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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Their Mother's Talking To The Kids About Molestation  (Read 393 times)
Turkish
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Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12105


Dad to my wolf pack


« on: March 09, 2014, 10:08:48 PM »

We are 1.5 mos out from physical serparation. We share joint custody of S4 and D23 months. Things are going ok thus far, and other than some clingyness exhibited by D1, the kids are taking it well.

My uBPDx talked to me the other night about telling the kids about boundaries with their bodies. I used to tell S4 that only me, mommy and grandma could touch him "down there" though uBPX's mom no longer bathes them . He's old enough to wash himself there now anyway. My Ex told me she told D1 it was ok if she didn't want to hug grandpa, and to not feel bad about it (I think this happened the other day). I kept waiting fir her to say "even daddy" upon which I would have gone apecrap over the phone. When D1 was about 6 months old, I was making kissy noises on her ear, and her mom saw this and excoriated me for it. S4 also went through a phase where he wanted to kiss me goodbye on the lips. She saw that and i was similarly forbidden from doing that (this coming from the same woman who encouraged me to shower naked with him, which I never did due to feeling uncomfortable about it).

I think she's on this new kick because her new work function means she is working with young adult male survivors of sexual abuse, so now she's even more paranoid. She started kind of lecturing me about what she had learned and I chimed in with some facts I knew (my mom was raped by her father for years as a child, so I took and interest about educating myself about it, especially after we had kids).

Though I understand her fears, since the majority of kids are molested by family members or close aqcuaintances (covet what you see, and is accesible), I fear whatever she might warn the kids about me could be alieanation. I really don't know what I could do about it at this point other than to watch and see if their behaviors change towards me, either subtly or explicitly.

Has anyone else had to deal with something like this? I know of her low views of men, despite having her desperate BPD like attachment need to them, I just don't want her filling our daughters head with nonsense. I understand educating our kids on this stuff is important, I just worry she is not being age appropriate with it.
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
froggy
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2014, 02:24:07 AM »

Turkish... . is she being triggered?

I know I had issues when my children were a certain age... . had to keep telling myself my H was NOT my father.

Being she's disordered she's not taking the kids age into consideration.

Sounds like she's triggered from working with abuse survivors. ... . and the comment about Grandpa sounds... . well you know what it sounds like.
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Turkish
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Posts: 12105


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2014, 11:47:48 AM »

Turkish... . is she being triggered?

I know I had issues when my children were a certain age... . had to keep telling myself my H was NOT my father.

Being she's disordered she's not taking the kids age into consideration.

Sounds like she's triggered from working with abuse survivors. ... . and the comment about Grandpa sounds... . well you know what it sounds like.

Yes, it sounds like she is being triggered by her work. And yes, she has said some age innappropriate things to S then 3 in the past, talking to him as if he were a much older child (I stepped in and pointed this out in a nice way, and she listened to me). Since my own mother is a child rape survivor from her F, I started picking up on identifying possible abuse survivors, at least women. After my mom "came out" (this was after I moved out of the house and she had a mental breakdown), a lot of other older ladies in my life "came out" as well about their past abuse. Their moods and demeanors fit a profile, the most common one being suffering from depression. I used to ask mine if she were abused as a kid. She said no. Given that my mom only let loose her long suppressed memories when she was 50, I still wonder... . Not sure about her dad (serial cheater, formerly physically abusive to his wife). He was out of the country for a significant portion of my uBPDx's childhood. Busy working, and busy with other women.

I don't sense a danger for D1, since D1 is never alone with him. if she were, I would be concerned. Though sometimes friendly and attentive now and then to our kids, I do see and sense the emotional detachment from him that is part of why my Ex is the way she is. I get what you are saying. If it comes up again, I might ask her point-blank: "Is there any real reason why you said that about your father?" Mixing this in with her pathological distrust and devaluation of men, it's hard to seperate what is real and what is not. Feelings are facts for her, as we all know. If that happened to you, I'm sorry. It's bad enough we have to deal with the monsters outisde the home, when we really need to worry about those inside.
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
froggy
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2014, 01:32:04 PM »

Turkish...

Yes my F was a pedophile. .pretty sure he was borderline as well as NPD... physcopath and what ever else you'd like to throw in.

Not a nice man. He was an angry alcoholic with a belt and a hair trigger. He never should have had children ... . never mind 9.

He had girlfriends and we all expected other children to come out of the wood work when he died.

He set us all up to walk into relationships with our own pwBPD. Think he painted big targets on us all that only disordered people can see. Lol

I know I was triggered with my H till my kids were 13... the age I was when my F moved out of the house.

I'm not saying your FIL is a danger... . just saying the wording your ex used says something. .either intended or subconscious.

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Turkish
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Posts: 12105


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2014, 02:25:08 PM »

Turkish...

Yes my F was a pedophile. .pretty sure he was borderline as well as NPD... physcopath and what ever else you'd like to throw in.

