validating Alienation, CD, and stockholm syndrome

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I know what we endured.

after 10 years of jurrassic park, woven in with so much LOve !

we split.

coming here is the only place I can get consistent validation.

even then its a long story to get validation for my actual level of location isolation

there ARE few people, few friends NO family, no T, UBPDx is a public figure in tiny town... . basically everyone's charming doctor. So I am on my own with YOU.

so I am still in extreme isolation.

Even though I am almost 3 years from the break up and NC/LC

It is like I am still in stockholm syndrome by proxy.

certainly still abuse by email and d11 alienation abuse.

the town is THAT small. It feels like he manages to infiltrate every aspect of my life here and I still cannot get away.

the stress is not the same as living with him, but almost as bad, cause he took our child to 50/50 , whom I was homeschooling by putting her in school, lost my role , and my authority with additional intentional alienation.

Everyone except the rarest couple people I know (my roommate) all support BPDX .

If I dare breathe anything of the truth to or in the vicinity of d11, I am being punished for alienating him? by BPDx sending emails threatening to  to further alienate d11 from me.

To support D11, validate her truth. (we are both fight or flight at times again with the alienation)

Her "truth" is complete denial "BPDdad is wonderful and you are overreacting, mom", and thats what I am supposed to do? VAlidate d11

the cognitive dissonance is thick.

how to do whats right by her and get validation for my reality.

how to get the balance

I need to not bleed my pain from this onto my kid?

[nona]

I know what we endured.

after 10 years of jurrassic park, woven in with so much LOve !

we split.

coming here is the only place I can get consistent validation.

even then its a long story to get validation for my actual level of location isolation

there ARE few people, few friends NO family, no T, UBPDx is a public figure in tiny town... . basically everyone's charming doctor. So I am on my own with YOU.

so I am still in extreme isolation.

Even though I am almost 3 years from the break up and NC/LC

It is like I am still in stockholm syndrome by proxy.

certainly still abuse by email and d11 alienation abuse.

the town is THAT small. It feels like he manages to infiltrate every aspect of my life here and I still cannot get away.

the stress is not the same as living with him, but almost as bad, cause he took our child to 50/50 , whom I was homeschooling by putting her in school, lost my role , and my authority with additional intentional alienation.

Everyone except the rarest couple people I know (my roommate) all support BPDX .

If I dare breathe anything of the truth to or in the vicinity of d11, I am being punished for alienating him? by BPDx sending emails threatening to  to further alienate d11 from me.

To support D11, validate her truth. (we are both fight or flight at times again with the alienation)

Her "truth" is complete denial "BPDdad is wonderful and you are overreacting, mom", and thats what I am supposed to do? VAlidate d11

the cognitive dissonance is thick.

how to do whats right by her and get validation for my reality.

how to get the balance

I need to not bleed my pain from this onto my kid?

[nona]

 

[elemental]

I've been over on the staying board. I have been what you are going through.

I have a couple of situations in my life, so I was addressing what I have felt I could actually effect.

I have a son who will soon be 21 years old.

I went through a marriage that as time went on, I became alienated from almost everyone around me. My ex husband made it clear I was not welcome among our friends ( no one likes you zencat, you offend everyone, I am embarressed to go anywhere with you.) I will probably touch on this at a later date in another part of the site.

When I wanted a divorce, my ex husband annhilated my life. He deliberately played dirty to ruin my credit, my business, I lost the friends he knew, his family attacked me, I became a total pariah as I was accused of child abuse, domestic violence, various mental illnesses, sexual abuse of my child, demonic possession. Yes. Demonic possession. People were shouting at me in stores, children at my son's school were calling me crazy. Zencat was unwelcome everywhere.

I ended up withdrawing from everything. I didn't bother to deny anything to friends. I was dragged into court over and over by my ex husband for about 2 years. Fortunately for me, the judge in our case didn't believe the accusations.

I raised my son and stayed in a town where I was ostrasized by the people I had known for 15 years. I gave it up and ended up in a state of simple survival. Later my ex told me the attempt to ruin my life and push me into suicide had been deliberate. He was in a remorseful state, but I later understood the "remorse" was just him manipulating me into feeling obligated to him so he could try and  get money from me.

I thought I had escaped it eventually. But last summer I realized the smear campaign had been going on behind my back to my son for years. My son tried to protect me. My ex had become an alcoholic and my son bore some of the brunt of that. He confronted his father over and over ( I only learned this later) and demanded accounting for what had been done.

My ex, an extraordinarily convincing persona, managed to turn it all around to my son, and the child I raised, gave everything for, withstood vile accusations, I so wanted him to have a stable life... . well he has turned against me and tells me everything his dad says is true ( including the demon part) and he no longer has a mother. I watch him via facebook and he has lost so much weight.  I worry for him, I am sad for the broken relationship.

In the end I can tell you something very important: Build a support structure. Go outside of your town to do it. Do it online, meet as many people as you can. If you believe in god, find a good supportive church. Reach out anywhere you can. You will NEED the support.

As for your daughter, YOU are the parent. Of course you don't spill on  her, or tear her father down to her.

