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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: A new twist on heartless  (Read 368 times)
Pecator
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« on: April 22, 2014, 07:30:28 PM »

Okay, so we are in very LC. I hadn't seen nor contacted her in weeks. The last contact went well. We kept it very superficial and was a step in the right direction. I even began to see how you all have helped me to grow. The love-bond was gone. I did not see her in the same way... . the trauma bond, however, was a different story! At least then I knew what I needed to heal.

So, very very limited contact. And any contact needs to be superficial. I sent her a text asking if I could leave a box on her curb for recycling the next day (I rent a garage next-door which made sense when we were together). That went down hill really fast (on both sides). My T made it clear that NC is the only way forward. She has the capacity to turn this into a legal issue even though I have never said even a strong word to her.

So I began to try to build the strength to go NC. Saturday I emailed her to say I too see how even the superficial issues lead us down the wrong path. I was going to be busy this weekend, but if she would allow, I would like to send one more email this week to say goodbye. For the first time in three months, she decides to call me and wants to settle everything then. I convinced her that it was not fair for her to call me out of the blue and demand me to be emotionally ready (thanks bpdfamily!). We agreed to talk later in the week.

This next part was me... . totally me forgetting everything I learned here. I figured, given our conversation it would be a great opportunity to preface our final communiqué by offering insight into my struggles psychologically as an apology and assurance that I don't see our breakdown being totally on her. I copied the email to my sister who said the email was lovely, polite, but utterly stupid (I should have asked advice from here first). The phone call sent me spinning and I was up all night. Still, I was validating, kind and very vulnerable in offering what I brought to this.

She responds with, "Relax, stop worrying." And then continues, "I need to stop communicating out of respect and a love that is growing with <replacement> .  I need stability and closeness and vulnerability. He is finally showing me the latter."

Big trigger... .

I responded with something about stability coming from within. And I may have actually said "I only hope you offer your vulnerability as much as you prey upon his." I am weak.

Monday, I go to an out of the way place just to regroup. It is a resort/spa where we used to go together just to get away without leaving the city. I sent her an apologetic email that was open and honest. I tried desperately to use S.E.T. But that is hard. I just reread the email and see where I failed.

As I finished the email sitting in the bar, she suddenly appears. She doesn't see me and proceeds to the spa. I pay my bill and leave. Hours later, I get an email claiming that the email I sent was "nasty and hurtful."

Here's the real kicker

I find out today that her father had a heart attack and is in the hospital. It happened Sunday. I get that she might want to take a spa day to gain the strength to be with him in the hospital. But he and I were close. I spent many days hanging with him without her because we were friends. Last year, her brother had a freak accident that almost killed him. I spent so much time with his recovery. My profession is in this area. I not only have professional skills, but a personal passion for those I grew to love.

Now I cannot even tell her I know (from mutual friends) because she will go off on me stalking her.

Dear god, NC is not just keeping her out of my life, but giving up on anyone I learned to care for while we were together.

It is so hard!
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Pecator
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 08:25:43 AM »

I can't even let her know I know.

I guess I have to let the entire family go as well.
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heartandwhole
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 08:28:09 AM »

Hi Pecator,

I give you credit for maintaining LC while trying to detach, that can be very hard.    

It sounds like you are upset about her father, are you thinking of reaching out to him?  

It's understandable to be anxious about a reaction from her, but why would you have a conversation with her about how you found out?  He is your friend, so you have every reason/right to know what is going on with him.

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When the pain of love increases your joy, roses and lilies fill the garden of your soul.
Pecator
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 08:46:20 AM »

When ever I tell her I know something about her life, it triggers her.

She will accuse me of stalking her or demand exactly how I found out. If I tell her she could split the mutual friend which he doesn't deserve.

I feel like I cannot make any contact or know anything about his condition without triggering my ex. I do not have the right to know because she feels I have no reason to know.
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Calm Waters
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 08:47:58 AM »

I considered maintaining a relationship with my BPD ex's brother, however blood is thicker than water and it was made very clear to me that the whole family was out of reach to me once i was painted black. Despite your feelings i cant help thinking you need to go NC with the whole family or you will be considered as being deliberately dividing loyalties - good luck
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winston72
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 12:59:54 PM »

Hey Pecator... . sorry for this ongoing disruption and pain.  It is quite unpleasant. 

