Would like comment on communications via email

[formflier]

In person I am rarely allowed to get a point across or communicate to the family.  This email was sent to my wife and kids to explain why I left.

below starts the email

I made a choice to leave church this morning rather continue a conversation that was unproductive.  I made the offer multiple times to discuss this or any other subject later in private.  

This morning I was asked some financial questions which I attempted to answer.   I do understand and acknowledge that XXX (and possibly others) find my explanation that I have been allowed to give (to this point) lacking.

The responses that I received  that led me to stop participating in that discussion (in regards to finances) were that I hadn't given any response or a response that my issues with Lex and sleeping were due to wanting to hide or not deal with finances.  In my mind they are separate issues.  My desire is to be able to fully explain, discuss and make a plan on how to deal with all these issues.

Others are welcome to have different opinions... . I would like to have my own opinion.

My opinion... . and therefore my reality, is that I answered that the money came back from some of my Georgia business dealings.  I acknowledge that this is a quick answer to a situation that is rather complicated and from a business sense is not doing well.

I am happy to find a time that works for any and all in my family to discuss this subject.

Some of the times that don't work for me are as follows.  This list is not meant to be a comprehensive list... just a good guide to get started.

1.  When I have just woken up and I'm trying to deal with pain in my back and deal with not having a good night of sleep (for whatever reason).  

2.  Time when it is obvious that another subject or multiple subjects are desired to dealt with at the same time.  

3.  Time when a dog is a few feet from me whining and barking.

4.  Time when the house is loud and we are trying to meet a deadline to go somewhere.

Times that do work for me.  Again, same comments on this not being a comprehensive list.

1.  A time that has been mutually scheduled and the subject is known.  This will help me prepare for the discussion and increase the possibility of a good result.

2.  Time when there are few distractions to the conversation.

3.  Time when the parties to the discussion can stay in the room where the conversation is going on.

4.  Time when parties to the conversation are calm and able to discuss a subject with voices normal in tone and volume.


I would guess that everyone in the family has noticed that I have been making choices to leave a situation I deem unproductive and/or hurtful.  I am not making these choices to be hurtful or make "statements".  I have a responsibility to others and myself to NOT put myself in a situation where I have reacted badly in the past or it is reasonable to assume I may react badly in the future.  I am more than willing to have conversations about this with the family as a group or with anyone individually.  See the guidance above to sort through how to go about that.

If ever in doubt... . just ask

"Is now a good time to talk about  xxxxx... . "?  I promise a response and it is likely that we can have a conversation.

If it is not a good time then I will help guide you on finding a time that is mutually acceptable.

I want to discuss things with others in my family.  I want to let others express their opinion and I want to express my opinion as well.  

I love all of you guys... . 

Daddy

[formflier]

here is the reply... sent to everyone ... it was a reply to all  (note... she is always involving kids... asking their opinion about my "misbehavior"




Yoir dad walked out if church this morning bcse I asked him to gv me a kiss on the cheek and he refused. A woman he works with who I blve ur dad is investing too much time and effort into building a friendship with was sitting a pew behind us when he refused to give me a kiss. Your dad got up and walked out. So his female friend did not see a husband lovingly kiss his wife... . she saw a husband angrily  walk out on his wife... . that was the impression your father chose to leave her and everyone else there with. Formflier you sent a mass email to our children giving your side of events... . so I am forced to respond as well with what happened... . lets please in the future leave the children out this.

[formflier]

and below is my response.  Please let me know if I "invalidated" if I was not clear... etc etc.

I have no interest in arguing until I win... . I want to speak my side... . and move along.  Otherwise... . my kids will her my wife run me into the ground and I would have to "argue" to get my point across.

Thoughts?

response below



When I choose to leave a family event I believe it is proper to let everyone know why.

I have a different view of why I choose to leave church today.  I would also submit to everyone that I would like to be in charge of my feelings and my reasons for doing things. 

I do understand that some level of discretion is required and appropriate for family discussions.  I am trying to exercise that at this point. 

Broadly speaking I left because I don't and won't respond to demands and threats.  Do this... or else something will happen. 

I requested that the conversations and actions happen later.  I indicated that I would be more than happy to work through this later. 

For whatever reason the unwanted conversation continued.  I elected to leave rather than to continue this. 

I would expect in future situations that I will make similar choices.  I see no benefit to anyone in continuing an unproductive conversation.

I love all you guys.

Daddy

[formflier]

Last thoughts... . I was not angry.  I did walk about and she followed talking the entire way.

See some of my other posts for maybe the complete story.

Quick version is she was rubbing my neck and head in a sensuous way and did not ask for a "little peck" on the check.  Her first request was for a "good kiss".  The then told me to kiss her or the marriage was over.  That is when I left.  There was some baiting that I ignored between the first request and the threat... but it was just random button pushing... . I'm guessing trying to get me to react.


