Words

[FigureIt]

So my uBPDbf rages and tries to trigger me after he has been drinking. Last night he said things to try and trigger me. I was very calm and it didn't work. He jumped around to 4 different topics trying to get me to bite, but was not successful and finally went to sleep. Not to brag, but I was very proud of myself!

I know what was said are just words, but thinking about it today words do hurt. I was brought up to believe that you don't say things to hurt the one you "love".  I've said nothing to him regarding what he said today and he hasn't brought it up at all.

How do you let the words just roll down your back?

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[GopherAgent]

FigureIt... .

I'm so proud of you too! You didn't over react and you remained calm. That took clarity, understanding and strength on your part!

Unfortunately, words do... . and will always hurt. Who ever says them... . even normal and rational people say hurtful things... . they always hurt. So letting these blasts just roll off your back is never easy.

The difference now... . with you... . is that you know your uBPDbf has this "illness" and that the hurtful words WILL be said by him at any time and usually without a split seconds notice and they will always be pointed and cutting.

Seems like you are getting in "tune" with the triggers and sensing when the rages might occur so you are somewhat prepared. So now, as you see them happening, you are starting to react better. Congratulations.

So, back to your question about letting them "roll".

My experience is that they never roll off your back and that the hurt and disappointment of the things said are really never forgotten. I know that when they are said, its something that she has said repeatedly and with malice. Since these people can't talk or express themselves "normally", they say things with the intention to hurt and maim you and me. I now understand that she doesn't mean to say these things that way but that's how she expresses everything.

What I've done is come to terms with this form of communication and realize that I must not take it intentionally or at face value. Just knowing that there is a trigger... . no matter how I say it or the words spoken... . will set off the rages, allows me to step back and allow it to happen to make it worse. My choice now is how I react to this explosion. I now realize that even not reacting to it results in her attempts to say the same hurtful things. After all, its the only way she knows how to communicate.

So you continue to expect the "expected"... . the rages and the triggers. You become more focused on your responses... . the tension developing in you... . the stress level rising... . the blood pressure increases... . the anger inside you rising... . and check those things and throttle them back and learning how to remain calm and collected... . and let it blow over and end.

As these episodes happen (and the WILL!), you will become more cool, more collected, more in control of your emotions and then when its over you learn to relax some and collect the tears and dry them off and move on. You actually "find" yourself through this process and realize you have more compassion and strength that you thought you had.

No... . the words said never really roll off of you back... . You just learn that you are a decent and loving person... . If only for yourself at this point. So, FigurtIt, continue to love yourself and encourage yourself and know that there are tons of us out there that are going through the same difficult and needless arguments and rages.

Rise above it and become YOU!

Thanks... . GopherAgent

[an0ught]

Hi FigureIt,

So my uBPDbf rages and tries to trigger me after he has been drinking. Last night he said things to try and trigger me. I was very calm and it didn't work. He jumped around to 4 different topics trying to get me to bite, but was not successful and finally went to sleep. Not to brag, but I was very proud of myself!

you can be very proud of yourself. It is not easy when one is baited so persistently. It helps when one recognizes the game but it is still hard work to maneuver around the stuff being thrown at us. Keep being consistent in declining his invitation to fight. This 4 times trying looks like an extinction burst and after going through a few it often gets better.

I know what was said are just words, but thinking about it today words do hurt. I was brought up to believe that you don't say things to hurt the one you "love".  I've said nothing to him regarding what he said today and he hasn't brought it up at all.

How do you let the words just roll down your back?

It would be amazing and maybe even inhuman if it would not hurt. It was intended to hurt in that moment to get you hitting back. Knowing what is going on can take some of the edge off but it still remains an edge. Discussing his behavior will not help much and may just raise his emotional excitement when he feels guilty. He may have a hard time relating to what happened as today he feels very different from yesterday - in his mind the two are world apart. We have a less fragmented view of reality and the pain from yesterday still lingers somewhat on today.  

[FigureIt]

Thank you GopherAgent and an0ught for your replies.  I did try to distract myself from the replaying the words in my head the rest of the weekend.  I took a little time for myself, not a lot about an hour or so. 

