "Abusing"? You are simply keeping to yourself, right?

If you would choose to not talk to her, it's one thing. But she did.

That is a good point.  I didn't see it that way; but, that makes sense... .

[CPWUSAF33]

One more thing--if she ever eventually comes out of this, she will let me have it with both barrells on what I did wrong.  What happens when she goes into this silent mode, is that she is building up more and more anger by going over and over the situation in her mind. She is basically having a conversation with herself.  So, when this ends, it will not be pretty... . She will go into another fit of rage with absurd accusations, THAT ALSO ACTUALLLY HAVE SOME TRUTH mixed in.

Then it happens--I don't know what to say.  If I say nothing, then I am avoiding and initiating silence.  If I try to make her see the "gray" area that she is not capable of seeing, that will trigger another episode and make things worse.  If I "validate" the small part of where she was correct in the matter, that is never enough.  She wants me to fully agree and admit to her absurdity. 

It is hard to have a convesation with her of any meaning since her thoughts and outlook on things is so irrational. 

I'm trying desperately to read ahead in the book and this forum to find answers.  You're helping me Josh--thank-you.  If you can offer any more suggestions I would be grateful.

[Mono No Aware]

I've been the recipient of the proverbial "silent treatment" for over a week now. 

It seems the number one response is, ":)o nothing--Go about your life--go for a ride--read a book--go to a movie--just enjoy yourself and wait... . "

That sounds good, I think I can do that; but, here's my question.  If I just "do nothing" and go about my life and wait, aren't I in-turn also engaging in the "silent treatment" to my BPD wife?  Aren't I verbally abusing her now?

First, over a week is way harsh. It means her reset to split you white again is not happening. Either she is really on a hard warpath, in which case batten your hatches for more storms, captain, or maybe your behavior is making it worse.

The "do nothing" means Don't JADE: Justify, Attack, Defend, Engage.

But you can make light conversation without doing these things.

Last week I triggered a big blow-up by JADEing like a dam fool in the face of mounting dysregulation, then came to my senses and used light small talk to gradually establish a sense of calm and normality. The silence and dagger-looks persisted but the attacks and threats of leaving stopped. The next day I kept up the calm and normality, this is something pwBPD need in their lives as much as their episodes destroy it, and eventually she spoke again.

So dive back into The Lessons... .

One more thing--if she ever eventually comes out of this, she will let me have it with both barrells on what I did wrong.  What happens when she goes into this silent mode, is that she is building up more and more anger by going over and over the situation in her mind. She is basically having a conversation with herself.  So, when this ends, it will not be pretty... . She will go into another fit of rage with absurd accusations, THAT ALSO ACTUALLLY HAVE SOME TRUTH mixed in.

Then it happens--I don't know what to say.  If I say nothing, then I am avoiding and initiating silence.  If I try to make her see the "gray" area that she is not capable of seeing, that will trigger another episode and make things worse.  If I "validate" the small part of where she was correct in the matter, that is never enough.  She wants me to fully agree and admit to her absurdity.

Jumpin' Jesus on a pogo stick, if I had a nickel for every post I read on this forum where I say "Hey that's word-for-word my experience too!" I would buy some nice single-malt scotch. And drink it.

The best you can do is to not make it worse.

Don't JADE, apply validation to the little stray blurps not the big explosions, and stick to your guns that she needs therapy. Seek to defuse, shoot maybe you have to trigger the blowup for her to complete her splitting cycle.

And remember you are not alone.

[CPWUSAF33]

Mono No Aware:

Thank-you so much for your reply.  I tried "small talk" yesterday and that was the only time she said something back.  She said and I quote, "I wish you would quit makin F---king small talk!"

Your thoughts are helpful though--really they are--I appreaciate all you said and I am diving into the lessons. If only I could get her to a therapist!  I really believe the DBT would help.  But, whenever I try to lead her into seeing someone, it results in a blow up. I've been to see counselors myself and they don't understand BPD--I think I stressed them out by coming into sessions.  One counselor pretty much came to the conclusion, "It sucks to be you, there is nothing I can do for you unless you can get your wife to come in."  I'm trying; but, I have had no sucess--I even cringe at the thought of brining it up since I know what's next... .

