Throwing insults in front of the child

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello,

I posted here a year or so ago and wasn't sure if the relationship would finish or limp on. It finished. Now, we have to parent together, somehow. I'm male, the child's mother lives a couple of miles away, on the edge of the city I live central to. I visit twice a week for a few hours each time, I've made myself be content with this because the boy is so little, he's now 16 months old. His mum seems to try to make my visits uncomfortable; she's openly told me she doesn't like me in her place, but she won't let me take the boy away, even for an hour. I even had to fight to be able to feed him lunch when I'm there; more recently she's simply stopped talking to me at all.

In fact, this new phase began a few weeks ago and it now includes abuse and insults. It began like this:

She's about to study a course and reluctantly asked me to look after the boy each day from breakfast till dinner. I got the impression that she'd already asked someone who'd said no, and I was very much her choice of last resort. At the very least, she knows I won't say no ... I might be many things, but an absent father is not one of them.

So, she asked me to and I said I would and it wasn't till a week later that I asked her for details of exactly what dates and times I would need to pick him up and bring him back, so that I could plan my work schedule (I'm self-employed and I more or less get to set my own hours and authorise my own time off, thankfully) I also said I could give her a lift her to the venue when we (I and the boy) drove back home. And she kind of went, 'No, woah! You're looking after him here ... you're not taking him anywhere... . '

To which I said, no - of course if I'm looking after him all day then I'm taking him to my house (she's been there, and she's met my flatmate / landlady - who is a mature lady with a grown-up daughter of her own) ... I want to go out with him, have some of my friends meet him (his mum never lets me take him anywhere and most people i know have never met my son), I want to go out and do things with him, the zoo, the park, up the hill, his cousin's coming to visit ... normal parent stuff.

She completely lost it, started insulting me, shaming me for anything and everything she decided I've ever done (whether I have or not), telling me everything i did was bad, I'm a liar, she hates me and wishes I would just f--- off, why can't i leave her alone, she hates the fact I'm going to be ''showing off my child you have no right to show off'', she thinks he's going to choke on food or freeze to death or fall down the stairs or get a parasite or food poisoning... .

it went on for at least 20 mins ... and in front of the child too (though at the moment he's too young to really understand, I can see he's beginning to feel something when this happens, he did look worried)

Today she was telling me she's going to give me a bag each day and he mustn't eat anything but what she's given me, and his clothes mustn't get dirty muddy. I said, I'll be getting him some clothes and the ones she gives me will stay clean. I didn't say anything about the food because I may give him what she gives me and I may give him something else that I make, and I wasn't prepared to have a massive argument about it. She told me, ''I hate you so much'' as she was holding him (breastfeeding him in fact) and he was looking right at me.

I know I'm bursting her control bubble. I'm not even ashamed to be doing so.

And the baby's week with me begins tomorrow, and tonight seemed like a good moment to ''file this report'' so to speak ... because, frankly, I'm terrified. I used to feel confident looking after a child, I even worked in a kindergarten at one time, looking after seven kids this age! But she's been going on now so long, undermining and belittling me and telling me what I must do and what I'm not to do and telling me I'm hit and laughing when I try to talk seriously about 'my role as a father' (yes, she just laughs) ... that now, my heart is in my mouth.

Actually, it will be fine. I've got a lot of support lined up this week from friends and family. That helps. And the boy himself thinks I'm awesome. That's what keeps me going.

This is going to continue, and there's nothing I can do about it. I will not stop seeing my son, and till she lets me take him away for my time with him, I have to keep going to her house. I'm actually lucky in a way - she wanted to make me see him in a contact centre. I declined that one.

I'm hoping that when this week goes well, and he comes home happy and tired every day, I can use it as a springboard to ask her to let me have him at my house for a day or two, instead of going to visit him at hers.

I don't know how she will respond / react when I do ask this. I'm a little bit scared, but my little boy keeps me focussed and keeps me strong ... because it's all for him, in the end.

Anyway, I wanted to open a thread here, because this isn't going to get better and I've got a feeling I might need some encouragement ... if she is going to do more often what she has started to do, namely - insult and belittle me in front of my son.

