Are we living a life of deceptions and lies?

[joshbjoshb]

The thread about husband feeling betrayed if he knew you are writing on this forum, got me thinking.

Currently, there are many things I am hiding from her.

Writing in this forum. I use google chrome incognito mode to leave no trace to my posts. The fact that I am the more techie person in the house helps as well. She doesn't know anything about this forum.

I also have an email address that I used to contact therapists, keep a record of her threats (just in case), and sometimes just write there for venting purposes. Again, she has no clue.

How about yesterday? When my sister called to share an issue with another sibling. We brainstormed for a while, and she mentioned that perhaps I can also send her some money to help coping. Last time she asked me to help, my wife freaked out (she really doesn't like my family, feels insecure with them, would avoid any relationship as much as she can although it's not a clear fight between her and my family). So I went outside to talk, and then when she asked me what my sister want and whether or not she asked for money, I said "no". Of course that was a lie.

I can give you a long list of similar lies, if you want to call them that way.

Do you lead a similar life? How does it feel for you? Is there a way to live with a BPDw and not have to lie so much?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[hergestridge]

I don't think my BPDw would mind, but she would be hurt if she read what I write here. So Id advise her not to. She very well understands my need to vent what's going on with an outside party, and I think she prefers I discuss it with anonymous people on the net rahter than chatting with the neighbours about it.

She's not big on the secrets herself. She actually sought help for having "inapropriate" sexual fanasies. The doctor asked what the problem was.

[HopefulDad]

Why lie?

I think it's important to set boundaries on privacy, but also with assurances that you are not using those boundaries for something like having an affair.

My BPDw does not know I post here and I don't tell her because it is none of her business.  But should she ever find out and confront me, my answer will be a firm, "I will choose to discuss my life with whomever I want, particularly a bunch of anonymous internet posters."  If she gets upset at that then my answer is, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

She has asked me if I've talked about us with my family and my answer has always been yes.  I reassure her that they care about us and her a lot and are not judgmental (they know about some of her behaviors that even she admits are wrong), but I make no promises to stop talking to them.

She's asked who else I've spoken to and I tell her the which friends.  She's asked what we've spoken about and I've given summaries.  If she presses for details, I tell her I do not want to discuss this any further.  If she gets upset at that, then it's back to "I'm sorry you feel that way."

The bottom line is that I don't lie, I choose what to say or not say and I don't let the FOG change any of that.

[Stalwart]

":)o you lead a similar life? How does it feel for you? Is there a way to live with a BPDw and not have to lie so much?"

I wish I had a great, clear and concise answer for you but hey we all live different lives and at times differently in our own.

I sure understand the need to try and help your own family while trying to keep the peace with a spouse who generally isn’t on the best terms wanting to help your family. I used to do a lot behind my wife’s back when I felt it necessary to help my kid’s financially. I detested doing it as well. At the same time she was continuously helping out some other acquaintances without my knowledge (even though I would have supported it and always did and still do.)

I finally decided for myself that lying is just that: lying and as much as I really was offended by her continuous problem with it, and regardless of the outcome, I wasn’t going to either participate in it myself or entertain it any longer.

I worked with her on the issue so she knew it was alright to help support the person she wanted to, but she had to run it by me first. On the other hand I made certain I always run by any support or financial help I wanted to give to someone. In fact all spending is mentioned now prior to spending it (for the most part.) It took a while to get it all established, but we’ve managed to pretty much do it and do it together.

She has the problem of chronic and excessive personal spending as well. That’s ongoing, but she’s come to me now to help so we’re presently locking the cash over to me and limiting her ability to spend. That one had to be her doing it though and honestly it couldn’t have been done in any kind of civil manner had it not been her driving that change and wanting to correct her spending problem. The jury’s still out on that one, but so far it’s optimistic but wow, we’ve had some severe times over her hiding spending and card use in the past. We’re both totally open, honest and share in the management of cash now and it feels great. As always though in dealing with these things it takes vigilance and patience and I’m sure there will be slips here and there backwards.

I really feel for your position because it’s a tough one to be in. In the long run I just couldn’t live with my own lying (while condemning and detesting hers.) It was a much a personal improvement plan as a shared marital one and establishing boundaries across the board on how we’d treat each other in that respect.

