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Author Topic: anyone with experiences in therapy?  (Read 431 times)
cm2012

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« on: February 27, 2014, 08:08:58 PM »

I've been on the Detaching board for a year now as my uBPDh and I have been separated. Now, 5 days before our divorce arbitration, I'm feeling like I can't go through with it. After almost a year of separation and 3 months of no contact, he and I met and talked for 2 hours yesterday. He's wanted to reconcile since I moved out, but I had reached the end of my rope and wouldn't entertain the idea of putting it back together.

I've never stopped loving him, I just couldn't take the emotional abuse and roller coaster anymore. Now I'm asking myself if there's a chance that this really is the bottom for him and maybe there's some hope if we can get into therapy that could help him.

We saw marriage therapists (2) when we were at the end of the road. All of them told me there was no hope, that BPD doesn't respond to therapy and I had to make a choice between him and me. No one gave any hope. (When I used the term undiagnosed BPDh - I mean he's never had an official diagnosis. The marriage counselors/therapists gave their "opinion," and shared that only with me, they never told him.) 

I've been reading about Dialectical Behavior Therapy and thinking maybe there is some hope. My husband has been told by family members that they think he might have BPD, but has completely rejected the notion. And during our marriage I supported him in that rejection. I loved him so much I just didn't want to see it. I was in denial until the marriage counselors/therapists brought it up and I've never told him that I was starting to agree with the family members.  So even getting him into DBT will be an uphill battle. But I can't just discard him like the therapists did. And I think if I post this on the Detaching board I will probably just get discouraged.

If anyone has any experience getting their loved one into therapy or making any progress in couples therapy, I'd like to hear your stories.
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2014, 06:45:19 AM »

If anyone has any experience getting their loved one into therapy or making any progress in couples therapy, I'd like to hear your stories.

I am hoping you will get some feedback on this from some of our members.  In the meantime, we have a few articles and videos that might be helpful for you to take a look at, regarding therapy for your husband.

Article - https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

Video's (part 1 and 2) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdVj8gXsETs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppculi-Os2g

Take a look, and let us know what you think. 
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cm2012

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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2014, 12:18:41 PM »

Want2know - thank you for the links.

I had actually watched Amador's video when I was first coming to grips with the idea that my husband had BPD. I realize now that my thought process lately and my post were looking for hope where there is none.

I have to accept it and I have to let him go.
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 07:06:19 AM »

I see you came here first in August, already separated from your husband and in the process of divorcing him.  I understand hanging onto the hope that things will get better.  Sometimes they can, but it's a difficult road.

I think one of the problems I faced is one day I was so solid on ending the relationship, and the next day I'd think of it in a different way and thought it could work out.  Understanding the reality of the disorder and dedicating yourself to working with it can be a difficult choice. 

How are you feeling today about it?
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cm2012

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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 12:10:49 AM »

Want2know -

Our divorce arbitration was coming up next week. I felt like I just wasn't ready to go through with it.  For the last year I've headed full speed down a path of getting away from him, and a good measure of it was because of what everyone else was telling me I had to do. Three therapists and family members made me feel like I had no choice but to leave him. And once I left, everyone was quick to demonize him. It's true - he's been ruthless in his pursuit to bring me to my knees - all because I left him. He never wanted me to leave. He was devastated when I did.

I've enforced no contact with him for over 3 months and last week I broke that. He says he wants to have a chance to make it right. I started reading "Loving Someone With Borderline Personality Disorder" (I've read other material, but never this particular book.) I started thinking that maybe I've bought into this idea that was presented to me by the therapists and the things I've read, that he was unsalvageable. I started to question that.

I've gone back and forth like a whip-saw in just the last few days - from thinking I'm crazy to even entertain the idea that it can work - to thinking that I'm hopelessly co-dependent and that's the reason I've opened the door again - to maybe the therapists didn't give him a fair shake by writing him off as untreatable and therefore unsalvageable. And maybe, as his wife and someone who loves him and sees the good in him, maybe I owe him and myself more than what I've given him.

I've gotten the names of some therapists who deal with BPD and provide services to family members. I'm going to try to see someone next week to help me sort this out. I'm not trying to get my husband into therapy. That's not my goal as I think about this. Right now he would be appalled to think I thought he had a "mental illness," let alone was talking to anyone about it. So there's that obstacle. But from what I've read it probably won't work if he never acknowledges his behavior, so if I'm to have any hope at all that has to be part of what I hope for. How we would ever get there, I don't know. I just know I'm not ready to give up. (BTW - I asked for a 4 week postponement of the divorce arbitration, which he was all too happy to agree to.)
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2014, 07:44:16 AM »

I've gotten the names of some therapists who deal with BPD and provide services to family members. I'm going to try to see someone next week to help me sort this out. I'm not trying to get my husband into therapy. That's not my goal as I think about this.

