Explain: Fear of abandonment - But she tells you to move out

[Fanie]

Explain: Fear of abandonment - But she tells you to move out

This "double standard" confuses me ... .

She is triggered and tell you to move out - but the main thing with BPD is fear of abandonment ?

Or is there someone else in her life that she can / wants  thinks to turn to ?

Is she aware that the someone is only "temporary" ? or does she hoe it can work out with number 2 ?

Or is she there just for the "kick" of the attention received

Or does she just want "time-out" ?

Or wishing for a new "seducer" phase ?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Jacq189]

I have pondered on this one a lot myself as every time we fight my uBPDgf will break up with me. No matter how small of an argument! It used to be me who would get kicked out of our house (often physically) and now it is her who leaves. The answer I think is in how I used to respond to her when she would do this. No matter who was at fault she would get a reaction out of me that was outpouring love and pleading with her not to go and then to please come back. I would tell her that what ever the issue (usually never a big deal in my eyes) we could work it out. So even though from my side she was leaving and we were breaking up from her side she was being showered with love and attachment from me and so getting what she most desired at that moment of her insecurity.

Now days I don't freak out. I have a lot less issues with co-dependency now and I also know that she will come back... . and if she ever didn't come back I know I could deal with it because I have had so much practice of thinking she really wasn't going to come back.

I think she still breaks up with me simply because that is the pattern she has developed with me and maybe I do still unwittingly giver her extra attention when she does this but it certainly doesn't cause me as much pain as it used to.

I don't know if your gf is serious about ending your relationship or not but perhaps the answer is still the same. Maybe she suddenly gets a reaction out of you (or even someone else) that she doesn't know how to get otherwise. Whatever her reasons I can assure you it is coming from a place of desperation and pain that she is trying to so hard to minimise in herself.

[maxsterling]

That's the "push/pull" we talk about here.  Or the "I hate you, don't leave me". 

You probably will never be able to completely understand it.  But from what I understand, the pwBPD fears both attachment AND abandonment at the same time.  I don't think there is a way for a nonBPD to feel what the pwBPD is feeling, so trying to put a rational spin on it may be futile.

But this has characterized my r/s, and it's so very difficult for me to deal with, and makes it hard for me to trust anything.  She's spent countless hours complaining of all the things I do wrong and the "deal breakers" and how we should break up.  And when I finally say, "you are right,  this relationship is getting us nowhere, we should break up,"  she will rage about how I ruined her life by "dumping" her, and then threaten to kill herself and how that will be my fault.

I've scratched my head enough over this, I practically have a bald spot.

[ziniztar]

Isn't it simple? Whenever there is a perceived sign of potential loss of the relationship - pwBPD protect themself by taking control. They leave themselves and manage their emotion, in stead of waiting around for you to break up with them - which would be a bigger surprise, failure, hence many many painful emotions.

It is the fear of abandonment that drives them to take control - and leave you.

[Ceruleanblue]

I get constant threats of "pack your ___ and move home". He knows I hate being cussed at, and he knows I don't want our marriage to end. It's control, and it's also cruel. Even his therapist has told him to stop threatening, but he won't.

In fact, tonight we are supposed to have a talk to see if we are staying together, or splitting up. He has a list, I'm sure, of things I need to work on. I've done that so much in the past, and he says I didn't change enough, or get it right, or just plain failed. It's a set up. I'm willing to compromise in our marriage, I'm willing to work on ME, yet he won't address his issues hardly at all. He is now saying I need to "obey" him. Seriously, in this day and age? He says I'm supposed to be quiet unless he says I can talk. How does he not see this is abnormal, and it's abuse?

I can't become a puppet for him, but that is what he wants. People with BPD hurt and control those around them, and threats to leave are usually a surefire way to do that. They use and abuse you, then some of them just leave. A lot of them though, stay, but use the constant threats to keep you in line or to get their own way. They really have a hard time functioning as caring, considerate partners. Only their feelings matter.

[an0ught]

Isn't it simple? Whenever there is a perceived sign of potential loss of the relationship - pwBPD protect themself by taking control. They leave themselves and manage their emotion, in stead of waiting around for you to break up with them - which would be a bigger surprise, failure, hence many many painful emotions.

It is the fear of abandonment that drives them to take control - and leave you.

Good point - control is helping to regulate emotions. It gets tougher to it when one feels helpless and cornered. Also often the actual thing is less scary than the fear of the thing. So dealing with leaving can be easier than dealing on an ongoing basis of a breakup risk.

