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Author Topic: Help me understand... My actions tell him my feelings?  (Read 396 times)
Happy73

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« on: March 18, 2014, 01:03:25 PM »

my uBPDh tells me that it's my actions that tell him how I feel about him.     

I feel like I am just waiting for the next blow up.  Lately I have tried to take care of my emotions knowing that if I'm not ok, my kids and I won't be ok. 

Before I was frantically trying to make everything ok for him, keep the kids in line, keep things in order and hoping and praying nobody said something to him to make him upset. 

So is him telling me my actions are my feelings a  projection, a mirror, or ?
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In_n_Out
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2014, 02:01:22 PM »

I read something in one of the BPD books that I've read that I found very interesting; and I was *guilty* of this:  when your SO is telling you how they are feeling and you sit quietly, listening, emotionless... . that *invalidates* THEIR emotions because to them it is saying "they don't care that I'm feeling this way".  A pwBPD feed off of their environment so if you are expressionless and aren't providing feedback (like we do with most *other* people that we are listening to) then you are showing them that you don't care or understand their emotions.

The book recommended giving visual and verbal cues (validation); examples would be reaching out to touch their hand as they speak or smiling when they smile or give a look of sorrow when they are sad.  I.e., mirror them, nod, say "tell me more how this has upset you", etc.

Crazy that we have to have an instruction manual on what is otherwise the most basic of human interaction with emotionally dysregulated people.
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an0ught
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2014, 05:35:22 PM »

He got a point. Behavior and decisions are very good indicators of emotions. It is much, much harder to lie with them than with words.

It is also said that communication is 70% body language, voice and 30% words.

Now if he is a pwBPD it would be unusual for him to correctly read and act on it. He may still struggle but at least he is putting his mind to work in the right direction.

.
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waverider
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2014, 05:51:05 PM »

pwBPD are masters of insincerity, they think this is normal and suspect others are the same. Hence the need for constant reassurance. They suspect others of faking it and so if you are being hesitant and indecisive they will imagine the worse.

They are hypersensitive to the moods of others, the only problem is they misinterpret the meanings.

This is why they are more stable around people who are supremely self confident (not arrogant). The path to getting a BPD RS back on track is to build your own self confidence, so that you don't give mixed messages.
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Happy73

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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2014, 06:09:54 PM »

I can see your points... . thank you.

He was married for 18 years and believe that it was constant turmoil. 

I feel like he is putting his fears and turning them into my "feelings".

He is constantly telling me that he loves me way more than I love him. 

He wishes that I could just love him as much as he loves me.

At this point I feel like I have ran circles for so long I don't even know how to start getting back on track.

I really do love him, I just feel like I am playing a mad, mad game 
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waverider
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2014, 06:44:35 PM »

I just feel like I am playing a mad, mad game 

The only way to survive in the long run, is to step outside the game and play being yourself

Turning his fears into your feelings is a form of projection.

To a degree trying to outdo you in the affection stakes is a kind of way for him trying to force the principle of treat others how you would like to be treated yourself (in a BPD twisted way). He wants you to over demonstrate your affection to his perceived standards. Which probably may never be attained.

This leads you to acting less naturally you, he will sense that, which will trigger him. This is the insatiable need of BPD neediness. The hole that can't be filled.

Being you, and being proud of it, regardless, is the only way to gain any kind of stability.
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MissyM
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2014, 08:53:34 PM »

One of the things the therapists have encouraged me to say, is that my feelings are my feelings to decide.  It is not up to my dBPDh to decide my feelings.  When he tells me how I feel, I tell him that these are my feelings and he doesn't get to tell me how I feel.  Then I state how I actually feel about the situation.  I don't think this would work if we weren't working on the same issues in therapy, with all of the therapists talking. 
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GopherAgent
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2014, 09:58:21 PM »

Ah yes. The old body language means more than your words do trick!

My wife points this out to me all the time. Never mind that I have asked to have our "conversations" in other places other than always on our bed. We have our discussions on our bed and she sits on lays or sits on her 1/2 of the bead. Needless to say... . Our bed is not really a bed... . but a war zone.

