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Author Topic: When his BPD/NPD charm still gets to me...  (Read 420 times)
Forward2free
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced BPD/NPD/HPDxh
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Kormilda


« on: February 11, 2014, 05:34:00 PM »

It's been almost 3 months of the new progressive overnight parenting plan and it's BPD/NPDxh's second overnight with the kids this Saturday night.

Sometimes he seems so, dare I say it, considerate, normal, helpful and caring 

He seems to be making an effort, and I have to give him kudos for turning up and only missing one visit in the last 5 years.

Sometimes I see his drama in his responses but I've learned (thanks to amazing people here) that I don't need to respond to every message and I only need to address the relevance to the kids/topic at hand. He still drives me crazy and I feel anxious with the thought of a conversation or email, but I know now that I'm in control about how and when I respond.

I hate that I can be blindsided by his sweetness and charm, even now, and yesterday a small gesture of kindness overshadowed 2 scathing prior emails which I can feel myself trying to justify. Sometimes I even feel like he is really changing and that he isn't so bad anymore... .

I would love it to be true, honestly that would be the most amazing news ever.

But then his true colours shined through. He rang me yesterday to say the passport office called him and my application for the kids was invalid because his mother had witnessed the form instead of an independent person. He rang me to tell me that he told them it wasn't his mum, just someone with the same name, and he seemed to want my praise for not holding up the passport application process. 

He LIED to the government, for me allegedly, and I just said "thanks for letting me know". I don't have it in me to tell him right from wrong anymore and if there are consequences for this, they are his to own, and I will not cover up for him. It feels refreshing not to own his stuff.

It must be so confusing to be him.
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Free One
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 03:59:05 PM »

Yes, I have moments like that with my ex as well. There are definite cycles to his behavior and it's just plain confusing to me. I never quite know what to expect from him as far as behavior and reactions.
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Forward2free
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Kormilda


« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 04:51:45 PM »

I think the cycles are why I stayed for so long. Being kept off balance and blaming me for his mood swings was a way to keep me guessing and trying harder.

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NyGirl8
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2014, 09:10:30 PM »

I can relate.  My exBPD/NPDh seems to get overly appropriate, friendly, accommodating, and helpful the longer we are apart.  The longest has been 7 months.  This IS the last time.  But, his constant searching for my approval just gets to me.  I too am in a place of not giving him any.  I am not giving him anything... . well except the anger that rolls off me in waves when he is in my presence.  I get that this probably gives him narcissistic supply anyway, but, it takes all of my willpower to not vent my anger... . which I have decided he doesn't deserve to get.  He no longer can have my thoughts or feelings.

But, I do get it, what you are saying.  When he gets to me, I come here. 

Tough stuff with kids involved which ensures contact.

ugh!

But, keep going, stay strong! Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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let-it-go

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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 10:41:52 PM »

Forward2Free... .

ugh... . that's right!  Doesn't it just make you feel crazy that their kindness and good moments can make you all but forget about the terrible ones?  For the life of me I don't know how I hear him say such horrible things to me one day and then I am friends with him the next.  I guess I do it for the kids sake and maybe it would be different if we weren't co-parenting.  But it makes me feel crazy... .
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Forward2free
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Kormilda


« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 05:31:59 PM »

I just try to "enjoy" the calm, which is inevitably, before the storm.

@NyGirl8, controlling anger is such a difficult thing to do, and yet it gives you the most peace. From personal experience, it wasn't until I learned to feel nothing in his presence, neither anger or love, that I truly started to heal. It must have driven him crazy to get nothing back from me, but being 100% in control of my responses, attitude, feelings and decisions is the most rewarding feeling. My kids feed off the examples I set them and I need to make sure that my response to anger is positive, so that they don't believe that dad's BPD/NPD way is the right way to deal with things. It's so hard, and I think it's awesome that you have decided not to vent and be in control, awesome 

@let-it-go, I'm sure it is a survival response and a way to keep being calm in the face of fear. Resilience? It can be so helpful for us and yet so harmful when we're with the wrong person. Sometimes I feel like I am being too lenient and too nice in the face of what I went through, but I know that the alternative is so much worse.

Thank God I am at a point where I know his mood, attitude and choices have absolutely nothing to do with my mood, attitude and choices. I have given up trying to analyse every moment - you can't get to the bottom of something that's so irrational.
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NyGirl8
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 06:21:32 PM »

Forward to free... . thanks so much for the support and kind words.  Ummm, I may have had a set back this past weekend.  I did give in to the anger and vent during a phone call.  I hope to be done now.  Sometimes it is overwhelming, but, you are right in that I need to keep control for my girls.  As their Mother I am their strongest role model, and keeping that in mind does help.

