Can't co-parent with the lies/false accusations against me

[mywifecrazy]

My uBPDxw is making it impossible to Co-Parent effectively for my sons (14&9) we'll being. Anyone else have a similar situation or some advice.

I was married for 18yrs and had 2 beautiful kids with my uBPDxw. Our marriage wasn't perfect ( nobodies is). I thought everything was OK until Father's Day 2013. I caught her in bed with a family best friend and neighbor across the street. I found out other things through stories she was telling everyone about me. She told people I was beating on her, beating on our kids and that I raped her. I also found out that she was very promiscuous throughout our 18yr marriage (God was I in the FOG). I finally realized after our breakup that she is u BPD. She has most of the signs.

Fast Fwd 9 months later. She has abandoned me and the kids (she only wanted custody every other weekend). My sons are very hurt because they know that she would rather be with the neighbor across the street than be with them. She even has the GALL to stay at the neighbors across the street for days at a time in full view of our kids. My kids had to tell her how it hurts them to see their Mom across the street with a man they don't like. She has even told my older son that she never wanted to have son #2 but that I manipulated her into having him. Can you imagine telling that to a 14 yr old boy about his brother. Time and time again she has hurt my sons feelings by not taking me up on the extra time with the kids that I offered her. She has also broke off all ties with her family (mother, sister, brother) so It's up to me to make sure our sons have a relationship with their Grandmom and aunts and uncles.

Can someone tell me how you can possible Co-Parent with a person that is so selfish and unstable. And how do you work with someone who has accused you of rape, spousal abuse and child abuse? How do you co-parent with someone who is in bed with someone you despise... . Across the FREAKING street. Now I'm living in dread as her lease on apartment 20mins away is up next month and I know she is going to move in across the street. My boys don't want to be around this man.

Sometimes I wish she would have ran off to never be seen again. It's much better for a child to have (1) healthy parent than (1) healthy and (1)nut case.

I guess I will continue to be thankful that I have primary custody. I shutter to think what it would be like if I only had kids every other weekend like most Dads. It's just so dam stressful with all the drama she creates being right across the FREAKING street. All I want to do is protect my kids!

[Eodmava]

Dear mywifecrazy,

I am so sorry to hear about what you and the boys are going through.  Stay strong in the spirit brother.  I think it is very difficult, even when you are exposed to it over and over again, to process the amount of narcissistic entitlement that accompanies this disorder.  My wife never went to the same extremes, but be grateful to have her out of your life.  Is there any chance you could move?  I also think you should talk to a lawyer about getting her deposed as part of a civil suit on defamation of character.  The deposition could come in handy - especially if you have it recorded.  My wife started with a major distortion campaign about 5 years ago... . she worked tirelessly to make all of our family friends believe "I" was the narcissistic abuser.  This is simply transference from her childhood abuser and projection of her own garbage onto you. 

I was running at the gym this morning and looking around the gym I found myself wondering how many BPD's were there working out with me.  It is really a form of PTSD.  Get yourself and your sons into counseling as soon as you can. 

Read Ephesians 6:10 and stand strong in your truth.  Remember that it was only because you were a good man that she was able to treat you like she did and is.

God Bless,

mava

[Matt]

Sounds like at least three really big issues - "co-parenting", false accusations, and being with that other guy... .

First, "co-parenting":

I would suggest that you completely give up the idea of "co-parenting".  (I know this board is called "co-parenting" but I think that's a bad term to use under the circumstances.)  "Co-parenting" usually means that you make decisions together.  I would not try to do that with someone who has made such serious accusations and behaved in ways that are so damaging to you and the kids.

Some people talk about "parallel parenting", which means you make the decisions when they're with you, and she makes the decisions when they're with her.  That's closer.

I think in terms of "parenting" - not "co-" or "parallel", just parenting.  It's my job to understand what each kid needs at each time, and to provide it the best I can.  If their mom helps in some ways, great, but I don't assume that.  I don't split up the work with her - "You handle those issues and I'll handle these." - I take responsibility for meeting all my kids' needs, and when I see that their mom has something covered, I move on to other stuff, but never assuming anything about what she might do tomorrow.

If you look at it that way, the only things that remain are the schedule - which parent they are with when - and other big issues like major medical problems and which school they go to.  Courts sometimes insist that both parents be involved in those decisions, and you can do that by e-mail.  I would certainly urge you never to talk with her directly, face-to-face or phone, without a non-family adult third party present.  So you're nowhere near to "co-parenting" or making many decisions together - more like a business negotiation over a few issues the courts insist you make together.  A few times a year max.  (The exception might be small changes to the schedule which could come up more often.  Handle those with very brief e-mails.)

Which brings us to false accusations... .

These are very common.  I was accused of assault and arrested;  if the officers had believed what my wife said I would have been charged with attempted murder.  Many others here have been accused of all sorts of stuff.

If she makes any false accusations in court papers or other public places, you can check out your state's laws - where I live it is a crime to make a false criminal accusation, and you can probably file civil or criminal charges.  I would encourage you to find out all your legal options and take the strongest action you think is sensible.

If it's all verbal, she might still be subject to a civil suit.