It sort of makes sense - but it makes little sense in a normal relationship and if you desire to maintain relationships - there it is a recipe for self sabotage.

There is little we can do except:

- leave maneuver space - don't corner - show respect

- validate abandonment events, fear of abandonment

- reduce excessive closeness and replace it with more independence over time

[Grey Kitty]

Imagine a teeter-totter. One side is up and the other is down. The fear of engulfment and the fear of abandonment each sit on an end (inside the mind of the pwBPD).

At any given time, they react almost blindly to the fear of the one "on top." and forget the other one... . until the balance changes.

Trying to balance between those two fears has to be horribly exhausting.

... . anyhow, that is the perspective I've got on what is happening. As for what you can do about it, I think a0 nailed it.

[maxsterling]

- reduce excessive closeness and replace it with more independence over time

Can you explain what you mean here?  Perhaps tonight is a perfect situation.  I thought she was going to trauma group tonight, so I planned an evening by myself.  She claims headache, now says she is staying home.  My emotion:  extreme frustration, bordering on panic, and bordering on anger.   Of course when I get home, she will say within the first 2 minutes "I'm hungry".  And she will not want me to cook because she feels guilty that I take care of her, and worry if we go out about spending money.  I need some distance.  And whether she knows it or not SHE needs some distance.  But, if I keep up with my plans of going to home depot and working on the house, she will b___ and moan about how I am abandoning her.  She won't do ANYTHING without me.  Yet if I invite her with me and she tags along, she will complain about how much she hates it. 

I know this is extremely unhealthy closeness.  But how do I create separation with minimal pain/rage?

[BadKitty]

I experience this and I know all of us here do. I have been told when the lease is up he isn't moving back in with his dad, yet we go shopping for new things like patio furniture and a new TV, ect. I have been told when you get home all of your things will be on the porch. The next day things are fine and we are talking about moving to a new place when the lease is up.

He has told me he is not used to being with someone 24-7, he has never lived with another woman and he is 41 years old. Before we were together, he told me he is so tired of being lonely, he would be happy if lived together because even if we weren't in the same room, as long as we were under the same roof he would feel better.

Very confusing, isn't it? They are afraid to be alone and also afraid when things feel too close.

[ziniztar]

I know this is extremely unhealthy closeness.  But how do I create separation with minimal pain/rage?

What helps is consistency. And moderation. As a pwBPD's world is split into two extremes, your job is to stay in the middle. Explore the fifty shades of gray  . And I don't mean your job in the way that you're obligated to do that to your pwBPD. I mean that you are obligated to do that to yourself. If you don't, your world turns into a black and white, spiraling vortex (either up or down) where you constantly swim with the tide and feel exhausted. Not swimming downwards, and not swimming upwards, does not mean you have you separate yourself from your SO. It means that you validate a pwBPD's feelings in such a way they start seeing their emotion is a little heavy.

Let's take an example. My dBPDbf was outrageously happy when our team won a world cup match with a crushing 5-1. He got really annoying (positivity can be annoying as well) so I validated that positive emotion by normalizing: "it's quite normal to be happy after such a win, right?" "it's good that we won, yet we've always passed the first poule, it does not mean we're the next world champion". And he calmed down. "Yeah you're right."

How do you create separation with minimum rage? Sometimes it can mean you still do the same stuff but in a different way. You're still together a lot, but you don't give in to the excessive demand of attention. You go read a book. You go do the laundry. You're together - but not in a way Siamese twins are together. In the beginning, your SO might respond heavily. But if you stay consistent, he/she will learn that that distance does not mean you will leave. And the more you grow into it, the bigger the distance can get. And you might end up doing groceries by yourself while she is staying home to do the laundry.

[Boss302]

Unless I'm way off, the threat to leave is actually an invitation to engage in emotional drama with her, and BPDs love emotional drama. And I'll tell you a dirty little secret about those of us who have ever "caretaken" for one: we're just as addicted to the drama as they BPD is. We've dealt with it for so long that it's all we know. And BPDs understand this quite well.

I also don't think the fear of abandonment quite "hits it" for a BPD - I think they're more scared of emptiness, of nothingness, than being abandoned per se. And living in a constant state of drama and conflict is better than living in nothingness.

I'd use some validation here - maybe something like "I can see where in this current miserable state, you'd feel like breaking up seems is an option, but is it REALLY what you want?" Validate her feelings but keep the drama out of it. And maybe a break up IS what she wants.

[an0ught]

I know this is extremely unhealthy closeness.  But how do I create separation with minimal pain/rage?