Thanks so much again!
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Take2
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 07:35:31 PM »

I think the cycles are why I stayed for so long. Being kept off balance and blaming me for his mood swings was a way to keep me guessing and trying harder.

Intermittent reinforcement is significantly more effective at producing the desire result that positive or negative reinforcement... . so as your ex has periods of being a nice guy, seems like he's changed, etc... . he was able to produce the desired result with you - in getting you to stay when you knew damn well that he'd just acted horribly abusive to you days before.  You wind up thinking that whatever it was you did during the "good" time frame is what may have made him happy so you do that and think it will work.  It won't of course because he has a disorder... . and sadly even with therapy, likely will never get significantly better... .    
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16YearBetrayal

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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2014, 10:43:06 PM »

I try to remember this is why I feel in love with my stbexH to begin with and maybe I am not quite so crazy after all. Of course that does not explain why I stayed with him for 16 YEARS!  I am still working on figuring that out inside me with the help of my T. 

I try to remember not to be fooled.  It sounds like many pwBPD can be incredibly charming, sweet, caring, kind, etc.  I know my stbexH is all those things and can seem like the most perfect person on earth.  But don't forget when that flip switches, that all goes out the window. At least for my stbexH, he also had the ability to be the cruelist person I have ever met and hurt me in just the most awful ways. 

Maybe try to remind yourself of the bad times to remember how he made you feel then. 

I am no expert, but from what I read here there is no way that a pwBPD would cure themselves without seeking treatment and learning coping skills.  My guess is you would know if he was seeking treatment.  If he is not, I think you can assume he is not getting better. 
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Forward2free
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Kormilda


« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2014, 06:11:57 PM »

Unfortunately BPD/Nxh has had various psychological treatment since he was 8 years old which hasn't really had the positive affect it should have.

I know that he would need to agree he needed help for anything to stick and remain with him. He is being a more attentive dad now that he ever was when I was with him and he really seems to try with the kids - this after 4.5 years of psychiatric help since our final cohabitation. I am so grateful that he can be with the children instead of absent (while present) and absent altogether.

I have been able to limit the kids exposure to him through years of court battles, and that is good. But I know it won't always be that way. It's so frustrating to know the cycle will repeat. I hope I can make the kids strong enough to deal with the unknown and to set strong boundaries too.

BPD/Nxh sends me texts with emoticons and smiley faces and it's weird. He wants to talk with me and be polite and I am more aware than ever that the next incident may not be too far away. I try to remain polite but professional and I still believe that I will be in control and therefore not anger him, which is naive at best and a wishful survival tactic at worst.

Oh how I wish it was easier.
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NyGirl8
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2014, 06:36:55 PM »

Ugh, I hear you Forward2free!  It is so hard.  My final recycle ended only three weeks ago.  I had one final vent in which I called him  "whore".  I know, I know it was awful, but I just couldn't contain my anger.  I have been low contact since.  He has gone from revenge mode, to mirroring me (no face to face conversation when exchanging the girls, all communication through text), to attempting any way he can to initiate conversation with me.  I refuse.  One word answers if my girls are present.  Most of the time I ask him to send them out, rather than even come in his proximity.  But, it really doesn't matter what I do.  I will trigger him.  So, I have decided to just take care of me right now.  And that means little to no contact.  I have primary custody so, there isn't much we need to communicate about.  I know the revenge mode will not stop though.  I let him in again, he will now use all of my vulnerabilities against me.  It is only a matter of time.  I would also say some of this IS based in anger and hurt.  Right now I do want him to hurt and I am not immune to his existence.  I am so looking forward to that.  Feeling nothing when I think of him or see him or am in his proximity.
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Forward2free
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Kormilda


« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2014, 04:55:33 PM »

I let him in again, he will now use all of my vulnerabilities against me.  It is only a matter of time.  I would also say some of this IS based in anger and hurt.  Right now I do want him to hurt and I am not immune to his existence.  I am so looking forward to that.  Feeling nothing when I think of him or see him or am in his proximity.

I'm sorry to hear that @NyGirl8. It's not natural to stop feeling and I had to work at it everyday to ensure that he didn't/doesn't see my fear/anger/hurt/love/stress etc. It's not easy. I think of it like a child seeking attention, going from loving to hateful just so that you walk out of the kitchen to tell them off. It's sad, but the adult BPD doesn't grow out of it. Any response is worthy of their time.

I'm currently being "valued" again I think. Last night BPD/Nxh called me to tell me the child support office told him his child support payments go to $0 when he has them for more than 2 nights per month. He'll have them 4 nights per month and then owes no money for raising his kids? Anyway, he doesn't think that's fair and said he'd feel more comfortable paying me something directly.