If you know who she is telling this stuff, I think the best thing to do is to let them know - raise the subject just one time - "I know that Mrs. Crazy is making some serious accusations against me.  I want you to know that I have not done the things she says - ever.  If she says that stuff in court she will be held accountable for it.  I just want you to know the truth."  Then let it go.  They will believe what they want to believe.  You will probably lose some friends because of this, but you have to let everyone make their own choices - you can't back them into a corner and insist they believe you - it won't work.  You can just put the truth out there and let them accept it or not.

On the legal side of things, there is a very powerful tactic that I and others here have used:  Depositions.  Talk to your attorney and find out if that might be an option.  You put her under oath and ask her detailed questions about her accusations, and get her answers on record - court reporter or audio tape.  Then find proof she is lying.  If the divorce goes to trial you can introduce your proof, and show that she lied under oath, and she is in serious trouble.  Her lawyer will see what you are doing and will talk her into backing down so she won't be proved to have lied under oath.

Finally, about the other guy... .

This is a problem for you and for the kids.  For you, the best thing is to let it go - be glad she has a new victim.  I know that's easier to say than to do, but it's what will work - acceptance.

For the kids, it's different - they are being put through complex stress over this stuff and just telling them to accept it won't work.  I would suggest you talk to the counselor at their school, and ask her to recommend a counselor in private practice, and take them once a week for now, so they will have someone to talk to about this.  It's not a quick fix - commit to it for the long haul, so they develop a strong, lasting relationship with the counselor.  It will be her job to get them to talk about stuff - how their mom has acted, the other guy, etc. - and to help them process it and understand it.  You're too close to the situation to do that for them.

Using the school counselor to get a reference will avoid the accusation that you found a counselor who will take "your side".

[mywifecrazy]

Sounds like at least three really big issues - "co-parenting", false accusations, and being with that other guy... .

Matt, thank you for the sincere and well thought out response to my post. That's why finding this website was such a blessing for me,  relating with people who have been through the same type of experience I have and are able to share their experiences to help others like myself.

COPARENTING: I have never heard of that phrase parallel parenting but I agree with that 100%. I am lucky too because I have primary custody and my ex only gets the boys every other weekend. I am the one raising them and i am their major influence in their life and I believe for my faith that this was meant to be. My uBPDxw only brings up coparenting when she's feeling guilty for all the horrible things she's putting my boys through and I call her on the carpet for it. Any other time she could care less all she worries about is her new victim. Yes I have gone no contact with her as much as I can. All my communication is through emails so I have it documented. I have even stopped letting her come to my house to pick the boys up so there's no chance of her being alone with me we make the drop off at a public place. It's ironic that you mentioned school counselor as I just came home from visiting with my older son's guidance counselor and his major teachers at school. I will take your advice and talk to the guidance counselor about a recommendation for a good family counselor.

FALSE ACCUSATIONS: My uBPDxw used the false accusations against me just to manipulate her new relationship (victim) into feeling sorry for her so he could be her new rescuer. I do take her accusation seriously but I do know that she only uses them as her tool to get her next victim. She did this to me 20 years ago unfortunately I was in the fog until recently. I don't worry about the false accusations anymore but this is why I do not want to be near her without other people present just in case!

NEW R/S(other guy): i'm beyond this hurting me personally. As a matter of fact I've come to be appreciative of him taken her off my hands and getting me off of the BPD CRAZY TRAIN. it took a while for my head to stop spending once I got off the train but now that I am out of the FOG. My only concern about her new r/s (victim) is that he's right across the street, is an ex family best friend and it hurts my boys severely to see that their mother is right across the street and the fact that she'd rather be with him that around her own kids that's really hard to take that's when I stop feeling sorry for her pathetic ass and I get mad because she's hurting my sons.

Again thank you so much for your reply. Gave me a lot to think about and it is comforting coming from someone who's been through it too. I hope you have a great day Matt!

[Matt]

For whatever it's worth, my kids - now 15 and 17, more than 7 years after we separated - are both doing great.

I took them to a counselor (recommended by the school counselor) for a couple of years, and that helped.  Mostly I've kept my distance from their mom, and worked with the kids, not so much with their mom. 

They both struggled in some ways at first, and there are still issues - when they spend time with her things often go wrong and they have to deal with it, and it can be confusing.  But they're doing very well in school, they have friends and activities, and they're mostly happy and very unique individuals - not just reflections of either parent.

I think it's even possible that they are stronger in some ways because of having to deal with difficulty when they were young.

My view is, it's a big challenge for us to "parent" and not "co-parent" - we have to step up more - but it pays off and the kids can do very well.

[Scared73]

I apologize and admit I didn't read any of the responses you have already received.  Apologies in advance if I say something that's already been said. 

It's amazing the things these "people" are capable of doing.  I use quotations because they aren't people, they're just an ambulatory disease (I understand this isn't a disease but for practical purposes, it's the easiest word to use).  My ex did many of the same types of things you describe and that we have all been through.  I honestly don't know what is worse, a BPD not wanting contact or a BPD that wants contact.  Because I can tell you from this side of the fence, a BPD mom that wants contact is so damaging.  My ex did the same thing to my daughter from a prior relationship when we split in terms of just saying things to hurt my daughter.  Not having her in my daughter's life was and is hard for my daughter but ultimately, she is much better off. 

