Summer Schedule with almost-Teen - BPD Very Triggered - Help

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hello!

The months leading up to the summer schedule change have always been a challenge, since BPD BM decided to reduce DH's custody, giving him way less time during the school year but the big chunk of time in the summer. She has always wanted to have her cake and eat it too, and it's always been a big fuss coming up with a schedule spreading DH's summer time across the summer, but she's always (mostly) accepted it in the end because she was a school teacher and off during the summer, so she got to see SS a lot during the days when DH was working. (I say "mostly" because she would still nickle and dime away DH's summer time as the summers went on, as much as she could.)

This year, it's much, much worse. SS is about to turn 13, and we think his growing independence as he becomes a teen is triggering her. Also, this is the first year she has a boyfriend and his two kids living with her, and she hasn't figured out how to keep getting any significant one-on-one time with SS without stealing* DH's time with SS, which seems to be triggering her. Also, this is the first summer that she is no longer a teacher and she doesn't have time off during the summer, so she will lose a LOT of time with SS once summer starts, which seems to really be triggering her.

We've been bending over backwards, rearranging our schedule during the school year so that SS can better bond with her new family, at her request. DH sent the court-required "here's when I want my summer days" thing at the end of March, and of course she didn't like it and asked that we spread out DH's time during the year and give her more summer time, which we are very willing to do. We know she's hurting. We really, really want to help her, and make this easier for her. We want to make it easier for SS.

We've come up with about 20 different options for spreading the time out differently. Granted, the first one we sent was asking yet again for the 50/50 split they did the first 5 years they were apart, because, you know, we figure if we don't ask we'll never get it again, but if we ask maybe someday... . But I also know that maybe didn't help things to start out with that.

We've since sent her option after option after option, each one giving up a little bit more, and we're at the point where we feel like what we're offering her is really not fair to DH and his relationship with his son any more, and DH isn't willing to give any more. And every time, she comes back with more, and crazier, reasons why we should have less time with SS, and increasingly crappy offers. The latest offers and reasoning behind them really don't make any sense at all.

Now, note, DH doesn't NEED to do ANY of this. He is talking with her about giving her more summer time with SS to HELP HER and make her life easier and better. It's feeling to him like the harder he bends to try to help her, the worse she is behaving. A couple of days ago, she said, fine, let's sit down with SS and see what he thinks about this. DH said, please, let's work this out between us first, and take it to SS together and see what he thinks of what we work out, so that we're not making him feel torn between us. She said OK. And then she apparently went home to SS that night and started selling him on what she thought was reasonable - which is way less time for DH. She came back to DH saying SS didn't want this time or that time that DH is asking for. And tacked on yet more things that didn't make sense to "rationalize" why DH should have even less time than that.

DH was getting really furious at this point - see above, trying to make these changes and bend over backwards to help her, she does nothing but respond with worse and worse behavior. He wrote her an e-mail yesterday morning that was actually very nicely worded, making plain why the latest thing that didn't make sense didn't make sense, laying out all the things he has been doing to try to help her because it's best for SS and because she keeps asking for this, and saying he really wants to come to an acceptable arrangement instead of just saying "fine, we'll go back to the decree," he's happy to rearrange the schedule as he's always been, but he's not willing to forfeit any time with SS.

BPD BM showed SS this e-mail in the midst of a giant fit when she picked him up at school yesterday. We're not sure what the tone was - whether it was belittling DH or laughing at him or trying to show that DH is unreasonable or what. When SS came to us after DH got home from work, SS was so afraid of BPD BM that he couldn't even come in the house where I was because he was too afraid of women in general. I made myself scarce of course so they could come in the house, and SS was better after awhile, but oh my word. BPD BM told DH to come by her house this weekend to work out the schedule in person. DH is angrier than I have ever seen him, and is thinking it's probably not a good idea to talk to her about this this weekend.

We just don't know what to do. Any advice?