Plus, he bought the kids iPods and iPads and kept them on his iTunes account. He asked me to only download free games and to ask him if something is going to cost money. I wanted to download Minecraft for DS6 and BPD/Nxh agreed, but I had to confirm the billing info. So he sent me his credit card details. What the heck?

When DS6 called, BPD/Nxh asked to speak with me. He seems to like speaking with me directly at the moment and it's becoming frequent. 4 times in last month and less than 8 times in last 5 years in total.

Of course, I am honourable and ethical and he knows I wouldn't abuse it, but after years of him calling me black, he is trusting me? So awkward.

Do you think it's because it feels like he is in control and he likes me asking him for things?

I feel like he is setting me up to fail, and I will disappoint him without even knowing it and things will go bad.
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NyGirl8
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« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2014, 05:20:52 PM »

Oh wow.  First of all, I am not sure what state you live in... . but two nights a month does not constitute 50/50.  My ex has visitation.  With our schedule he has the girls at least 6 overnights per month.  He pays child support.  He also pays a percentage (almost half because our incomes are pretty equal) of daycare costs and out of pocket expenses.  The child support comes right out of his check and is deposited into my account by the state.  The rest I present him with a paid receipt and the order says he has 5 days to pay me.  I wouldn't take his word on the child support issue.

I suppose I am more worried about what his contact does to you?  Is it threatening to you, bring your defenses down?  Does it jeopardize your healing and emotional health?  I can't speak to his motives, plus a BPD's motives will change with the wind, no matter what they began as... .

Not sure if that helps... . Good luck!
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Forward2free
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Kormilda


« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2014, 08:09:46 PM »

I'm in Australia and I think most ex partners pay up to 60% of their salary to support their kids. Luckily for me, I married a sneaky, lying, cheating man who has somehow found a loophole to pay the absolute minimum ($30 per child per month) IN TOTAL. Now even that will be taken away, and I'm certainly not afraid of losing it. I have managed until now and I figure at least for 4 nights a month he now has to buy them dinner. I don't believe his offer will last and I'm sure he'll find an excuse to wheedle out of it.

When I read back that he's talked to me 4 times this month, it doesn't sound bad. It's funny that on the surface, it would sound like I should be glad that he is being thoughtful and polite. It makes my skin crawl and I have to have a few deep breaths before I take his calls or see him in person. I still cringe when I see his number and there is still a PTSD reaction that I haven't been able to lose yet. I'd like to believe that there is nothing sinister in the call, but I feel like there is a target on me and he's somehow, taking aim again.

I see it more as a smiling crocodile - thanks Peter Pan, this makes so much sense now... .

Never smile at a crocodile

No, you can't get friendly with a crocodile

Don't be taken in by his welcome grin

He's imagining how well you'd fit within his skin

Never smile at a crocodile

Never dip your hat and stop to talk awhile

Never run, walk away, say good-night, not good-day

Clear the aisle but never smile at Mister Crocodile

You may very well be well bred

Lots ot etiquette in your head

But there's always some special case, time or place

To forget etiquette

For instance:

Never smile at a crocodile

No, you can't get friendly with a crocodile

Don't be taken in by his welcome grin

He's imagining how well you'd fit within his skin

Never smile at a crocodile

Never dip your hat and stop to talk awhile

Never run, walk away, say good-night, not good-day

Clear the aisle but never smile at Mister Crocodile

Read more: Peterpan - Never Smile At A Crocodile Lyrics | MetroLyrics 
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NyGirl8
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2014, 08:25:27 PM »

$30 dollars per child, per month?  Outrageous!  My ex took me to court for custody, because he was the "better parent"... . translation: he didn't want to pay child support.  Well, he left the court room with an order not to drink when he had visitation and good talking to about how he addressed me in court.  He was his own lawyer so he was able to question me.  The stress of it all broke down his typical charming ways and the judge saw about 40% of his mean streak.  That was enough.  I received primary custody and he gets visitation.

I would go with your gut!  The PTSD reaction that I have when I am anywhere near him has me at minimal to no contact.  I communicate only through text or e-mail.  No speaking when the children are exchanged.  He keeps trying to engage me.  If I must, I give him a one word answer.  I know I am triggering him, but, I have to think of my own health right now.  I have nothing left to give him, not an ounce... . not even to avoid triggering him.  If I open my mouth I will rage and spew and that is not fair to the children.  He is in his Dad of the year mode... . one day they will need to come to their own conclusion about him, and they will.  They will Love him anyway, as they should, but I will not push them one way or the other.

Anyway, Love the Peter Pan :-)  Good Luck!
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