[gary seven]

The thread about husband feeling betrayed if he knew you are writing on this forum, got me thinking.

Currently, there are many things I am hiding from her.

Do you lead a similar life? How does it feel for you? Is there a way to live with a BPDw and not have to lie so much?

Josh I am there.

My reality is that I do not consider it lying to her.  Sometimes I get to have my own life.  It's rare and infrequent, but I try my hardest to get a walk outside my job maybe once a week, and I try to do something meaningful for each of my elementary school aged kids. 

My situation is awful, and she is starting to revolt against therapist+1, medication n+1, and psychiatrist n+1. 

However, I am try to use the SET techniques with each  conversation with her, no matter how negative I find it  "Where is all the closet space in this house?" is currently playing in her top 5 playlist.  Guess what, the house we live in is 30 yrs old and it does not have the spaces that a house 10 yrs ago , or even nowadays has.  I tell her:  The fact is this is the house.  You need to accept it.  I also tell her to stop complaining in front of the kids. 

She does not know about my posting on this forum.  This is my personal space, and these people are my friends.  Mostly because they are all confronted by the same  animal, just in a  different color or size or shape.

I use a separate email, too.  I deserve protection/boundaries/lines in the sand, whatever you may call it.  You do to.  The lives we live are not filled with lies:  they are filled ways to cope combined with the awful truth of a mental illness/mood disorder you happened to be married to. It is not a lie.   For me it is how I live and how I cope.  It is my reality. Personally I want a better life, but it's over a year away.

[woodsposse]

Is there a way to live with a BPDw and not have to lie so much?

No.

Short - sweet - to the point.  No.

[woodsposse]

I don't like to lie. 

I don't like to have to hold anything in - especially with someone I'm suppose to be close to and open with.  I would like to tell a little story.  It is a story of two of my friends (who's names I will change).  This is the story of Tina and Judy.

Tina is a friend I have known since we were kids.

Judy is a friend I have known since 1990 (she married a pal from HS).

Tina and I hadn't spoken since we were 16.  We found each other on Facebook about two years ago... . had our "Hey let's catch up" conversation and that was cool.  Fast forward a few more months we got to chatting on the phone, her husband recently passed and my spouse recently left so we became support buddies.  We talk on the phone for hours and hours and hours.  About everything and nothing.  She lets me rage at the moon... . cry... . laugh... you name it (and she does the same).  It's open... . free... . we are just being.

Judy I reached out to when it was clear I was in serious trouble with my marriage and really needed a friend to talk with.  She was kind and offered support and was there as a shoulder and I love her for it and appreciate and respect her for it.  But as time came and my wife and I split ... . and I started moving on with my life - she became more and more upset because I wasn't following her advice on what I should do with my life.  yeah, it was a bit motherly - and certainly our relationship was sort of like that - but at the end of the day if I wanna snort coke off a stippers tit I'm gonna do that.

But Judy didn't like somethings I was doing or conversations I was having so I started to censor myself around her... . which made me a little anxious inside and I couldn't figure out why. 

Yes, I was self medicating.  I admit that.  I started to drink a lot.  but that wasn't what the issue was (well she brought it up and I acknowledged it and got it under control)... . she didn't like I started wanting to date a new young lady... . and wanted to pit our friendship over my choices.

Oh... . I really really didn't like that. 

So... . we stopped talking about that part of my personal life.  Was I lying? Did I say I wasn't dating when I was... . no.  But I omitted it in conversation.  AND THATS IS STRAIGHT BULLCRAP!

So our friendship got strained and "ended".  She reached out to me shortly after that to see if we could mend the fence.  I said sure and we continued the friendship - but it was strained and I'm still not able to be "me" for fear of upsetting her.

Meanwhile... . my friendship with Tina is solid.  I can tell her anything and everything and she's like "okay... . that's cool."  or  "Okay... . that's cool... . I wouldn't have made that choice but it's your life". 

