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Hope26
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« on: June 20, 2014, 04:37:45 PM »

Hi Everyone,

I've been non-communicative for some time because my former biggest problem with my UBPDh has taken a big turn for the better.  I'm glad I told him I suspected BPD, because he's been working on the raging issues and now they are pretty rare, thank God.  But still, I have to deal with my next-biggest issue, which is the fact that he doesn't like having to socialize with people at all.  When required to do so, especially making 'small talk' etc., or having company for more than an hour or two, I can sense him getting wound up to the point I get concerned he will lose his temper at our guests or at me.  This was brought to the forefront today when I got an e-mail stating that a cousin of mine from another part of the country may be coming to visit for a day or two or several.  If I were still single it would not even be an issue; I like this person.  But knowing my H as I do, this is enough to put me into a panic.  All I can think of is to try to get one of my nearby relatives to offer a room, or offer the guest and his wife our house and suggest we stay in our R.V., thus limiting the amount of social contact necessary.  Do any of you deal with these issues?  If so, how do you handle things?  Also, is it normal for them to be so allergic to having to socialize with others?  He puts on such a good act when others are around, I don't think they can even tell; I didn't see it before we got married, but I sure do now.
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2014, 02:33:08 PM »

hello i am not on to often

but yes they act totally different around others, i have been with my husband for 16 years and he was told about BPD but doesn't accept it.

things with us are much better i had to set many limits and use those tools to stop his raging. they are far and few in-between. i am glad things are working for you is he or has he considered the therapy for Bpd ? are you seeing a counselor for you? 
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Hope26
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2014, 03:57:18 PM »

Hi Wanda,

Thanks so much for responding; I was beginning to think nobody else could relate to the social difficulties, or maybe few others have this particular challenge.  And yes, I am very grateful that the raging has decreased in frequency.  Neither one of us is in therapy; I think he would agree to it if I pushed, but neither one of us has a lot of faith in psychiatrists or psychologists.  And he is doing better at controlling his temper simply to keep from losing me.  How about you?  You said things are much better thanks to the tools and your setting limits, that's great!  Did your husband get therapy in order to be told about BPD?
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2014, 04:08:18 PM »

Hi Hope

I was wondering how you broached the subject of BPD with your husband. I am wanting to tell my ex gf but everyone seems to think its a bad idea.

I know she's my ex and I should go NC and let her live her life but we have a son together and she has 2 other children and I worry whether they will turn out ok if their mum doesn't get help.
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2014, 04:28:19 PM »

yep, I have similar issues.  I also see it being a potential downfall of this r/s.  In the past few years, I have become somewhat social.  Going out several nights a week, having friends over, seeing family.  In the year+ I have been with BPDgf, I've barely had any of that.  She's declared that she never wants to meet my friends.  She makes comments if I go out.  She doesn't like certain family members of mine.  She doesn't even want her own friends over.

Not sure how to handle it, other than to just tell her I am going out to see friends, invite her along, and not worry about the rage and not feel guilty.  If she doesn't want them at our house, fine.  The issue now is that she constantly makes suicidal statements, so I feel more inclined to be home with her and don't want to risk leaving her alone.
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Hope26
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2014, 05:32:51 PM »

Hello to 'Enlighten Me'; I don't remember the exact conversation, but I remember suggesting it in a non-critical, calm way between raging episodes.  I also remember showing him an article that was entitled something like ":)oes Your Spouse Act Like Jekyll and Hyde; It May Be BPD".  I don't remember where the article came from.  It might have been advertising the 'Stop Walking on Eggshells' book, which I've also ordered and invited him to read, as well as having read it myself.  I think he related to the 'Jekyll and Hyde' comparison, because I had told him several times that it described his personality.  He is interested in psychology himself, so may not have minded a little labeling as much as others might have; maybe it even helped him understand.  I know most suggest not doing this, but every situation is unique and I think in our case it has helped.  I wish you the best of luck.  To Max Sterling, I guess you can relate to the social challenges too.  Maybe trying to pursue social activities by ourselves is the key.  I think I'll have to do this when I retire or go stir-crazy.  Still, I am grateful that I have seen progress in my relationship and I hope that you do, too.  My H has never been suicidal so I don't have that concern at least if he has to be left alone sometimes.  Thanks to all who are sharing, it sure is helpful to me.
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2014, 11:52:17 PM »

Hope26, I can definitely relate to the social issues. And I know the exact panicked feeling you speak of when confronted with the possibility of placing your partner in a social position that they cannot handle.