The purpose of NC is to provide you with the emotional space to stabilize, recover and heal.  It does seem like the summary statement, "Attachment leads to suffering, detachment leads to freedom" applies to you with your ex.

Contacting her father concerning his health does not constitute stalking her, nor is it inappropriate.  Whether or not you contact him should be based on your own criteria, not what you perceive her reaction might be.  The guiding principle for you is your own recovery and health.  If contacting him creates too much anxiety for your concerning her possible reaction, than this might be your best course of action.  As you move away from this relationship, your choices will be less and less determined by how you think she might react to anything.  It is not relevant... . except as it concerns how any of this might affect your growth.



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Pecator
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2014, 06:01:20 AM »

Thanks Everyone,

HW, I do have the right to know. He is/was my friend. He is such a simple man. It really is his charm. I took a picture of him at a family party that everyone says captured him completely. I so understood him. We would share a glass (or two) of rye together. He never like the "wine-drinking" men my ex used to date (i never told him that I drink wine when not with him Laugh out loud (click to insert in post))

CW That is my biggest fear. Not just that my ex will freak if she finds out I know. She will. But also, my replacement spent the holidays with the family. I have no idea what my ex told them about me to make that happen. So it is not just her reaction to my knowing, I have no idea how the family would react.

Winston is right, I have to focus on my healing and growth. I battle daily against my nerves and C-PTSD. Once again I am trapped and powerless. There are several fears that I have to deal with.

1) she will split her neighbour who out of kindness and concern mentioned it to me. He is an old "salty" ship captain who takes pride in protecting my ex. He and I were close. I performed the wedding for he and his wife two years back (she is a nurse with all the inside info). He really does like to protect her. Yet she would definitely split him if she knew he told me.

2) Her son still texts me. We will hang out this weekend and do something fun. But he never mentioned his grandfather. Of course at 15 these are not things to text about. And he is gratefully loyal to his mother, downplays the role of the replacement, but protects her. Not sure if he is fully aware of what is happening, is being typical 15 and just not talking about it, or has some awareness that I shouldn't know.

3) Not sure what the family thinks. Not sure what was said to rationalize how we spent the holidays having a great time and then two weeks later she is in love with my recycled replacement.

4) Could see this all becoming my fault. This could be at the core of her issues. She is not actually his biological child. Her mom had an affair and got pregnant with her. He raised her as his own, but there was always this unspoken ambiguous reality. She said she would never pursue the facts until he was gone out of respect to him. These thoughts must be in her mind now.If I pop on the scene, there could be stress and God forbid, if something happens, I could see this coming at me.

So I guess as Winston reminds, I need to focus on my healing. I think it has so much stress that I should rely on my faith and just offer prayers.


Again, this really sucks






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winston72
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 10:27:26 AM »

Hey Pecator... . thank you for the comprehensive reflection on your thoughts and feelings.  It is a productive way to keep gaining clarity and strength.

When I read your post I see something that I did while in the midst of the relationship with my ex and in my life now.  The sources of stress that you itemize are all about how others will react... . and react to something quite benign, the fact that you know something that is not a secret (her father's illness) and that you care.  What is missing from the scenario is what you want, how you feel about his illness, how important it is to you to contact him... . and how it is just and fair for others to have to adapt to you.  And, I must stress here that I am very frequently paralyzed and control by my fears that are similar to yours... . so I am not saying that you should flip a switch and just do something... . but the absence of your sense of self in the summary of your sources of anxiety is worth considering.

Here are some alternate views and courses of action for you:

1) This salty ship captain is certainly capable of dealing with some basic facts and not be bullied by her.  Or, just ask him if he minds you calling her dad and, if asked how you learned, saying that he told you.  Ask him.  Explain why you are asking. 

2) No need to put the son in an awkward spot... . carry on as described here!

3) This raises concerns about your ex, not you.  In any event, you care about the dad, so call him.  If asked about what happened between the two of you, either demur and say it is private and that you care about all of them but it is awkward to continue to relate... . be discreet but honest. 

4) Okay... . so don't raise any of this.  Just pay your respects and move along.  You are not responsible for the unresolved drama within her family.  It is not your problem, not your responsibility. 

