Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2024, 08:07:21 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
204
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: uBPD mom won't make kids do things they don't want  (Read 498 times)
pilgrim
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 256


« on: April 26, 2014, 05:15:27 PM »

I have 2 D 15 and 12 with uBPDxw, 50/50 custody.  As a general rule, I think that if children or adults only do things they want, then they will not end up happy or successful.  We need to regularly do things which we don't want to do, but that are good for us or others in the long run, a kind of self discipline.

Last summer a gastroenterologist separately told xw and myself that D (then 11) should have a gastroscopy procedure.  xw and I agreed, I put down money for a deposit, then xw refused, saying that D 11 didn't want to do it, and that "we have to convince her to want it."  No gastroscopy.

A few months ago xw and I agreed to send kids to school on Saturdays to learn xw's native language.  They had attended this school in the past and I thought it would be a good way to expand their circle of social interaction.  I made the deposit, and after one class and my kids' protests, xw decided not to cooperate with sending kids to school.

xw and I long ago agreed on limiting kids' computer time, etc, but from what I've heard they've been on all day at her house routinely.

The latest is, xw and I agreed to start up bass and drum lessons again for kids, which had stopped when we moved to CA last year.  Last night I told kids by phone about the new weekly lessons and they both started screaming hysterically in protest.  They don't want to do it, it's too expensive, they can learn on their own, etc.  But it's not like they have a full schedule of other activities, and they've already quit other instruments (piano, guitar).

I was tempted to shout back.  What I should have done was say "when you can speak to me respectfully, we can continue this conversation, otherwise I am hanging up."  (Should also have responded this way to their mom's rages beginning in early stages of our relationship, but that's another issue).

What I did instead was I laughed at their yelling, sort of to keep myself from yelling back.  That just got them upset more.  Now I realize that is how my dad treated my sisters and I, making fun of us with passive-aggressive humor and mocking.  So I think I will apologize to my kids for laughing.  But they need to be more respectful when speaking to me, not shrieking at the top of their lungs.  I know this is what they've learned from a lifetime of observing and being on the receiving end of their mom's rages.

Just needed to get this out.  Any observations / commiserations / advice is appreciated.

p
Logged
livednlearned
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 12731



« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2014, 07:53:48 PM »

I'm trying to figure out some of this stuff too.

My ex was a very heavy-handed (and abusive) disciplinarian with S12. Everything from how S12 held a fork to the way he walked. When we divorced and S12 was with me for the first year or so I had to find my footing as a parent -- S12 was 9 at the time and his nerves were shot. He was pretty emotionally fragile, and when I was stern with him it just caused him to fall apart.

I realized that some of my choices -- about what activities he should do -- were invalidating. I won't go into the long painful process we went through, but in the end, I realized that it works best if I help him find his interests, then look for ways to cultivate those interests. If I find a program that he's interested in, we talk about it. We figure out a way to make it work for both of us. For example, if he says he wants to do something, then he has to agree to go for every single session for the six-week period, or whatever it is, and can decide at the end if he wants to continue. But to even start, he needs to commit to at least the six sessions. We'll go and meet the instructor, look at the facility, see if anyone he knows is going. If he decides yes, this is what he wants, then I pay for it. As he gets older, and the things he wants to do get more expensive, I'm tempted to tell him that anything he drops out of, he has to pay the difference. He's pretty good at saving money, and has a small nest egg he's saved up, and he's very careful about how he spends his own money. I signed him up for these expensive digital media after school classes that some friends of his have been doing. A couple of times, he hasn't wanted to go. His way of trying to get out of things is to say that he feels sick. So my response is always that he needs to go for 30 minutes. If he feels sick after he arrives, I'll be hanging out at the coffee shop next door and he can come get me, and we can leave. So far, he has never done that. Almost always he feels better after the class. I keep pointing out to him, "I noticed this is one of those times where you felt sick before going, but then you went, and ended up feeling great."

I've also said to him that he needs to do at least one sport and one thing that's creative. If he can't think of anything, then he needs to spend some time doing something similar at home. So if he's not in a sport, he comes to the gym with me. If he isn't doing something creative, then he'll make stuff on his computer.

Your kids might have different dispositions than mine. But having a general rule -- pick one sport, and one creative thing -- and then giving him lots of choice, followed with a deal he agrees to, that has been the only thing that works for us. He's even started to take some initiative on his own, which is new and maybe age-related.