If she pushes to the point where DH just says "OK, you know what, fine. We'll go with the decree," it's going to hurt SS because he really wants to spend as much time as he can with his new stepbrother. DH is trying to get into his therapist to work on this some, too, but they haven't returned his call today and now it's the weekend.

Does that sound like the right course of action - refuse to engage her this weekend while tempers and crazy are so high? This will be tricky, because of the pattern of behavior in the footnote below. DH is pretty sure he will have a very hard time being his usual kind self if he has to talk with her this weekend.

I know some of you have been in a situation like this. What did you do? What would you do if this were you?

*stealing DH's time - since January, this pattern has been increasing. Almost every weekend that DH has SS, BPD BM *has* to have SS over to her house for one reason or another. Sometimes, it's vague but REALLY IMPORTANT things that she won't even say what they are, but she's very insistent that it will only take 10 minutes, and SS comes back usually looking unhappy and won't talk about it (and we never ask him or press him). Sometimes, she calls SS directly and does the trick of "What are y'all doing? Just hanging out? Well, at MY house tonight, we're doing this super fun thing! You can come over if you want to!" We were hoping that rearranging weekends so that SS and his stepbrother's schedules coincided that this one would be reduced, and it has, somewhat, but not completely. For the last couple of months, she always calls SS and asks him what he's doing and if he can come over. DH is working with his therapist now on how to get this to stop. Note - during the school year, BPD BM has WAY more time with SS than DH does. We get that she's hurting and that she's needing, but DH's time with his son is extremely important too! We're seriously at our wit's end.

[JennyAnyDots]

Hello!

The months leading up to the summer schedule change have always been a challenge, since BPD BM decided to reduce DH's custody, giving him way less time during the school year but the big chunk of time in the summer. She has always wanted to have her cake and eat it too, and it's always been a big fuss coming up with a schedule spreading DH's summer time across the summer, but she's always (mostly) accepted it in the end because she was a school teacher and off during the summer, so she got to see SS a lot during the days when DH was working. (I say "mostly" because she would still nickle and dime away DH's summer time as the summers went on, as much as she could.)

This year, it's much, much worse. SS is about to turn 13, and we think his growing independence as he becomes a teen is triggering her. Also, this is the first year she has a boyfriend and his two kids living with her, and she hasn't figured out how to keep getting any significant one-on-one time with SS without stealing* DH's time with SS, which seems to be triggering her. Also, this is the first summer that she is no longer a teacher and she doesn't have time off during the summer, so she will lose a LOT of time with SS once summer starts, which seems to really be triggering her.

We've been bending over backwards, rearranging our schedule during the school year so that SS can better bond with her new family, at her request. DH sent the court-required "here's when I want my summer days" thing at the end of March, and of course she didn't like it and asked that we spread out DH's time during the year and give her more summer time, which we are very willing to do. We know she's hurting. We really, really want to help her, and make this easier for her. We want to make it easier for SS.

We've come up with about 20 different options for spreading the time out differently. Granted, the first one we sent was asking yet again for the 50/50 split they did the first 5 years they were apart, because, you know, we figure if we don't ask we'll never get it again, but if we ask maybe someday... . But I also know that maybe didn't help things to start out with that.

We've since sent her option after option after option, each one giving up a little bit more, and we're at the point where we feel like what we're offering her is really not fair to DH and his relationship with his son any more, and DH isn't willing to give any more. And every time, she comes back with more, and crazier, reasons why we should have less time with SS, and increasingly crappy offers. The latest offers and reasoning behind them really don't make any sense at all.

Now, note, DH doesn't NEED to do ANY of this. He is talking with her about giving her more summer time with SS to HELP HER and make her life easier and better. It's feeling to him like the harder he bends to try to help her, the worse she is behaving. A couple of days ago, she said, fine, let's sit down with SS and see what he thinks about this. DH said, please, let's work this out between us first, and take it to SS together and see what he thinks of what we work out, so that we're not making him feel torn between us. She said OK. And then she apparently went home to SS that night and started selling him on what she thought was reasonable - which is way less time for DH. She came back to DH saying SS didn't want this time or that time that DH is asking for. And tacked on yet more things that didn't make sense to "rationalize" why DH should have even less time than that.