Back to Judy... . Now she is bent the F outta shape because I won't do something she wants which... . by the way... . she had no reasonable expectation for me to do (the short of it is she wanted me to go through my facebook and defriend some people we are mutual friends with because I sometimes get a little "out there" on my FB and some people can take offense.  Of course I told her there is no way in hell I would do that.  If they want to defriend me - that is on them.  But How could you even write a sentence where you ask me to defriend people because you want me to?  That doesn't make any sense).

So because I won't heed to this illogical and irrational request - I'm out of control. I'm the ass.  Somehow I became the "bad boy" in the family. 

Again - that's BULLCRAP!

So our friendship ended... . again.

But one of our mutual friends is Tina.  So judy runs to Tina and tells how hurt she is because I won't do this thing for her and how a terrible person and friend I am.  Of course, Tina is telling me everything because we roll like that - and I'm like "Wait a minute... . I'm being painted black by a friend for not doing what she wants even though what she wants makes no kinda GD sense?"

This disorder is a crazy making beast.

Needless to say - I wrote Judy  an emotional letter which basically said "I love you.  You are a wonderful person. I cherish the time we spent together and thank you for being there for me.  Goodbye"

Haven't spoken to her since and have no plans on doing so.

I talk to Tina all the time.  There hasn't been one time we have been on the phone where I felt uncomfortable being me - or uncomfortable with listening to her request to do something and abiding by it... . because it made sense.  It was rational.  It was logical.

(I had a habit of interrupting our calls if my ex-wife called.  Tina asked if I could see it from her point of view and give her the respect she deserved in conversations... . which made perfect sense.  My ex would only call to start more drama.  Nothing important - so why run to do that?)

It made sense.  It was rational... . logical... . and quite lovingly said.

I don't like living a lie.  I don't like deceptions.

I am completely comfortable and open with my new G/F.  She knows all about my relationship with Judy (and Tina for that fact).  Why?  because they are parts of my life.  And if my new G/F is going to be part of my life - she should know what makes up my life.

My new G/F is completely comfortable with my friendships.  And if ever I find out that she really isn't and was only saying that to tell me what she thought I wanted to hear... . that would be a deathnail in our relationship.

If you are gonna be with me - you are gonna come with you.  That's all I want - and that's all I'll ever be.

[GopherAgent]

joshbjoshb... .

Well... . Yea! I hide this stuff.

After all... . She has her outlook and perspective and her ways of responding to our relationship that are not "normal", in the sense that someone with a disorder such as this looks at things through the perspective of that disorder. In some sense, it's her own form of "manipulating" life so can she deal with it on her terms. As such, her responses to life in general are "disordered" and when  they happen it occurs with a regularity and sameness that is now nearly predicable.

So she interprets what I say about our relationship and about her from that mindset and has great difficulty, if nearly an impossibility, to see what I am saying from my perspective and to take my words and compassion and suggestion to her and mull them over honestly and without "dis-regulation" and say... . "I understand you and you perspective". She simply can't do this. Ever. Every thing is based on her responses to how she sees her world.

So attempting to be "honest" in this relationship has it's own values and outcomes, and most certainly, it's limitations. By that, I mean, that my honesty and clarity about situations between us is limited by what I now understand are her limitations in how she see things. I now have a history of the events and responses so that I can almost predict the upcoming tantrums and threats as they happen in real time.

So, my response, now, is to respond so that it doesn't get to the BPD reaction, flare up, verbal abuse trigger point. So, my honesty is checked and limited by having the expectation that the blowup is just fractions of a second away, or a misspoken word said or a wrong facial mannerism away.

Yes... . I hide this site. I hide the books I read. I tell my children not to complain to her that another round of dis-regulation has occurred. Yes, I hide the tape recorder with the saved messages of her threatening me with death. I hide the journal notes I keep about this madness from her. After all, since I am told how she knows how I am feeling at every second about her, she is so focused on herself and thinks I am so stupid (been told that dozens of time), then I am more than happy to continue to let her think I am stupid, blind and dumb. Tried to change that opinion with her... . but no luck so far. So... . WHY TRY!

Yes... . I hide things. And now that I do that... . that is... . now that I have an intelligent and realistic understanding of how things are and will continue to be... . I can actually live life now and make some plans about how to respond long term to something that will never ever change. And part of that is not to tip my hand, or reveal my insights and not to let on that I see it differently now. She is totally unaware that I am on to this with her. But, that's part of this disease. Her own deception about what makes her tick. Right!