Logged

Breathe.
pilgrim
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 256


« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2014, 04:52:45 PM »

Thanks, lived.

Those are good points about dropping out, money, kids' interests, one sport / one creative and general rule / lots of choices.  I'm going to try to incorporate them with my kids.

Bass and drum were kids' ideas to begin with.  We worked out a compromise yesterday where kids go to one lesson to meet teachers next week, then start lessons in June after school ends.

It is a fine line we walk between too controlling / too permissive.
Logged
livednlearned
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 12731



« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2014, 06:16:08 AM »

It is a fine line we walk between too controlling / too permissive.

That is so true. I don't know about your kids, but my son has a really hard time dealing with frustration. If I ask him to do something once, twice, and then have to say a third time, and by then I'm irritated, he will go into this behavior that drives me nuts. Victim stuff. To try and get us on the same page -- me asking him to do things (knowing he's a kid, and it might take some supervising) and him doing them, I have to start off the conversation addressing the way things will go if he doesn't follow through, and explicitly say that it makes us both feel bad when this agreement falls apart, so what is he going to do, and what am I going to do. It's such an explicit way to talk to him, and sometimes I feel like I'm dealing with him like a mature toddler. Not in my tone, just the explicit description of how I will feel, how he will feel, how can we do this thing to avoid both of us feeling sad, etc. But for some reason, if I forecast how things will go if he doesn't do what I ask him to do, things go a bit more smoothly. That's only when his mood is on the low end. When he's in a better mood, he tends to do his chores right away.

I guess it's spelling out the consequences so they're really clear, even if it's just "this is how we're both going to feel." 
Logged

Breathe.
PinkieV
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 200



« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2014, 08:04:25 AM »

Lived I feel the same way when dealing with my stepson (13).  He was so used to his mom blowing up at him that if he ever felt like he was backed into a corner he would just come unglued.  I had to reach back in my memory to when my own son was 2 or 3, and learn to warn my stepson in advance, and spell things out, so that he'd know what was going to happen and what was expected of him.

I also like your suggestion that the kids commit to an initial time in the activity or class.  Pilgrim, it sounds like that's working for you.  And I'm glad you realized your behavior and apologized.  It is a very eye-opening moment when a parent apologizes to a child.

Oh, and my stepson will also complain of a headache or other ailment any time he doesn't want to do something.  My DH gave into it a few times without realizing it, and it became a VERY quick habit.  Then one day I pointed out that the boy who had a headache ate a full bag of gummy worms and was laughing and joking around with my son.  Light bulb!  Stepson had his first swim meet this weekend, and the day before complained about a stomachache.  DH said "oh, I'm sorry you're not feeling well today - you better rest up so you're good for swim tomorrow".  He was fine five minutes later! 
Logged
ennie
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married (together 6 years)
Posts: 851



« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 08:55:02 AM »

We have the same issues with my two SDs, 10 and 14.  Mom does not make them do homework, go to recitals for instruments they are learning, show up for games when they are on teams, do dishes, and so forth and so on.  We do.  This tends to result in very stressful transitions! 

We do not try to make mom different... . a losing battle.  But we stick with our guns at our house, and use a lot of love and discussion to help the kids get WHY these things matter.  I say, "If you want to live year dreams, you have to be willing to do the hard part of your dreams, too."  From my perspective, it is not just only doing what you "want" or what you "have to;" it is that what you want has some parts that are hard, boring, not that fun, and that if you really want it, it is good to build up those muscles of being able to tolerate the hard part.  The more tolerance you have for hard things, the farther you can go in pursuing your dreams. 

The main thing we do to counteract mom's pattern of never finishing anything and letting the kids do the same is to help the kids choose BIG projects that are important to them and support them all the way through.  To use positive encouragement more than scolding whenever possible.  I cannot tell you how powerful it is when I constantly say to SD14, "I know you can do it.  I have every faith in you!"  This seems to work so much better than when I yell or criticize in total frustration when she wants to play with friends instead of finishing the task she started... . (she has lots of friend time, but at 14 there is no such thing as too much time with friends!).  Just saying, "I believe in you.  You can do this!" really helps, because her role model mom has never really accomplished anything.  Both kids are really much better than their mom at follow through already, but the encouragement never hurts!
Logged

hergestridge
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 760


« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2014, 02:45:47 AM »

I don't think a certain approach to this can be associated with BPD. The BPD "problem" here is the refusal to cooperate.