DH was getting really furious at this point - see above, trying to make these changes and bend over backwards to help her, she does nothing but respond with worse and worse behavior. He wrote her an e-mail yesterday morning that was actually very nicely worded, making plain why the latest thing that didn't make sense didn't make sense, laying out all the things he has been doing to try to help her because it's best for SS and because she keeps asking for this, and saying he really wants to come to an acceptable arrangement instead of just saying "fine, we'll go back to the decree," he's happy to rearrange the schedule as he's always been, but he's not willing to forfeit any time with SS.

BPD BM showed SS this e-mail in the midst of a giant fit when she picked him up at school yesterday. We're not sure what the tone was - whether it was belittling DH or laughing at him or trying to show that DH is unreasonable or what. When SS came to us after DH got home from work, SS was so afraid of BPD BM that he couldn't even come in the house where I was because he was too afraid of women in general. I made myself scarce of course so they could come in the house, and SS was better after awhile, but oh my word. BPD BM told DH to come by her house this weekend to work out the schedule in person. DH is angrier than I have ever seen him, and is thinking it's probably not a good idea to talk to her about this this weekend.

We just don't know what to do. Any advice?

If she pushes to the point where DH just says "OK, you know what, fine. We'll go with the decree," it's going to hurt SS because he really wants to spend as much time as he can with his new stepbrother. DH is trying to get into his therapist to work on this some, too, but they haven't returned his call today and now it's the weekend.

Does that sound like the right course of action - refuse to engage her this weekend while tempers and crazy are so high? This will be tricky, because of the pattern of behavior in the footnote below. DH is pretty sure he will have a very hard time being his usual kind self if he has to talk with her this weekend.

I know some of you have been in a situation like this. What did you do? What would you do if this were you?

*stealing DH's time - since January, this pattern has been increasing. Almost every weekend that DH has SS, BPD BM *has* to have SS over to her house for one reason or another. Sometimes, it's vague but REALLY IMPORTANT things that she won't even say what they are, but she's very insistent that it will only take 10 minutes, and SS comes back usually looking unhappy and won't talk about it (and we never ask him or press him). Sometimes, she calls SS directly and does the trick of "What are y'all doing? Just hanging out? Well, at MY house tonight, we're doing this super fun thing! You can come over if you want to!" We were hoping that rearranging weekends so that SS and his stepbrother's schedules coincided that this one would be reduced, and it has, somewhat, but not completely. For the last couple of months, she always calls SS and asks him what he's doing and if he can come over. DH is working with his therapist now on how to get this to stop. Note - during the school year, BPD BM has WAY more time with SS than DH does. We get that she's hurting and that she's needing, but DH's time with his son is extremely important too! We're seriously at our wit's end.

[Matt]

*stealing DH's time - since January, this pattern has been increasing. Almost every weekend that DH has SS, BPD BM *has* to have SS over to her house for one reason or another. Sometimes, it's vague but REALLY IMPORTANT things that she won't even say what they are, but she's very insistent that it will only take 10 minutes, and SS comes back usually looking unhappy and won't talk about it (and we never ask him or press him). Sometimes, she calls SS directly and does the trick of "What are y'all doing? Just hanging out? Well, at MY house tonight, we're doing this super fun thing! You can come over if you want to!" We were hoping that rearranging weekends so that SS and his stepbrother's schedules coincided that this one would be reduced, and it has, somewhat, but not completely. For the last couple of months, she always calls SS and asks him what he's doing and if he can come over. DH is working with his therapist now on how to get this to stop. Note - during the school year, BPD BM has WAY more time with SS than DH does. We get that she's hurting and that she's needing, but DH's time with his son is extremely important too! We're seriously at our wit's end.

From:  DH

To:  BM

Re:  Schedule

Referring to the summer schedule we agreed to - attached below - Son's time with me is important and there has been a pattern of interrupting that time.