Recently I began dating again and that has sent my ex over a cliff.  She's now taken things to a level I didn't think she would in that she is hurting our shared kids.  To protect myself, I have told her I will video record every interaction with her because she has, more times than I can count, made false accusations after exchanging the kids.  Our kids are 2 and 4 and she is using them, hurting them intentionally, to try and hurt me.  What's so disappointing is the lack of education on the part of the court system and their intervention to help the kids.  There is a presumption of guilt on dad's the second you enter a courtroom.

I don't know how to deal with it and wish I could offer advice.  I can only offer support.  I've tried everything that's been suggested by books, doctors, name it.  Nothing works.  So now I am just hoping to provoke her into doing something to me, again.  At this point I feel it's my only hope.  Take a punch, kick, whatever for the kids, hopefully it'll be recorded, and then go to court for a restraining order.  I suppose a restraining order is an option for you.  Given the verbal abuse of you and your children, you might have success in seeking a restraining order that would keep her from being able to move in across the street.

In the meantime, I find that just coming here from time to time and reading about others and their stories reminds me I'm not the only one. There is some solace in that.  Not much, but some... .   Best of luck.

[woodsposse]

Can someone tell me how you can possible Co-Parent with a person that is so selfish and unstable. And how do you work with someone who has accused you of rape, spousal abuse and child abuse?

Are you sure you didn't marry my ex wife (both of them)?

I have been accused of all of that.  I raped both of them, I abused my children... I neglected my childen, I abused her... . you name it - I did it.  Mind you I know I didn't do it (because I was there), but that doesn't seem to matter.

With my  first wife (bioMom)... . when we first split she had custody and made damn sure I knew about it.  She even went as far as to move and not let me know where she or my children were for over a year.  But somehow I'm suppose to be okay with this.  Anyway, fast forward to me being settled and working a good job in my new place... . she wants me to take custody of the kids when I pick them up for Christmas break.  I say sure... . go pick them up... . pack up their stuff in the car and bring them to my new home.

But we still had an open custody case going on... . so a few months later she has her lawyers tell the courts I kidnapped the kids and didn't bring them back after Christmas break.  I effin flipped!  They wanted me arrested, and pay googobs of fines until the kids were returned... . the works.

I kept my cool and pointed out one simple fact.  If I kidnapped them - how did I have their school records and unenroll them from school to enroll them in school at my place?

They eventually withdrew that complaint.

From that point on - I wish I could say it was smooth sailing, but it wasn't.

So to answer your question "how do you co-parent" in this situation... . YOU DON'T.  You can't.

I had to fully put the best interst of my children forefront in my mind and be ready to withstand the onslaught of crap I was about to get for trying to keep my kids safe.  I blanketed myself in the law.  I barricaded myself behind the letter of the law - and what was rightfully mine to do... . and kept her in her place.

If she wanted to act up or act out - took it up with the courts.

If she didn't talk to the children for a year and then pops up and want to chat... . she had to go through me. If she didn't like that - take me to court. I'll explain it to the judge what has been happening and I'm positive no judge in their right mind would find me at fault.

I worked very very hard to make sure that she couldn't bring her brand of crazy into my new home and affect the children and there would be written documentation every step of the way.

After 10 years of not seeing the children - and they are finally adults and on their own - she can then see them whenever she wants (which isn't that much).  They don't want to have anything to do with her and they know it wasn't me who did this.  That's a good thing.

(what I didn't realize is that I was now living with the same type of woman... . and the same type of drama was playing out right under my nose and I couldn't see it until it was too late.  But that is a different story - and we don't have bio-kids together so there is no other connetion there so it is easier to walk away).

I'm sorry... . there isn't anyway to co-parent in this situation.  if you try - you will be F'ed... . and it won't be pretty.

[woodsposse]

  So now I am just hoping to provoke her into doing something to me, again.  At this point I feel it's my only hope.  Take a punch, kick, whatever for the kids, hopefully it'll be recorded, and then go to court for a restraining order. 

Oh please give up on that idea.  That is a bad idea.

The key word here is to provoke her into doing something.  Trust me - that too will come back and bite you on your backside so fast you won't know what hit you.

Unfortunately I have learned with these people that you have to have extra extra clean hands.  Even the hint of something being a little out of whack is all they need to pounce on it and make up whatever they want to get whatever they want. And we both know... . they want everything... . and nothing... . right now!

Stay smart.  Stay safe.  Stay away as far as you can.

[Matt]

Yeah, any conflict puts you at high risk, even if you haven't done anything wrong - even if there was no physical contact at all - you will be considered guilty til proven innocent.

Many of us here (including myself) have experienced this.  In my state, the police are required to make an arrest whenever there is an accusation of domestic violence, including a threat.

To make that clear, if a woman calls 911 - as my wife did - and says "My husband hurt me." or "My husband threatened me." - that call is recorded, and is considered "probable cause".  The police are required to go there, and arrest the person who was accused of violence or a threat, even if there is no evidence - even if there is evidence proving he didn't hurt her or threaten her.