Now this AM I changed my routine a bit to add in some exercise time.  My uBPDbf got up earlier then usual and I asked why he said "no reason" when he left he was very brief & a bit rude with me.  I texted him asking what the problem was?  The response I got was ":)on't have time to discuss... . I will not be home much this week."

I don't get it... . Actually I think I don't get it most of the time!  I always ask if there is a problem or is something wrong and the response I get is "I'm fine", "Nothing"

I feel like I'm always feeling my way through the dark and most of the time I keep putting my hand on the hot stove.

[FigureIt]

As a response to his text I replied our conversation this weekend in which I asked if he was upset with me or something was wrong and I got "No",  stated I initiated "being close" one day and asked a 2nd due to him stating I don't initiate.  And then asked what the problem was with me as of this morning.  His response was "Quite the list of what a bad person I am... . not surprising." 

Nowhere did I state he was a bad person.  I was asking him for where I miscommunicated or misinterpreted something.  I am guessing he is projecting his feelings, but I don't understand where I said he was a bad person.

[MyGreatEscape]

GREAT you were able to kind of deflect his words from affecting you so much. It's very difficult, isn't it? My BPDh's words don't "roll off my back" either... . but I, well, try to "consider the source"... . and try to remind myself that he is childish and says stuff out of flat-out childish frustration.

I have seen the look of "oh my god did I just say that?" come over his face a few times... . like he had an epiphany of how outright crude/dumb he is sometimes. Doesn't stop him the next time, but it showed me how out of control he truly is... . he really canNOT stop himself sometimes. 

My BPDh does exactly what you just posted also... . I can say/text some really benign things about something random (like, "hey, next time can you let me know you were going to the store, you just left without saying anything... . ) and he can come back with, "If I'm SUCH a monster, you should leave me."

Uuuuuuh... . say what? Who said anything about... . what? Huh?

All you can do is try again. And again... .

Sounds like you are getting a decent handle on this! 

[an0ught]

I don't get it... . Actually I think I don't get it most of the time!  I always ask if there is a problem or is something wrong and the response I get is "I'm fine", "Nothing"

There is often no solvable problem. The problem is just an illustration of an underlying emotion. In those cases validating the emotion is enough. Asking for more information in order to give support in problem solving is "not getting it", invalidating and just putting the the pwBPD under pressure.

[123Phoebe]

FigureIt,

May I ask how much your bf drinks?  Do you feel it's a problem? 

[FigureIt]

When he is out on a weekend night or has the day off the next day.  He drinks to excess.  I can not recall when he has only had 1 drink when we have been out.  Yes, I think he has a drinking problem, I have told him, but I do not think he truly thinks he does.  And it seems his friends look the other way.

[123Phoebe]

When he is out on a weekend night or has the day off the next day.  He drinks to excess.  I can not recall when he has only had 1 drink when we have been out.  Yes, I think he has a drinking problem, I have told him, but I do not think he truly thinks he does.  And it seems his friends look the other way.

Okay.  Huh.

I don't know that there's much you can do to get him to stop drinking, unfortunately. 

Where to go from here... . ?

[GopherAgent]

FigureIt... .

You sound like you are really thinking this thing through and beginning to understand how he works and how you don't have to immediately find solutions to his issues.

This is a complicated form of communication and you are coming to see its limitations.

A suggestion on how to proceed for your health's sake so as to allow you to continue to develop your skills on how to manage this. You mentioned that you exercised one morning. People exercise for many different reasons and possibly you have specific goals or benefits you wish to achieve. I've found that I've cherished the times that I've taken to build skills or exercise as a way to mark my progress in understanding this disease. What I mean is this... . when I practice my music, I find tangible and measured progress in the development of my musical skills that help me practice better tomorrow and thereafter. Even though, I see that my relationship is troubled and struggling to advance in a healthy fashion because of the limitation of my SO, I have spent time practicing a new piece or honing a difficult passage that I am trying to master so that I can see progress toward fully playing a piece at some point in the future. I find that I use this time to heal and distract myself from the abuse and anger. This time of practice... . or in you case it could be exercise... . allows me time to also cool down and relax so that when I have to go back into the fray... . I can have a different way to enter it and not get so consumed by what I know is coming from her.