So I will stick with the schedule - when he is with me he won't come over to your house til it's time according to the schedule.

Please do not call him and tell him about what you are doing when he's not there - it's not fair to him.

E-mail not verbal or text.

Keep it simple and focused on one single topic.

No more than three sentences.

If she responds with arguments, accusations, etc., don't respond to that.

Say what you are going to do, and then do it.

(And of course it will be best to let S12 know in advance what the new approach is - "If your mom calls and wants you to come over there, tell her you'll go Tuesday at 6:00 according to the schedule."  And don't argue with him either.)

[Matt]

Regarding the schedule, you are making the mistake professional negotiators call "countering your own offer".  You make an offer you think is good, and the other party says no, so you make one that's better for her.  By doing that, you are rewarding her for saying "No";  every time she says "No" you give her a better offer.

You have to quit doing that.  Go back to what the schedule says now - "I'm sorry we couldn't come up with a change that is agreeable to you.  We'll stick with the schedule as it is - attached below."

She may come back with something reasonable, and you may decide to accept it.  But don't keep going around and around, making more offers - that's making things worse.

From what you have said, it's probably not in your stepson's interest to be around her a lot.  So trying to find a schedule that will appease her may not be doing him any good.

[JennyAnyDots]

Thanks Matt!

You're right - DH and I are both aware that we have complete crap for negotiating skills. Mine, I know, are particularly non-existent. I tend to look at a problem that requires negotiation, overthink it, way way overthink it, try to see every possible side and empathize as much as I can with every possible participant, and come up with an offer that I think is as fair as I can possibly imagine for everybody. Which I know is very presumptuous of me, because I am NOT everybody, and don't know everything that is important to them. But the upshot is that I tend to make an offer that seems completely fair to me, and usually I wouldn't be willing to give more than that. Then the other party comes back to negotiate, and wants to find a middle ground between what I just sent and what they originally offered, and then I'm upset.

I thought the "game" was that I offer something I want that's more than I think they'll give, they offer something they want that's more than I'll give, and we negotiate until we find an acceptable middle ground. So I'm hearing you say that's not right either? LOL!

We should probably seriously take a class in negotiation skills... .

I like the sample e-mail you posted. Thank you! There's one catch there - I don't think I put this detail into the long thing I posted above. They have always, DH and BPD BM, said that it was OK for SS to go to the other parent's house when the possessory parent wasn't home. So during the summers when DH was working, SS could go to BPD BM's house during the days. In the mornings during the school year, usually BPD BM leaves for work way earlier than DH or SS (for school), so SS usually comes to our house for about an hour and we feed him breakfast and get him ready for school. Similarly, BPD BM gets home about an hour before DH, so SS could go to her house during that time on our days if he wants to. Maybe that's part of the problem - I don't think he has been going to her house in the evenings. Some of the latest things-that-don't-make-sense have been around that - she says DH gets 1.75 extra hour with SS every school day and she multiplies it by every school day all year (not just the ones that we don't have him otherwise), and divides it by 24, and says she should get 13 extra days from DH because of it. He's not even entertaining that line of argument - they've never done it that way, and she's gotten TONS of extra SS time as a result of this in the past. And after one more year, school will start much earlier, and those mornings are going to go away for DH anyway.

So - if DH says "I'm sorry we can't come to an agreement, here's the schedule we agreed on, we'll stick to that," DH will lose those school mornings with SS, which are really pretty precious to him. And he would have to find a way to enforce BPD BM not getting time with SS when DH is working during the weeks of summer when BPD BM would have no custody at all - I'm sure she would find ways to take off work. You know, BPD BM does have a history of taking away DH's mornings with SS when she's really, really angry at him - maybe this is just her working up to have an "excuse" to do that again. I hadn't really realized until I was typing all of this out, that SS hasn't been taking advantage of the opportunity to hang out at her house in the evenings while DH is still at work. With everything else that is triggering her, I'm sure that hurts.

Your last line there make a lot of sense. Sigh... .

Sorry, I'm kindof thinking out loud. Thank you for your help with this!