Two officers came to my house and interviewed both of us, and the kids, and found some physical evidence.  All the evidence supported what I said happened, and proved beyond doubt that my wife had lied.  And her story changed - she told one story to one of the officers and a different story to the other officer.  Their report, issued a few weeks later, proved beyond any doubt that she had lied, and the charges against me were dropped.

But that night they were required to arrest me, because her 911 call was considered "probably cause" (which is baloney but how they do things).  So I spent the night in jail, and was charged with assault.  That arrest record can be seen online by anybody, including any potential employer, and it can never be purged or sealed - ever.  Plus $5,000 in legal costs and a whole lot of stress.

A strategy to provoke someone into conflict - and especially for a man to provoke the woman - is not a good strategy.

If there is even a small risk that she might accuse you of violence or of threatening her, the best strategy is to make sure you are never - ever - in the same place as her, without a non-family adult third party present every moment.

[bravhart1]

How do you get around it if the BPD mom won't do an exchange if a third party is present?

Ours will scope out from a far and then refuse the exchange and leave with SD5. Leaving us with no child and a unreasonable disordered person on the other end (with the child) screaming that you brought a "third party" to set her up? 

Have had to bring police into it from there, but then BPD mom tells SD5 that police are there because we want her arrested and want to take her away.

[woodsposse]

How do you get around it if the BPD mom won't do an exchange if a third party is present?

Ours will scope out from a far and then refuse the exchange and leave with SD5. Leaving us with no child and a unreasonable disordered person on the other end (with the child) screaming that you brought a "third party" to set her up? 

Have had to bring police into it from there, but then BPD mom tells SD5 that police are there because we want her arrested and want to take her away.

Go to court.  Have the law on your side.  If the exchange is part of the custody order - it is an order of the court.  if she doesn't comply... . or makes it difficult - document and present in court to have the order changed.

It doesn't matter what she says, how she views the action, what she calls you or how she perceives anything.  if it is in writing from the court - have her read the court order. If she doesn't want to read the court order - take her back to court and have the judge read it to her.

I know it isn't right what she tells the kid.  Hopefully, with luck, your child will get to a point where they understand what actually happened. Keep in mind this is no longer between you and her.  It is between you... . the court... . and her. If she has a problem with you - have her take it to the court.  You have a problem with her... . take it to the court.  Try and limit what is put on the child and you may just get to their 18th birthday with some hair left on your head.

[Matt]

Find a good counselor for SD5, and take him regularly.  It's a marathon not a sprint - he'll benefit from having a safe place to talk for the next 10 years or so.

I did that - didn't consult my kids' mom.  They were 8 and 10 at the time.  I talked to their school counselor who referred me to a counselor in private practice.

Later, during the legal process, my wife's lawyer tried to make an issue of it.  I just told the truth:  I was concerned about how the divorce and their mom's behavior might affect them, so I got a referral from the school counselor (so I couldn't be accused of shopping for someone who would take "my side" and took the kids to see her weekly for a while, then less often.  The judge listened to the other side complain, then said I should continue taking them to that counselor, and their mom should pay part of the cost.

The key is to do what is best for the child, and trust to the court not to punish you for that.

[mywifecrazy]

Find a good counselor for SD5, and take him regularly.  It's a marathon not a sprint - he'll benefit from having a safe place to talk for the next 10 years or so.

I did that - didn't consult my kids' mom.  They were 8 and 10 at the time.  I talked to their school counselor who referred me to a counselor in private practice.

Later, during the legal process, my wife's lawyer tried to make an issue of it.  I just told the truth:  I was concerned about how the divorce and their mom's behavior might affect them, so I got a referral from the school counselor (so I couldn't be accused of shopping for someone who would take "my side" and took the kids to see her weekly for a while, then less often.  The judge listened to the other side complain, then said I should continue taking them to that counselor, and their mom should pay part of the cost.

The key is to do what is best for the child, and trust to the court not to punish you for that.

Matt, God your posts on this subject are very helpful!

My son (14) has finally come around to accepting the idea of seeing a counselor. I took your advice and got recommendations from school guidance counselor. I asked him if he wanted his mother to be involved in his counseling. He said no because she is the reason why he needs counseling. I also asked him if he wanted her to know that he's in counseling, again he said no.

I was wondering if I have to inform her that he's in counseling and if I didn't let her known could it be used against me. Then I saw your post! I actually want to tell her to get her to pay some of the costs but My son nor I want her in the counseling. I have primary Physical custody but we share (50/50) legal custody.

Every time my son tries to talk to his mom about how she's hurting him she starts to cry and tells him SHES hurting to get him to feel sorry for her. Her standard manipulation ploy!

Thanks again Matt.

PS did your X end up paying part of the counseling bills?

[Matt]

PS did your X end up paying part of the counseling bills?

A little at first, but then she quit paying, and I didn't do anything about it.  Not worth fighting over.

[ForeverDad]

We separated back in 2005 when I called finally 911, police came, didn't cart me away probably because my preschooler refused to leave my arms, later police heard the recording of the incident before|during|after that call when I made a report, she was arrested for threat of DV but months later was acquitted because judge said it wasn't an 'imminent' death threat without a weapon in hand.