That's all. Good to be back ... well, it would be but... .

Thanks for reading.

- CM

[CM]

Hello,

I posted here a year or so ago and wasn't sure if the relationship would finish or limp on. It finished. Now, we have to parent together, somehow. I'm male, the child's mother lives a couple of miles away, on the edge of the city I live central to. I visit twice a week for a few hours each time, I've made myself be content with this because the boy is so little, he's now 16 months old. His mum seems to try to make my visits uncomfortable; she's openly told me she doesn't like me in her place, but she won't let me take the boy away, even for an hour. I even had to fight to be able to feed him lunch when I'm there; more recently she's simply stopped talking to me at all.

In fact, this new phase began a few weeks ago and it now includes abuse and insults. It began like this:

She's about to study a course and reluctantly asked me to look after the boy each day from breakfast till dinner. I got the impression that she'd already asked someone who'd said no, and I was very much her choice of last resort. At the very least, she knows I won't say no ... I might be many things, but an absent father is not one of them.

So, she asked me to and I said I would and it wasn't till a week later that I asked her for details of exactly what dates and times I would need to pick him up and bring him back, so that I could plan my work schedule (I'm self-employed and I more or less get to set my own hours and authorise my own time off, thankfully) I also said I could give her a lift her to the venue when we (I and the boy) drove back home. And she kind of went, 'No, woah! You're looking after him here ... you're not taking him anywhere... . '

To which I said, no - of course if I'm looking after him all day then I'm taking him to my house (she's been there, and she's met my flatmate / landlady - who is a mature lady with a grown-up daughter of her own) ... I want to go out with him, have some of my friends meet him (his mum never lets me take him anywhere and most people i know have never met my son), I want to go out and do things with him, the zoo, the park, up the hill, his cousin's coming to visit ... normal parent stuff.

She completely lost it, started insulting me, shaming me for anything and everything she decided I've ever done (whether I have or not), telling me everything i did was bad, I'm a liar, she hates me and wishes I would just f--- off, why can't i leave her alone, she hates the fact I'm going to be ''showing off my child you have no right to show off'', she thinks he's going to choke on food or freeze to death or fall down the stairs or get a parasite or food poisoning... .

it went on for at least 20 mins ... and in front of the child too (though at the moment he's too young to really understand, I can see he's beginning to feel something when this happens, he did look worried)

Today she was telling me she's going to give me a bag each day and he mustn't eat anything but what she's given me, and his clothes mustn't get dirty muddy. I said, I'll be getting him some clothes and the ones she gives me will stay clean. I didn't say anything about the food because I may give him what she gives me and I may give him something else that I make, and I wasn't prepared to have a massive argument about it. She told me, ''I hate you so much'' as she was holding him (breastfeeding him in fact) and he was looking right at me.

I know I'm bursting her control bubble. I'm not even ashamed to be doing so.

And the baby's week with me begins tomorrow, and tonight seemed like a good moment to ''file this report'' so to speak ... because, frankly, I'm terrified. I used to feel confident looking after a child, I even worked in a kindergarten at one time, looking after seven kids this age! But she's been going on now so long, undermining and belittling me and telling me what I must do and what I'm not to do and telling me I'm hit and laughing when I try to talk seriously about 'my role as a father' (yes, she just laughs) ... that now, my heart is in my mouth.

Actually, it will be fine. I've got a lot of support lined up this week from friends and family. That helps. And the boy himself thinks I'm awesome. That's what keeps me going.

This is going to continue, and there's nothing I can do about it. I will not stop seeing my son, and till she lets me take him away for my time with him, I have to keep going to her house. I'm actually lucky in a way - she wanted to make me see him in a contact centre. I declined that one.

I'm hoping that when this week goes well, and he comes home happy and tired every day, I can use it as a springboard to ask her to let me have him at my house for a day or two, instead of going to visit him at hers.

I don't know how she will respond / react when I do ask this. I'm a little bit scared, but my little boy keeps me focussed and keeps me strong ... because it's all for him, in the end.

Anyway, I wanted to open a thread here, because this isn't going to get better and I've got a feeling I might need some encouragement ... if she is going to do more often what she has started to do, namely - insult and belittle me in front of my son.