Since she sits in one spot all the time for our "events", I get to hear descriptions about my "body language" as it relates to how I engage her in these matters. It's always interesting to hear how my stances and postures are always to her dominating and controlling. No matter where I stand, sit or lie in the room it is an act of domination on my part. I've tried without success to explain that since she's planted herself in the same location for our "discussions" that it's difficult for me to find a comfortable positon to be in with out standing over her or looking down on her.

I got keyed into this as I learned about BPD symptoms and how this illness makes her unable to see things clearly. Once I say a connection between her "moods" and her words, I was able to relax and realize that as long as she is unwilling and unable to change locations for out "talks" that I will always be perceived as the dominating party during these "discussions".

From my experience, it seems that anything that doesn't fit into her mold is an attack on her and her values. She can't relate... . and won't relate to reality because she's not wired that way.

waverider... . as far as not sending "mixed messages" to them... . Everything we do... . show confidence in them... . show compassion for them... . show frustration... . show anger... . etc., is met with mixed results and continued expressions of mistrust and misunderstanding on their part.

Sorry waverider... . but my "confidence" goes unnoticed by her except when she is threatened by it. When that happens... . the good things in my life get attacked and ground down to a fine gravely pulp and my face rubbed in it. Now that I know this will happen in a split second if I don't anticipate it leaves me guarded and unwilling to share my feelings and emotions because I am keenly aware that they are just a blowup and put down away, even though I have no intention or interest in hurting her.

Ah... . You've heard the old saying: "Make Love... . Not War". When you communicate like this you get to do both in the same location! What a libido booster! Or is that Libido Buster?

What a wonderful way of communicating!
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Ihope2
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2014, 11:53:08 PM »

I don't know how helpful this is, but I have found that if I sit or lie down alongside my husband (if he is lying down on the bed), we seem to have less of that "body language/facial expression over-interpretation" thing going on.  I also grew tired of standing around or looming over him when he was lying down.  I felt that I wanted to level the playing fields by mirroring his body position, it was an instinctive feeling I had.  Also, I have been growing tired of him commenting about my every facial expression, furrowed brow, head shaking, etc.  It gets pretty exhausting to be told how to stand, how to look at him, not to look away, not to shake my head etc!  So I reckon, if we talk whilst sitting or lying alongside each other, things flow a bit better... . Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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waverider
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 01:52:56 AM »

waverider... . as far as not sending "mixed messages" to them... . Everything we do... . show confidence in them... . show compassion for them... . show frustration... . show anger... . etc., is met with mixed results and continued expressions of mistrust and misunderstanding on their part.

You are correct you can't stop their misinterpretations, but your own self confidence can stop you acting in a reactive way to their interpretation, hence not feeding the escalation.
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IsItHerOrIsItMe
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 07:28:43 AM »

One of the things the therapists have encouraged me to say, is that my feelings are my feelings to decide.  It is not up to my dBPDh to decide my feelings.  When he tells me how I feel, I tell him that these are my feelings and he doesn't get to tell me how I feel.  Then I state how I actually feel about the situation.

I like this... . I'll have to try it.  I'm just not good at blindly validating yet without my uBPDw then proceeding like I told her she was correct about what she thinks I'm thinking (or feels I'm feeling in her words... . )

Maybe if I can get into the habit of validating her immediately followed by something like the above it'll sit better with me... .
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MissyM
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 08:33:27 AM »

Excerpt
Maybe if I can get into the habit of validating her immediately followed by something like the above it'll sit better with me... .

Yes, I usually start that with I see that you are upset (sad/angry), I can understand that you feel upset (sad/angry) about this.  Then state about them being my feelings.  My dBPDh's mind reading tendencies really skew things, so that is something that needs boundaries from me.  I will not have someone else dictate to me what I am feeling.
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Proud_Dad
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 09:30:13 AM »

I feel like he is putting his fears and turning them into my "feelings".

He is constantly telling me that he loves me way more than I love him. 

He wishes that I could just love him as much as he loves me.