BTW, I have a bottle of Glen Fiddich (sp?) single malt (12 Year Old) scotch my boys gave me for Christmas.  I've had only two drinks out of it so far when my son was home.  It will last me literally for years.  If I could, I would offer you a drink.  They also gave me these really classy shot glasses to use with it since I like it "neat."  I think I know what I will enjoy tonight--I could use one... . Cheers!

[CPWUSAF33]

Well here I am into week two of the silent treatment... .

Yesterday was really wierd--My wife made my son and I dinner (as usual a great meal--she is the most gifted cook I have ever known).  BTW, she has made dinner on other nights during the ST episode; but, did not eat with us.  But tonight she sat down with us to eat--not a word was spoken by anyone.  I tried to start a conversation about the snowstorm that is coming tomorrow--NOTHING--still dead silence from her and my son.  They both finihed there food left me alone at the table.

The look on my wifes face was literally evil all through her eating. 

Is that progress?  I'm going crazy here (okay I'm already there--truly I must be crazy to be willing to live like this). 

[flatspin]

One more thing--if she ever eventually comes out of this, she will let me have it with both barrells on what I did wrong.  What happens when she goes into this silent mode, is that she is building up more and more anger by going over and over the situation in her mind. She is basically having a conversation with herself.  So, when this ends, it will not be pretty... . She will go into another fit of rage with absurd accusations, THAT ALSO ACTUALLLY HAVE SOME TRUTH mixed in.

Then it happens--I don't know what to say.  If I say nothing, then I am avoiding and initiating silence.  If I try to make her see the "gray" area that she is not capable of seeing, that will trigger another episode and make things worse.  If I "validate" the small part of where she was correct in the matter, that is never enough.  She wants me to fully agree and admit to her absurdity. 

It is hard to have a convesation with her of any meaning since her thoughts and outlook on things is so irrational. 

I'm trying desperately to read ahead in the book and this forum to find answers.  You're helping me Josh--thank-you.  If you can offer any more suggestions I would be grateful.

Silent treatment is a punishment. The more it works, the harder and the more often she will use it to that end. You interpret her ways and feel about them as a healthy person. She definitely doesn't think the same way. If you play the "game" according to her rules, you're a goner. If her punishment hit the target in the bull's eye, why should she change ? She'll use it as a lever against you any time she will feel like it in the future and seeing you "crawl" at her feet will reinforce that behaviour.

You are the healthy person in your couple and it is up to you to decide what the rules are. She doesn't have the strength to cope with situations that she isn't controlling. Use her rules against her, but as a healthy and loving person.

She'll cave in in the end, time is by your side. She won't use silent treatment against you anymore if she realises that it doesn't pay off. In the meantime, read the lessons, learn from our experiences so you can nip it in the bud and pull the carpet under her feet in that regard.

You have feelings for her, tame them for her good. Don't project them on her, guessing that she is feeling the same things as you. She's unable to do the same.

Edit : And as was said in another post, please don't JADE. You're just wasting your time and energy and giving her more reasons to punish you.

JADE : Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain

[Mono No Aware]

I tried "small talk" yesterday and that was the only time she said something back.  She said and I quote, "I wish you would quit makin F---king small talk!"

Ah, a sign that she is frustrated that her punishment is not having the desired effect of devastating you. Keep up the small talk!

[CPWUSAF33]

Silent treatment is a punishment. The more it works, the harder and the more often she will use it to that end. You interpret her ways and feel about them as a healthy person. She definitely doesn't think the same way. If you play the "game" according to her rules, you're a goner. If her punishment hit the target in the bull's eye, why should she change ? She'll use it as a lever against you any time she will feel like it in the future and seeing you "crawl" at her feet will reinforce that behaviour.

You are the healthy person in your couple and it is up to you to decide what the rules are. She doesn't have the strength to cope with situation that she isn't controlling. Use her rules against her, but as a healthy and loving person.

She'll cave in in the end, time is by your side. She won't use silent treatment against you anymore if she realises that it doesn't pay off. In the meantime, read the lessons, learn from our experiences so you can nip it in the bud and pull the carpet under her feet in that regard.

You have feelings for her, tame them for her good. She's unable to do the same.

Thanks flatspin--I am staying strong--I have not given in.  The reason I struggle with it, is because there is some underlying truth to her anger.  I did do something wrong and I am sorry.  However, I will continue to wait for her to break the silence.  It gets a little easier and harder every day--if that makes sense.

[CPWUSAF33]

I tried "small talk" yesterday and that was the only time she said something back.  She said and I quote, "I wish you would quit makin F---king small talk!"