My uBPDgf tends to be good when she first meets people and in the early stages of friendship (this is the idealisation part I suppose) but then there will be some perceived wrong doing and that is it. She will hate that person with such intensity that I can never speak of them again without her recounting the whole story (demonising them more and more each time). The trouble is that she has done this with every one of my friends and even worse so with every one of my family members.

So now it is very difficult for me to have anyone over to our house. Which is particularly stressful for me when it comes to family because I have the kind of family that happily drop by unannounced. But now I doubt any of them feel welcome after being witness to some of my partner's blowouts (but that's another story).

It used to be very difficult for me to watch my partner alienate herself from everyone and I would try to stop it but it would just make her paint me black along with whoever else was copping it. Now I go out to see my friends and family. I don't make a secret of it, I always let her know where I am going. I try to ignore her insecurities about me doing this and I think she also tries to ignore those feelings in herself because she logically knows it would go against her morals to try and stop me from seeing my loved ones. I don't go to as many family events as I used to. When one does come up I will let her know about it and tell her that I would love it if she wanted to come but there is no pressure. I make it clear that it is her decision to come or not and if she does decide to come we have a conversation about how long we will stay and that if she is feeling overwhelmed she needs to tell me and we will leave before she has a blowout. I listen to what she says very carefully during these conversations and I stick to whatever agreements we make. If she says she only wants us to stay until 4pm then bang on 4pm I make sure we are leaving. This has worked magic for me, even to the point of her saying she enjoyed herself! I think it is that she feels so out of control when around others so its important for me to show her she does have some control about how much exposure she has to endure in social settings.

Best I can suggest is try to have a conversation with your hubby about it. Ask him what arrangement he would prefer. If he feels like he has a bit of control over the situation it might be less overwhelming for him and therefore less stressful for you.

Good luck
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2014, 06:27:22 AM »

Prolonged socializing can create stress for them. My partner suffers from this, it is not a shyness issue as she can openly and warmly approach anyone. In fact can pull off the perfect salesman pitch and techniques of mirroring and make others feel good very quickly. BUT this comes back to not having a real sense of identity and so mirrors and idealizes those around them. This however is really no more than a facade, not a devious one as such, but simply a replacement for real lack of self.

Prolonged contact with others brings out fears of being exposed as their apparent knowledge and experience about which they talk is borrowed and not that deep. This scares them as they want to be liked and feel others will see through them and criticize. Avoiding these situations becomes their coping tool. All or nothing, if they can't pull off the facade, they avoid. Just being relaxed and being real is simply an alien concept.

This why sometimes you may think you have had a perfect time, all went well, then afterwards it all goes to pot, as the stress of keeping up the appearance was just too much, and they blame everyone else.
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Hope26
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2014, 03:11:25 PM »

Jacq189 and Waverider, thanks so much for your insightful observations.  Jacq, I can relate to just about all of your experiences.  Friends and family end up either with perceived wrong doing or perceived character flaws, that become an excuse for not socializing.  I have also used the technique of giving him a pre-agreed departure time from parties and so forth, which usually makes us the first ones to have to leave.  I use an excuse of having to go home to let the dog out or something.  It's worth it to keep his stress level under control, and probably does give him more semblance of control over the situation.  That might be helpful to others as well, since it works for you and me.  And one of the issues with having people to your place is that there is no control over when the visit may end, in some cases.  So I guess the solution is to try to limit vists from others and go out to do the visiting yourself, and to do so alone if necessary.  Thanks again for your input.
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2014, 04:27:10 PM »

and go out to do the visiting yourself, and to do so alone if necessary.  Thanks again for your input.