That's all. Good to be back ... well, it would be but... .

Thanks for reading.

- CM

[mywifecrazy]

Just curious. Why does she get to call all the shots on where you get to see your son? Is there a custody agreement in place? You have rights as a father! Even if you only have partial custody you shouldn't have to listen to her demands. when your son is with you YOU are in charge as the legal guardian during your time.

Its sad to here her USING your child like this. I feel like I'm in LIMBO with my uBPDxw because we have kids together even though I have primary custody. Her actions are so hurtful to my sons. I've read in other threads about FEELING SORRY for pwBPD. NOT when they hurt their own kids. sorry my sympathy ends there!

Good luck to you brother. Be the BEST Dad you can be. Your sons life is depending on it. God Bless You and your boy!

[CM]

Thankyou for the reply. I know I'm not alone in this struggle and though that doesn't make it easier, it at least means I know there are people who understand.

Actually there is no custody agreement, at the moment I just do what she lets me do. I really don't know where to go from here, actually. I'm hoping after this week goes well I can broach the subject of having a couple of full days with my son, rather than the short visits I do just now.

I'm not sure what kind of a reaction this will get, either, and to be fair I'm a bit scared of what it might be. But I have to try and move something forward, because the baby isn't going to stay a baby for ever.

[mywifecrazy]

I would highly recommend you get in touch with an attorney so you know what your legal rights are. Also it's important to get in touch with Attorney so you don't do anything in the present that may hurt you in future proceedings and custody battle. Good luck to you brother I feel for you! You are not alone! Just remember keep your focus on you and your child.

[Deep Impact]

Thankyou for the reply. I know I'm not alone in this struggle and though that doesn't make it easier, it at least means I know there are people who understand.

Actually there is no custody agreement, at the moment I just do what she lets me do. I really don't know where to go from here, actually. I'm hoping after this week goes well I can broach the subject of having a couple of full days with my son, rather than the short visits I do just now.

I'm not sure what kind of a reaction this will get, either, and to be fair I'm a bit scared of what it might be. But I have to try and move something forward, because the baby isn't going to stay a baby for ever.

I haven't seen my son in 2 years and have never spent any time alone with him - he is 4.

I have no police records or anything and have basically rolled like you, just giving the Mum free reign.

I told her one day I want to see my son away from her, she said if I take her to court she'll ruin my life.

So, I gave up, don't be weak like me, you still have hope my friend.

[mywifecrazy]

Thankyou for the reply. I know I'm not alone in this struggle and though that doesn't make it easier, it at least means I know there are people who understand.

Actually there is no custody agreement, at the moment I just do what she lets me do. I really don't know where to go from here, actually. I'm hoping after this week goes well I can broach the subject of having a couple of full days with my son, rather than the short visits I do just now.

I'm not sure what kind of a reaction this will get, either, and to be fair I'm a bit scared of what it might be. But I have to try and move something forward, because the baby isn't going to stay a baby for ever.

I haven't seen my son in 2 years and have never spent any time alone with him - he is 4.

I have no police records or anything and have basically rolled like you, just giving the Mum free reign.

I told her one day I want to see my son away from her, she said if I take her to court she'll ruin my life.

So, I gave up, don't be weak like me, you still have hope my friend.

Listen to him CM or you'll be on here in a few years with a similar post!

Deep Impact, So sorry to hear how your Fatherhood was ripped away from you by such a selfish terrible act. Hang in there brother!

[CM]

I haven't seen my son in 2 years and have never spent any time alone with him - he is 4.

I have no police records or anything and have basically rolled like you, just giving the Mum free reign.

I told her one day I want to see my son away from her, she said if I take her to court she'll ruin my life.

So, I gave up, don't be weak like me, you still have hope my friend.

That's awful, I'm very sorry to hear it.

My week has finished and I thought I'd check in here as I haven't had the headspace all week ... an amazing week, and exhausting.

Actually, it went really well. I have a feeling she expected me to completely fail - at least, she said a few things beforehand that gave me that impression; she seemed to think he would freeze, have an accident, get ill, or a parasite or something, choke on some food and arrive back to her in a right mess.