But if I don't do these things, I would be hopeless and defeated by this hatred and hostility from her. Now, more that ever, and because of this illness, I know myself better that ever. I am now more proud of what I have learned about life and it's twists and turns so that I am at relative peace with life's ongoing events and where I am headed. 

This is not lying... . or cheating... . or being deceptive on any level as far as I am concerned. Since I know the cards are stacked in a certain way... . my responses are managed efforts to mitigate and control my reactions to the madness I deal with every day. These reactions are deliberate and constructive acts of self preservation to ensure my sanity which helps me to react constructively and proactively to life's crap thrown at me from her anger and hatred of herself.

Thanks for reality of the topic... . GopherAgent

[Wrongturn1]

Wow, GopherAgent, I loved your post - that is pure gold!  And this part... .

So she interprets what I say about our relationship and about her from that mindset and has great difficulty, if nearly an impossibility, to see what I am saying from my perspective and to take my words and compassion and suggestion to her and mull them over honestly and without "dis-regulation" and say... . "I understand you and you perspective". She simply can't do this. Ever. Every thing is based on her responses to how she sees her world.

... . to me, hits the nail on the head of why, even during "good" periods, a relationship with someone with BPD is so stressful and difficult.  What we say is not the same thing they hear, and so anything/everything/nothing in particular can set them off at a moment's notice.

People with BPD seem incapable of hearing and understanding/interpreting ANYTHING from our perspective, which more or less renders the entire concept of truth a MOOT POINT.  The result is that any truth that we tell our people with BPD is filtered through their self-loathing and distorted thinking such that the message they receive bears no semblance to the truth we just told and essentially becomes a lie.  So in a very real sense, they are incapable of hearing truth from us, regardless of what we say.

[unicorn2014]

Why lie?

I think it's important to set boundaries on privacy, but also with assurances that you are not using those boundaries for something like having an affair.

My BPDw does not know I post here and I don't tell her because it is none of her business.  But should she ever find out and confront me, my answer will be a firm, "I will choose to discuss my life with whomever I want, particularly a bunch of anonymous internet posters."  If she gets upset at that then my answer is, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

She has asked me if I've talked about us with my family and my answer has always been yes.  I reassure her that they care about us and her a lot and are not judgmental (they know about some of her behaviors that even she admits are wrong), but I make no promises to stop talking to them.

She's asked who else I've spoken to and I tell her the which friends.  She's asked what we've spoken about and I've given summaries.  If she presses for details, I tell her I do not want to discuss this any further.  If she gets upset at that, then it's back to "I'm sorry you feel that way."

The bottom line is that I don't lie, I choose what to say or not say and I don't let the FOG change any of that.

DOn't you think that's kind of harsh? That's what my dBPD partner says to me "I'm sorry you feel that way" and it makes me mad!

[HopefulDad]

Why lie?

I think it's important to set boundaries on privacy, but also with assurances that you are not using those boundaries for something like having an affair.

My BPDw does not know I post here and I don't tell her because it is none of her business.  But should she ever find out and confront me, my answer will be a firm, "I will choose to discuss my life with whomever I want, particularly a bunch of anonymous internet posters."  If she gets upset at that then my answer is, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

She has asked me if I've talked about us with my family and my answer has always been yes.  I reassure her that they care about us and her a lot and are not judgmental (they know about some of her behaviors that even she admits are wrong), but I make no promises to stop talking to them.

She's asked who else I've spoken to and I tell her the which friends.  She's asked what we've spoken about and I've given summaries.  If she presses for details, I tell her I do not want to discuss this any further.  If she gets upset at that, then it's back to "I'm sorry you feel that way."

The bottom line is that I don't lie, I choose what to say or not say and I don't let the FOG change any of that.

DOn't you think that's kind of harsh? That's what my dBPD partner says to me "I'm sorry you feel that way" and it makes me mad!

Well you can also say something like, "Well, I understand you want to talk about it further, but I really don't.  I'm sorry we cannot agree on that."  Bottom line is don't JADE.

[woodsposse]

"I'm sorry you feel this way".