Or, just move along and leave this behind you... . and that is a fine choice also.  But, there seems to be a whole lot of fear and anxiety that might be out of proportion to the actual circumstances.  And it might not be worth challenging these things now... . better to stand aside, reflect and heal.  That has been my posture over the past year.

Apologies if this is a bit rambling... . I am, of course, talking to myself as much as I am to you!

Keep posting and processing... . you are tapping into some good stuff here.
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Pecator
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2014, 04:45:44 PM »

One step forward, two back!


I can't believe this. I had a tough session with my T today. She can be very brutal to push my stubborn butt. She kept at me. "Why? She doesn't want you in her life. Her dad is part of HER life.!" She pushed until I broke down and had to admit that even if it is only a small portion of seeing him is because I haven't let go of my ex, that small part is what is killing me. Of course he and I were friends, but there are many reasons why I didn't need to contact him. I am a man of faith. I can pray for him. I am N/C, but still want to know about her. I need to focus on that.

I walked out of the session with less nerves and more hope than I have had in weeks.

THEH! I volunteer at a hospice. I got a call from our ED. Her grandmother is in critical care. The next 24 hours are crucial. Would I mind going to visit her. No sh!t. But nerves are not out of control. I was thinking of Winston's words, "be discrete and honest." It is a huge hospital. The chances of running into them were slim. At most, perhaps a sibling at the exit or or parking lot.

Suddenly, I exit the elevator and hear "Pecator?" Not only was it her, but her boys too. Her youngest jumps me from behind to push me. He has that smile that is not a usual part of his 15-year-old, sulky demeanor. She looked great, but the love goggles are off and I feel no pull towards her. Her boys on the other hand, I miss them so badly.

She kept it very superficial. My dad had a "bit of a heart attack." I was reminded how she keeps everything superficial to maintain her control. I could see all the manipulative qualities come through. She knows I know his medical history. He had a severe heart attack in his forties and could not work much there after. He is very lucky to have made it to his seventies. As well, his inability to work created great hardships in her family.

"Had a bit of a heart attack" There is no such thing in his case. She can minimize and normalize any situation. I kept my cool, asked factual "superficial" questions about prognosis and such. I asked if she wouldn't mind letting me know how he is. She said she would.

FULL DISCLOSURE

In order to be healthy, I have to be honest. The part that my T pushed me to face was there. I did my visit and it was actually feeding to me. Visiting with someone who was grateful for my care. But my visit was on the fourth floor. I ran into my ex on the second. I never ran into anyone in the two hours I was there. I thought if I knew where he was, I could contact her and tell her that I was at the hospital and "accidentally" noticed he was there. I hoped to use it to safely get information. I wondered every floor.

Damn my T, she is right. That 'small part' isn't so small. It is killing me. That and missing those boys!

I felt so good just before this. I stopped at the nearest pub to have a beer, type this, and calm my nerves.


So much more work to do.

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seeking balance
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2014, 05:09:36 PM »

Damn my T, she is right. That 'small part' isn't so small. It is killing me. That and missing those boys!

Pecator - so miss them... . it is ok to miss someone we loved even if the relationship was not good or lasting.  This is the fundamental emotion of grief - sadness.

Cry it out, feel it, let it flow so you can let go.

Peace,

SB

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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2014, 07:43:52 PM »

I felt so good just before this. I stopped at the nearest pub to have a beer, type this, and calm my nerves.


So much more work to do.

You know... . its going to end in your head at some point. At some point you are going to let her go and give yourself the space to find someone new... . better then ever with her own special things and ways... . You can accept reality for what it is... . or you can torture yourself with why did this have to happen to me for a long long time. Peace and calmness rests inside the space between your ears.
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Pecator
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2014, 12:05:51 PM »

I sent her an email attaching the original request for me to be there. I am still gun shy at over the lengths she will stretch things and make accusations.

She replied with news about her father. It is the exact minimizing and normalizing that can trigger me, so I thought I would let you have a read before i respond


"Hi... . don't worry about it all. Strange coincidence .  My dad has a test in the morning that will tell a lot. He probably is not up for many visitors.  I think he will need a bypass surgery. You looked shocked to see us. It was all fine.  Thanks for the kind thoughts."