Ah, a sign that she is frustrated that her punishment is not having the desired effect of devastating you. Keep up the small talk!

Thanks Mono--you may be correct.  I tried "small talk" again last night to no avail... . but, she didn't lash out--probably because my son was present.

[flatspin]

Silent treatment is a punishment. The more it works, the harder and the more often she will use it to that end. You interpret her ways and feel about them as a healthy person. She definitely doesn't think the same way. If you play the "game" according to her rules, you're a goner. If her punishment hit the target in the bull's eye, why should she change ? She'll use it as a lever against you any time she will feel like it in the future and seeing you "crawl" at her feet will reinforce that behaviour.

You are the healthy person in your couple and it is up to you to decide what the rules are. She doesn't have the strength to cope with situation that she isn't controlling. Use her rules against her, but as a healthy and loving person.

She'll cave in in the end, time is by your side. She won't use silent treatment against you anymore if she realises that it doesn't pay off. In the meantime, read the lessons, learn from our experiences so you can nip it in the bud and pull the carpet under her feet in that regard.

You have feelings for her, tame them for her good. She's unable to do the same.

Thanks flatspin--I am staying strong--I have not given in.  The reason I struggle with it, is because there is some underlying truth to her anger.  I did do something wrong and I am sorry.  However, I will continue to wait for her to break the silence.  It gets a little easier and harder every day--if that makes sense.

If you feel guilty, just wait for her to stop the silent treatment and talk about your feelings once the situation is back to normal. If you apologize too easily, she'll make the connection between her behaviour and your reactions... . It's not because you made a mistake that she's right to act this way. Please, once again, don't let her make a connection between your "contrition" and her abuse, otherwise, you're busted. Abusive behaviours must never ever be rewarded ! No matter why !

You mustn't be sorry because her silent treatment hit the target but because you truly mean it. She can't distinguish both things in her mind unless you teach her to.

[CPWUSAF33]

You mustn't be sorry because her silent treatment hit the target but because you truly mean it. She can't distinguish both things in her mind unless you teach her to.

I didn't get the last part of this statement, "She can't distinguish both things in her mind unless you teach her to."

What both things is it that she can't distinguish.  She can't distinguish between my saying I'm sorry because she hit the target with being truly sorry?  Is that what you're saying.  If that is true, then saying "I'm sorry is pointless."  I think I'm missing something here.  Please try to explain.  I am listening and I value your advice.  I totally agree with everything you said in the first part of the post.  And it has helped me stay strong.  I have not given in/rewarded her "silent treatment."

What I am having trouble with, is reconciling the fact that at this moment, and for nearly two-weeks, she actually truly hates me.  That's hard to get my head around--especially when I have been a faithful and loving husband and have been an excellent provider.

Thanks for your input--I do hope to hear more from you.

[Perez]

CPWUSAF33,

Sorry about your situation, I can relate.  I have been receiving the silent treatment now for about 4 months.  It started out more or less how you described with total silence and intensely nasty looks.  I continued the small talk from the beginning and my uBPDw eventually responded after a couple of weeks.  We converse about family issues such as scheduling and some small talk but that is about it.  I am still ignored quite often, we do not talk about anything personal, she does not tell me about her day, etc.

Ironically, this started because I finally decided not to JADE, explaining to her that I would not argue or explain myself to her anymore when she made unreasonable demands and criticisms in her rages.  The silent treatment began immediately. 

There have been very few all out rages since then, the least frequent in our marriage, but lots of contempt.  It is very difficult, but in my heart waiting for her to end the silence seems to be the right step.

[CPWUSAF33]

Perez:

Thanks for responding--Well, you finally received response to the "small talk" and the rages are less frequent--that at least is something positive.  I hope you can build on that and restore meaningful communication.

I did not JADE this time when she first went into rage about two-weeks ago.  Her response to my "non-response" was/is to punish me with silence.  I never established that boundary--I simply have decided not to JADE.  I did not know anything about "boundaries" until I came to this forum.  It seems that you indeed did establish that boundary--that is good on you--congratulations.  If she ever opens up, I hope to "validate" and "set boundaries" and do many of the other things suggested here.  I just pray I'll get the chance.  Right now it seem like that will never happen--It is so oppressive... . My attempts at "small talk" seems to be making matters worse.

Thanks again for sharing and I do wish you well! 