Not a nice man. He was an angry alcoholic with a belt and a hair trigger. He never should have had children ... . never mind 9.

That's horrible, froggy. I'm glad you got help and seem to have had support. He sounds like my mother's father, who luckily died when she was 14 (unfortunately, her mom had died when she was 11, older siblings moved out, leaving her alone with that monster). When my mom and her one surviving brother talked only two years ago (mom 70, he 83 or something), my mom finally told him. He replied that they always suspected something. Their F was extremely abusive to all of them. Tossed the kids so hard their heads put holes into the sheetrock sometimes. They both agreed that he was a very evil man. In my life, I've never heard my mom say that about anyone.

Excerpt
He had girlfriends and we all expected other children to come out of the wood work when he died.

He set us all up to walk into relationships with our own pwBPD. Think he painted big targets on us all that only disordered people can see. Lol

My mom suffers from severe depression, and has some BPD traits (borderline borderline). Of course, I was set up to be with someone similar due to my own issues. Though my mom is overall a much nicer person than my uBPDx.

Excerpt
I know I was triggered with my H till my kids were 13... the age I was when my F moved out of the house.

I'm not saying your FIL is a danger... . just saying the wording your ex used says something. .either intended or subconscious.

Though I am still loathe to talk at length with her (I missed church yesterday due to the time change... . she texted if I was there as she had brought the kids), I may not physically see her for a month or more. Still, it is worth asking her, and I'd like to do it in person to gague her reaction.
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
ennie
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2014, 05:02:01 PM »

Yes, and it has become worse over the years, culminating in BPD mom's accusation that the kids grandma was a pedophile.  Could not be farther from the truth!

My two SD's (ages 9 and 13 now, I first entered their lives at 3 and 7 years of age) have been constantly told to beware of inappropriate behavior, and a lot of the warnings are totally inappropriate, exposing the kids to abusive behavior.  For example, when SD13 was 9, she came back to mom's with a scratch on the bottom from falling off of the swing, and mom stripped her naked and photographed her scratch, threatening to inform CPS.  But mostly, it is these weird phases of mom telling the kids not to kiss me or dad on the lips, not to ever let anyone see them naked except mom (even when they were little and this was not really possible as SD3 did not know how to wipe), and also REALLY inconsistent instructions--way to liberal to way to strict, every week different at some stages.  Totally challenging. 

A few points I want to make. 

First, we have found that mom's insinuations and accusations have tracked her own inappropriate behavior.  So it is not just that she is hypocritical, but that when she called me and accused my of harming the kids, it was right after she had attacked her boyfriend and then lied and had him arrested for attempted rape; when she accused me of allowing the kids to fondle my breasts when the kids were 5 and 8, we learned 3 years later that she was allowing them to nurse occasionally, up to 11 years of age.  When she accused grandma of sexual abuse was when she was allowing the kids to take naked hot tubs by her not-boundaried boyfriend.  And so forth.  So we have learned to really take note when she makes accusations, and to try to find out what she is doing and put pressure for her to stop her inappropriate behavior.  Which is usually not too hard, because she tends to be so worried about how she is seen that just the fact that we know makes her pretend and try to convince the kids that whatever happened would NEVER happen.

Second, in our case, the paranoid warning to the kids from BPD mom lead soon to accusations, first just to us and of us, soon to other family members, and soon reported to CPS.  The only thing that protected us from this false accusation and protected the kids from having relationships with accused family destroyed was that they had a GREAT therapist, who really helped them to tell their stories in a clear way.  So get help, and get it soon, because a reliable third party (ideally with some forensic psychology experience) is a great idea.  The problem is that young kids are really suggestible, and mom is SO important at that age, that these warnings if graphic can turn into accusations really easily. 

Finally, I want to say that the other thing we have really worked on is helping the girls establish a more clear sense of boundaries.  BPD mom is totally boundary invading--touching them inappropriately, very physical, and not respecting their own sense of space at all---and then completely restrictive.  So we set really clear body boundaries between the sisters ("ask before you touch". Dad is very clear about what is okay and not okay touch with him.  As a step-mom, I am very particular about ALWAYS asking before I enter the girl's personal space, unless it is clear that they are open to it, and being very clear when their way of being physical is too much for me.  I try hard to not make the girls "wrong" or "bad", but to help them understand what it is like when their hands are in my face and I do not want that, and how different it feels when my permission is granted first.  This seems to really help them. 

My kids' mom was severely sexually abused, and I know that her fear and strange boundaries are just an expression of her own serious confusion about her own boundaries which were horribly violated.  I have real compassion for that lack of clarity, and because she is BPD and pretty narcissistic, there is no way for DH or me to address any of these issues with her.  But it has been VERY important for us not to just take this lightly, but to address these issues with the kids' therapist and in how we treat the girls from a young age.
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