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Author Topic: Co-sleeping with kids... subtle alienation?  (Read 390 times)
Turkish
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Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
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Dad to my wolf pack


« on: May 26, 2014, 09:42:31 AM »

Not by their uBPD mom... . by me!

The kids. S4 and D2, absolutely refuse to sleep in their own room now. They were ok when she first moved out (well, relatively ok). Then clung to be tightly when she pulled her young narcissist in too close as a replacement in their eyes only weeks after she moved out. Luckily, she limited contact again when she feared losing the kids emotionally, as they were pretty mad at her.

A few weeks ago, I took the kids out of town. The guest room we had only had one queen bed. I slept with the kids in it. Since we got back, they are just into sleeping in my bed. S4 even argues with me (not angry, just whiney, but he's like that about most things  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Last week, I did move D2 (just turned 2) into her crib after she fell asleep. She awoke in the morning in an empty room and cried out, ":)aaaady!"

Not that they're not slightly more attached to me than their mother anyway, as it was when she was living here (due to her subtle emotional unavailability, and partial neglect of them while she pursued her teenage romance offline). I wonder, however, if I may be engaging in a passive aggressive form of alienation, like "the kids like me more, see, and I'm going to encourage that!" Also, if I'm going to screw them up so they grow up weird or something... .

I confess I do like the company (me pushed to the very edge, D2 diagonal between us like a typical baby), but I realize at some point that they need to be independent. And here I was the one who convinced their mom to not sleep with the kids for their whole first year, and to move the crib out of the bedroom by 6 months.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2014, 10:59:44 AM »

Kids who absolutely refuse to do anything usually have adults who absolutely allow them to.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

If you want the kids to sleep in your bed, it's important to figure out why. If you like the company, then it's good to ask yourself if that's the right reason for them to be there. It sounds like you are aware of shadow thinking about the strong bond you're cultivating with your kids -- you see it could punish their mom and maybe that feels good. Careful about the effects of this. Your kids will soak up this kind of passive aggression and use it, first on friends and then later in romantic relationships. They may also learn to use it on you.

If you want them to sleep with you because you don't want them to feel bad, this is also good to explore.

One thing I learned about my own parenting -- and I think this might be common with other recovering codependent people -- is that I didn't want S12 to feel bad. About anything. I can see clearly now that I distracted S12 with things to take his mind off the crappy things in his life. That just taught him to use distractions to numb his feelings. I'm paying for this mistake now.

If your kids want to sleep with you because they feel lonely or scared or sad, that probably feels great to comfort and soothe them with your presence. But the bigger picture is that they need to feel that they can do this on their own. At age 2 and 4, maybe it isn't a big deal yet, and everyone has different opinions about co-sleeping with kids. I think the pros/cons of the actual issue are beside the point. The bigger issue is whether you are a parent who can teach your kids how to deal in mature ways with their feelings. Something I learned the hard way: Just because I was more emotionally mature than N/BPDx didn't mean I was entirely emotionally mature. I had a lot to learn.

Being codependent for me meant that I was very focused on rescuing and fixing someone else. I'm a pro at this. But it's a very limited way of being. I brought my same codependent A game to parenting and can see now how it's manifesting in my son. I've been such a strong, infallible force in his life that it has undermined his own feelings of confidence. He told me a few weeks ago that he doesn't think he'll be able to get through college because I won't be there.

You are catching this stuff at a great age -- kids absorb our emotional health like we can't even imagine.

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Turkish
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Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2014, 04:56:41 PM »

Kids who absolutely refuse to do anything usually have adults who absolutely allow them to.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

If you want the kids to sleep in your bed, it's important to figure out why. If you like the company, then it's good to ask yourself if that's the right reason for them to be there. It sounds like you are aware of shadow thinking about the strong bond you're cultivating with your kids -- you see it could punish their mom and maybe that feels good. Careful about the effects of this. Your kids will soak up this kind of passive aggression and use it, first on friends and then later in romantic relationships. They may also learn to use it on you.

If you want them to sleep with you because you don't want them to feel bad, this is also good to explore.

Thanks for the insight. Funny, but my son had no problem taking it over when I said I'd just sleep in his bed in the other room!

Excerpt
One thing I learned about my own parenting -- and I think this might be common with other recovering codependent people -- is that I didn't want S12 to feel bad. About anything. I can see clearly now that I distracted S12 with things to take his mind off the crappy things in his life. That just taught him to use distractions to numb his feelings. I'm paying for this mistake now.