[Mono No Aware]

I am still following this situation's progress or lack thereof.

That long of a silent treatment is outside my uBPDw experience.

I have a theory: perhaps she is frozen in that mode as a self-preservation tactic of emotional stability. Two weeks is a long time, she must be actively maintaining this attitude. There is a certain stability to a set routine of default emotions, even if they are negative. I have seen old married couples trading well-worn barbs in bitter but decades-old arguments out of comfortable habit.

Just a theory.

[losinghope97]

CPWUSAF33,

Two weeks is a long time to stay in that mode.  In the first 17 years of my marriage to my uBPDw, I had only one episode that went that that long, but in the last 4 years there have been numerous.  For whatever reason, her 'painting me black' took a significant turn for the worse in the last 4 years and has become what I would consider permanent.

Your current situation will probably pass (as they usually do), but in the back of your mind begin to do the mental preparation just in case this is her final devaluation phase.  There will be very little normalcy if she paints you permanently black, and any reality you know about the value you have to her, or the care/love she used to have for will no longer exist in her world.

I know you are in the middle of torture, (I am on day 4 of the current silent treatment, which is the 3rd of the year already) and don't want to add more to worry, but wanted to address the worst case scenario so you are prepared on all fronts.

LH97

[CPWUSAF33]

Losinghope97:

That would be devestating to me... .   I don't know what to say right now.  Just reading that has my stomach in knots.  It is reality though--you are correct I do need to think about what would happen if it ends up being permanent.

Thanks for sharing your story also.  From the little you posted our situation is very similar--my uBPDw's episodes have become much more frequent in the last couple of years.

Even though that hit me like a baseball bat to the gut, I needed to hear that and process it... .

Peace be with you!

[CPWUSAF33]

Well I'm going on week three of the Silent Treatment.

From what I've read in the study guides on here and in most books, is that this is NOT typical of a pwBPD.  The episodes typically are SHORT in duration.  Although episodes are much more frequent than I would like, I must say, that this is the longest duration yet.

I'm starting to think this is the end--has she finally come to the conclusion I'm evil forever? 

In one month, we'll be true "empty nesters"--I was so looking forward to that.  I have saved tons of money and am virtually debt free (my BPD wife does not have wild spending habits like some--thank God).  I was hoping to truly retire and travel the world with my wife and work hard on the skills I've learned from the lessons here.  Looks like I may never get the chance.  This is really depressing me to the lowest point I have ever been in my life--and I didn't think that was possible.

[elemental]

I have gotton loads of silent treatment.

This is what I have found:

- don't bother abasing yourself to try and get her to crack

- validation is validations of feelings. Not whatever "facts" she is believing. remember she is upset emotionally. it is not about facts.

- BPD people are extremely sensitive to the people around them. she can feel your contempt for her "absurd accusations". Skip over passing judgement, mainly because it won't be effective and is making it worse.

- until she calms down, you have nothing. she is clearly very angry and underlying that is likely pain, fear, and shame. don't bother with small talk for now. Simply inform facts until she relaxes enough to try and kick the crap out of you.

- when she tries to kick the crap out of you, this time, in the interest of getting more of what you want in the end, listen to her. Listen quietly to her FEELINGS. What is she feeling? Then apply SET. Do not JADE. This will likely calm her down a bit. IF you get to a point in the situation that you are not willing/able to handle the discussion without getting upset back at her, take a break. Tell her what she is feeling and saying is really important to you and you would like to take a break for a day or an hour, whatever, and talk more when she wants to. at that point do some self care... eat, go for a walk, watch a movie.

- repeat ad nauseum... . until she feels you are on her side and can be trusted and are not an opponent she had to fight. because right now, you are the enemy, you are the person she is trying to defend against.

All of the above is to get her calm enough so you can work with her with the new tools you are learning on this site.

And yes, it sucks to end up here. By the time people get here, myself included, we are very upset, frustrated and want to be soothed and taken care of ourselves.

So your feelings are very valid, it sucks, we all feel terrible for what we have been going through. Hopefully we can find a path through. I hope you will also. 

[PacifistMom]

In one month, we'll be true "empty nesters"--I was so looking forward to that.  I have saved tons of money and am virtually debt free (my BPD wife does not have wild spending habits like some--thank God).  I was hoping to truly retire and travel the world with my wife and work hard on the skills I've learned from the lessons here.  Looks like I may never get the chance.  This is really depressing me to the lowest point I have ever been in my life--and I didn't think that was possible.