So she immediately tried to make me look worse than her.  As soon as she got out she went to family court and filed for protection from me for herself and our preschooler.  It was ex parte (emergency one party) action and when I finally got to appear, CPS had already investigated me and stood up and said "no concerns" about me.  (No comment about her, I guess CPS took the letter of the law and only looked at me since it was ex's complaint.  Later when I filed a reciprocal action against her, with her then having temp custody, CPS never appeared.)

Unknown to me at the time, she had also sought other "negative advocates" (phrase used by Bill Eddy) with the local child therapy quasi-county agency.  I've seen the intake form, I was listed as a suspected child abuser, I'd have to look again since it might have listed '***ual'.  Since she had temp custody, they believed her lock, stock and barrel.  However, I meanwhile had typical father alternate weekends and an evening in between, something not done with alleged child abusers.  Three months later, with all the cases still pending and the temp order still in effect, the insurance company sent me a Notice of Recertification.  First I heard of it.   So I contacted the agency and met with two persons, I think the counselor and the manager.  Ouch, they were cold and treated me like a non-person, refused to share any information, were not interested in any information from me, had no questions for me, but did say I could file for his records.  So, I did that and promptly got back a form letter stating ":)enied" because I was likely to be a danger to the health or life of the client or others.

That was also when both our TPO cases in family court were dismissed and then her DV case was about to be dismissed too.  So I filed for divorce.  By the time the case came up for temp orders (again) she had blocked all father-son contact for 3 months.  Magistrate even questioned her to confirm that and just said "I'll fix that" and reinstituted the prior order, order not modified, no make up time for me, no blocking consequences for her.

#1 - At a later hearing I asked for therapy access, magistrate told me the order gave me statutory rights for records.  I tried again and was sent a photocopy of the prior 'You are a Danger' response.

#2 - Next time in court I stated it didn't work, magistrate looked at ex and got her to agree to sign any papers necessary to grant permission for me to see son's records.  She agreed.  Still no change with the agency.  In fact when I got a report from the court investigator recommending I move up to equal time I tried again.  At some point about this time the block morphed into ex's HIPAA privacy claims.

#3 - My lawyer reluctantly (and after I paid $$$) filed a motion for the court to order the release of my son's records.  He protested to me they'd all be blacked out and mostly redacted.  But magistrate signed and within a couple days I got some 200 pages of therapy notes and other records, nothing was blacked out.  It was a sheer BlameFest.  No wonder ex fought so hard to keep them hidden.

A few months later I was 'allowed' to bring son to sessions, the agency said they had to wait until she gave permission since she was temp custodial parent.  Hmm, I don't think she ever did, more likely it was the expert Custody Evaluator contacting them or his insightful initial report that had just been sent to the court that did it.

So son had regular sessions through the rest of the divorce and during 3 years of Shared Parenting until I got custody (2011).  Soon thereafter ex stopped confirming sessions on her parenting time and a few months after that son 'graduated' with therapist's smiles.

That was our background.  A year or so later I consulted a private counselor and she spoke with both myself and son.  Said things were mostly fine in the initial visit.  As we were leaving I asked if she wanted my ex to bring son and almost grimacing she said, "Oh, no!"

Skip forward to the last few months.  Court awarded me majority time during the school year and said mother could keep equal time during the summers if she (1) stopped disparaging father and (2) went to counseling with son.  (Despite not having incomes submitted, the decision reasoned that mother might not have insurance - Hello! ACA! - and wanted her to benefit from son's session.) Well, guess what, this different therapist at the agency said the court didn't know what the therapist did and adults aren't part of child therapy!  So I told her I'd leave all that - notification or involvement - in T's hands.

In summary, as it might apply to your situation, the other parent doesn't have to be involved in therapy - might not even be advisable - and if your child doesn't want the other parent notified then likely you can let that go too, for now.  Of course, if ex isn't notified, for now, then getting reimbursement from ex could be impractical.

[bravhart1]

Forever Dad,

How were you (if you were) able to to get mom to "quit disparaging you to child"?

This seems to be a sore topic. We haven't been able to get her to stop. It's in court order. Therapist agrees she still does it. What will they do to her if she won't stop?

[ForeverDad]

Deep down I think they don't really expect her to change but they posture as though if by pointing the way then she will change.  Eight years and still the same, what basis to believe she'd change now?

The latest order was issued at the end of 2013, declared a final order in mid-January.  In late February *someone* filed a complaint with CPS about a child neglect allegation.  Of course CPS won't divulge the identity of the complainant, but son volunteered that only Ex knew about the issue, he hadn't even told me.

So within 2 months of the decision someone, who else but her, complained to CPS.  Yes, she was only trying to make me look as bad or worse than her, but she's done that in the past whenever she raged and realized she looked bad.  (Back in 2007 she raged at the pediatrician's staff and they "withdrew services".  Within a week she had our kindergarten-age son in a hospital emergency room claiming I had raged and beaten son.  In her mind she had to do damage control and concoct a way to make me look worse than her.)