This sounds like a solid plan.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I understand the hesitancy.  One thing I think would benefit you and your husband, would to be clear that just because you have postponed the divorce arbitration, doesn't mean that you are definitely going to get back together with him.  I know you don't have control over how he thinks and feels (ie. him being happy that you have postponed it with the thought you might get back together).  Just be careful if you do have any communication with him.  Keep any communication business-like, in the meantime.  Avoid talking about feelings and any possible future with him, etc.  Does that make sense?
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2014, 10:22:12 AM »

Excerpt
We saw marriage therapists (2) when we were at the end of the road. All of them told me there was no hope, that BPD doesn't respond to therapy and I had to make a choice between him and me. No one gave any hope. (When I used the term undiagnosed BPDh - I mean he's never had an official diagnosis. The marriage counselors/therapists gave their "opinion," and shared that only with me, they never told him.)  

The opinion of the MC is not in line with what is known about BPD remission rates in treatment. There are now sizable long term studies BPD which have been ongoing for over a decade.

Here is an editorial on STEPPS, a 20 week program that can be used in additional to DBT or other behavioral therapies. DBT programs are often a year (once a week).   Usually there is some general talk therapy too... . no question that this is expensive and intensive process.

This editorial reports 40% of patients with borderline personality disorder remit (remission) after 2 years, with 88% no longer meeting Diagnostic Interview for Borderlines—Revised or DSM-III-R criteria after 10 years



Editorial

Augmenting Psychotherapy for Borderline Personality Disorder: The STEPPS Program

Kenneth R. Silk, M.D.


The diagnosis of borderline personality disorder conjures up thoughts of helplessness and hopelessness. The helplessness and hopelessness reside not only in the patient but often in the treatment providers as well. A widespread belief that continues to exist among mental health professionals is that treatment does very little for borderline personality disorder patients. Yet they are very difficult to disengage from treatment. Therapists shy away from informing the patient that she has the diagnosis because to pronounce the diagnosis not only would be equivalent to a type of "death sentence" (as we used to be afraid of telling patients that they had cancer or schizophrenia), but it would also cause fear of the rage that the therapist is certain to encounter from the affectively dyscontrolled patient.

Much has changed in the last 10–15 years, but unfortunately too many therapists still feel that borderline personality disorder is untreatable and is a lifelong drain on the energy of the therapist, the psychopharmacologist, and the entire mental health system. While it is true that people with borderline personality disorder utilize mental health resources to a far greater extent than their 1%–2% prevalence would suggest (1), the idea that these patients never change or improve needs revision.

Substantial research now sheds light on many of these mythical assumptions. There is strong evidence from the McLean Study of Adult Development that 40% of patients with borderline personality disorder remit after 2 years, with 88% no longer meeting Diagnostic Interview for Borderlines—Revised or DSM-III-R criteria after 10 years (2). The temporal stability (or lack of it) in a borderline personality disorder diagnosis has also been examined in the Collaborative Longitudinal Personality Disorders Study, and findings suggest that about one-half of those who meet borderline personality disorder on intake no longer meet DSM-IV criteria 24 months later (3).

Even more surprising and myth-debunking is the number of well-designed controlled studies in support of effective treatment for borderline personality disorder patients. These studies, for the most part, are randomized controlled trials of therapies that range from cognitive behavior, such as dialectical behavioral therapy (4) and other more straightforward cognitive behavioral therapies (5), to psychodynamic and psychoanalytically based therapies, which include mentalization-based therapy (6) and transference-focused psychotherapy (7), to the blend of cognitive and dynamic therapies in schema-focused therapy (8 ). And not surprisingly, as therapies that appear to be effective emerge, there are now articles urging that patients be informed of their borderline personality disorder diagnosis (9). It is interesting that most of these interventions are in the nonpharmacologic arena, while psychopharmacologic treatment of borderline personality disorder remains unclear, uncertain, and in general unimpressive.

... .

A good way to stabilize the situation is to work on yourself  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post). Clearly he would benefit from therapy but only if he chooses himself to do it. And that choice is his.
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 10:53:06 AM »

Hi, just a question... . I was doing a lot of research on this as I contemplated what to do with my ex as he knew he had BPD and claimed to have received therapy for it.  What does remission actually mean? Does it mean they can actually handle being in an intimate adult relationship, or does it mean that the worst symptoms (impulsiveness, cutting, rages, etc.) are under control? 

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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 11:28:36 AM »

Excerpt
What does remission actually mean? Does it mean they can actually handle being in an intimate adult relationship, or does it mean that the worst symptoms (impulsiveness, cutting, rages, etc.) are under control?  

