XBPD ENABLING 15 yo son so much he is moving in with her, What do I do ?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

She bought a condo with her winnings from the D, invested the rest totaling over 400,000.00 so the interest pays for the new car etc.

I'm now in debt approximately the same amount, still driving my 99 chevy.

For the last 4 years he wanted to live with me only. I said it was not good to choose between your mom and your dad so no.

My 15 year old son who I thought knew better sold me out and moved in with her for:

24-7 internet without parental controls or anyone checking his history. She tells him she "trusts" him and that  "your dad has trust issues".

The internet is on at my house for 3 hours a day and there are parental controls.

No mowing or snow shoveling at moms condo.

I have a riding mower that he used here, it would take him 45 minutes tops.

He has a ps4 and black opps and halo over at moms, I have ps3 with no violent games.

I do have firearms and belong to the Isaac Walton League and NRA so games that kill humans, i don't see any thing good there.

He came home with 3 Ds and an F on his report card !

I told him that the natural consequences for that kind of effort when you are a grownup is that you cant afford a ipod that serfs the net.

and until the grades come up to a C the ipod is off and in my pocket.

I tell him it's my job as a parent to teach him how to do things on his own, like buying a car, so he can be a successful adult.

So with my help and he's been working the last few summers mowing and saving for a car, he had 1500. saved.

Since he "chose sides" his mom will be buying him a car instead.

He closed out his account at my credit union today to buy a new tablet.

This is the tip of a VERY large iceberg.

She's the high functioning BPD Witch, no talking to her.

Any advise?

[worthit]

She bought a condo with her winnings from the D, invested the rest totaling over 400,000.00 so the interest pays for the new car etc.

I'm now in debt approximately the same amount, still driving my 99 chevy.

For the last 4 years he wanted to live with me only. I said it was not good to choose between your mom and your dad so no.

My 15 year old son who I thought knew better sold me out and moved in with her for:

24-7 internet without parental controls or anyone checking his history. She tells him she "trusts" him and that  "your dad has trust issues".

The internet is on at my house for 3 hours a day and there are parental controls.

No mowing or snow shoveling at moms condo.

I have a riding mower that he used here, it would take him 45 minutes tops.

He has a ps4 and black opps and halo over at moms, I have ps3 with no violent games.

I do have firearms and belong to the Isaac Walton League and NRA so games that kill humans, i don't see any thing good there.

He came home with 3 Ds and an F on his report card !

I told him that the natural consequences for that kind of effort when you are a grownup is that you cant afford a ipod that serfs the net.

and until the grades come up to a C the ipod is off and in my pocket.

I tell him it's my job as a parent to teach him how to do things on his own, like buying a car, so he can be a successful adult.

So with my help and he's been working the last few summers mowing and saving for a car, he had 1500. saved.

Since he "chose sides" his mom will be buying him a car instead.

He closed out his account at my credit union today to buy a new tablet.

This is the tip of a VERY large iceberg.

She's the high functioning BPD Witch, no talking to her.

Any advise?

[NorthernGirl]

Hi worthit! I am a stepmom to 3 boys. I met my DH when these boys were teenagers and we have experienced some of what you are describing. DH's ex is UBPD and has done lots of enabling, especially with their middle son who has addiction issues.

A few comments:

* you won't be able to stop your ex from doing this.

* your son may choose to come live with you or not based on your rules and her lack of rules. He has the choice.

* if you bring the impact of the divorce into these discussions with your son or if you complain about it and it gets back to his mom, it will only make things worse.

Here is some of what we experienced:

* DH's ex moved into a condo and constantly sold the idea of "no shoveling or lawn mowing at my place". But in the end, she didn't want the kids around her all the time, so she'd convince the boys they had to spend time with us as well. They grumbled about the chores at our place, but they did them because those were the rules if they wanted to live with us.

* DH's ex was giving their middle son who has addiction issues money, phones, clothes, etc. to get him to live with her when he was 16/17. He took everything she gave. It didn't mean he loved her more or even that he liked living with her (he told us many times he hated it.) But she gave him money and the means to feed his addiction. 

* The middle SS learned that the more his mom gave, the more she expected in return. She demanded to know where her money was going, screamed when she realized he'd spent her money on booze/drugs, etc. He finally got tired of her expecting things in return for what she gave him. And she got tired of him living for free and coming home drunk/stoned. He finally left and I think they were both relieved.

* We stuck to the rules with this son even when it was very difficult. But this son has learned we are people he can trust. We are consistent. He knows he can't really count on his mom.

* My youngest SS (who has special needs) has very few rules at his mom's. He can watch TV all day, eat whatever junk food he can get his hands on, etc, etc. At first, he would talk about how much "better it is at mom's" but as he's gotten older, he doesn't say it anymore.  I think he recognizes that her lack of rules shows a lack of interest in him. He also realized when she doesn't ask him to do things, it is because she thinks he's incapable -- and he desperately wants to be independent so he didn't like that.

