Parallel Parent When Necessary

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Just after we moved out, uBPDx pushed me to stop putting a night diaper on our son, who had recently turned 4 and is still having the issue of peeing the bed at night. So I did. Got extra sheets and two absorbent pads so I wouldn't necessarily have to do laundry if he had an accident (which is about 4/5 nights).

uBPDx waifishly makes side comments about how expensive it is to do laundry and time consuming since she has to use her apartment's laundromat, unlike living in our house when it was more convenient (leaving aside that I paid the initial capital cost, repairs, water, gas and electricity).

She sent me an email yesterday saying how she started putting a diaper back on S4 at night since it was costing her too much money to do laundry and spending so much time doing extra laundry took time away from her playing with the kids. She then said that she gave him a dollar for toy money every time he woke up with a dry diaper. I think she was trying to get me on board with what she was doing.

I'm not going to do it, and I wish she hadn't told me that since now I wonder if maybe I should get follow what she is doing or if it's going to prolong his bed wetting due to the confusion if I just do what I am doing, which is no diapers at night (we have a 3-2-2-3 schedule with him and D2).

What I didn't do is respond to that portion of her email, just the school issues which were the main subject. Maybe that's passive-aggressive, but when I don't respond to things like this, she usually doesn't bring them up again. She may do it in person when I see her next Friday though. I think her excuses are just that, but I may need to brush up on DEARMAN and the like, because my instinct is to scold her like a parent.

I'm trying to be as nice as possible until the custody and child support papers are signed. The former she has no problem with, but she keeps mentioning the money, like she is going to fight me on that. Only a month or so to go and I'll feel like I can breathe again... .

All in all, I lean towards more parallel parenting after the legal stuff is out of the way (it would be better for me), but I need to focus on what's better for the kids.

[Turkish]

Just after we moved out, uBPDx pushed me to stop putting a night diaper on our son, who had recently turned 4 and is still having the issue of peeing the bed at night. So I did. Got extra sheets and two absorbent pads so I wouldn't necessarily have to do laundry if he had an accident (which is about 4/5 nights).

uBPDx waifishly makes side comments about how expensive it is to do laundry and time consuming since she has to use her apartment's laundromat, unlike living in our house when it was more convenient (leaving aside that I paid the initial capital cost, repairs, water, gas and electricity).

She sent me an email yesterday saying how she started putting a diaper back on S4 at night since it was costing her too much money to do laundry and spending so much time doing extra laundry took time away from her playing with the kids. She then said that she gave him a dollar for toy money every time he woke up with a dry diaper. I think she was trying to get me on board with what she was doing.

I'm not going to do it, and I wish she hadn't told me that since now I wonder if maybe I should get follow what she is doing or if it's going to prolong his bed wetting due to the confusion if I just do what I am doing, which is no diapers at night (we have a 3-2-2-3 schedule with him and D2).

What I didn't do is respond to that portion of her email, just the school issues which were the main subject. Maybe that's passive-aggressive, but when I don't respond to things like this, she usually doesn't bring them up again. She may do it in person when I see her next Friday though. I think her excuses are just that, but I may need to brush up on DEARMAN and the like, because my instinct is to scold her like a parent.

I'm trying to be as nice as possible until the custody and child support papers are signed. The former she has no problem with, but she keeps mentioning the money, like she is going to fight me on that. Only a month or so to go and I'll feel like I can breathe again... .

All in all, I lean towards more parallel parenting after the legal stuff is out of the way (it would be better for me), but I need to focus on what's better for the kids.

[Forward2free]

My son wet the bed until he was about 5.5/6 years old.

I kept him in overnight diapers but found when I started no diapers, no jocks and pajama bottoms, he started to feel when he needed to go to the toilet and would wake up.

He became dry himself within about 3 months of no night-time diapers.

He was and is, an extremely heavy sleeper so it was no wonder that he took longer to grow out of that phase. No amount of monetary rewards would have helped him, but the joy of waking up dry for him was really something to celebrate with high-fives and hugs.

I had an extra layer of waterproof sheets so that I could do a quick change at night so none of us were disrupted for long.

It does seem uBPDx in your case wants you to start parenting in her way again. Hopefully your son becomes dry on his own soon and you won't have to worry about the ongoing conversation with uBPDx much longer.