You home schooled? You have a lot of psychological distance to cross. There are people out there. Look for them to help.

I know if I had done this, my life and my son's life would have been hugely better. It may have made the difference between him being here now or him being gone now.

I really really miss him.

[Soulsisters]

Every time I see a see a story so close to my own it makes me feel like crying.  Crying because what they have done to us is so damn sad, And crying because I am not the only one.

The fact that they can use our children against us is the worst form of abuse there is.  Both to our kids and to us.  Everyone keeps telling me that they will come back, that my teenage sons will see the light and realize that I am not the devil.  Every day they don't come back they go further away.  I will never stop fighting for them, but it is so very hard.

I agree that leaving town is so important for everyone.  There is no way that I can go back to my old small town because he has painted such a terrible picture of me to everyone.  He has taken everything from me so he can look good.  But even with all of this heartache, I feel better.  I am so thankful every single day to not have to wake up next to that monster.  I am healing. 

I can't give up hope on my kids.   none of us ever should.  Eventually they will come back to us.  We must be the strongest creatures in the world to be able to put up with this amount of hurt every single day.  It is such a raw hot pain that will not ease up.

I will pray for all of us. 

[kyoko]

I am so sorry and sad to hear all of your stories.  I am in a situation where I feel so afraid I might lose my d8 because of the constant PA she hears from her dad.  Unfortunately, the court decided ex gets our girls 4 consecutive nights every other week even though the mediator saw first hand what ex was like and recommended ex get only one over night every other weekend until he attends coparenting classes then he will get an extra night during the week.

My  d8 has become extremely disrespectful and repeats everything her dad says about me when she is having a tantrum over me asking her to get ready for bed, brush teeth-basic stuff  (on drugs, crazy, out of your mind, paranoid, ruining the family, not christian, not forgiving, taking all of daddy's money,ect ect)  These tantrums are almost an everyday thing that can last for hours (also mimicking her dad's tantrums/rages?)  She has also has told me many times she wants to go live with her dad.  Also has said that when she is 13yrs her dad says she can make her own decision and live with him because right now I live with you mostly, that's fair isn't mommy? (exact same words that came from her dad).  Now, her dad can walk on water.  However, d8 seems to forget that just 5-6months ago when we were living at home she wouldn't even go downstairs without me if her dad was home because she/we didn't know what mood he would be in. 

Are these behaviors (I described only some) something that I should be worried about? 

It's so scary to think that your children could turn against you. Im so sorry for those who have lost contact with their children.  It must be so difficult.  I hope and pray for you that they will see the truth.

[bravhart1]

Very sad to read what you are all going through. I forget sometimes that this is happening to thousands of us out there. Some days it feels like my own special hell.

Thanks to everyone out there that spend the time to put it down here so we don't feel so alone.

I am praying that we all get a little relief this year. And don't forget that hope isn't a four letter word.

Forgiveness= giving up hope for a better past.

[nona]

wow... . giving up hope for a better past

Gotta let THAT one sink in.

OMg I was so depressed as noone answered me here for awhile !

It is so validating for you to reply, and I am so sad and want to give you hope too !

D11 is with me now, and will wake any moment.

All I know Is I hold my ground of who I am and let nothing come in the way of the flow of love to and with my child.

I lost so MUCH of myself to him, and FEAR .

I had been running on fear so many years, it was blocking the love I had inside, i was frozen in flight or flihght chemical.

I am embarrassed it has been 3 years LC , and I am still not free.

But I am convinced I am basically healing myself of stiockholm syndrom, by myself, with the miniscule support I can scratch together at any minute. and it is taking a long time. but I am not really awy. im still a hostage AS LONG AS I STILL REACT TO A PSYCHOPATH  WITH FEAR.

and the psychopath is actively, successfully alienating, 1/2 time.

d11 is sending me e-mails expressing her important feeling, "it must be fair between parents".

1) this is not realistic, life is not fair.

2) the court ordered ROFR to me, which UBPDX ignores and states "d11 will choose access" in emails.

part of me wants to find a sympathetic lawyer. (I have not met one yet)

try setting a little contempt boundary and see if he will straightenup.

But if he wont straighten, he will turn the screws tighter on d11 against me and GOD only knows what else.


3) alienation research says "HOLD ONTO THE LOVE RELATIONSHIP, DO NOT INVALIDATE ALIENATED KID, HOLD REALITY AND GROUNDING LOVE AND TRUE POSITIVE MEMORIES"

(when all our protective instinctive boundaries scream "RUN", and want to protect our child from this monster, but any words against her father will be construed as ALIENATION against HIM?)

4) research on children of joint custody documents common need for child to be equal for parents.

this appears to be d11's strongest need. it protects me as well as her dad, except that I'm not using active alienation during the equal time she spends with me.

this morning I m back in the pattern of nausea at the thought of opening my emails cause he will probably be there with more antagonistic BS.

I wish He would find another co-dependant to dance with.

not our daughter.

I will be thinking of you

heal the ptsd and brain chemistry... . Im convinced this is where I am finding my healing , and getting out of isolation.

hugs

[worthit]

I wish He would find another co-dependant to dance with.

not our daughter.