* The oldest SS (his mom's All Bad child) knew the options were to live with us or to live on his own. He chose to live with us for a while and when he felt he was past having to live by the rules, he moved out. The first week he had to sit with his new roommates to figure out how to divide up the chores. 

* Now that each of them are living somewhat independently we hear all the time about their challenges with roommates who don't contribute. It is funny, especially when they don't seem to realize they were trying to do the exact same thing when they lived with us! 

I suggest you:

* keep the boundaries at your house

* keep explaining why the rules are the rules to your son. Explain to your son that you want him to be independent and responsible. You want him to contribute wherever he lives.

* don't compare, comment or react to what is happening at his mom's. If she hears you're complaining, it will feed her to try to do more to get you going.

* when/if things don't seem quite so rosy for your son, don't relax the rules so he'll come back! Take him back and keep consistent on what you expect.

Your son may not understand what you are doing now, but hopefully he will get it someday. 

[worthit]

Thank you SO much for responding and taking the time to help me,

It's nice to hear that it can turn out OK.

Thank you for understanding and for the suggestions, I will carry them out.


If I were to relax the commonsense rules at my home I would be teaching him to be manipulative among other unhealthy ways to relate to others.

Living successfully daily ... . and still looking forward to that someday.

[livednlearned]

There's a really good section in the book "Raising Cain: The Emotional Life of Boys" by Dan Kindlon and Michael Thompson. If I remember correctly a teen-age son didn't want to live with his mom anymore, he wanted to stay with his dad. She struggled whether to let him go or not, and with the help of a counselor, let him go.

The son stayed with his dad for a while, and the lack of structure and selfishness took a toll, and he ended up moving back in with his mom after a year or so.

Total freedom can be an unpleasant reality for kids. Structure makes them feel safe. He may need to figure that out on his own.

The key is to let him know they're always welcome to come back and that we love them, but the rules are staying the same... .

[sydneybob1]

Worthit, it was like re-living the last five years (probably not what you intended but that's ok- my issue).

What I learned from the situation is this:

1) BPD sufferers often have no sense of morality- the end justifies the means. So trying to talk with her about the right thing to do by your children is like talking to a wall. The first response is always to refuse to discuss (or hang up on you because they know it's irritating to you).

2) I agree that you must keep your boundaries- you have to have standards of behaviour. But that makes it difficult because kids will always choose the easier path. So if your BPD ex has no boundaries or rules, that's where they will gravitate to. It's just normal kid thinking. And it's typical of you and a BPD sufferer not being on the same page. They don't want to agree with you so they will do whatever is different so as to feel that they alone are making a difference (often negative in hindsight).

3) Kids are often treated as pawns by BPD sufferers, especially in divorce- they can't feel the way that you and I can, so they don't think there are consequences for the children when in fact there can be severe psychological damage including loss of self-esteem, failure to please the BPD parent (who is very self-focused), an inability to form a close bond with the parent (who likes control rather than interaction), and in my son's case, a failure to help him with his special needs.

4) You have to learn patience- difficult for me as I had such close contact with my son. But even if he comes back, I've lost five years with him that I will never get back. And that hurts a lot and can't be compensated for.

All I can say is, I feel better that I know someone who has been through what I've been through. And that's a gain in itself.

Hang in there, worthit. You are worth it.

sydneybob1

[broken3]

Worthit,

Same here. My oldest is 17. I have texts and conversations between my ex and her that would make me sick. Literally.

"'your father is trying to destroy you, the only one you can trust is me, act this way so you can see your boyfriend, record things if your dad gets angry, do you have any bruises, you don't have to do what he says." and the list goes on and on.

All recorded and documented.

I keep a neat home but I am not a neat freak. I just like everything put away. Not on the floor, table etc.

I have rules... .

Go to school, do your homework, keep your room half-way decent, and take care of basic chores.

If you don't do that. then you don't get what you want from me.

Very simple.

My oldest has chosen to spend the last few months with her mom as she allows everything.

" mom treats me with the respect I deserve".

I say really... . respect is earned. not given.

 

[crystal]

I agree with the others... . and yes, you need to keep fair, appropriate parenting rules. And you dont want to bedn because of external pressure... . but IMHO, most 15 year olds have constant access to the internet... . I wonder if you want to reconsider that... .

I went through a similar thing-- I called it Disney Dad-- as life at his house was all fun and games, no chores, constant gifts, late nights, lots of tv. allowed to skip activities... and for  a while (age 13ish) my son was totally loving it and I was afraid I would lose him.  My T suggested to let him choose a bit, to keep my boundaries, but also to be sure I wasnt trying to make up for lost parenting (ie, dont be more strict during my time with him).  It was so hard when he was being drawn into Disney-Dad world. But of course, the facade cracked, angry unpredictable dad emerged and son realized he rather liked the predictability and rhythms in my home.

So, things swung back... . and actually now son is with me 24/7 because Dad went totally overboard as BPs often do, when son began the normal push back and questioning of authority that normal kids do. 

Best to you.  Even if your son is with mom full time, be sure to continue to invite him to do stuff with you--fun, neutral stuff you both enjoy. And show up to all his events as school or extracurriculars. 

