help - my children just announced they won't come to house per custody schedule

[pilgrim]

I've been separated / divorced almost 5 years from uBPDxw, a D12 and D15.  Custody is 50/50, one week with mom and one with me (dad).  Divorce happened while living overseas, been back in U.S. one year.

I've always had stricter house rules than my ex.  She gives them as much junk food, TV, computer, ipad, staying up late, sleeping past noon, etc. as they want, while I have limits on those things.  She will tell me that these things should be limited, but doesn't follow her own words.  D15 possibly is addicted to video games, or at least unhealthy amount.

This past Sunday I was about to bring D15 to her mom's house and I asked her to practice her bass first.  She refused and I took her computer away.  Then she wouldn't go to her mom's without the computer.  At some point she just left my house without me knowing and called her mom from the street about 10 minutes away.  D12 saw this and was very upset.  Nothing like this has happened before.

My ex picked up D15 on the street 10 minutes away and came to my house to pick up crying D12. Kids have been with their mom since then, per custody schedule.

The mom suggested in an email that we should take away kids' computers because gaming addiction is so bad.  I responded that before banning gaming, we should try limiting it to moderate use for 6 months. 

I spelled out in a lot of detail the rules I have in my house for kids' computer use and asked her if she would agree to limit computer use at her house to something comparable.  I'd never given her all these details before and wondered if she would somehow later twist them to use against me.  There was no response to my email.

As usual, each time I called kids this week they were on computer or TV at their mom's house, so I guess it's situation normal over there.

They're scheduled to come back to me at 5pm today.

At 3pm I got this email from ex:

"Both kids told me they would not want to go back to your house today.  They told me you had so many rules and they were unhappy to stay with you.  I explained to kids that you implemented all those rules for their best interest.   I think you should have a conversation with the kids.  I cannot force them get into the car to go to your house.  I really don't want to see D15 running away from your home again without anyone knowing it.  Many people could take advantage of her when she is desperate.   Someone could invite her to get in their car on that day. . . ."

I called kids and tried to listen to their feelings and not freak out about losing them.  I got the message from D12 that she thinks I have alot of annoying rules and no fun at my house, plus I make the kids do things that they don't want to do (practice instrument, eat healthy food, etc.)  D15 says she wants a break from me and also unhappy about my rules.  D12 said she didn't want to go to my place but she agreed that she would go anyway.  But D15 is adamant about not going and D12 says she won't go anywhere without her sister.

This is the first time in 5 years of coparenting I've faced this.  They've never refused to come to me or complained much about my rules, they just accepted them, albeit not thrilled about it.  Things seemed to be working OK before Sunday.

Can someone advise?  I don't want to lose my kids.  My ex is a masterful schemer and manipulator, so I guess I should have seen this coming.

[ennie]

We have dealt with this often, though not in such a definitive way, so I will tell you what I think from that experience.  I am a stepmom to two girls, now 10 and 14; their mom (DH's ex) is BPD.

First, what is your current parenting plan?  Is the week on/week off schedule something that is in a court ordered parenting plan or order?  What state do you live in at this time (if you are willing to disclose this information--fine if not!)?   Also, how likely is it that your ex will pursue this in court?  Finally, are the kids in counseling?

If you have a court ordered plan, that is the law and you can get it enforced.  Obviously, that might be very alienating to the kids if not done with care, but ultimately, it is very important that they know you are committed to being there for them. 

There are three important things I want to say.  First, on the emotional issue:  when a parent is engaged in alienation, particularly when it is subtle and reinforces the child's desires, it is really hard not to take the results personally ("I am so sorry your dad does not treat you with respect and has too many rules for your age, but unfortunately you still have to live with him" is alienation, and makes the child feel like it is his/her own idea not to go to dad's).  But as an adult parent, I think it is important to be there for your kids no matter what, even when they are rejecting you.  The book ":)ivorce Poison" can be very useful in developing an approach to this situation. 

My SD's pediatrician told me that in his opinion, the time where good parenting really counts is the first 3 years and teenage years.  Teen years are such an important time developmentally, particularly in the frontal lobes, which govern reason.  Because BPD/NPD people are particularly ill-equipped to be able to teach empathy, negotiation, and reason in stressful circumstances, and these are some of the critical things that develop in teen years, I think it is particularly important for kids of BPD parents to have the more stable parent in the picture at that time.