In a sense... . this helps me release the desire to fix this thing immediately and allows me to deal with the realization that it my never be fixable as the madness happens. Doing something for yourself, allows you to maintain dignity and compassion, first for yourself, and also for the one you who is confronting you and making you miserable. Once I've practiced, or you have exercised, you have done something for yourself that  this person can't take away from you... . i.e... . your increased self awareness and personal growth.

Exercise your heart out... . FigureIt! OK... . maybe not literally... . but exercise to live and grow. You will see health and progress... . and find ways to not get so entrapped by all this disappointment and wasted time as well.

Good luck FigureIT... . GopherAgent

[Lilibeth]

I've found great help here. Have been battling to stay calm after the last dreadful breakdown where he said the most awful things about 'this arrangement' and 'this relationship'... . that just cut through my heart... . badly... . Then he tells me that he is not wired for being a husband, he can be a friend. The words are going round and round because he (in his good moments) and i have put in so much into this home. I really have invested a great deal of myself into this home and relationship. The thing is i always fall ill after a terrible showdown - he just drives me into it, no matter how much i try to steer away.

Have found understanding and healing here.

[montanesa]

Nice work not taking the bait! That is really hard to do.

I am a language teacher and an avid reader. Words are important to me. I have the added problem of my relationship not being in my native language, so I sometimes have difficulties. I remember being especially hurt one day when my uBPDh told me I was "ladrando" (barking at) him. I took offense because, to me, if someone says I'm barking I think they're calling me a dog. He said that in Spanish it's no big deal. (I beg to differ.)

I know I should just let the words roll off my back, but it's hard. I try to tune out or internalize my frustration.

[foggydew]

I'm a languagen teacher too, and my relationship is carried out in 2 languages. I try not to be affected by the emotional meaning of words so much, as they are so different from culture to culture. Not being triggered oneself is a really important part of dealing with people with personality disordrs and drinking problems, so, figureit, you are really well on the way!

My uBPD person is having a good phase at the moment, and is able to talk a bit about his difficulties. He tells me he has an underlying feeling of aggression a lot of the time which he only really can let out if he feels safe. Hence the baiting and verbal abuse. The drinking, he says, calms him and numbs the feelings. That's how he sees it. I think the drinking also allows these basic feelings to come out - if you are feeling aggresive, aggression will come out.

[waverider]

As you learn to deal with this better, you will learn self confidence to express yourself concisely and accurately. But first you need to observe and not be reactive.

This behavior is all about bad attitude and lack of respect. You do not need to just let it all wash and be forgotten, but you need to address it effectively. That is not biting back at individual episodes, that is what he is trying provoke.

You will learn to have the confidence to simply say you will not engage with him when this is the attitude. You do not address individual issues, this would just tempt you into JADE and away from the core problem.

When you do bring it up you do it after careful thought and at a time of your choosing.

This will avoid you feeling like a doormat while at the same time not being drawn into pointless conflict.

The words he uses mean nothing it is the attitude displayed.

[lemon flower]

I know I should just let the words roll off my back, but it's hard. I try to tune out or internalize my frustration.

hi Montanesa,

do you have a "technique" on how you "tune out" ?

I have tried it a couple of times when he was raging next to me in the car, I tried to actively focus on the view and try to not hear his words... . not easy, and when he's in front of me I wouldn't know how to tune out without him noticing it !

about "internalizing your frustration" what do you mean by that, to me it sounds not very healthy ?

[lemon flower]

and maybe another question to the members here; when it's about tuning out or healing from the wounds of painful words:

would you know some techniques on how to "erase" the most painful thoughts that were caused by these kind of insults ?

we all know we shouldn't take them too personally but since the negativity keeps ressounding in our brain it would be very interesting to use some meditation techniques to cope with it... .