Yup - heard it all the time from my ex.  Drove me crazy!

[waverider]

Never having to lie is an ideal.

We are not ideal people

We are not in an ideal relationship.

Yet it still an ideal to have in mind and aim for. Reality is ideals are rarely achieved, you have to accept this and do your best, taking into account what is best for everyone.

eg ":)id you miss me?"

Honest answer> "No i had the best time without having to listening to you whining all day, I loved kicking back and enjoying some peace and quite'

Actual answer>" Of course I did it was a bit quite here all on my own"

You are kidding yourself if you think total honesty is always the fair thing to do.

To attempt to be as honest as you can whilst being considerate of the consequencies is the best approach.

As I have gone further down the path of dealing with a BPD relationship, the more open,honest and blunt I can be. That has been part of the evolution.

As far as posting here is concerned you have to treat it like your private diary, and a pwBPD doesn't not have the self restraint about crossing the boundary of privacy. So your reasons for hiding that privacy is legitimate and you shouldn't feel guilty about it.

As much truth as someone can responsibly cope with is a good guide.

Is the question really about whether you are being fair, or is more about you feeling guilty?

[woodsposse]

eg ":)id you miss me?"

Honest answer> "No i had the best time without having to listening to you whining all day, I loved kicking back and enjoying some peace and quite'

Actual answer>" Of course I did it was a bit quite here all on my own"

You are kidding yourself if you think total honesty is always the fair thing to do.

Uhm... . I respectfully disagree.  In the example honest answer, the reply is loaded with negative comments such as "whining all day" and enjoying peace and quiet with out the person.  That is a receipe for disaster.

But if the answer really isn't "of course I did" - then that is setting yourself up for failure.

How come the true answer isn't somewhere inbetween - and not loaded with negatives?

I think the underlying part about living a lie is doing or saying something which isn't true to yourself because you don't want someone else to get so upset.

I finally had it out with my mother.  The truth of the matter is that she abused me as a child.

I'm not going to sugar coat it - I'm not going to make, or accept excuses for it.  She abused me.  So I told her "Mom, you abused me".

She came back with a ration of reasons she acted in the way she did... . I mean a laundry list of reasons, things other peopld did to her, it was my dads fault cause he was abusive... . on and on.  When she was done, I said... . "But Mom... . YOU abused me."

That is the truth.  it isn't made up, watered down or a lie.

What she does with it is what she does with it.  But I won't lie. 

My mother is a child abuser.  I am an abuse survivor - and only recently realizing I am an abuse survivor at that.

No... . I won't lie.  I won't conceal my anger and distrust.  And I won't allow her to continue any emotional manipulation.

[joshbjoshb]

Thank you all for your comments. Is it very interesting to read them, especially as you can read between the lines how each person is dealing with their own, unique, g_d given situation.

Reading some of what you wrote her, I can certainly say that I am a conflict avoider. I would try to avoid at all cost any conflicts. The fact that my wife has a disorder just makes it much worse - as I know I can conceal so much from her, and she will have no clue. Which is what I do.

I tried working out some issues in the past, such as having non-judgmental conversations about her relationship with my family. You know, it's one thing for her not to have one, but it's a whole different thing for her to try and stop me from being in touch with them. And if they are in a bad situation, and we can afford to help a little - why shouldn't we?

So out of no other choice, I go into hiding when it comes to issues that might trigger a rage.

So to summarize, I

Don't always share - or almost never share - real feelings and challenges I am going through, in order not to get my wife stressed out (then on top of my own stress I will need to deal with hers).

Lead a "secret" life on this forum, although it's only for BPD conversation purpose only and for nothing else

Keep a relationships with my family, but leave the house to make phone calls. You might call it also some sore of secretive, but again - nothing against her or betraying her

And sometimes act by sending small amount of money without her knowledge.

All of you are 100% right that I am not a bad person who is doing it out of bad intention. Yet, it feels to me as if I lead a double life.

Am I the only one with this issue?

[GopherAgent]

joshbjoshb... .

Some insight about your last post.

You said "All of you are 100% right that I am not a bad person who is doing it out of bad intention."

Let's rephrase that for a moment and look at it slightly differently.