For you, it is just so important not to take this personally.  Teens need to rebel against parents' rules to develop, and you are the person that is safe to rebel against.  Sadly, it sounds like BPD/NPD mom has few rules and is also probably pretty scary to rebel against, so you need to be able to model loving your children through their anger and rebellion.  This is so much harder when mom aligns against you... . but modeling that you can love someone and stick with them even when you have conflicting needs is exactly what BPD mom has no ability to do.  In my opinion, our job as parents is to love kids through all this stuff, not to abandon them when the going gets tough, thus reinforcing the BPD story that no one is ever there for you. 

Second, a tool we found so helpful during the worst parental alienation attempts was COUNSELING, for the kids and for us.  SD14 was particularly susceptible to mom's alienation attempts as she is very enmeshed with her mom.  A counselor helped hugely to put this into perspective.  Mom was threatening to leave the state with the kids and the kids were telling DH at every transition that they would run away if they had to live with him.  The therapist helped her to see that Dad REALLY loves her and that she needs to let the parents work out this issue. 

Third, there is the issue of how you deal with this with BPD/NPD mom and the kids.  My suggestion is that you write to mom, and say something like, "I really appreciate your explaining to the kids the reasons behind my rules.  I love the kids and it is important to me that we stick with our court-ordered parenting plan and work through this challenging issue.  If we can work through this successfully, I am open in a year or so to consider changes to our parenting plan, but right now I think the plan we have is working, and that it is normal, teen behavior to not like rules.   So right now, I think we need to strategize about how to make the transition work if you are not willing to make the children come to my house. 

I am open to working with D15 to negotiate new rules now that she is older, and I would also like her to start seeing a counselor so that she has someone to work with regarding some of these issues who is not her mom or dad, given that she seems to be having a hard time regulating her digital use.  I would like to speak with her and suggest that we work on negotiating these rules, maybe with the help of a counselor.  Perhaps with your support, if you communicate to her that I am willing to be flexible, the transition may be less difficult than we fear.

In any event, I think it is important for the kids to stick with the parenting schedule to which we have agreed until we both can agree to come up with a new one.  You can explain to the kids that legally you cannot create a new schedule without Court approval and my agreement if that helps you to not have to take the blame for insisting on our current schedule. 

Again, thank you for your effort to explain to the kids the reason behind my rules. 

I will look into possible counselors and get back to you with my suggestions."

Maybe make the communication more brief.  But the idea is to validate that she is backing you up (even if this is not totally true), and to be clear that if your parenting plan is court ordered, that you will follow it, period. 

That is my suggestion.  I will tell you that every time SD14 really pushed to live with mom only, and DH clearly said "No, I love you, and I want you to live with me half of the time at least," there was conflict and then SD14 seemed more happy than before. Somehow, the fact that it was out of her hands and that dad was willing to go to bat for her was really important to her and created more of a sense of safety.  He also has had to learn to be flexible--not to cave in on boundaries, but to help SD14 to learn how to negotiate for what she wants rather than refusing our pouting... . and when she does so, there is real progress.  I suggest Foster Kline's  "Love and Logic" parenting as a help for how to negotiate with kids and teens.  There are books and tapes and MP3 files available online.  When kids at that age are empowered to ask for what they want in a respectful way, and to deal with the problems themselves, they often come through it being kinder and more mature.  I know with SD14 I have done a lot of this kind of negotiate, as DH is not as good at it.  I will tell her, "Because video games are addictive, we have boundaries to help you develop self-control.  If you can figure out a way to do that that does not involve us, then you can have more independence.  But in the meantime, we want to give you more freedom while helping you to learn boundaries so you can limit yourself as an adult.  Let's talk about how we can support you in being more independent in that way, because being really independent and grown up includes both getting to do what you want and learning how to deal with the consequences of what you do, and our job as parents is to help you learn about the hard consequences so you do not have to deal with them later." 

My SD14 really understands this when I explain it to her.  I explain that it is not about punishing her or making lots of rules, but helping her to develop self control so she has time in her life for all the things she loves, not just the computer.  I also explain that both me and her dad also have to deal with this in our own lives--that we place limits on our own recreational digital time because otherwise we want to do more than is good for us.  She is not the only one dealing with this problem! 