[Turkish]

He is a heavy sleeper, like his mom. Thanks for the idea of no bottoms. I'll try that. If it starts to work here, but not there, I may pass it along. I made an exception when we went out of town this weekend, since we were sleeping in a guest bed. Took the kids for their first swim. Yet another milestone their mom missed out on... . I did make MD cards for their mom and her mom,.as much as I could get a barely 4 year old into it. We called her this morning, too, an exception I made for this day. She thanked me in a wistful voice, then my buddy who went through something similar 15 years ago said he used to get that too, so I don't make much of it. Gotta get rid of those lingering 

[Aussie JJ]

I got painted black after mothers day due to a variety of issues.  I think that one is important for my son.  It was a big thing for me doing the correct thing for him and getting him to say happy M':)ay at drop off. 

I drove around the corner and hated myself for that.  Then realised its a positive story for our son and got over it. 

I don't know the correct answer to your Q.  Just do what is correct by the kids.  For me, I do that and I am happy with myself.   

[froggy]

Turkish

For the night time thing have you tried getting him up to pee in the night?

I use to keep a potty in the room and put them on it when I went to bed and again at about 4am if there was still an accident in the morning.

Did the no pants thing too... does work.

[slimmiller]

You are probably doing exactly what you need to do for now. While I understand your desire to do the parrallel thing, you probably need to hold off till things are final from a legal angle. If not, she may disregulate and further complicate things.

My kids all were rather easy to not have a diaper on at night. I remember as a kid, a few of my siblings had much more difficulty with it. So in that aspect, I cant offer much.

As far as the parrallel parenting, mine is adamently trying to establish dialogue and involve herself more again with the kids by asking where we are going on vacation (I told her kids and I will be out of town for Memorail day weekend. Its my weekend with the kids) She even went so far as to ask if we need snacks and drinks for the trip, where we are going precisely, if we want to use her car etc. etc.  I did answer her in ' we are going West' I have family that way and she knows.

I steadfastedly refuse to ingage but rather answer short, to the point answers. Anything more leads to an invariable argument of some sort and is completely futile. We are 50/50 custody and last real convo I told her we discuss logistics for the kids and nothing else.

We kind of arrived at the current way of parenting after she went ahead and had my daughter baptized with out my consent or input (I do not agree with her religion, that in and of itself is a story a mile long) My input to her is completely useless and in return, while the kids are with me, her input is of no vlaue to me. Maybe thats wrong but it is the only thing that works at the moment. Maybe it will change in the future but this way is way easier

While I am not advocating this to anyone necessarily it may be something to consider but not until things are final and on paper. In my case she already wanted me to give her the ok to move across the country with the kids IF she so chooses (her current bf is moving to the west coast) I refused because she is proposing I give her the kids for six month straight and then I get them for six month. Wont happen because the papers dont allow it and since its on paper, I have something to hold onto to. If it was still only a verbal (and not on paper) it would be futile on me trying to enforce it

So its important to get it on paper and have it clearly stated before you try to enforce boundaries much  I Think

[crystal]

Bedwetting is completely normal at his age, and may go on for a while. The most important thing is that your son feel good about himself.  First, reassure him, this is normal and he will grow out of it--maybe soon, maybe not. And why not let him have a say?

"Son,  Staying dry at night will happen.  In the meantime, do you have a preference on how you sleep? Do you get a better nights sleep in pullups (or whatever "big boy word you use for diapers) or waking up when the bed gets wet and doing a quick change?"

If he wets most nights, I bet you all will be happier if he wears diapers at night for a while longer... . If he is dry most nights giving him an option is reasonable. 

[david]

My xBPDw was a freak about getting the kids out of diapers. When she left we had a boy that was 4.5 years old and still wet the bed. Ex had children from her first marriage and I was in fog and thought she was a great mom back then so I figured she knew better than me. I took son to the pediatrician for a regular check up after ex left. I told the doc about bedwetting. He said it was no big deal to remain in diapers until he stopped or started to stop. He said some kids wet the bed until they are much older. He said he would be more concerned if son were in first or second grade. I followed docs advice and made no issue of it. Ex tried to make it an issue with me and I said nothing and let her think I was doing what she wanted me to do. I believe she talked to our son about it. Well, eventually he stopped wetting the bed. From what I could figure back then ex made a big deal about it when he was with her. He stopped wetting the bed months (at least 6 months) before he stopped at her place. I figure he felt pressure from her or it was simply a way of fighting back from her constantly making a big deal about it. I was seeing a T back then too and she helped me see what ex was doing to me and how I was reacting. I learned to stop reacting, to detach emotionally, and parent the way I thought best. That was in 2008 or 2009. Just to let you know, I still get emails, not as many, from ex trying to tell me what I am doing wrong with the kids and what I should be doing. I read the email and put it in a folder.

[Turkish]

Thanks for the input, crystal and david.