She has never in 20 years touched me in that manner in church or requested a kiss. 

I was clear that I would do this later.

We are one day into this lady being the newest threat to the marriage... at least in my wife's eyes.

there is NO basis in fact for my wife to suspect me of anything.

She uses her previous accusations as the rationale for the current accusation.

[formflier]

OK... so I have put xxx's in the spots that had names.  A bit more history... . I've been told we were divorcing or asked for separations many many times... . it blows over afer her dysregulation passes.

My plan at this point is to stop responding to this email chain.  Otherwise I think it would be continuing an unproductive argument.  I believe I have been clear that the reason I didn't comply was that there was a threat that the marriage was over if I didn't do something.

However... . I'm looking for feedback from those with more time studying this disorder.  Was I clear enough? 

The basic principle that I am trying to enforce is that I should not keep repeating myself... . that if I do then I am helping her stay in a bad place. 

Thoughts?

Oh yeah... . if posting actual emails with the XXXs like I have done is bad protocol... please let me know.  I'm new... and was hoping to get advice on an actual real life issue.

I have 1 week until our next marriage counseling appointment.






email 1


If by saying that in future situations you expect to respond the same way you are telling me that in church in front of your coworker and friend  xxxxxx u will refuse to kiss your wife on the cheek if i ask, then i will hv to respond to this innapropriate  behavior and file for legal seperation. Any friend of yours should be happy to see you lovingly kiss your wife... . anyone this wld make uncomfortable in any way is NOT your friend and the relationship is innapropriate. I said to u in Church that i hv a surprise for friday night... . you asked what it was and I said gv me a kiss and i will tell you... . and u refused. xxxxx you are choosing her over your wife and children if you refuse to kiss me in front of her bcse it wld make her or u uncomfortable... . if thats not why u wld not kiss me then we wld all like to know why... .   If you continue to refuse to show me affection bcse of your relationship with another woman then I ask that you move in with your parents and we will legally seperate.

email 2

If you plan to continue to refuse to kiss me in front of xxxxx then please move in wih your parents tommorrow before I get back home.

[Moselle]

Formflier,

That's a tough thing happening to you. I've also had the divorce threats, but after three or four times, they lose their power don't they? I think they have learned which buttons they can push to make us angry, and they push them again and again.

I think it's best not to put stuff in writing to them. They seem to hold to it, and recycle it if it's negative, and they also have it forever. A face to face talk is probably more appropriate and easier to recover from.

If you want to put something in writing, perhaps validate her, so she can read that again and again. I know that's easier said than done after she's just threatened divorce, and mine calls it "fairy talk", but someone has to lead, and believe me it won't be them.

[formflier]

 

Interesting take on this.

I do see the point about them having it forever... . and that is why I wanted to lay out clear options and clearly state why I did something.

I realize that they will twist this... . but if it ever comes up again instead of arguing about it... . we can reference exactly what I said in an email.

Because the talks that we have... . well... after a day she has her version and I have my version. 

[Chosen]

Hi formflier,

I'm sorry that you're having a tough time.  I agree with what Moselle said that perhaps putting things in writing isn't the best method- remember, you can put words on paper but you cannot put emotions or your tone of voice.  And they ARE going to read this and imagine you're being condescening/ angry/ mocking.  I have experienced this countless times to know that you will never come up on top of it.

Have you had a chance to read the Lessons on your right?  One thing we learn here is not to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, and Explain) your actions to a pwBPD.  Those all sound really invalidating to a pwBPD, and even if you're making perfect logical sense, they won't be having any of it.  I think it's definitely worth reading it.  In your case, "stating" something in writing just sounds like you're writing a whole lot of reasons why you're right and your pwBPD isn't.  I have also tried this countless times, and what you write will be used to attack you.

I know you believe that writing things down makes things clearer, but actually, pwBPD interprets things whichever way they want, and you really don't want to go into details when arguging with them because you will get caught up in the little things (e.g. "This word you used was insulting to me" "No I was merely trying to tell you that... . " and the actual topic will be lost.

I hope you'll take some time to read the Lessons, particularly articles under Point 4.  I hope they'll help you.  Take care.

[formflier]

 

Interesting.  I need to reread the lessons... . I have skimmed those quickly.

I guess what I am debating or thinking of is saying nothing or "JADEing" once... . if you want to call it that.

What I have thought was reasonable or appropriate is to give one clear statement... . and let that hang there.  Don't re explain or explain why you made a statment or decision... . just do it and move along.

Otherwise... if there is no communication whatsoever... . that seems odd.

Also... this was sent to everyone in the family.  Because I either need to get them all together when wife isn't around... . or announce to everyone at once. 

Right now I am only one that is aware of BPD.

I am certainly hoping to draw contrasts for others in the family about my communication style vs my wife's when she is dysregulating.

Still... . I see the point about handing over ammo... . and it being there forever.

Lots to think on.

Please keep comments coming.