How were you (if you were) able to to get mom to "quit disparaging you to child"?

Well, the way the court knew was that I played tapes of exchange attempts over the phone.  Apparently her lawyer advised her mid-case to stop talking to me, she's avoided all voice contact since late August.  So now she calls son but will only text me.

Result:  I have no way to know whether she has "quit disparaging my to child", she just stopped letting me know.

Court's solution is to adjust parenting every few years, baby steps.  She got temp custody in 30 minutes.  The next 8 years were spent correcting that.  Clearly, court does not see this as requiring supervision, so it's hard to see what else mother can lose.

2005 - mother gets temp custody in brief hearing.

2008 - mother's time reduced - Shared Parenting, equal time in Final Decree settlement

2011 - mother's custody reduced - father gets custody in GAL's settlement

2013 - mother's time reduced - father gets majority time during school year in court decision

Mother has "one more try" to keep equal time in summer but to contest that would probably take another 1.5 years in court for minimal changes, just not worth the price.  She is what she is.

[Matt]

So one strategy is to try to change the other parent's behavior - get her to quit disparaging the other parent, or better yet get her to accept that she has a psychological disorder and needs therapy.

Another strategy - the one more likely to be successful in my view - is to focus on the child's needs.  Get the child into counseling, long-term - not to "fix" a "problem" with him, because the child may not have a problem, but to help the child with skills for dealing with the disordered parent.

Thinking of my own situation, and FD's, and every other member here who has a similar situation, I don't remember a single one who had success with the first strategy.  But lots of us have had success with the second strategy.

[ennie]

I agree with matt on this last point.  What DH and I have found effective (I am stepmom to two girls, SD9 and 13 and have been in their lives the past 7 years) is 1) getting a good parenting plan with clear boundaries around practical things; 2) having the kids in counseling; 3) focusing on our home and our family rather than on trying to change mom.  We also moved, as mom would come to our home to drop of the kids and act crazy and violent--different than your situation, but it was really important to me to have distance so that we were not constantly triggered by her. 

To get the plan we have, we had to deal with custody litigation, which basically makes everyone act a little more like a BPD person, as an adversarial legal system requires some measure of blame.  During that time, the fact that DH and I were (albeit in a far more compassionate and non black and white way) acting more like mom by putting in writing all the bad things mom was doing was so hard for the kids.  Mom blames as a matter of course, and comes up with horrible stories about how bad dad is that are mostly not true; but we tend not to focus on blame, but on loving the kids.  I cannot imagine how hard that would be with living next door!

Here we are 7 years later, and this approach has been really good.  The kids really love their dad and say so, and we are less and less emotionally entangled with mom's crazy ups and downs.  They still happen, but we just treat them like the weather.  The more they impact us, the more we take special time with the kids, treat ourselves to more fun excursions and projects, and we started "special person night," which is when everyone focuses on what they love about one family member. 

The kids now deal with their hard feelings about stuff by saying "I feel angry," rather than acting like mom.  So I think this has worked. 

Good luck with all of this.  You can create a life for your kids that is separate from your ex's crazy choices, and show them what it is like to be loved no matter what, and what family looks like without blame, and with accountability from a loving place.  Kids choose what feels the best in the long run, most of the time, and the power you have to help them feel loved is to love them; that is the best you can do.  They are so lucky to have you.

[mywifecrazy]

Dear mywifecrazy,

Stay strong in the spirit brother. 

I was running at the gym this morning and looking around the gym I found myself wondering how many BPD's were there working out with me.  It is really a form of PTSD.  Get yourself and your sons into counseling as soon as you can. 

Read Ephesians 6:10 and stand strong in your truth.  Remember that it was only because you were a good man that she was able to treat you like she did and is.

God Bless,

mava

Staying strong in the spirit Mava. It is my faith that is seeing me through!

I hear ya about thinking every woman might be pwBPD. I was on a dating site and

In all my correspondences I'm looking at the profile pics thinking "OK this chick looks a little whacky in the eyes she might be BPD. It really does mess with ya after you get out of the FOG!

Thanks for the good man compliment. The further away from the FOG I get the more I realize that it's her issue and I'm OK. God will see me through and he can turn my greatest pains into my greatest blessings if I keep focused on him. God bless you brother!

[ForeverDad]

This seems to be a sore topic. We haven't been able to get her to stop. It's in court order. Therapist agrees she still does it. What will they do to her if she won't stop?

Courts do have authority and leverage you don't have.  Consequences if an order is ineffective... .

• Contempt of Court findings could result in fines and/or jail time.  However, few judges want to put a mother in jail so often those words on paper are just bluffing and bluster.



• Reductions in mother's custodial authority and parenting time.

I know it's a short list, but there aren't many options available if the problem parent simply refuses to cooperate and continues obstructing and sabotaging.  Courts know that in divorce the emotions and sensitivities are running high, but most people do eventually accept the new reality and settle down.  Courts expect their orders to eventually work in nearly all cases.  Your challenge is to convince the court that the efforts thus far to get mother to cooperate haven't worked, that this is one of those times where gentle guidance won't work and it's time to accept that gentle suggestions, proddings and even basic orders are not enough.