Major changes - whether they seem to be good, bad, or neutral - set off the roller coaster of dysregulation in our house.

You and your wife have a major change coming up that will change your life, your definitions of who you are (i.e. a parent with children living with you), your day-to-day routine and home dynamic. There will also be no buffer (your son).

I don't have any advice as I cannot seem to figure out how to communicate with my uBPDh at the moment but I just wanted to offer my observation here as I find there is always something(s) bigger bothering him behind the ten million things I am doing wrong and that ANY kind of change is a huge dysregulator.

[CPWUSAF33]

Thanks Zencat--that was a good run down. I would be thankful if it gets to that point.  Right now it seems permanent... .  

Pacifist Mom--Thank-you also for your post.  YES! You're correct--I'm sure the change that is coming has a lot to do with her going into this long period of "black."  I actually think part of it is her guilt because the son that is leaving is the one that has been most adversely affected by her BPD.  Yes, she blames me for all of his short-comings; but, she must know deep inside that she was the major contributing factor to his not "facing the world" until late in life.  She blames me "babying him" and letting him "rule the house"... . Neither are true.  He was beat down all his life and afraid to try anything because of his hyper-critical mother.

Change whether good/bad/indifferent always sets off my uBPDw!

I'm going to church this morning and that will at least give me a couple of hours out of the house.  I plan on just reading today and watching the Super Bowl.  She usually makes great "finger food" every year for the Super Bowl.  I think this year I'll be eating chips and leftovers LOL!

[CPWUSAF33]

UPDATE:

I am the one that started this thread.

Today is a day shy of three-weeks of Silent Treatment.  When I came home from work today it began snowing.  I mentioned to my uBPDw, "It's Snowing!"  And suddenly after three weeks she acknowledge me and broke her silence.  She is now acting like nothing happened.  She usually let's me have it with verbal abuse after the silence is broken.  But, this time, she is absolutely calm and congenial.

As always, I will completely forgive and forget.  I'm just pleased things are at a quiescent state.

From what I've read 3-weeks of silent treatment is atypical of a pwBPD.  According to the articles I've read on here, the ST episodes are usually short in duration.  This was the longest one I've ever endured.

Thank-you to everyone on here who posted and helped me through this.  I managed with all of your encouragement to take care of myself during this period.  I actually decided to enjoy the quiet and take advantage of it.  At least for three-weeks I did not have to validate or try to respond to some irrational rant.

BPD is amazing--I cannot imagine there are no shades of gray in their world.

Peace to everyone!

[acknowledgement]

Silent treatment is torture and confusing. I have a lifelong friend w BPD and have had the silent treatment several times, always over feelings not facts and often over a perceived injustice. This time, my birthday, I responded to her e mail on my birthday saying she wanted to wish me a fantastic day and call to wish me happy birthday later... i asked her to call my house phone as cell wasn't working well and she then never called and would not return my calls, and then sent e mail that "things are different and she does not want to talk RIGHT NOW and since she didn't know my cell wasn't working that is different in our relationship and she is looking at us from another viewpoint". I also recently had surgery and out of work so the e mail also said "this doesn't mean I don't want u to feel  well because i do but since you didn't call me when you didn't feel better our relationship is different and silence is golden". this was over a ten day period). It's a struggle for the rational side to comprehend and to know what to do... . this is a long distance friendship, so i will not see her without a plan... . do I attempt a SET e mail communication to validate that I care about her feelings and do I try to call again. Is this about fear of abandonment as she states things are different? She also seems to use silent treatment around my birthday and also when my chips are down (deaths in family,surgery)... . I am so sad and confused as I know Sheri's hurting and is not mentally regulated, but she's been a part of my life for decades and I always thought my friendship could help see her through this... . she's destroyed or damaged many other family and friend relationships and has a mother w bipolar disorder... . any advice on if I should call again or send SET e mail... . I so appreciate your help w ending the silence.(going on week two)... .

[CPWUSAF33]

I wish I had some advice for you acknowledgement.  It seems like you're doing the right thing and only time will tell how it turns out.