[JennyAnyDots]

Also, we're not sure what to do to help SS, with his more-triggered-than-I've-ever-seen-her Mom.

A colleague who has clinical psych experience said we should call BPD BM's last-known-therapist and mention that we're concerned because she's acting out, and ask if therapist would please reach out to her and see if she will accept any help. Colleague is insistent that people do this ALL THE TIME. My gut is shouting that this would be a really bad idea, but I don't know if that's just my fear of her figuring out that we did it and the consequences, or if it's a legitimate "that's a bad idea." (Not that those two are necessarily mutually exclusive.) Have any of y'all ever done this?

Unfortunately, we are legally prohibited from taking SS to a therapist without BPD BM's consent - and she refuses to give such consent.

[Matt]

I thought the "game" was that I offer something I want that's more than I think they'll give, they offer something they want that's more than I'll give, and we negotiate until we find an acceptable middle ground. So I'm hearing you say that's not right either? LOL!

That's a good approach, but it's not what you did.  You "countered your own offer".

You offer her $1.00 for a book she's done reading.  She asks for $2.00.  So you compromise on $1.50.  We all do that all the time, not just on money or time issues... .

But that's not what you did.

You offered her $1.00 for her book and she said no but she didn't make a counter-offer -  she just said no.  So you offered her $1.50 and she said no again.  So you offered her $2.00... . you rewarded her for saying "No."

It's good to try to understand what she wants, and to make an offer that you think will be good for both parties.  You can even support your offer by explaining how it will work well for both parties, if you think that will help.

Then stop - the next move is up to her.  She can accept your offer, or she could make a constructive proposal.  But if she just says no, or proposes something that she knows won't work for you, the negotiation won't be successful and you need to fall back on what is already in place, even though it's flawed.

Or... . you could enlist a mediator who could maybe figure out a better solution.  But to make it binding you would probably need to involve the court.

[Matt]

Unfortunately, we are legally prohibited from taking SS to a therapist without BPD BM's consent - and she refuses to give such consent.

I would definitely go back to court over this.

One way to do it would be just to file a motion, stating that you believe counseling would be good for SS but BM won't agree to it, and asking the court to rule that you can do that.

Another way to do it - and this is what I did in a similar situation - would be to get a referral from someone - I got a referral from the school counselor who knew a good counselor in private practice - and take SS to see her, regularly.  I didn't tell my kids ":)on't tell your mom.", but I also didn't consult with their mom.

I figured if she took me to court over it, fine - I would explain what I did and why.

It worked fine - when we were in court over other issues, her lawyer tried to make an issue of it, and I explained why I took them to the counselor - and pointed out she was recommended by the school counselor - and the court approved it and ordered their mom to pay half.

[Panda39]

Excellent advice Matt flexible but with boundaries 

I often have a hard time with the flexible part.  Me?  I'd just go back to the original agreement and stick to it.

My SO has constant problems with the summer schedule with his exBPD.  They alternate weeks all summer long but every summer she must get the first week it's some kind of personal victory for her so we just give it to her... . non-issue.  Unfortunately, it never ends with that she always has grandiose summer plans that never materialize but are always during my SO's time with his daughters.  We always stick with the court order.  Give an inch the ex will try for a mile so we just don't give the inch .

Good luck wish this wasn't such a hassle and we could all start enjoying the summer 

[JennyAnyDots]

Thank you very much! I'm passing this all on to DH.

[JennyAnyDots]

Good luck wish this wasn't such a hassle and we could all start enjoying the summer 

YES! This!

[ForeverDad]

Keep in mind that most of this was written without first reading the other responses... .

We've come up with about 20 different options for spreading the time out differently. Granted, the first one we sent was asking yet again for the 50/50 split they did the first 5 years they were apart, because, you know, we figure if we don't ask we'll never get it again, but if we ask maybe someday... . But I also know that maybe didn't help things to start out with that.