Remission in the context of these studies means that whatever is observed is not raising to a level that would trigger the specific study criteria (e.g. defined as meeting 2 DSM criteria in the study mentioned below). Studies are typically more aimed towards a clinical context so in that light it mostly means whatever is observed is not raising to a clinical level. For specific studies the criteria and diagnostic tools vary so as always it depends on the individual study and needs to be defined there.

Generally the studies are patient centric so they focus on the symptoms the patient has and not on their relationships. Having said this the ability to function in society e.g. hold a job and have relationships is also followed. A publication on the 10 year longitudinal study by Gunderson which also touches these aspects can be found here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3158489/

It is difficult to extrapolate what these studies ultimately mean for us as it is unclear what percentage of members SO would raise to the level of clinical BPD diagnostic criteria.
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 12:02:13 PM »

Hi, this is very interesting... . I hope I am not detracting from the original post, as I am not usually on this board but this thread really caught my attention, as I suspect that my BPDex's symptoms are currently in remission (ie: no longer exhibits the most extreme symptoms he exhibited while I was with him, such as cutting, suicidal thoughts, impulsiveness, extreme jealousy, and other out of control behaviour).

The study you linked to ultimately concludes:

"The 10-year course of BPD is characterized by high rates of remission, low rates of relapse, and severe and persistent impairment in social functioning."

Perhaps this is where a lot of the grey area resides when it comes to experiences of members on this board: BPD symptoms vs. ability to function in society (which I imagine involves holding a job, and maintaining relationships). One (BPD symptoms) are very likely to improve, whereas the other (social functioning), seems to remain a persistent problem if I interpret it correctly.
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2014, 03:41:00 PM »

I have managed to get my wife into DBT. She has agreed to go, but I have realized that now as the going gets tough she is trying to make me believe that the therapist is a fraud and that the therapy is leading nowhere. I don't know if this is just her projecting her feelings onto the therapist or if it's an excuse for not making progress or effort in therapy (or even quitting?).

My wife has been really manipulative in this, pushing my buttons and implying that the T would have certain qualities and opinions that she knows I dislike, and I have my reasons not to belive her.

My wife went through psychotherapy many moons ago and her psychotherapist was a really crazy lady... . or at least that's how she described her. She said several times that the therapist had opinions about ME. When I said that it must be my wife's *description* of me that the therapist has opnions about, she brushed it aside and said that her therapist was a classic man-hater.

The real hard pill for me to swallow is my wife is to immature emotionally to take part in the therapy. It takes some dedication and strength. 
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pallavirajsinghani
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2014, 05:17:21 PM »

Hello My Friend:

There is indeed a success story of a wife whose husband has had years of therapy and whose BPD is well-managed so that he is a functional and stable individual and they have a stable marriage.  Her posts are under the name, "Steph".  You may be able to read her thread.  It required a long term consistent effort on both their parts.  He was completely dedicated to his recovery and therein lay the seeds of their hope and their eventual getting back together.  Their road to recovery included individual therapy for each of them (primarily to help her with codependent behaviours and establishing and asserting boundaries for herself) and DBT for him.  It also included a "therapeutic separation", which is separation under the guidance of professional clinicians.

When I try to summarize their efforts, it seems simplistic.  The reality was far from it.  However, the thread itself will give you vital intuitions about whether or not it may be possible in your situation.

While you may be the wife who can go to hell and beyond and back to help your husband overcome this illness, he may not be the husband dedicated to his own welfare.

If you make seeking DBT therapy a condition of reconciliation, he will find it controlling and manipulative and therefore, abusive.  He won't be able to stick to it.  If he commits to rigorous long term therapy for himself, then, and only then there is true hope for a future reconciliation and a successful adult relationship.

More often than we should, we negate our intuition.  We let logic override our gut instinct.  Hope makes us do it, and nostalgia and wishful thinking... .   So knowing your husband, knowing his psyche... . what is your gut instinct telling you?

If your gut tells you that it is indeed possible, then reconcile.  If your instinct screams against it, then do not over ride it -- neither with logic nor with morality.

Compassion can be a dangerous... . misplaced altruism is one of the most fundamental and detrimental impulse.

Here is a very well known fable that illustrates what I am trying to say:


www.thecruxmovie.com/pdf/TheBridgeShortStory.pdf

God bless

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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2014, 08:12:25 PM »

Funny, I had a therapist tell me this story.  He ended it with when the rope was dropped, the fellow landed safely on the ground, got up and went up to the bridge again to find someone else to grab hold of it.  The therapist said that my husband would just look for someone else to hold the rope, as he didn't want the responsibility himself.
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