[FigureIt]

Thank you GopherAgent... . I am getting myself stronger and have decided to exercise some more. Also, his negative statement about the size of my rear end are a driving factor too now... . sort of an "I'll show him"

Foggydew, I know he uses alcohol to definitely numb himself & constant thoughts. His behavior is not new, even before me there were incidents when his friends got drunken calls of "needing to back him up in a fight" and when they got there, there was no such thing. But, his friends seemed to have washed their hands of it and left it as my problem.

I agree about the negativity replaying... and I know not to let it, but it still happens. I have some friends for support and my family are wonderful.

[GopherAgent]

FigureIt.

May I help clairify something you said? You said you exercise as a "sort of an I'll show him".

Try and reverse that thought for a moment. Try and look at it from "I'll show myself".

I think if you do it to "show him", you will get frustrated and burned out on it because his complaint about you, as you will find, is always a movable marker. Let's say that your exercise "fixes" this one area of you body... . What will be his next attack area?

If you do this to "show ME", you get to control the outcome and see the results as it happens. You get to choose what you work on and how long you do it, etc. Then, you get to revel in the success of your accomplishments. When you tone that rear end, or what ever the goal is for you, you... . and you alone will always know the success and outcome of the efforts you made.

Unfortunately, THEY never seem to be able to compliment or enjoy the success of their SO's because they are so focused on their pain and abandonment, etc. that they make us (or try to) be miserable and exhausted.

No more, FigureIt... . exercise and tone up for you. You can do it! For you and you alone!

[waverider]

FigureIt.

May I help clairify something you said? You said you exercise as a "sort of an I'll show him".

Try and reverse that thought for a moment. Try and look at it from "I'll show myself".

Good point, it is your life live it for you.

[willtimeheal]

When my BPD would go off and put me down I took it to heart. It put me in a deep depression. After going to therapy and learning to deal with her and her "madness"  I became so strong, mentally. I set boundaries and I worked hard on myself in therapy to learn to like and appreciate me. I took my power back.  She quickly learned once I felt better about me and like me her words no longer hurt me. Of course they hurt and sting but you can never let a BPD know they are getting to you. They will thrive on that power. If she ever makes a jab at me now which is very very rare I remind myself that she is talking about herself. Those hateful hurtful words are being projected on to me. That is how she views herself not me. She hates herself not me. By reminding myself of that it helps me stay balanced and not take the jabs personally... . although it is difficult.

[waverider]

When my BPD would go off and put me down I took it to heart. It put me in a deep depression. After going to therapy and learning to deal with her and her "madness"  I became so strong, mentally. I set boundaries and I worked hard on myself in therapy to learn to like and appreciate me. I took my power back.  She quickly learned once I felt better about me and like me her words no longer hurt me. Of course they hurt and sting but you can never let a BPD know they are getting to you. They will thrive on that power. If she ever makes a jab at me now which is very very rare I remind myself that she is talking about herself. Those hateful hurtful words are being projected on to me. That is how she views herself not me. She hates herself not me. By reminding myself of that it helps me stay balanced and not take the jabs personally... . although it is difficult.

The ironic thing is that sometimes when they are spewing on you it is still about themselves, so when you visibly get upset they can start acting like you are stealing their emotion. This infuriates them more. This why it is an ineffective soothing mechanism for them.

Its like "join me on stage so I'm not alone"/"get off my stage your stealing the spotlight". A bully who wants to play victim.

This is why you need to find a way to step outside as you will always be in the wrong.

[FigureIt]

You are both right... . My life and I will live it!  I have decided to stop any part of my co-dependency... . I met my SO when I was getting divorced from someone who is narcissistic and was a verbal abuser. My SO "rescued me" except I've grown past the rescue and want that next evolution of a relationship where we are equals. But i think he's mad/ disappointed that I don't need the rescue.

So I need to continue living my life, celebrating life with my wonderful daughter, and dodging his bumps. If he chooses to come along that will be great, but I do have a reality that he will not, does not want to see me to enjoy life and a very possible outcome is we will part ways. I'm 1/2 way through my career and when I retire in 15 years I want to travel and live, not worry about what the next put down will be or how to avoid, counter, explain it.