[worthit]

Thank you all very sincerely for your personal experience responses, it's extremely helpful.

My X-BPD brought my son over this evening to get a few things from his "old room" he "needs" for their trip to New York City over spring break.

It hurts to see him continuing to leave. I did get a hug and an I love you. he does love me, i love him too.

He told me he now has two big tv's in his room at "home" one for internet and one for the game system.

His grades are up to C- C- C- B

Says he likes it there, no chores and its peaceful ... . I'm guessing it's peaceful as he never comes out of his room.

He was very involved here, we spent a lot of time together.

Hurts to loose my kid to such over indulgence. 

A mentor of mine told me to continue to do the right thing consistently so that when he's older and hopefully wiser he will look back at the errs of his parents,

and he will find one that loves him and know that one used him.

It's not hard for me to know what the right things to do as a parent that loves his son and wants whats best for him are,

It is however hard to miss out on the months as the may turn into years with my kid.

[Dutched]

Just jumped over from the Leaving Board as I has 2 kids, D22, S19 (3yrs. younger at the moment of exBPDw filed for divorce).

I have no contact with D22 since a 2 yrs and has the “temperament”/traits of exBPDw; lives with exBPDw

My S19 lives with me, stays with ex 2-3 days a week.

Most likely you/were were the ones that kept rules, boundaries but also the ones that were positioned by the (ex)partner as the bullies, as the crazy ones,  at least I was.

When ex left she desperately wanted my son to go with her, better she demanded it. He refused. Oh yeah, she tried and tried for a 1,5 yrs. Manipulated him where she could. Even to the point they (ex and son) rehearsed that he wanted to live with mom, that he had to “stand up” against me.  

In all their mess, a BPD is so predictable, so I could imagine what to face (not details, but in general the next step). So I talked and talked with him (still do every week, although he not always likes it…  those dads… ) , choose to be in a very vulnerable position and showed my grieve and determination towards him, for him and us.

I made him clear my (financial) position, and emphasized the “old”house rules. The kids always had their freedom between the boundaries made by “us”…  most dad…

As example pocket money: part is for the saving account, part for presents, the rest up to you. Don’t ask for more, don’t complain, ask for advise to manage it, a raise can be discussed with arguments.  

Still the most important part for me towards him is to validate his feelings. To be proud of every achievement, tells and show him by hugging. Ask him about his happiness as kids suffer tremendous, I ask about his grieve.

Told him and made a poem that I would be always there to help with his dreams, with his sadness, etc.

O yeah, I pushed, “kicked him up the ___” to get moving, to take his responsibility at school, for his sake, his future. Got him to the point of crying, to relieve part of his pain (I was there to hold him).

Kids are for a BPD love-objects, that’s why they buy love, enable and accept some behaviour. Kids find out soon enough I noticed, even with “normal” divorces kids will see the differences.  

In fact what I am trying to say is to grow together to a new level. Kids know who to rely on, who is the consistent parent, to whom they CAN be vulnerable, who will be there.

Be there for him, tell him. Even when he is with his mom I keep contact (Whatsapp). Let him know what you are doing, ask him about school, propose an activity together, seeing family, etc.  So try to keep the “old” house up to a certain level intact.  

[questioncentral]

What do you do? Keep being you, the you you've always been, the same parent you've always been.

Your home has changed - there's one less person in it. But you just keep on being you. Don't try to shift your core values to overcompensate for the mistakes someone else is making. Don't be someone you're not because she's enabling him. Kids are smart and they see and understand a lot more than we realize - even when we think we're sheltering them. Sooner or later your son won't be taken in by false promises, over-privileges and smoke show tactics - he'll see it for what it really is.

My exuH alienated me from two of our children (and my step-daughter) in the most extreme ways. The two that live with him are now adults - and he's kept them living with him by having no rules, no chores, no expectations; enabling them with parties, drugs, booze, concerts - a great old time.

It kills me, and it hurts but it is what it is. I didn't change - I'm still the same me I always was. I'm not a partier and the child that lives with me has rules. I'm still the same Mom I always was, I just live in a different place and look younger. When the kids that live with him need a rational voice, advice, stability, or help - they call me. There have been times they wouldn't speak to me at all - but the phone has started to ring more often. There is hope... . and they won't live with him forever.

15 is the hardest age and it can go either way - my kids were late teens when we split up. It's that pivotal age where they assert their rights and rebel - and they seem to seek out the people that are going to give them the least flack. The general rule with 15 yr olds seems to be "the harder you push, the harder they'll push back."

You won't keep him with you by altering your home or your values to keep him there, you have to show him you're the rock; and,at this point if he wants to jump sides there may not be much you can do legally (here there was nothing that I could do, anyway). All you really can do is keep being his rock of stability, his voice of reason and let him know you love him where-ever he chooses to be.

Just stay strong... . stay you; and know, as confusing as it is for you, it's 1,000 times more confusing for him.

[worthit]

Thank you so much, thats good advice, I'll take it.