How about saying this about yourself... . "I am a decent man with realistic goals and aspirations".

I can see you are in the midst of the pain and confusion and disappointment these events cause in your life. You are looking at them through the wounds of being raged at. I fully understand this and can identify with your hurts. After all, you say that you "try and avoid at all cost any conflicts". Again, it seems like you are taking on the ownership of the conflict even though the rages come from someone who is conflicted all on her own because of the BPD that rages in her and gets out and attacks you.

In reality, you are not avoiding the conflicts because you know for certain they will occur. However, you just don't know when or where or how bad it will be. But, it WILL happen.

So, since you know this, then you are simply negotiating the pathways through and around the rages and the conflicts being thrown at you by your SO. Look at it this way if you can... . You are not really avoiding them... . you are managing them. And so we use tools to get us through the rages so we can effectively manage life. So in a large part, there is no "secrecy" or "lying" going on. We are coping and healing and dealing with the disappointment of the hand dealt us and trying to find tools that help us manage the events as they occur so that we can remain somewhat optimistic and somewhat healthy and sane.

So, that's a long winded way of saying that I don't lead a double life... . even though there are things I must manage to make it through the events. Knowing the madness will and does occur with regularity, allows me to be better prepared for the traps and pitfalls that accompany her rages, her accusations and verbal abuse. Yes, I must play games, and really not say what I really want to say about her or what I am really thinking about her abuse and scrunchy up my face into a big loving smiling clown face when she goes birzerk/nutz... . because I am managing my outcome for these catastrophic events. So now, when it happens, as they do, I'm now better prepared at seeing it coming and managing my responses to it.

Since it is necessary to manage our responses to this madness, we come to realize that we are decent people with realistic goals and aspirations to have healthy relationships that nurture not only our SO's, but us as well.

joshbjoshb, I encourage you to continue to look beyond the madness and see yourself as a decent and healthy person dealing with a horrible disease that you don't own and didn't cause but are trying to manage in a healthy and productive manner so you can achieve some modicum of peace and sanity at the days end.

Good luck pal... . Stand strong and LIVE!

Thanks... . GopherAgent

[readytogo]

Thankyou gopheragent

I like Josh try and manouvre around the conflict issues, and try not to endure the put downs about being a bad father and husband, I will use your comment about being a 'decent man', because I am.

Thankyou for sharing that.

Readytogo

[an0ught]

Good questions and valuable discussion.

There is no question in my mind that we need to protect ourselves to a certain degree. BPD can be seen as an emotional regulation problem. And since the pwBPD can't regulate the emotions internally they tend to work through their environment to get the sense of being ok - to feel validated. With all the internal turmoil they feel a quick way to get validated is to upset someone around them - and that is us. Invalidation begets invalidation. We get hurt, get angry and provide the feedback to help the pwBPD to get back to equilibrium. Invalidation is at the core of many BPD relationship dynamics and ignoring it would be naive.

Letting others invalidate us is corrosive (causing us wander in FOG) and we need to protect our sense of self. Boundaries are part of it, what we share, what we let in and where we risk vulnerability.

There is some black and white thinking ongoing with boundaries here and understandably so. When arriving at this board we have reached our limits - we have been pretty open, got hurt badly and with the remainder of our energy we try to protect what is left by building a solid wall. It keeps us safe, we stop tolerating abuse and protect ourselves.

Who wants to live close to a high dead wall?

Nobody, pure walling off is not sustainable and possibly cruel. We need to interact. We can focus our eyes on our SO and validate, provide feedback on the others emotions. It is not totally solid wall. We let some small quantity in and reflect back what we understand. The dictionary on validation says: "substantiate; confirm; corroborate" - at its core validation is simply sense making. We hide behind the reflection. We too need understanding and sense making for ourselves. We are able to generate some ourselves from our protected inner self. We are able to reach out to others be it a T or the board. These are precious resources that sustain us and need protection.

This situation sucks - all because a pwBPD is using others to destructively get validation. Well, not all on our side is golden, some of us could be classified as co-dependents - excessively seeking validation through others - maybe in a less destructive manner. So finding ourselves in a relationship where boundaries are key for getting along is a real shock. It touches the essence what we believe relationships are about. We may come to the conclusion there are potential partners out there with whom we get away with fewer and lower boundaries. Possibly our believes need some adjusting  and definitely our current relationship needs adjusting.