We've since sent her option after option after option, each one giving up a little bit more, and we're at the point where we feel like what we're offering her is really not fair to DH and his relationship with his son any more, and DH isn't willing to give any more. And every time, she comes back with more, and crazier, reasons why we should have less time with SS, and increasingly crappy offers. The latest offers and reasoning behind them really don't make any sense at all.

Now, note, DH doesn't NEED to do ANY of this. He is talking with her about giving her more summer time with SS to HELP HER and make her life easier and better. It's feeling to him like the harder he bends to try to help her, the worse she is behaving... .

No surprise, I can count on Matt to call this countering your own offer.  That doesn't sound smart phrased that way, right?  Frankly, the more DH bends backwards to appease her, the more she'll want.  It's boundary pushing.  The more he is reasonable and flexible, the more she will demand.  It's counter-intuitive but hey it's a universal pattern of this flavor of mental illness.

DH was getting really furious at this point - see above, trying to make these changes and bend over backwards to help her, she does nothing but respond with worse and worse behavior. He wrote her an e-mail yesterday morning that was actually very nicely worded, making plain why the latest thing that didn't make sense didn't make sense, laying out all the things he has been doing to try to help her because it's best for SS and because she keeps asking for this, and saying he really wants to come to an acceptable arrangement instead of just saying "fine, we'll go back to the decree," he's happy to rearrange the schedule as he's always been, but he's not willing to forfeit any time with SS.

So what is the decree?  Is it that bad for DH?  If it's good for him, or less bad than what's happening now, then he can tell her "fine, we'll go back to the decree," and then batten down the hatches to weather the storm.  Yeah, problem is that SS is very emotionally fragile due to her and she will vent her 'extinction burst' on SS.

Me?  I found out the hard way that sticking to the order avoids a lot of the sabotaging.  As my lawyer would reply every time I complained my ex sabotaged exchanges or traded time, "Stop deviating from the order!"

*stealing DH's time - since January, this pattern has been increasing. Almost every weekend that DH has SS, BPD BM *has* to have SS over to her house for one reason or another... . DH is working with his therapist now on how to get this to stop.

Just. Say. NO.  DH needs to discuss with his therapist why he's so vulnerable to her GUILTING him.  Or else the pattern will continue increasing.  Remember, she feels it's her right to push the official boundaries.  And if DH lets her do it, so much the better.  Frankly, he can never satisfy the depths of her disordered thinking.  The more he gives up, the more she'll want, plead, guilt and demand.

Note - during the school year, BPD BM has WAY more time with SS than DH does. We get that she's hurting and that she's needing, but DH's time with his son is extremely important too! We're seriously at our wit's end.

Accept that DH can't be the Nice Guy, not unless he is willing to be walked over.

SS wants more time with his new stepbrother?  Fine.  Invite him over.  Kids love sleepovers, they're adventures.  See how that goes.

[david]

Our court order says summers are week on / week off. Sounds simply ? It usually starts in March and ends in late May. It's all done through email.

The best way I have found that works for me: I let ex make the schedule. If it meets the court order I agree. It never does so I point out the facts. Court order says week on / week off and the summer is to be split 50/50. I point out how many days are in the summer and divide it in half. Ex sends another schedule. Same thing happens. It usually takes three schedules from ex before the summer is 50/50.

Ex complained in an email that she wanted more time then just a week. I said fine as long as that rule applies to me too. That did not go over well. I ignored the rest of the email rages. 

We recently finished a custody eval in which she complained I was unreasonable and would not accomodate making more time than just a week. I anticipated that false allegation and had the email with me where I agreed provided we both have the same ability to get longer than a week. She still insisted I was lying.

This has been going on for 5 years now. I don't anticipate things to change. Six years ago ex refused to agree to a 50/50 schedule so I filed a contempt of court petition. Ex arranged a mediation the day before court. We went round and round for about 3 hours. Finally I got up and said I would resolve this in court the next day. The next day ex had a proposed schedule that followed the court order precisely. We were out of court in about 15 minutes. That boundary prevented it from happening again. Ex just drags it out until late May. I am so used to it I expect it.