This is important, even if it causes dramas, otherwise you can eventually find yourself isolated. with closer friends and family it may be better to try being closer to the truth rather than making up excuses, as it starts to become transparent, and does you no good personally to keep making up white lies
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2014, 06:05:32 PM »

Hope, My uBPDH is beyond antisocial.  It is weird because he is not exactly shy or introverted but he loathes being in groups of people.  He says he has severe anxiety and that he is so hypersensitive about everything.  He says that he always feels hurt when he is in public.  He hid this well while we were dating and early in our marriage but now that its out he is refusing to go to anything.  Parties (mine or his families), He has no friends by choice, he never goes to school meetings or the kids events.  I am 8 and a half months pregnant and I had to beg him to go on the hospital tour with me.  He stayed in the back of the group... . separate from everyone.  When he does go somewhere he will disappear and we will have to track him down.  He will refuse to hug people... . even his own family.  He won't go to a movie at a peak time to avoid crowds and always sits away in the corner.  It got really bad when he started avoiding coming through the front door because my kids would be there with a friend or two.  He would sneak through the back door and when I started locking the back door he actually climbed through the window. 

It sucks beyond belief because I am a total people person and I feel like my spirit is just squashed sometimes. How many movies can I see for GOD sake.  My biggest fear is that he has made comments about how he hopes our unborn son will be.  He will say things like "I hope he doesn't like team sports, I hope he prefers being at home instead of with friends, I hope he doesn't have a girlfriend until he is in his 20's... . and so on.  I am so scared that he will try to isolate our son and if I try to get out he will give me grief or manipulate me by withholding money so that I can't sign him up for preschool or a kids group.

 

He is already super sensitive and will definitely try to smother our son.  He did it to his 21 year old daughter.   He used money and lawyers to bully his ex-wife and alienated his daughter from her mother when she was 6 months old and she is totally socially inept.  She can't make friends or keep a job.  He supports her 100% and loves that she is completely dependent on him.  He bashes his ex-wife constantly.  His daughter is like a puppet and he holds the controls.  He thinks it is good.  I am afraid he is going to try to use his money to isolate me as well.  He is not a well man.  He is smart and wealthy but not well... . that is a scary combo... . I don't really know how to handle this. 

He asked me for a divorce 2 months ago when I told him it would not be appropriate to take our son to work with him everyday.  He flipped out... . "nobody will ever tell me how to love my son"  I told him I was concerned about him providing for me when the baby is born so I could provide for my older kids and he told me to go back to work full time.  When I said he would need to pay for daycare he said he would just take the baby to work with him everyday?  Yeah that would be stimulating for an infant

Anyways... . I could go on and on but it sounds like you get the point.

Yes my uBPDH has a huge antisocial aspect to his personality.  He even says judgmental things comparing social people to cows in a herd... . peeing on each other and swatting each other with their tails. He describes himself as this enlightened being up in the tree looking down on the cows.  How do you reason with that.
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2014, 06:40:28 PM »

I know that certain social situations make my uBPDh uncomfortable, but unlike many situations already described here, he goes the opposite route and goes out of his way to be overly friendly and kind at parties, gatherings, or even phone calls from friends. In fact, it's difficult to get him to leave parties at a reasonable hour, and if he does something social without me, he will be gone for hours with no phone calls to me, no response to texts, and always comes home hours later than planned. I think he goes above and beyond with friends and even family to make them think that he is 100% invested and involved in what is happening, even though he doesn't care much at all. Case in point: a few weeks ago, we had dinner with a couple who are more my friends than his. He was very chatty and affable the entire time we were with them, but as soon as we got in the car to come home, he was silent. I asked him if he had a good time, and he said "It was ok. Whatever." Silent treatment the rest of the hour ride home.