I think I picked up some of the helicopter emotional parenting from both their mom (who also gets it in a way from her mom). I'm trying to learn how much is too much and how little is too little. I am usually tougher on my son (you fell, no blood? Get up, buddy!), though I don't have a problem telling my D "no" and sitting back and watching her passive aggressive quiet tantrums where she just stops. I was able to get her to stay in Sunday school yesterday, while she was desperately clinging to me. I feared her emotionally hurting, being all the more cognizant of abandonment issues now, especially at her critical development stage. I was proud of myself that I was able to leave her. And when I came back, she was fine and wanted to stay there! I need to let her go more. S4 is so much like his mother, it's uncanny, needing the constant reassurance and validation.

Excerpt
If your kids want to sleep with you because they feel lonely or scared or sad, that probably feels great to comfort and soothe them with your presence. But the bigger picture is that they need to feel that they can do this on their own. At age 2 and 4, maybe it isn't a big deal yet, and everyone has different opinions about co-sleeping with kids. I think the pros/cons of the actual issue are beside the point. The bigger issue is whether you are a parent who can teach your kids how to deal in mature ways with their feelings. Something I learned the hard way: Just because I was more emotionally mature than N/BPDx didn't mean I was entirely emotionally mature. I had a lot to learn.

That's the issue. They feel more secure and attached with me. I saw it when we were together, I saw it the last time we were at our son's soccer practice last month, and the other week when all four of us were together looking at schools. Their mom has made self-deprecating comments about it in front of the kids. (I will need to talk to her about this at some point, the auto-alienation.) I feel like I am picking up some slack, and am not sure how much of that is healthy on an emotional level.

Excerpt
Being codependent for me meant that I was very focused on rescuing and fixing someone else. I'm a pro at this. But it's a very limited way of being. I brought my same codependent A game to parenting and can see now how it's manifesting in my son. I've been such a strong, infallible force in his life that it has undermined his own feelings of confidence. He told me a few weeks ago that he doesn't think he'll be able to get through college because I won't be there.

You are catching this stuff at a great age -- kids absorb our emotional health like we can't even imagine.

That's tough, LnL. I wish I had some wisdom to offer there, or a Teen Turkish point of view since I was the single child of a single mother. But my r/s with her was quite different than yours with your son.

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Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2014, 01:20:04 AM »

Thanks for the push and the advice, LnL. Got the kids back tonight. After much "negotiating" I got them to sleep together on the trundle,.rather than my room. D2 started tromping around my small house. I turned out all of the lights and asked her to go to bed. I closed my bedroom door since she wanted to go in there. S4 had previously asked to sleep in my bed, but I told him if he got up early enough, he could come cuddle with me. Sleeping together on the trundle was novel for them, so they accepted it, even though my son wantd me to sleep right then on the top bunk, to "protect them from the monsters." I went in a while later and D2 had climbed onto the top bed, girl power! I guess her brother was bothering her too much. And there they sleep... .  
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
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Posts: 12104


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 12:18:32 PM »

My son asked what we were doing this morning. The usual routine (funny that he always asks this). I told him I'd pick him up later for sports practice, then he'd come back to spend the night, then spend all weekend with mommy. He told me he didn't want to go back to mommy's. I asked him why not? No answer. I resisted the urge to "interrogate" him since I know we're not supposed to do that. I think it's more than he has more fun at Daddy's house. I am actually pretty authoritative on him when he acts out, so it's not like it's anarchy over here. He seemed desperate to play with me last evening. "Come play with meeee!" I was trying to make dinner for them. I'd play for 5 mins, then go back. He kept asking. We then read like every night, of course. He got mad at me because he wanted to keep reading books, But it was bath time and getting late. I was firm, and he acquiesced.

Their mom never answered my email asking which summer session of school she thought we should sign him up for. It's like there's something going on again, and I feel so powerless. The next 16-17 years are going to be like wandering the desert for 40. I suppose my situation is pretty drama-free here compared to most. For now... .
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ennie
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2014, 03:49:37 PM »

I do not think you are alienating unless you are also supporting or engaging in negative talk about your ex.  I think that the issue is what kind of relationship you are developing with your kids and how that supports them in relating to others as they grow and develop.  Sleeping with kids results in more intimacy, enmeshment, dependency, trust, etc. 

Encouraging independent sleeping results in more independence, self-sufficiency, and a little more distance. 

In my personal opinion, I would want a 2 year old to be more close and less independent than a 4 year old, and a 4 year old closer than a 14 year old. So it is a balance between encouraging the child to be identified with you and encouraging their own independence. 

As to alienation, the issue in my opinion is when something different is happening in each house, it is hard on both households.  In our home, we do not sleep with the kids, especially since they were about 4 and 7 respectively.  But SD10 and SF14 STILL sleep with mom.  So what happens for us is that SD10 says she cannot get to sleep without an adult, and cries if we do not sleep with her... . and SD14 was like that for awhile, but now she DESPeRATELY needs to be alone when with us. 

The general idea being that you need what your are used to. 
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