I think most kids are willing to negotiate when they understand what is behind the rule, and understand where you are flexible and where you are not.  At 15, it is important to give kids some power as to HOW to manage this stuff--"here is the concern I have as a parent, here is what you are wanting, how would YOU resolve this problem?  You might have a better solution than I do about how to do both, as both of our needs are important. "

Kids are amazing at that age. 

Good luck!

[livednlearned]

Great feedback from Ennie.

I don't have much to add, except that I agree it's important to respond by email so that if it is ever used in court, there is documentation that represents your perspective. For example, maybe a sentence saying, "I know D15 is unhappy about being here because I won't let her have unlimited time on the computer. I understand that teens don't like rules, but this is one I feel strongly about. If she leaves and calls you, please tell me before picking her up so we can be on the same page. It is important that she does not feel she can wander off without telling me where she is going."

Something to clarify why D15 is sad (she doesn't like rules), and why you are right to enforce rules (addiction is bad, parents set limits), and to have a game plan if it happens again (you are the custodial parent and it is D15's time with you). Now that D15 knows her mom will rescue her from dad's, chances are this will happen again. It's a good idea to establish a reasonable strategy -- and it's reasonable to ask the other parent to call first so that you can sort it out since D15 is with you.

I wouldn't mention anything about changing the parenting plan. It isn't relevant to the immediate situation, and BPD mom can then tell D15 that she should keep up the rebellion because you're thinking about giving up custody.  

Another book that might be helpful is Parenting Teens with Love and Logic. Teens can win -- just like your D did. It takes a lot of effort on our part to make the consequences logical so that teens feel a direct impact from their behavior. Otherwise they learn to fight us instead of learn from their mistakes.

I'm working through the computer addiction thing with my son too. One thing I've learned is that kids have shifted a huge portion of their social lives online. When we take away their devices, we are also taking away their social lives. It feels like punishment to them. My situation is different than yours, so this might not apply, but what I've also had to learn is that S12 needs me to redirect him to make healthier choices. I try to offer him time with me, or time with friends, or do something physical. I can't just tell him "no device" if I expect him to understand that less computer time is for his benefit. My logic is that he should be connecting to real people, not to the computer. I want him to learn that it is more rewarding to be with real people than being online, and that means work for me. I also think kids who have a BPD parent tend to experience more dysfunctional emotions and I know that my son prefers the computer because it numbs his feelings.

Getting your Ds into counseling will help make it more clear what emotions are being stuffed. Until that stuff gets aired out, your D is going to want to soothe herself with games. It might also help to work with a family counselor so the two of you can come to a healthy agreement about what is reasonable (limited computer), why (it's healthier, you love your D), and how she can learn to set her own limits. If she can't set her own limits, the consequences are xyz, which she and you work out together.

[pilgrim]

ennie and livednlearned,

Thanks so much for your detailed responses.  I'm going to process this and respond later.  Much appreciated.

p

[formflier]

ennie and livednlearned,

Thanks so much for your detailed responses.  I'm going to process this and respond later.  Much appreciated.

p

You are on the right track!  Teenagers test rules... . that's their job.  In reality they like "guardrails" to their behavior.

Having one parent that is not supportive must be frustrating. 

I have seen my ex brother in law deal with similar issues.  He is normal guy with rules and his ex shows BPD traits... . is a "buddy" to the kids and they do what they want...

Counseling and documentation have been key to keeping those kids on the right track.

Again... you are on the right track!  Keep going

[momtara]

"I am open in a year or so to consider changes to our parenting plan"

Most of the suggested letter is good, but I worry about this.  Don't give in to something you may regret later!

[formflier]

"I am open in a year or so to consider changes to our parenting plan"

Most of the suggested letter is good, but I worry about this.  Don't give in to something you may regret later!

Agreed... that gives pwBPD something to focus on... . and then if it doesn't happen the way they want (in their mind)... I could see that being a trigger for some bad stuff.

[pilgrim]

I prefer not to discuss the parenting plan here - my ex is a stalker and who knows what she has access to.  Just that divorce was finalized in a 3rd world country, we live in CA and so far haven't had to resort to courts here.  I used to practice law here and am capable of getting good representation if I need it, but that should be last resort.  Pretty much we've worked everything out by negotiation between us so far, but then this (disruption of custody) has never happened either.

D15 is scheduled to begin counseling end of June, D12 shortly after.  D15 doesn't know it yet and will resist.  She's seen a couple psychologists in the past.