He didn't. He arrived home every evening happy, healthy, tired, and in absolutely the same perfect condition as she handed him to me in the morning. I believe, if there was a test I would ace it. I'm quite proud of myself, I'm very impressed and proud of the little boy, who had a wonderful week and was delightful.

So this might be confusing her right now. But what I'm now moving for is to take care of him all day on the two days I have been visiting him at her place. It seems to me impossible to go back to two 3-hour visits per week, limited to his mum's flat (90% in just her living room, in fact)

I'm suggesting I have him all day on those two days. And if not those two days then another two days which she can choose.

I'm waiting to hear what she thinks of this suggestion (actually at the moment I've just suggested I start this Thursday on my next regular visit. I would visit tomorrow but she asked for a ''day off'' (her words) and I agreed because I want her not to be angry with me when I'm asking to have him twice a week.

So I'll wait to see what she says. But I guess if there was ever a time this situation might become serious (read: legal) then this is it.

[CM]

I still haven't had a reply. My first message, sent Sunday evening just after I took him home was: Could I have him all day on Thursday, say 9am-6pm?

36 hours later and no reply to that, so I sent a second message: Is there any reason why he can't spend Thursday with me?

Still waiting to hear back.

[CM]

So now she's saying I can only see him on Saturdays (because she wants to work on Saturdays), I've explained I could share Saturdays with her but not take him every one because Saturday is one of my busiest work days (and always has been since I've known her, so this is something she's already aware of)

I've agreed to every other Saturday, as long as it comes with every Thursday and Monday (or two other days of her choosing) but she's not budging. I'm trying to arrange some mediation and I'm hoping she doesn't make this go all the way to court.

[Deep Impact]

So now she's saying I can only see him on Saturdays (because she wants to work on Saturdays), I've explained I could share Saturdays with her but not take him every one because Saturday is one of my busiest work days (and always has been since I've known her, so this is something she's already aware of)

I've agreed to every other Saturday, as long as it comes with every Thursday and Monday (or two other days of her choosing) but she's not budging. I'm trying to arrange some mediation and I'm hoping she doesn't make this go all the way to court.

You are better off going to mediation, get it out of the road, if she is borderline - it will be a pointless exercise, but it is a necessary one. Things most likely end up in court, this is both good and bad for you - bad that you actually have to go to court, it could take a while, drag out, in which time you cannot see your offspring... And in a way court can be good, because then she'll have to answer to a judge, who baring luck should see some arrangement where you can see your offspring, and an arrangement that she has to abide by or face further time in court, where things mightn't go her way.

If you have no reason to fear court, push to go there. If you have no orders out on you, etc... Then go to court, let them sort out your business - if she becomes too hard to deal with, which by the sounds of it, she will. I have avoided the courts and I probably haven't needed to, now I have a forensic psychologist handling my business for me. My X can talk to him and explain how good of a job she is doing.

[CM]

You are better off going to mediation, get it out of the road, if she is borderline - it will be a pointless exercise, but it is a necessary one. Things most likely end up in court, this is both good and bad for you - bad that you actually have to go to court, it could take a while, drag out, in which time you cannot see your offspring... And in a way court can be good, because then she'll have to answer to a judge, who baring luck should see some arrangement where you can see your offspring, and an arrangement that she has to abide by or face further time in court, where things mightn't go her way.

If you have no reason to fear court, push to go there. If you have no orders out on you, etc... Then go to court, let them sort out your business - if she becomes too hard to deal with, which by the sounds of it, she will. I have avoided the courts

Ah I hope I can / I wish I could. I think you're right that if this person I'm having to negotiate with is Borderline then I agree, she'll be unable to agree fairly with me and it will end up in a courtroom.

Actually, that scares me most because she lost custody of her last child to that boy's father (she's not good at explaining why that happened apart from the guy's expensive lawyer and the judge was biased) and I don't want to do that to her. I never did, and the shame of it is, if she refuses to settle this in mediation she's going to end up in exactly the situation she's most afraid of. She doesn't seem to be able to see this.

It's her total inability to see what she's doing and how harmful it is that first drove me to try and find out what the hell is wrong, and finally led me here.