I get this EXACT statement from my uBPDSO all the time. I have never before been in a relationship where love is a contest.

Mine also likes to use her mind reading capabilities to tell me how I am feeling. The funny thing is that she is usually 180 deg. off from what I am actually feeling/thinking at that moment. Her ability to pick up on or interpret nonverbal communication is also completely lacking, she shares this trait with her waif mother. Engaging the two of them in a conversation while in the physical presence of one another is quite frustrating but they can talk on the phone for hours without as much as a break in the conversation.

My wife points this out to me all the time. Never mind that I have asked to have our "conversations" in other places other than always on our bed. We have our discussions on our bed and she sits on lays or sits on her 1/2 of the bead. Needless to say... . Our bed is not really a bed... . but a war zone.

Ah... . You've heard the old saying: "Make Love... . Not War". When you communicate like this you get to do both in the same location! What a libido booster! Or is that Libido Buster?

I know people way this kind of thing all the time but are we dealing with the same person? My uBPDSO will go off for hours when I get home from work and then can't understand why I am not in "the mood".

UGH... .

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Happy73

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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2014, 10:32:36 AM »

It is nice to know that I am not the only one who feels like their feelings are getting mis-read.  I feel like I am constantly fighting the fact that he doesn't "feel" like I love him or love him "enough".  I really feel like his insecurities and fears cause most of this, but it is very frustrating when you feel like you are always fighting about a non issue.  I simply do not feel the way he tells me I do... . then after he keeps pushing the issue for so long it's almost like I want to feel the way he is telling me I feel because it would be SO MUCH EASIER... .  

I really hope one day I can get this "dance" down, but until then I am so glad I have a place to go and talk about this and know that I am not alone.   Thank you
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GopherAgent
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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 02:21:55 PM »

waverider... .

Thanks for the insight. I have studied this matter for a while now and I am better able to see what is happening when it happens and I am much better at understanding how I react to it when it goes off.

Yes... . Part of my walk has been to develop that self confidence so as not to continue to respond so as to escalate the situation as it got worse. I found that I was just as culpable her as she was. Since I have become aware of this as part of the circle that remained unbroken, I have responded in a more mature fashion to it. This has not totally stopped the escalation of the situation by her as she "gets into it", but it has allowed me to remain confident that I see it coming as it happens and I don't have to cave in to the onslaught of hate and rage and make it worse.

Studying this issues has made me more resilient, self aware, self controlled with an understanding how I have the power to change my reactions to all of life... . not just this madness or her rages and her hatred of me and herself.

As usual waverider... . you have a great perspective on things that is always appreciated and much anticipated.

Thanks... . GopherAgent 
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an0ught
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2014, 02:46:14 PM »

If pwBPD would be good in reading and interpreting emotions they would be almost by definition be no pwBPD as then their emotions likely would be reasonably regulated (see also second image "impaired" box here).

One of the things the therapists have encouraged me to say, is that my feelings are my feelings to decide.  It is not up to my dBPDh to decide my feelings.  When he tells me how I feel, I tell him that these are my feelings and he doesn't get to tell me how I feel.  Then I state how I actually feel about the situation.  I don't think this would work if we weren't working on the same issues in therapy, with all of the therapists talking.  

Indeed good advice - Fruzzetti's High Conflict Couple has a chapter on recovering from invalidation and it starts with "how to validate yourself". Self validation - being highly concious of our own emotions in a moment and accepting them is important when dealing with messages about ourselves that are often widely off.

What I sometimes do (provided it is not likely to trigger) is to share my own emotions by what I call "open self validation" like "I'm tired and grumpy" to build some momentary awareness and a medium term knowledge base. There is a lot of shutting down communication when things starting escalating in a relationship and even before that a lot of walking on eggshells. There are very good reasons not to in-discriminatory sharing emotions with a pwBPD as it can be obviously invalidating and triggering. In a first stabilizing phase it is best to focus on validating the other side and boundaries and keep our side for ourselves. But in the long run we want to be understood so we need to expose ourselves somehow and I found this gradual path working at least for myself.
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