I think I am still having anxiety because in the back of my mind, I think she knows better, since she "raised" her younger siblings. On logistical baby issues, yes, she did (despite many hyper-protective things I observed, and some odd supersitions that were both culture-specific, and anxieties she got from her mom), and I learned from her. From here on out, I think I need to step back. S4 sleeps like a log, like his mom. D2 is like me: light sleeper, needs less of it, and is an instant riser (she is emotionally as well: very controlled, sometimes even stoic, but very happy all the same). He wet my bed last night, and I tried to get him up in the middle of the night and he wouldn't budge. I just moved the baby, who sleeps between us so she doesn't fall off,  back to her crib in their room and slept on the edge of the bed away from him. They refused to sleep in their own beds last night.

I spent the morning with their mom and the kids (for emotional protection, and besides, I want to spend every extra minute I can with them) going to some local schools to investigate kindergarten and preschool. She brought the diaper thing up again, since I never responded to that part of her email. She said she gives him a dollar every time he awakes with a dry diaper, and that he had two dollars already (already? It's been almost 3 weeks). I think I will take your advice and start putting the "night diaper" as I told him, back on, to go back to co-parenting. It bugs me because she was the one when she first moved out that said we shouldn't put diapers on him at night, so I went along with it, when I saw nothing wrong with continuing the night diapers at the time. She's still a   in my head about some things (and that's all me), I and I just need to do what I feel I need to do.

So thanks, back on the diapers, and let him do it until he stops. I'm seeing the T next week. I'll get some advice from him on that as well.

[david]

"I think I am still having anxiety because in the back of my mind, I think she knows better, since she "raised" her younger siblings."

My ex had kids from her first marriage and I could have said the same thing years ago. When ex first left I was scared for our kids.

Today I have a great relationship with two of my stepsons. We vacation together, they call, we do things together with their stepbrothers, etc. One is total NC with their mom. The other is LC with their mom. Another has a serious substance abuse issue and has no relationship with anyone but his mom. I believe she is enabling him because she "needs" someone on her side.

Within the last week one of my SS's called to talk. It started like a typical conversation that we have. It turned into him thanking me for making his teen years normal. He went on about how I gave him confidence in himself and I was the only one that did that. I was floored at first and just listened. He said a lot of really nice things and brought back memories of things I haven't thought about in a long time. My ex knew how to change diapers better than me, she is a nurse and felt more comfortable knowing how to spot a sick baby quicker than me, she knew the mechanics of "raising" kids. The difficulty ex had was seeing each kid as an individual and learning to listen and guide each one with their own particular needs. Each one of the ss's and sons are different. Ex treated them all the same when they were younger and I see her trying to treat our 15 and 11 year old basically the same now.

We are going through a custody eval now. It's the first time in years that we were in the same room together. I am very detached at this point. The evaluator talked to both of our boys. The next meeting we had the evaluator taked about some of the things the boys said. He mentioned some things about S15 and asked us both questions. When ex was asked first she had nothing. I was able to talk about it and also explain where I think he was coming from. Ex then countered saying basically what I said in a slightly different manner. He then turned his questioning to S11. Ex had nothing when she went first. The evaluator switched it up and I went first sometimes. I had no difficulty in either case. S11 has a keen sense of humor. Ex has no sense of humor and her replies to some of the questiones shouted that out. He is only 11 so his vocabulary is that of a young boy.He uses words that he knows to describe ideas that he doesn't know the words to yet. I easily explained what he meant and the evaluator nodded in understanding. Ex had nothing. I gave examples of things he has done with me to show that I had some basis for my reasons. The boys talk to me a lot and everything that was discussed in that room basically verified what they had been telling me. I get them and they get me. That is by my definition a family. EX has two boys living with her that she feeds and has sleep there.

The evaluator actually asked the boys to describe a typical day at their dads and at their moms. He thought it was significant that their typical day at their moms did not include their mom. The light bulb went off in my head because that is what they have been describing to me for quite some time. I heard what they were saying before but when an outsider pointed it out it really said a lot more than I realized. Stay focused on your kids and learn to detach.

Everyone makes mistakes in raising kids and I have made many. I learn from my mistakes and keep moving forward. I also have no problem apologizing to them if I do something boneheaded. Both boys are comfortable talking to me. They tell their mother little about their lives for fear of getting her upset because of the cost that goes with that. My T said to focus on what I think is important. The first thing that I thought of was I wanted them to trust me so they could come to me when good things happened and when bad things happened.  I concentrated on that for a long time. Eventually I had their trust and things improved drastically after that. It is just natural for us now yet they are very guarded when with their mom.