Just two days ago ex sent the third proposal for this summer and it met the court order.

I minimize my email communication in an attempt to minimize conflict. Like I heard it said on this site before, "negative engagement is still engagement."

Figuring out boundaries is the first step. Sticking to them is the next step. When I first started boundaries ex fought it. I was concerned she would take it out on our boys. At first she did but that did subside and things are smoother for both of our boys.

[JennyAnyDots]

Update:

DH did not call her this weekend. She called him late afternoon Sunday and wanted to know why he hadn't called her to come to her house to work out the schedule. I'm working, he said. Well how about now, she said? I can't, I'm busy, he said. She hung up.

Monday afternoon, she sent him an offer that was actually pretty reasonable. Not as reasonable as the 50/50 they used to do, but more reasonable than the court order, and more reasonable than what she'd been coming with. She then called him several times in rapid succession to explain more and more why this was a good idea, and even tacked on a few extra days for DH.

The spreadsheet calendar she attached to illustrate what she was suggesting had some little "errors" in it that let her game the system to gain a few extra weekends for herself. DH and I fixed the calendar to reflect what they'd spoken about verbally on the phone, and so that it showed him not losing those weekends. We added in some "days in trade" we'll get next school year in exchange for these first few days of June that we're not actually getting though they're on the new calendar. Offered her this upcoming weekend for a few more days in trade next school year so she won't have to go 4 weekends in a row without SS (Father's Day, and that 5th weekend in May, you know). We took a lot of time to make sure we were ok with it, and sent it back to her this afternoon. Within half an hour, she agreed to all of it.

DONE! (For now.) I'm not kidding myself - I know she's still going to try to nickel and dime him out of time during the summer, and he's getting prepared for stopping that. I'm also wary because we have so many "days in trade" that go into the next school year, and it's possible she will "forget" and there will be fighting (there is precedence). But, we'll deal with that when it comes. Current crisis is over.

Thanks so much for all of the advice! Y'all are awesome!

[Matt]

Cool!  Good luck!

[david]

My ex used to forget things a lot. I went to email only communication. If ex says she doesn't remember I would simply give the date of the email and nothing else. Usually I would write , "The email dated xx/xx/xx explains everything." After a few times of this ex's memory got better.

[GaGrl]

Extend the spreadsheet calendar into the school year and get the trade days booked, then send to BPD mom via email.

[ennie]

Maybe you already have this worked out, but I wanted to just add a few points here.  We have the exact same dynamic with my DH's BPDex, but have worked on it a lot! 

One thing I have learned is that BPD mom does not know what she wants, but likes to argue.  So if DH makes the suggestion, it will be rejected even if it is EXACTLY what she said she wanted... . it is never about the point, always about trying to engage DH in conflict. 

The solution for us has been not to put energy into making it work for her--to let her ask for what she wants, and if she cannot do it, she does not get it.  DH asks for what he wants.  DH used to draft all kinds of plans when BPDex said she wanted to change the schedule.  I think that is what is known as a "rescue," trying to fix it for someone who may not even want to put the energy into fixing it for themselves. 

It was scary to do this, as DH was really afraid he would be perceived as not nice.  But the truth is, BPD mom has been far more civil since he stopped trying to do it for her. 

And, this gives us more time to make life work for DH and me, and for the kids! 

When mom is forced to ask for what she wants, DH has negotiating power, and can respond, "The kids can spend an extra week with you if you sign the attached order agreeing to this change and if I get another week at the end of summer," or whatever it is.  She can rage, the kids can rage, and so on, but the ball is in her court.  As the kids have grown older (now 14 and 10), DH will occasionally explain, "I told your mother I would be happy for you to be with her at that time, but I am awaiting her response."  That way, it is not always his fault, and he is not blaming or complaining about her. 

DH is a terrible negotiator, but he has learned.  For him, he needs "bright-line" rules.  NO changes from the parenting plan.  No rescues.  Ask for what he wants.  Do what WE think (or HE thinks, if we disagree) is best for the kids, not what is best for their mom.  Period. 