So, I know he's not comfortable in social situations, but he behaves differently than most!
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Hope26
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2014, 04:42:35 PM »

Waverider, I agree that we need to maintain social contact even if we have to do it alone.  Though in my case, his need to know what I am doing will generally get him to accompany me, even if he hates going somewhere.  I also agree in trying to be truthful whenever possible; that's why I confronted him with my thoughts about BPD.  I have also told my closest friends and relatives, though I haven't gotten much feedback and am not sure they really understand what I'm talking about.  To Mrs. Hyde, I empathize and sympathize with you deeply; we at least don't have kids in the mix.  I'm not sure I could be on the 'staying' board if I had that to contend with.  And Cat21, I wonder if your friends really see through his apparent friendliness?  I think one of the things that makes this illness so difficult is that they 'put on a good act' for others, especially if they're high-functioning.  Also, while most everyone has heard of psychological disorders such as bipolar personality, schizophrenia, etc., almost nobody has heard of BPD.  I hadn't ever heard of it myself until I felt the need to do research to try to figure out what I was dealing with.
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2014, 05:40:45 PM »

Just wanted to add that this issue cropped up for me again.  My sister says she will be at my parents house this weekend without her kids, and I suggested to BPDgf that we can go visit my parents for the weekend out of the city.  We'd been talking about that for awhile.  But, she said, "I know your sister will want to go hiking or something and I won't want to go hiking, so do we have to go?"  If this keeps up, I will have to test the "leaving her behind" route, but I'd rather test that for something that lasts a few hours rather than a whole weekend. 

BPD is so weird.  You can read in books or magazine articles about healthy and unhealthy relationships.  My GF has claimed to have read all kinds of self help books on relationships and communication.  And it's like she read an article on what men need in relationships, and did the opposite!  And yet she can't figure out why men keep leaving her. 
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2014, 05:43:55 PM »

Waverider, I agree that we need to maintain social contact even if we have to do it alone.  Though in my case, his need to know what I am doing will generally get him to accompany me, even if he hates going somewhere. 

The aim in doing your own thing is not exclude him, but to give him the choice to either be involved or not, and you the choice to have a life, if he chooses not to. You also have the choice not to have to suffer his "martyrdom" also.


I also agree in trying to be truthful whenever possible; that's why I confronted him with my thoughts about BPD.  I have also told my closest friends and relatives, though I haven't gotten much feedback and am not sure they really understand what I'm talking about. 

By careful with the use of "confrontation" it can easy move into the area of trying to sell your version of reality. eg You are XYZ rather than this appears to be XYZ to me. Subtle shift, the first is accusatory, denying his right to state his view of reality, and triggers defensive confrontation. The second is simply you exercising you right to state how you are seeing the world.

No one who doesn't live within a relationship such as this will really understand, even professionals in the field will not quite see it through your eyes. So too much information (or again trying to 'sell" your reality) is futile and can be frustrating, so a simplistic version works best. eg "X cant attend as it causes him anxiety issues in social settings which can make him act out of sorts, its nothing personal". Whatever fits your situation. At least that way whoever you are dealing with doesn't start to think they are being constantly fobbed off and end up believing you are just a superficial person who constantly makes up excuses, otherwise they loose faith in you overall. It can end up with you living a facade, which gives you a shallow quality of life.
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2014, 05:51:26 PM »

 

BPD is so weird.  You can read in books or magazine articles about healthy and unhealthy relationships.  My GF has claimed to have read all kinds of self help books on relationships and communication.  And it's like she read an article on what men need in relationships, and did the opposite!  And yet she can't figure out why men keep leaving her. 

That is the hard side of BPD they simply cant seem to actually take the obvious steps to reverse destructive behavior, even they are capable at times of understanding exactly what they do wrong. It's inherent self sabotage, totally baffling.

Its like they wake up in the morning and hit themselves on the head with a brick, then go to the doctors looking for a pill to cure these mysterious bumps. This keeps happening, and eventually it is discovered what they are doing, it is openly discussed and they admit it. The next day they get up in the morning, hit themself on the head with a brick and off to the doctors again complaining of mysterious bumps. No wonder people give up trying to help them.>>validation they are a hopeless case, so pick up a bigger brick. Round it goes.
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2014, 06:27:32 PM »

Waverider - that's a pretty good analogy!  Relating to the social issue - it's just as baffling.  I'll hear complaints about how this friend or that friend "dumped" her or is not a good friend because that friend is too judgmental, complains too much, or is too negative.  Yet she does the same in return, will sometimes admit she does the same in return, and a few hours later be complaining about how she is so lonely and has no friends.  So, she claims she doesn't like being around people that are too negative, admits she is too negative herself, then complains because a friend "dumped" her complaining she is too negative. 
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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2014, 09:16:34 PM »

Hello Hope, to address your original post, yes, my uBPDh is very antisocial.