I remember even before we had our daughter that I wondered how co-parenting was going to work out with this individual who is so hell-bent on having everything her way. When she realises there are other ways and approaches than her own she finds that not enlightening but disturbing, annoying and invalidating.

Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2014, 10:38:03 PM »

Why would a 12 and 15 year old be worried about what is expensive or not? Sounds like they are mirroring their mother. Have you tried using the validation techniques on them?
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
dutchie
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 370



« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2014, 07:32:11 AM »

My tip of the day would be: try and avoid discussing these things over the phone whenever possible. Could you tell them about the lessons once they arrive at your place? The kids are probably going to respond differently when you tell them face to face in your own house and in your own time. Discussing it over the phone while they are staying with their mum is a recipe for disaster really. Your kids will be in a different frame of mind at her place and she can make the most of trying to put them up against your idea for the remainder of the time they spend with her. Great for her, not so good for you.
Logged
ennie
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married (together 6 years)
Posts: 851



« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2014, 08:20:31 AM »

I think that this IS a specific BPD thing, at least for some--poor executive control is definitely an aspect of some BPD cases. 

How that plays out in our family is that mom has a really time sticking with things, a hard time maintaining a consistent enough identity to follow through.  She then wants her daughters to be like her, and her narcissistic tendencies result in her wanting to be the best, which is really tough when she is not very good at stuff.  So when her daughters are doing great at something she is not good at, she starts suggesting it is too hard for them, that they should have "choices" and not HAVE to go to the recital, not have to practice.  She really pushes hard, but from this "poor you" place, and the kids mostly cave, because it is easier than dealing with the uncomfortable feelings of having to perform, or needing to show up for things. 

We are dealing with this right now.  SD14 got her first real, part time job.  The first two weeks, she was so proud of herself, responsible, earning money, wanted to work more hours (at our house).  Third week, at mom's, she stuck with it, proud and having to walk to work because mom would not drive her. 

Third week, she called crying, saying work was too hard, why did she HAVE to do it, daddy made her, etc. 

Mom has not held down a job for more than 6 months in her life.  Usually, it is more like a month.  It is so sad to see SD14 being indoctrinated with this attitude.  But she is trying so hard to do it differently.  She lasted a whole week with her mom refusing to help, being mad at her, etc.  I think she will be different from her mom in this area, but it is painful to watch mom pull the rug out from under her. 
Logged

thinkingtooslowly

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 16


« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2014, 07:53:00 PM »

That's really sad, Ennie.

We had a similar experience with SO's uBPDex-wife last year.  SS7 was refusing to go to school for awhile last fall.  He has some anxiety, and we thought maybe that was why.  At that time, SO and ex had 50/50 custody.  We learned later that ex was having regular emotional meltdowns (also suicide threats) and SS was scared to leave her.  At the time we didn't know that though.  Throughout it all, ex kept insisting that SS was special and shouldn't have to go to school if he didn't want to, he clearly needed to be homeschooled (by her! as if!).  She wouldn't take him to school on her days, and of course, completely reinforced to him that he shouldn't have to go to school, and why was daddy making him?  This is all of course projection on her part, since *she* didn't like school and didn't want to go herself... .never once has she acknowledged that she was the cause of his distress and refusal.  Fortunately SO got primary custody shortly after that, and amazingly, school has not been a problem since!
Logged
hergestridge
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 760


« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2014, 07:28:21 AM »

The problem for us have been that my BPDw has expected far too much consistancy from our daughter. My wife has been to upset when our daughter has lost interest and made our daughter feel guilty about it.

What my wife fails to see is that the projects and activities that our daughters "fails" to follow through were mainly initiated or encouraged by my wife herself and the girl mainly said yes to please mum.

Our daughter has no problem following through things she likes to do herself, but those things mostly tend to irritate her mum because they don't give her that satisfying feeling of control.

My daughter likes to do things on her own (just like I did when I was a kid), and my wife tries to steer her towards social activities (she started doing that when she was three, now she's four) and our daughter is not really comfortable with that.

The problem as I see it is my wife's tendency force things (as opposed to enourage). She just freaks out and things become unpleasant when things don't go her way. I'm sure many of you recognize this.   
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!