As for me--the silence was broken two days ago after THREE WEEKS!  However, last night my uBPDw went to our guest room to read and watch TV and to avoid me.  This morning I went to get her favorite donuts.  The place only takes cash so I only had enough money for a dozen donuts and one breakfast sandwich.  I made her coffee and told her about the Croissant sandwich.  She asked, ":)id you only buy one?"  I said yes, I didn't have enough cash.  She then proceeded to make a different breakfast for herself and I'm back into being punished with ST and a look of hatred on her face.

I feel like I cannot handle this burden any more.  We've been married 38 years and I was able to deal with her BPD over the years; but, it has suddenly taken a turn for the worse and I really didn't think it could ever get any worse.

I do wish you well "acknowledgement"  Let us know how it all works out... .

[PacifistMom]

How are things this week?

It's exhausting (yet encouraging not to be alone) how many of these stories feel so intimately accurate:

she blames me for all of his short-comings; but, she must know deep inside that she was the major contributing factor to his not "facing the world" until late in life.  She blames me "babying him" and letting him "rule the house"... . Neither are true.  He was beat down all his life and afraid to try anything because of his hyper-critical mother.

Already here with my little girl ... . she's not quite 4 and barely 35 lbs but since the day she was born (i.e. a baby) I've been wrong for "babying" her, spoiling her, letting her "control" me ... .

[CPWUSAF33]

This week I suppose things are "better"--a relative term for us "Nons."

My uBPDw is now at least speaking to me.  No real conversation of any meaning and is easily angered by the slightest flaw in the day.  

The 3-weeks plus of silent treatment was the longest yet in our 37 year marriage.  And, now the situation is surreal--I literally feel like a stranger in my own home. It seems like this time was different--she usually returns to painting me "white" after a "black" episode has finally concluded; but, this time she has become a totally different person.  She is basically numb (if you know what I mean).  She's here; but, she's not here.  It is like I'm sharing the house with a roommate that as assigned to my house.  Right now it's like we have two separate lives and live under the same roof.  It's never been that way before.  

How are things going for you pacifist mom?  I doubt you're spoiling your young child.  She needs your attention right now and at her age, you can't shower her with enough love.  Just keep on loving her and disciplining her when needed.  Both my boys will be fine.  One is fully on own and doing great.  And I believe the other son will soon be doing well--he leaves the house on March 11th.  It will be a new beginning for him away from the oppressive living conditions with a BPD mom.

Well, it's another weekend--a three-day weekend... .  It is a beautiful day and my uBPD wife will most likely spend all day doing yard work.  It is her "refuge" away from any "face" time with me or anyone else.  She does a great job and our yard looks like something out of "Better Homes and Gardens."  So, I'll do what I can to help--and she doesn't mind me helping and even though there will be ZERO conversation, at least we're doing something together (kind of).  I'd rather do something other than work; but, I'll take this over nothing.

[flatspin]

You mustn't be sorry because her silent treatment hit the target but because you truly mean it. She can't distinguish both things in her mind unless you teach her to.

I didn't get the last part of this statement, "She can't distinguish both things in her mind unless you teach her to."

What both things is it that she can't distinguish.  She can't distinguish between my saying I'm sorry because she hit the target with being truly sorry?  Is that what you're saying.  If that is true, then saying "I'm sorry is pointless."  I think I'm missing something here.  Please try to explain.  I am listening and I value your advice.  I totally agree with everything you said in the first part of the post.  And it has helped me stay strong.  I have not given in/rewarded her "silent treatment."

What I am having trouble with, is reconciling the fact that at this moment, and for nearly two-weeks, she actually truly hates me.  That's hard to get my head around--especially when I have been a faithful and loving husband and have been an excellent provider.

Thanks for your input--I do hope to hear more from you.

Dear CPWUSAF33,

Oops ! I'm terribly late in my reply and I'm sorry for this. What I'm about to write now may not be useful to you anymore but may help some other people here who are right now facing the same problems. I hope that everything ended up well for you thereafter. I know how much such situations are terrible and tiresome in the long run.

What I meant is that if you ever think that you made a mistake, you will want to apologize for it, which is normal. BUT, as her thoughts are warped, if you apologize while she's serving you with a silent treatment, she will make the connection and think that the silent treatment hit the target, that it was worthwhile since it had the result expected (that is => you to give in !). That's how she can't distinguish both things.

I'll rephrase my sentence a little bit : You mustn't tell her that you're sorry because her silent treatment obliged you to but because you really mean it.

You know that you feel sorry because of what you may have done and not because her silent treatment hit the target but she doesn't.