[Turkish]

Thank you David. That is an uplifting story. It sounds like things will go well for you and your kids. I hope I get mine to sign the custody and CS papers soon. At least she is cognizant enough of herself to realize I am the stable influence in their lives, and she us fearful of being a bad mom (that shame and insecurity). Two comments she made in the last month telegraph that.

Actually, she made one today when we spent a few hours with the kids (I insisted we bring them, so I could focus on them and not her) investigating schools for our son.  I don't even remember what I was doing, but she said, "no wonder she [D2] loves you more." This goes with, " they don't like me very much, do they?" (Not true), "I wasn't a bad mom for once"   and "you're better with them." (True)

That's my Waif! She knows she can't handle them full, time without me for balance. As long as she has her Love Attachment, I and more importantly the kids, are safe. If not, she will desperately cling to the kids, because as she once wrote in a note I found on our computer,."S and D are the only things that keep me here, Turkish would be all right without me." That was Christmas Day, 2011, when I and our son, then 1, came home to find her collapsed on our bathroom floor in utter depression and dispair. She was pregnant with our daughter at the time.

I really need those papers signed before Hater appears to my replacement... .

[livednlearned]

Hey Turkish,

It sounds like S4 has consistently been wetting the bed? It's actually good if that's the case. If he stopped for six months and it has started recently started up again, that can be a sign of emotional stuff.

My son started bedwetting out of the blue, and the pediatrician's first question was whether he might be experiencing any kind of emotional stress at home or school.

Um, yes.  :'(

[Turkish]

Hey Turkish,

It sounds like S4 has consistently been wetting the bed? It's actually good if that's the case. If he stopped for six months and it has started recently started up again, that can be a sign of emotional stuff.

My son started bedwetting out of the blue, and the pediatrician's first question was whether he might be experiencing any kind of emotional stress at home or school.

Um, yes.  :'(

thanks, that's a good point, and must have been very concerning. Stress, ya think?

I'll swallow my pride and just put him back into the diaper at night when I get them back today.

[martillo]

Turkish:  you have gotten lots of good advice, but just thought I'd share my experience.  Our 2nd son was a bed-wetter and even wet the bed during naps - when he was awake - no problems.  It made my (probably uBPD) M-I-L crazy that he wasn't properly "potty-trained" which made my uBPDh really question my approach to put him in a pull-up WHENEVER I put him to bed to sleep (whether for a nap or night-time).  At the time, my career was in health-care and I asked one of the urologist I worked w about it (cause H was starting to get a little belligerent that I wasn't doing things the way his mom said I should be - withholding drinks after 7p; standing guard over him to make sure he goes potty before bed, etc.).  Urologist's exact words were "if I had a nickel for every little boy who wets the bed, I would be a millionaire... . if he is still wetting the bed when he is 14, then bring him in to see me."  A lot of bed wetting is due to a neurologic "immaturity" between the brain / bladder connection and it sounds like that could be your son.

I kept son in pull-ups for sleep until he decided he didn't want them anymore at 4.5 yo and he still wet the bed fairly frequently until probably about 9 yo.  I just kept "crib" pad under his sheets and sometimes (please don't report me to the authorities!) he slept in a stinky bed cause if he didn't let me know he wet his bed and didn't bring me his sheets - well, he slept in them again!

You have a 4 yo and 2 yo - I would do whatever makes your life easier and (on this I agree w their mom) whatever lets you spend the most quality time w your kids and the least amount of "grrrrrrrs".  Washing sheets everyday is not my idea of quality time!

[Turkish]

Thanks martillo for the sage advice. I need to step back from my lingering anger at their cheating, abandoning mom (and the other BPD behaviors) and do what's best. I stayed in the house, so it's a lot more convinient for me to toss laundry into the washer and not lose time going to the laundromat. I got them back tonight. I put one on him... kids still insist on sleeping in my bed. I guess it's ok for now. I don't mind the company... I'll never get these moments back.

[slimmiller]

Thanks martillo for the sage advice. I need to step back from my lingering anger at their cheating, abandoning mom (and the other BPD behaviors) and do what's best. I stayed in the house, so it's a lot more convinient for me to toss laundry into the washer and not lose time going to the laundromat. I got them back tonight. I put one on him... kids still insist on sleeping in my bed. I guess it's ok for now. I don't mind the company... I'll never get these moments back.

Wow. Thanks! I needed to read those two lines after the run in I had with my ex-BPD when dropping my kids off with her yesterday...   .

This above dialogue is very timely. I really like the different perspective/reframe if you will, martillo. I think it really is about the quality of life in the here and now and it will only get better as the kids grow and mature (and that goes for me as well)