The 1st step is my exercise, the next is tomorrow he will find out my ex has gone out if town and my daughter will be staying home. Last time I had to defend that her being home is good for her, which he finally agreed, but after claiming "I gave in to my ex... . " 

Tomorrow when he questions, my response "her dad is out of town, so she stays here with her mom." No explaining, no defending, no discussion. If he chooses to be pissed at me so be it.

[willtimeheal]

The ironic thing is that sometimes when they are spewing on you it is still about themselves, so when you visibly get upset they can start acting like you are stealing their emotion. This infuriates them more. This why it is an ineffective soothing mechanism for them.

Its like "join me on stage so I'm not alone"/"get off my stage your stealing the spotlight". A bully who wants to play victim.

This is why you need to find a way to step outside as you will always be in the wrong.

The hardest part is finding a way to step outside of it all.  What I find is that when my BPD is in a "mood" there is nothing I can do or say. I am in the wrong no matter what. It's almost like she sets me up for a lose lose situation. I have learned to step away at these times but it does get lonely waiting for them to find their way back to "reality."  It can be a day or two or weeks. It's exhausting.

[Cloudy Days]

hi Montanesa,

do you have a "technique" on how you "tune out" ?

I have tried it a couple of times when he was raging next to me in the car, I tried to actively focus on the view and try to not hear his words... . not easy, and when he's in front of me I wouldn't know how to tune out without him noticing it !

about "internalizing your frustration" what do you mean by that, to me it sounds not very healthy ?

Personally, I have never been able to tune my husband out while we are in the car together. He seems to save some of his tantrums for the car because he knows I am trapped in a sense. It's a really helpless feeling.

But as far tuning out, you don't have to tune out completely to not react. I try to stay focused on the conversation, unless it is getting abusive (then I walk away as much as possible). But when he starts to vent about things that really upset me then I take deep breaths, notice my emotion, remind myself of my truth and when all else fails I recite a song in my head to distract myself. Preferably not a song with a really emotional meaning to you (they tend to make me cry). When I feel calmed down enough I regroup in my head to start listening again. My husband can go on for awhile, not abusive talk necessarily just venting talk. He often likes to target my parents, this is when I usually react and a fight starts. Most other people would feel the need to defend their parents. But at this point defending just starts a bigger problem. My life has been much more peaceful since I stopped picking up the arguments. I don't think he means to make me feel bad, a lot of the time he even tells me he just has these thoughts, he doesn't know what to do with them so he vents.

For me, I needed to let go a little bit of my husband. It needs to be ok that he thinks those things of you. It's important that you know they aren't true and you don't need him to agree with you for it to be true. It was very hard for me to not take things personally for a long time. I just didn't understand how it was done. But once you get it there is no going back. I was very Codependent before and anything my husband said I just couldn't accept that he thought those things of me. I would do anything and everything to get him to change his mind, but it never worked for too long. Something else would come along and I would try and change how he felt about that issue. It really did take me wanting to leave to get a new attitude about it all. It's either living like this for the rest of my life or changing me instead of trying to change him .

To accept that he can't change how he feels about something was really a big moment for me. One of my most used Validation statements now is. "I accept that you feel that way, and I can't change how you feel, I don't like it but I can't change it". It makes it easier to not JADE. Honestly the more you let go of what he is saying, the easier it becomes to react appropriately when it's needed. Nothing you say or do is going to change his opinion, so why try, it's best to just Validate the valid.

[waverider]

Selective deafness... men have been practicing it for years, so women often claim

There are times I simply cant focus and listen even when I am trying too.

[lemon flower]

haha, yes, I know selective deafness as well, usely it overcomes me when I'm with boring people, unfortunately it's much more difficult with BPD-anger... .

I think I'll try the trick of Cloudy Days and start to recite a song in my head, or even better: maybe an indian mantra , I discovered some very soothing versions that I allready use to clear my mind and bring back the  happiness in my home after my SO left... .

[Cloudy Days]

I actually ran the song thing by my therapist, she didn't give me that tool, I think I actually read it on this site somewhere. But she said that it was very skillful on my part to do.