My Custody Evaluator, a child psychologist, wrote a concise and practical custody evaluation report.  After briefly reviewing both parents' history and perceptions, the conclusion was that (1) mother cannot share 'her' child but father can, (2) mother should immediately lose temporary custody and (3) if the parents try Shared Parenting and it fails then father should have custody.

So my suggestion is... . you ought to follow a strategy to convince the judge that no one, not even the court nor those the court has appointed, has been able to substantively improve mother's willingness to parent and co-parent adequately and therefore mother's custodial authority, if any, and mother's parenting time should be limited to a sufficient extent so that father can have an ability to parent without negative impact from mother, whatever that reduction may require.

I had some settlements along the way in my case and those settlements had a side effect to hide some of ex's misbehaviors from the court since settlements don't contain WHY the settlement was reached.  However, each time we went to court those 1-2 year cases each resulted in mother walking out with less authority, less custody or less parenting time.  I call them baby steps since it shouldn't have taken so long to get a decent order but the fact is it did get better over time.  The downside is that from the time we started, son was nearly 4 years old, and ended, son was nearly 12 years old.

[Waddams]

For the OP - well it sounds to me like you're not really co-parenting at all.  She's not parenting at all, and doesn't want to be a parent.  Hence her behavior.  I'd say your situation is closer to you're a single parent on your own, and there's no co-parenting, or even parallel parenting that can happen.  It's not ideal for the boys, but depending on how to choose your outlook, it can have it's perks.

Do you have your own T?  I'd recommend it.  These situations are hard, and the emotions we have wrapped up in everything make it even harder.  However, there's a T out there that has seen similar cases and knows what can work best and what doesn't for you and your children as for dealing with it, and that T would love to advise you.  It's just a matter of finding them.

Next, I'd forget about any parenting with her.  Just parent.  Make your decisions, and move on.  Inform uBPDxw when you have to of various things.  Even to the point of not reminding about weekend visits, etc.  If she's living that close in an apartment, I'd say it's better for the boys to be at their home every night anyway.  I bet it won't be long before she becomes more like a visiting aunt instead of mom, and while sad, given the circumstances, probably for the best for them right now.  Maybe she can get herself in T and clean herself up at some point, but for now, overall distance is probably better for them with their mom.  Just go low contact with her, let her reach out as she wants, let go of her and all her drama, move on to living your life to the fullest and be the best dad you can be.  Set that example of looking forward and making the best of yourself for your boys, instead of staying stuck in the drama.  It really sounds to me like it's time to move on.

As for false accusations, etc., that will work itself out with time.  The clearest indicator of future behavior is past behavior.  Let her make her accusations, develop your own life, and ignore her.  She's abandoned you and the kids, you've already got primary custody, there's not really anything else meaningful you can get in court (unless she becomes dangerous to the boys and you have to get supervised visits).  Eventually, people see through the lies anyway.  Until then, stay away from those that she convinces, and go build your own life.  So again, go focus on building a better life for you and forget about her.  Keep low contact, keep your distance, don't give her any opportunities where she could make up a lie to authorities (ie - don't be alone with her, don't go in her house, don't let her in, etc.).  In addition to protecting you legally, it also reinforces the separateness and distance you want to create between you and her. 

If there ever is an incident, don't call the cops, just exit the situation as quick as possible without touching her, even if it means she gives you a few lumps.  With involvement of cops, they'll look for physical evidence.  If you're marked and she's not, it's pretty obvious what happened.  Search for "primary aggressor" on this site and on google and read up on how cops determine that.  There's some caveats to it that usually lead to the man being tagged with it and arrested, and that's by statute.  It's basically the one that exerts the most force, not the one that starts it.  Since men are stronger, they always exert the most force, even when defending themselves against an attack by a woman.  Not saying the law is right, but that's how it's written, and as men we need to understand it so we can avoid it's pitfalls.  And like others on here, I'm speaking as man that didn't understand how it worked until it was too late and I was sitting in a jail cell saying to myself "I really need to make a change to my life!"

As for your boys, getting into T would be good.  And again, getting yourself into T as well.  A good T can not only help you process this and deal with it, but also guide you how to best guide your boys through it all.  My S9's T that I took him to for a few years used to have 1 on 1 sessions w/ me occasionally and give me pointers for dealing with things at home.  I think that was bigger for S9 that I had better insights than the actual therapy itself.  Afterall, he saw the T an hour a week or every other week, he saw me a lot more.

So to sum up, it all comes down to focus on you, your kids, and stop focusing on her.  Just let go of her.  Stop even parallel parenting, just do your own thing, and build a new and better life for you and your kids.  Put boundaries in place to protect yourself from false allegations, and otherwise stop worry about what she does or doesn't do.

[Matt]

Yeah, the whole idea of "co-parenting" or "parallel parenting" doesn't make sense when the other party isn't rational.  As Waddams says, best to just think of "parenting" - you parent the kids and if the other party does something helpful at times, great, or if she does something that makes your job harder, you deal with that too.  But consider yourself the kids' parent and do that job - figure out each kid's needs at each moment and provide for those needs the best you can.  Nothing "co-" or "parallel" about it.