It all sounds so normal, if you over look all the subtext. "morning test" means I don't want to tell you anything about when, how, what the prognosis is. "Probably not up for visitors" puts my not visiting on him. "you looked shocked" I am the crazy one because seeing her unexpectedly unnerves me. "Thanks" as though I was a co-worker.


Maybe it is all normal and I there is no reason for this to upset me
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winston72
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 12:12:13 PM »

Hey Pecator... . normal can feel shocking after a season of truly shocking behavior!  The change of pace/push-pull dynamic is really disturbing.  You are not crazy.  Your inner world is probably a bit jumbled, unsettled, on alert.  Perhaps it is a time to keep on pace with the steps of detachment... . acknowledging what you are really feeling (as you are doing in your posts here!), self-inquiry and processing.

As painful as it is, and I know it truly is, the detachment and distance that you are feeling from her can help you to keep moving along in your own detachment. 
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seeking balance
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 12:24:45 PM »

"Hi... . don't worry about it all. Strange coincidence .  My dad has a test in the morning that will tell a lot. He probably is not up for many visitors.  I think he will need a bypass surgery. You looked shocked to see us. It was all fine.  Thanks for the kind thoughts."

Maybe I am jaded, but this looks designed to push your buttons.

"My Dad has a test" - pull

"Not up for visitors" - push

"you looked shocked" - pull

"all fine" - push

"thanks for the kind thoughts" - pull


Maybe it is all normal and I there is no reason for this to upset me

It is not all normal and it is reasonable you have emotions around all of this... . no need to discount yourself.

The only way to really "win" is to not play the game.  As Winston suggested,  your feelings and processing them is the focus for your detachment.

I know this all hurts 
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winston72
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2014, 04:41:27 PM »

Ah, SB you got this one right. After reading it all over again I think those pug/pull dynamics are full-on in that exchange as you summarized. I tend to think my ex could snap to normal and leave me behind. There is no snap to normal. The same destructive dynamics are fully present in even that brief exchange.
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Emelie Emelie
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« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2014, 04:47:02 PM »

The purpose of NC is to provide you with the emotional space to stabilize, recover and heal. 

Thank you Winston.  I've never quite thought of it like that before.  I think of it as "protecting myself" and not allowing myself to get sucked back in, hurt and disappointed.  This definition helps.
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Pecator
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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2014, 08:42:10 PM »

Yeah SB,

You were exactly right.

She is an intelligent person and a good writer. One thing that bothered me was that her emails seemed so... . ? I didn't know what.

She would have one sentence about her dad's condition. Then the next would be something arbitrary. then next sentence back to her dad. The very next sentence was something else arbitrary.

You hit the nail right on the head. It helped me see them more clearly. I was able to detach from them, work on my S.E.T and we were able to communicate all weekend with updates about her father.

The condition was bad, but not much to do (given his history). He was sent home Saturday. I used the best S.E.T. I had and sent her a thank-you. She sent a message back "Thank you for you kind words, thoughts and prayers."

I replied, "Kindness is what we can do."

She replied "WOW, sarcasm... . That's new."

I waited till the next evening to respond with encouraging her to believe I wasn't being sarcastic. I thanked her again for keeping me informed, and that I would not be contacting her again. But if anything came up (damn I left that hook).

A few hours later, SHE CALLED ME! She would never call me.

"Look, I don't want to sound mean or harsh, I just don't want our contact to confuse you."

WOW! Push/Pull Push/Pull

I never considered it, because she seemed so comfortable with N/C

You called that so right. You helped me see that so clearly The conversation went well actually. My being aware of this P/P dynamic and the tools I learned here (still not real good, A few times I had to tell her my throat was dry and needed some water to give me time to rephrase what I wanted to say Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)) made it my least triggered conversation ever.

Believe it or not, I actually SMILED when we hung up. I was quite proud of myself, if I may say! I could totally see the dynamics and was able to protect myself.

Don't worry Winston, I also realize how consuming contact with her is. This break in N/C is truly an exception, not the rule. By my lucky stars, this contact helped me detach. But N/C is clearly the way forward.


Of course, it fell apart the next day (I will post on SB's new thread about detaching). But today I am back to N/C

Thanks for everything everyone!



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