He blew a fuse on the night we got married... Very private celebration, just a few of my friends came over.

That scenario left me traumatized for life and damaged/changed my relationship with my friends, even though they did nothing wrong... . i had to be on my h's side, of course.

It also reflects how they drop the façade once they're sure they have you and it's very difficult for you to leave them.

It's five years later, and I don't have a social life.
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Hope26
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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2014, 06:21:54 PM »

Wow Lena, I am so sorry that happened to you... . every time I post on this board it helps me a lot, but I also realize there are others whose lives are more difficult than mine.  My uBPDh has seldom, if ever, thrown a 'rage' at anyone but me.  So though we don't have much of a social life, he hasn't actually alienated any of my friends.  Though I know it could happen if I pushed too much on the socializing.  Waverider, your advice is good; the fake excuses I've used have been for people not real close to us; with my family and closer friends I've probably tried too hard to explain the real truth, which as you said they probably don't understand anyway.  They might understand if I just say he gets 'tense in social situations'.  (Understatement of the year for some of our loved ones, right?)
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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2014, 07:43:15 PM »

I've probably tried too hard to explain the real truth, which as you said they probably don't understand anyway. 

I called these "Sheldon" moments (from TV show Big Bang Theory), that way i can have a laugh at myself when i catch myself doing it.

Funnily enough it has taught me to be aware of not doing this over explaining in other areas of my life too. I am acutely aware of it when others do it aswell, and can see everyones ears shutting off.
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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2014, 07:58:16 PM »

Funnily enough it has taught me to be aware of not doing this over explaining in other areas of my life too. I am acutely aware of it when others do it aswell, and can see everyones ears shutting off.

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Or eyes glazing over.  Amazing watching it in action.  Some people don't notice it at all and keep yapping away.
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« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2014, 08:23:05 PM »

Funnily enough it has taught me to be aware of not doing this over explaining in other areas of my life too. I am acutely aware of it when others do it aswell, and can see everyones ears shutting off.

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Or eyes glazing over.  Amazing watching it in action.  Some people don't notice it at all and keep yapping away.

This is in itself a  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) for potential PD. They are wrapped up in their own need to talk rather than effectively communicating
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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2014, 08:49:05 PM »

Social activities and crowds cause high anxiety in pwBPD.  According to my son, he feels as if everyone in the room is staring at him and judging him.  He hates being in a group, because he feels inadequate and constantly compares himself to others and what they have accomplished ... . negatively, of course.

It is all part of their lack of self and low self-esteem.  Some pwBPD are brilliant, accomplished, and well-known, but they do not see themselves that way. 

My son avoids family gatherings completely. We have all accepted, and respected, the fact that he will not attend because it makes him so uncomfortable.  It is what it is.

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« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2014, 01:13:15 PM »

Hello

many years ago through therapy i had my own he had his i found out about BPD... I was told if he was told he wouldn't accept it. so they taught me the skills and tools i need to learn,

  i was like well it can't be any worse then it is now... i was scared of him and his rages, so i am guessing his therapist told him because he never went back, mostly because my husband was mad and didn't want to go back. so i had to set boundaries and limits to stay in the relationship, and in time things just got better i told him if they didn't i would leave/  that was 16 years ago you can read my story under successes on top. he to this day does not know about BPD i think he was told by his therapist and he chose to eqnore it,
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« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2014, 02:13:57 PM »

Wanda

Either your H does not have true BPD (he could have one of the mental illnesses or personality disorders that mimic BPD) OR you are a VERY lucky woman.

Either way, I am happy for you.
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Wanda
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: in second marriage for 20 years on valentines day
Posts: 2584



« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2014, 03:05:54 PM »

 i am not sure if my husband has BPD he has all the symptoms of BPD.

especially the black and white. and the rages . it use to be horrible, either way i had to learn the tools skills and boundaries. him in AA helps and him being high functioning helps. 
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