Ultimately we need validation from our relationship - it needs to make sense for us. We were getting it at the beginning. We built a wall. We hide behind reflections. That all is ok while licking our wounds and rebuilding our sense of self.  At one point in time we have to step forward and open up. What and how much depends - boundaries don't have to be a strict b&w line in the sand.

Right now this may be unimaginable considering the level of conflict. But then that level of conflict was lower in the past so it could well be lower in the future. When stronger again and the biggest fires are out skills like validation, SET and boundaries give us the control to allow us to do this in a safe and managed way.

[GopherAgent]

anOught... .

I have a question about your post.

You say... . "There is some black and white thinking ongoing with boundaries here and understandably so."

I highlighted the word "here" in your quote to ask you to clarify it. Are you saying there is b & w thinking "here" in these posts?... . or... . ?

I'm just seeking clarification about your statement. I know that BPD is a complex disorder and one that is difficult for all to negotiate and understand. I'm still working through the revelations of it in my own relationship and continue to look for ways to prepare and respond to the b&w thinking, the rages and mood swings my SO exhibits when "IT" happens. Do you see me responding in a b&w way in my posts? If so, how do  you see that, and how can I look at it differently so I can try a different approach to this?

I'm certainly open to suggestions on how to "view" this issue and modify my thinking about how she is and how I respond to it.

Thanks... . GopherAgent

[waverider]

I think an important aspect is the attitude you have. Do you choose to avoid conflict because that is best in the long run, or is it a default "fear" response.?

In other words who is controlling your life decisions, you or your partner?

There will be things that are just not worth the conflict, and there will be other important issues that have to faced and not ducked, which may require a careful dose of diplomacy.

Being open and honest within reasonable and honourable limits will become easier when you learn to stop going into JADE mode, the self questioning guilt reduces.

Then this:

I am not a bad person who is doing it out of bad intention.

which at its core is JADE mode

Starts to become this:

"I am a decent man with realistic goals and aspirations".

Which is affirmative self belief by changing from defensiveness to taking control of YOU.

[lemon flower]

I have developed some rules for myself concerning lying and hiding things:

- I hide everything about BPD (this forum, books,... . ) since he is undiagnosed and I feel it's not for me to telling him

- I hide information of which I know he could seriously damage me if he would ever start blackpainting me or wanting revenge ( a short example: I am currently unemployed and I do some cleaning for someone to get some extra money: this is information that I would never tell him because he might very well use it against me one day and turn me in, which would cause huge financial problems to me and the person I'm cleaning for)

- when he lived with me (at this moment we don't) I hided alcohol for him, since he's addicted and he'd empty everything in no time, including my best wine for "special occasions" 

when it comes to emotional matters or daily life matters I try to be honest, even if I know it might hurt him, because I do not want to hide who I am for him, I am a spontaneous person and I don't want to weave a web of lies, it's unfair to him and it will destroy all friendship or love between us

[mssalty]

Lies?  No.  I seldom lie to my SO, and when I do, it's only about trivial white lie things and I lie about how I'm feeling when asked while SO is in a mood.   I don't have the energy to lie. 

Are there things I don't share?  Yes.  I have tried my level best to hide my participation here through vague descriptions, clearing browser history, and screen names that I use nowhere else.   

The other day we were watching a show where someone saw an e-mail that made them suspicious.  I was dreading being asked to see my e-mail.   Truthfully, I have nothing to hide.  My e-mail and other messages are mundane.  I don't talk about my SO in e-mail, I don't have secret relationships.  But I fear my SO will find anything to latch onto with suspicion or anger and then I'll have no privacy.   

BUt the flip side of this is that I do not spy or look at my SO's things.   I don't read their journal, don't look at their e-mail, their phone, question their texts, internet history, or anything.  I don't go through their things either.   It's because I expect that they give me some privacy that I give them privacy.   But I don't really assume they will.  So I clear browser history when I come here, I discuss my issues with people that I'm certain will keep confidences, and I censor myself almost everywhere for fear of being found out.