Zinzar had some good points and I would like to expand on one aspect - consistency.

It is easy to understand consistency as in consistent behavior and there is true value in it. Consistent behavior sets expectations and establishes norms. When we act independently of whatever drama is on the stage we can over time establish another stage on which a calmer play is acted.

But then we are not only in the process of stabilizing new behavior patters. We are also in the process of breaking old and establishing new patterns. We need to balance consolidating wins and advancing on new territory. In that light your goal of " minimal pain/rage" risks leading you astray. There is no change without some pain to others and/or ourselves. We are shifting existing rules and boundaries in the relationship. What used to be unthinkable e.g. spending a day apart following different goals becomes a thinkable option in the relationship. Such a big change will trigger emotions and maybe anxiety on both sides. There is a real risk of upset, experience of uncomfortable feelings and maybe even pain if we change the established order.

In figuring out what a manageable size of a change would be it is easy to be swayed by the upset/pain of the pwBPD as it would be a reasonable thing to do with a more rationale person - pain is somewhat proportional to the stuff one copes with. PwBPD tend to experience infinite pain pretty quickly and that pushes us towards microscopic steps. It is worth contemplating that with microscopic steps we need a very long time and the status quo in the relationship is also continuously painful. Ideally we would discuss the change step with our partner and when that is possible - great - commitment from both sides helps. But often we need to decide unilaterally, have to focus on the part we control (similar to boundaries) and choose a step size that we believe all can manage. And then take the risk and do it (communicate, act assertively, act consistently, being mindful and if needed flexible - see also DEARMAN).

So it it less about minimizing pain but accepting pain and moving beyond it. Less about avoiding conflict and more about being assertive and risking smaller conflicts to better the situation.

Last but not least - what we want to bring about are changes for the better. And when we got a step ahead it is important to celebrate it. There are many steps still ahead but we are building momentum.

[waverider]

What we often assume as them wanting control, is really them preventing us from controlling them (or at least perception of it).

There is no marginal zone between Help me>:)ont control me. This is the basis for push/pull

Help me =rescuer role

Dont control me= persecutor role

Both these positions keep them locked in victim role, where they feel safe, as nothing is their fault or responsibility. You do it>Its your fault

[kfifd196]

My uBPD Wife went to AA... . It was her support group and she went for 4 years before meeting me.  She usually went to a women's meeting and that's where 99% of her friends were from, including her best friend.  She had pretty much removed all of her past friends from her life or vice versa.  I always felt, that no matter what, she would always turn to her best friend and never worry that she wouldn't "leave her"... . She didn't have the vulnerability with her, that she had with me, so she didn't worry about it and felt she could always confide in her best friend or the support group... . And by telling ME to leave the house, she was "in control" still... .

[Grey Kitty]

But how do I create separation with minimal pain/rage?

You cannot prevent pain or rage on her part. Changing the game will probably generate some extra stuff. If you want to change the patterns that aren't working for you, you have to accept that there will be some blowback over it. Once you change things to the "new normal" there won't be as much.

Sometimes you end up crunching a few eggshells.

[waverider]

But how do I create separation with minimal pain/rage?

You cannot prevent pain or rage on her part. Changing the game will probably generate some extra stuff. If you want to change the patterns that aren't working for you, you have to accept that there will be some blowback over it. Once you change things to the "new normal" there won't be as much.

Sometimes you end up crunching a few eggshells.

You need to crack a few eggs to make an omelette.

Only way to minimize pain is to not vary what you do, or drag it out. Consistency without JADE.

Everyone eventually gets bored arguing with a rock everyday

[ziniztar]

What we often assume as them wanting control, is really them preventing us from controlling them (or at least perception of it).

There is no marginal zone between Help me>:)ont control me. This is the basis for push/pull

Help me =rescuer role

Dont control me= persecutor role

Both these positions keep them locked in victim role, where they feel safe, as nothing is their fault or responsibility. You do it>Its your fault

Interesting. I had a conversationele about this topic with my dBPDbf yesterday. He got extremely mad at me for worrying about his schedule this week (and possible hours of sleep = nearly any). I was obviously put in the persecuter role. The next day he had an argument with a friend and he asked what I thought of it. Again: the other guy did everything wrong and he was perfect. I asked him if I could share an observation with him, which he was OK with. So I shared my view of conflict and (shared) responsability. That I know it must be hard for him to admit - or maybe he does not even see it when he's in it - that he has some responsibility as well. I wonder what he can do about this now he can start to maybe recognize it.