Here is why it's important that you keep things apart the best possible, as I said => If you feel guilty, just wait for her to stop the silent treatment and talk about your feelings once the situation is back to normal. If you apologize too easily, she'll make the connection between her behaviour and your reactions... .

I hope it helps !

[flatspin]

This week I suppose things are "better"--a relative term for us "Nons."

My uBPDw is now at least speaking to me.  No real conversation of any meaning and is easily angered by the slightest flaw in the day. 

The 3-weeks plus of silent treatment was the longest yet in our 37 year marriage.  And, now the situation is surreal--I literally feel like a stranger in my own home. It seems like this time was different--she usually returns to painting me "white" after a "black" episode has finally concluded; but, this time she has become a totally different person.  She is basically numb (if you know what I mean).  She's here; but, she's not here.  It is like I'm sharing the house with a roommate that as assigned to my house.  Right now it's like we have two separate lives and live under the same roof.  It's never been that way before. 

How are things going for you pacifist mom?  I doubt you're spoiling your young child.  She needs your attention right now and at her age, you can't shower her with enough love.  Just keep on loving her and disciplining her when needed.  Both my boys will be fine.  One is fully on own and doing great.  And I believe the other son will soon be doing well--he leaves the house on March 11th.  It will be a new beginning for him away from the oppressive living conditions with a BPD mom.

Well, it's another weekend--a three-day weekend... .   It is a beautiful day and my uBPD wife will most likely spend all day doing yard work.  It is her "refuge" away from any "face" time with me or anyone else.  She does a great job and our yard looks like something out of "Better Homes and Gardens."  So, I'll do what I can to help--and she doesn't mind me helping and even though there will be ZERO conversation, at least we're doing something together (kind of).  I'd rather do something other than work; but, I'll take this over nothing.

Yes, every morning brings new challenges and we never know in the evening how long the victories of the present day will last... .

I do hope that everything is going well for you now.

Next Wednesday, it'll be three years that I married a beautiful and wonderful girl. I haven't heard the sound of her voice since 18 months and even now that we're divorced and despite what she did, I miss my wife. Maybe that's why I'm back at this forum today.

[acknowledgement]

The likelihood of her going into therapy is very small - BPDs rarely see themselves as wrong, as everyone else around them is always doing something wrong to them - their feelings define the facts. It is a lose lose situation, no matter how much you avoid JADE or try the SET conversations - they are very ill, unbalanced people who constantly have conversations inside their own head - they script everything everyone around them should do and say and they hold in their anger until the trigger explodes them into irrationality, silent treatment, splitting, black white, or disposing of you altogether if they can replace you. The important question to ask yourself is WHY WHY WHY you chose to stay in this relationship - what do you think you love about this BPD person and how long are you willing to endure their mentally ill behavior? Maybe the true wake up call for them is saying that you will be there for them if and when they go to treatment. If they chose not to go to treatment to get well, Leave them before they destroy you or replace you - the stories are all very similar and it is always the same ending with BPD.

[startrekuser]

One more thing--if she ever eventually comes out of this, she will let me have it with both barrells on what I did wrong.  What happens when she goes into this silent mode, is that she is building up more and more anger by going over and over the situation in her mind. She is basically having a conversation with herself.  So, when this ends, it will not be pretty... .  She will go into another fit of rage with absurd accusations, THAT ALSO ACTUALLLY HAVE SOME TRUTH mixed in.

Then it happens--I don't know what to say.  If I say nothing, then I am avoiding and initiating silence.  If I try to make her see the "gray" area that she is not capable of seeing, that will trigger another episode and make things worse.  If I "validate" the small part of where she was correct in the matter, that is never enough.  She wants me to fully agree and admit to her absurdity. 

It is hard to have a convesation with her of any meaning since her thoughts and outlook on things is so irrational. 

I'm trying desperately to read ahead in the book and this forum to find answers.  You're helping me Josh--thank-you.  If you can offer any more suggestions I would be grateful.

Excuse me, but are you married to my wife?  This sounds exactly like her.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

She will go into another fit of rage with absurd accusations, THAT ALSO ACTUALLLY HAVE SOME TRUTH mixed in.

Then it happens--I don't know what to say.

What I would say is "I'm not going to any more of this rage (or shouting or verbal abuse or criticism)." and then leave the conversation. (And refuse to bring up anything from a prior raging episode.)

Only address this sort of thing if she brings it up later, not in a rage.