Amen to that,

And i wish my UdBPDx could find another target .

It's like they can act ok to others as long as they have a target to use as a dumpster.

I came here in 2008 divorced in 2010 she been suing me over several issues and she's still suing me, this time it's for school lunch.

I pay my share 600. and change for school lunch per year. it's just not in the decree. she want's it added.

It's now in front of the Iowa supreme court. we may well make case law.

I wish everyone could see her for the evil she is.

Do they ever move on?

[worthit]

I wish He would find another co-dependant to dance with.

not our daughter.


Amen to that,

And i wish my UdBPDx could find another target .

It's like they can act ok to others as long as they have a target to use as a dumpster.

I came here in 2008 divorced in 2010 she been suing me over several issues and she's still suing me, this time it's for school lunch.

I pay my share 600. and change for school lunch per year. it's just not in the decree. she want's it added.

It's now in front of the Iowa supreme court. we may well make case law.

I wish everyone could see her for the evil she is.

Do they ever move on?

[ennie]

Wow, sounds like such a hard situation for you; and how hard for your child to have only dad's version of things validated in the community. 

As to the validation question regarding your child, we really work on this with my two SDs, ages 9 and 13.  SD 13 particularly is horribly enmeshed with mom, and paints her in the rosiest of tones, constantly bringing up dishonest reports particularly when mom is doing the opposite. 

When SD13 is upset with DH and/or me, she tells us she does not want to live with us, only with mom. 

DH and I address this differently. 

But the common theme is that we really try to empathize with what the kids are experiencing, to understand that what they are doing is a "normal" response to an abnormal situation.  This helps with being able to validate the real core of their feelings, rather than validating the fake story they have invented to protect mom. 

For me, this is easier because it is not within my power to make custody choices, so when SD13 says, "I want to live with my mom!" I can say, "that is not something I have any choice over, but it is really normal for a 13 year old to want to live somewhere else; it is like you are getting ready for the time when you will be on your own.  Do you want to hear where I wanted to live when I was 13?" 

For DH, it is harder as it pushes his buttons and makes him feel like a bad father, particularly when unknowing others say, "why don't you let her live with her mom?"

But his answer is basically to explain that at 13, she does not have the legal choice where to live, and as a dad, he has to be responsible and do what he feels is right.  But at the same time, he understands how hard it is to be a kid and disagree with your parent and not have the power to make your own choice about where to live. 

So both of us try to combine our sense of what the real boundaries are (from the perspective that boundaries are only things that we can do, not rules that others have to follow) and to validate what seems the real issue for each child, without discussing mom at all. 

What I think the "real" issues are and what I validate are:

--How hard it is to be a child and not have power to choose with whom you live (in truth, I think SD13 feels particularly powerless with mom, whom she cannot even separate at all without severe consequences, but it is frustrating to be under the thumb of reasonable parents as well). 

--How hard it is to feel really angry at parents and the fact that it gets worse when everyone gets angry at you for how you feel.

--How hard it is to be patient, and wait until you have a choice. 

--How hard it is to deal with all the stuff that is needed to be able to live on your own, how hard it is to plan, etc. 

--Often, the real issue has nothing to do with wanting to live at moms, or other alienation--SD13 uses that a lot to push our buttons when we are saying "no" to something. Really the only time SD13 says to me "you are not my parent!" is when I am letting her know that I am not going to help or give her something she wants from me unless she does something (usually, better behavior, helping, etc.).  It is ironic, as these are the times I am NOT being parental, but wanting to not overextend myself without some trade or negotiation.  At those times, I think it is REALLY important to validate the right issue... . "I bet you are really angry that I told you I would not drive you to your friend's house until you put back the art supplies you borrowed from me.  I would be angry, too.  But it would not feel good to me, and would make me not want to loan you stuff, if I did not take care of myself by asking for my things to be cared for first.  I think you are saying that I am not your parent because you are angry at me, and you think that I will not ask you to put away my art supplies you say this to me, but if you want to talk about my role and if you want changes in our relationship, I am happy to do this when you are not so upset with me.  It is fine to be upset, take all the time you need to deal with those feelings, and when the supplies are picked up I am happy to take you." 

Usually this is not all said at once.

Also, when the kids say false things about mom to make her look better, it is important to me not to validate something I know is false.  Instead, I say something like, "you really love your mom, and it sounds like you really want me to see her the way you do, and love her the way you do." 

I think the point is that even when that BPD person is so horribly challenging for us (and for you, in a small town, this is all the more so), it is important to validate the child for doing her best in a hard situation, and for the hard feelings that come out of that.  Even when these feelings are displaced, having someone to tell them to releases some of the pressure, and reframing things to help the child get more in touch with her feelings can really help with communication and self-awareness over the years.  If the issue is not whether dad is bad or good but that the child is angry, or loving, or sad, it allows room for a kid to have a sense of self.  That is what is so hard with a BPD parent, to develop your own feelings.  So your willingness to validate is important to your child even being aware of feelings, rather than just blame and story. 

Good luck!