With involvement of cops, they'll look for physical evidence.  If you're marked and she's not, it's pretty obvious what happened.  Search for "primary aggressor" on this site and on google and read up on how cops determine that.  There's some caveats to it that usually lead to the man being tagged with it and arrested, and that's by statute.  It's basically the one that exerts the most force, not the one that starts it.  Since men are stronger, they always exert the most force, even when defending themselves against an attack by a woman.  Not saying the law is right, but that's how it's written, and as men we need to understand it so we can avoid it's pitfalls.  And like others on here, I'm speaking as man that didn't understand how it worked until it was too late and I was sitting in a jail cell saying to myself "I really need to make a change to my life!"

I wish it worked that way where I live!  But unfortunately it doesn't... .

About 20 states interpret the federal "Violence Against Women Act" to require that when a woman accuses a man of domestic violence, the man must be considered guilty til proven innocent, and must be arrested and charged with DV.

I learned about this the hard way:  My wife assaulted me - swung my guitar at me, but didn't connect - and tore up all my sheet music.  Then she called 911 and said "My husband threw me down the stairs."  If her accusation had been true, I would have been guilty of at least assault and battery, probably attempted murder.

The officers who came to the house were very calm and professional, and they gathered evidence by talking to both of us separately, talking to the kids, and finding physical evidence like the shredded sheet music.  Their report, which was finished a few weeks later, proved beyond any doubt that my wife had lied;  the officers knew that night that she was lying.

But that night they arrested me anyway, and charged me with assault.  They explained to me that "We're not the judges, we just follow our procedures and then the judge decides what to do."  Like Waddams and many others here, I spent that night in jail, and it was there that I decided maybe the relationship wasn't working out.

When I finally got a copy of their report and showed it to the judge, she dropped all the charges against me.

The reason it works like that in my state and many others is that the VAWA contains a section which those states interpret to mean they must assume that any accusation that a woman makes against a man, that he did something violent or that he threatened her, is true, until a judge decides otherwise.  In my case, the officers both knew she was lying - she had told one story to one officer, and a different one to the other officer, and both her stories were at odds with what the kids said and with the physical evidence they found.  But their procedure, based on my state's interpretation of the VAWA, required them to assume my wife's accusation was true, no matter what the evidence showed, and arrest me and charge me with DV.

By the way, I'm not saying that is what the VAWA actually says, or whether my state's interpretation of it is correct.  Doesn't matter - that's how things work in my state and about 20 others.  For us, the lesson to be learned is that if your state has similar procedures, and a woman makes an accusation, you will go to jail, you will be charged with a crime, and that charge will probably be visible online to anyone with a computer - doesn't require special access.  You'll need to retain a criminal defense attorney - mine cost $5,000 - who will advise you to never again be alone with that woman without a non-family adult third party present.

Just a word to the wise - I wish it always worked as Waddams described it - the police looking at evidence and making a sensible judgement about what probably happened - but that's not how it works in some states.

[mywifecrazy]

For the OP - well it sounds to me like you're not really co-parenting at all.  She's not parenting at all, and doesn't want to be a parent.  Hence her behavior. 

Just go low contact with her, let her reach out as she wants, let go of her and all her drama, move on to living your life to the fullest and be the best dad you can be.  Set that example of looking forward and making the best of yourself for your boys, instead of staying stuck in the drama.  It really sounds to me like it's time to move on.

She's abandoned you and the kids, you've already got primary custody, there's not really anything else meaningful you can get in court (unless she becomes dangerous to the boys and you have to get supervised visits).  Eventually, people see through the lies anyway.  Until then, stay away from those that she convinces, and go build your own life.  So again, go focus on building a better life for you and forget about her.  Keep low contact, keep your distance, don't give her any opportunities where she could make up a lie to authorities (ie - don't be alone with her, don't go in her house, don't let her in, etc.).

So to sum up, it all comes down to focus on you, your kids, and stop focusing on her.  Just let go of her.  Stop even parallel parenting, just do your own thing, and build a new and better life for you and your kids.

Thanks for your response. I'm already at the point where I'm already implementing the ideas you listed here.  The last thing is getting therapy going But that too is about to start in a matter of days.

Thanks again for sharing with me as it's nice to hear from people on these boards that are in similar situations. IT IS TIME TO LET GO AND MOVE ON! I count myself BLESSED to have primary custody as so many on here do not. God Bless you all for your responses to my post... .

[mywifecrazy]

I broke my NC boundary and had let my uBPDxw stop out to my house twice last weekend. I had to listen to her WHINE about herself even to the point of her CROCODILE tear routine designed to make me fell SORRY for her. Of course I found out from her sister that she's still telling lies about me to her family. She is still showing up across the street carrying on her r/s with my neighbor in full view of me and our sons.

I learned my lesson it's back to NC all communication will be e-mail. There is just NO WAY to co-parent with this person. Thank God I have primary custody! My older son starts seeing a family counselor next week. Thank God for that too!

[Matt]

Yeah, I think "co-parenting" or even "parallel" parenting requires some level of psychological health in both parents.  Best to focus on parenting and let go of the "co-".