I've been rereading my old copy of Divorce Poison, and some similar books.

ennie, you're right about not taking this personally.  So hard to do.  Now when I wake up first thought that crosses my mind is "my children aren't here - they don't want to be with me anymore."  Not a comforting start to the day.  Yes, today's Father's day too.  And they told me this on Friday the 13th.  I try to remind myself that "this too shall pass," and take the long view.

I'll keep all of your suggestions in mind as I communicate with my ex and kids.  Yes, I learned long ago not to offer an inch or she'll grab a mile.

Again, it's really good to hear your input.

[ennie]

My DH has had to hear the hardest, meanest, most rejecting things from his kids.  All kids test boundaries, but an enmeshed daughter of a BPD/NPD mother just has a whole lot more mean options to choose from.  That said, my DH has had 50/50 custody since his divorce almost 9 years ago, and the kids have never not loved him, and are more expressive and clear in their love now than ever before.  When there is a real crisis, they call him or me, not mom (at least not these days).  SD14 would say that she wants to live with mom if she was asked, but she has learned that this does not get her anywhere and that she wants more to be happy where she is than to rock the boat. 

So I just want you to know that you have the hardest and most important daddy job there is, and that it matters and really does make a difference. So HAPPY FATHER's day!  You deserve it, hope you do something sweet and kind for yourself.  You will hear about how wonderful you are LATER, when the kids are older; might as well treat yourself well today!

As an aside, my DH is also without his girls on daddy's day; BPD mom talked him into letting her take the kids out of state for a family wedding so long as she could get them back by noon today, as we had a trip planned that is already not the way it was planned... . and she called at 7 am to say that they had missed the plane, would be late... . we are waiting with our RV, en route to the airport.  Sometime's father's day is not all it is cracked up to be.  But the best thing about being a parent is knowing that you are giving them something that they need that nobody else can give them, and you and my DH have that in spades!  So you both get to celebrate the best part of fathers day.  Know that you are valued. 

[pilgrim]

Good news - from an unexpected source.  On father's day my ex's new husband asked "why are the kids still here?" and ex informed him "they won't go to their dad."  Then he stepped in and talked to them, which he rarely does (because they ignore him).  He's a good guy and we get along well.  He told D12 and D15 that their mom has a legal and moral obligation to return them to me on time, and that if they don't like the rules at my house they should talk to me about it instead of running away, that they should be grateful they have both a mom and a dad who love and care for them very much, and other wise and true things.  End result: both kids came back to me Monday night and have been with me since.

It's kind of a miracle.  And my ex is still emailing me demanding that I be more firm about restricting computer use - while doing no limits at her house.  It's clear to me now how her game worked, and eventually the kids responded in favor of her.  I've relaxed my rules and realize this is how the game is played.

I got the teen love and logic book and am going through it.

I'm so happy to get my kids back.  Still need to work on the relationships, but being together is the necessary first step.  Really appreciate your comments and support.

[momtara]

Ex's new husband sounds reasonable.  How long will that marriage last?

[livednlearned]

It's kind of a miracle.  And my ex is still emailing me demanding that I be more firm about restricting computer use - while doing no limits at her house.  It's clear to me now how her game worked, and eventually the kids responded in favor of her.  I've relaxed my rules and realize this is how the game is played.

That is a miracle! I played a similar role with N/BPDx husband's ex wife and my former stepson. There were some big stand-offs, especially when former stepson was graduating from high school and all kinds of hormonal rockets were going off. Driving into telephone poles and totaling his car, getting picked up for underage drinking, dropping out of college after 2 months. Fun times with teen agers. Looking back, I can see that N/BPDx was more intent on destroying his ex than helping his kid. I'm so glad you have this guy as a potential ally around these issues, even if his motives are to get the girls out of the house... .

[GaGrl]

My DH's ex-wife is now with a very, very nice (and codependent) man.

DH and I say a prayer every night for his health and continued well-being.

[pilgrim]

Yes, ex's new husband is the "buffer" to absorb the rages that would otherwise be directed at my kids.  And a very decent guy.  Funny how the decent and the indecent pair up.

It's really good for me to run this by others who understand, and hear back from you.  I've had 5 teenagers living with me this week (my own + 3 nieces/nephews).  Took kids back to their mom today.  Time for a break!