After being strict for 7 years, we recently had BPD mom ask in a nice way a month in advance to have an additional weekend with the kids.  She missed the deadline for changes to the parenting schedule, she did not do it perfectly.  We were terrified,as this was the first time we considered honoring her request for years, and in the past she used this to create conflict. 

But it seemed best for the kids (they would be able to see mom's family), so DH said yes, with several conditions.  Mom was grateful, honored the conditions, and it worked.  Truly a miracle for us.  Wow.  It lasted a day or two.  But, he chose to make a change because it was good for the kids, and not to make it work for mom, so no loss no matter how she reacted. 

Good luck. I would just suggest making strict rules for yourselves around negotiating, and stick with them for a few years. 

[ForeverDad]

One thing I have learned is that BPD mom does not know what she wants, but likes to argue.  So if DH makes the suggestion, it will be rejected even if it is EXACTLY what she said she wanted... . it is never about the point, always about trying to engage DH in conflict. 

The solution for us has been not to put energy into making it work for her--to let her ask for what she wants, and if she cannot do it, she does not get it.  DH asks for what he wants.  DH used to draft all kinds of plans when BPDex said she wanted to change the schedule.  I think that is what is known as a "rescue," trying to fix it for someone who may not even want to put the energy into fixing it for themselves. 

It was scary to do this, as DH was really afraid he would be perceived as not nice.  But the truth is, BPD mom has been far more civil since he stopped trying to do it for her.

I can attest to that.  I recall one time at the exchange locations where ex and I were talking about the need to adjust the next exchange.  She seemed stuck and so I spelled out a couple choices, both favorable for her.  Well, she retorted, "Then I just won't bring him!"  Eventually we did have an exchange.  I learned my lesson that day, it's often not good to offer choices, it can be triggering.

[Matt]

One thing I have learned is that BPD mom does not know what she wants, but likes to argue.  So if DH makes the suggestion, it will be rejected even if it is EXACTLY what she said she wanted... . it is never about the point, always about trying to engage DH in conflict. 

The solution for us has been not to put energy into making it work for her--to let her ask for what she wants, and if she cannot do it, she does not get it.  DH asks for what he wants.  DH used to draft all kinds of plans when BPDex said she wanted to change the schedule.  I think that is what is known as a "rescue," trying to fix it for someone who may not even want to put the energy into fixing it for themselves. 

It was scary to do this, as DH was really afraid he would be perceived as not nice.  But the truth is, BPD mom has been far more civil since he stopped trying to do it for her.

I can attest to that.  I recall one time at the exchange locations where ex and I were talking about the need to adjust the next exchange.  She seemed stuck and so I spelled out a couple choices, both favorable for her.  Well, she retorted, "Then I just won't bring him!"  Eventually we did have an exchange.  I learned my lesson that day, it's often not good to offer choices, it can be triggering.

Here's what works for me - I've tried several approaches and one definitely works better than the others... .

I find that if I say what I will do - and I develop the plan taking into account what I know about my ex's schedule, preferences, etc. - and then I do what I said I would do, that usually works.

I might say, "I will pick up the kids at noon Sunday and bring them back at noon next Saturday."  As clear and simple as possible - no way to misinterpret it.

She usually doesn't respond at all, which I take for "OK".  Sometimes she responds, "OK."

Once in a while she raises a concern - "I'm taking them to church Sunday and we might not be home by noon."  Then I modify the plan - "OK, I'll pick them up at 1:00 Sunday and bring them back at noon next Saturday 6/14."  Again, she probably won't respond to that, which I take as "OK."

This works because the burden is on me to figure out the plan, and I do my best to figure it out so it will work for everybody.  She knows that if she has a real issue with it, and if she is civil, I'll adapt, but if she doesn't have a real issue with it - if she just wants to argue - I'm not going to engage.

Since my kids are older now - 15 and 17 - I usually cc: them on the e-mails so they know what's going on and they can also object if they have other plans.