Staying after a diagnosis...

[Youcantfoolme]

Whether they were officially diagnosed or after coming to the realization that your partner may be suffering with BPD, did it make your decision to stay, harder or easier? I imagine it could somewhat, put your mind at ease knowing that this is a disorder and not something they are purposely doing just to hurt you. At the same time, after reading many, many different resources about it online and hearing others experiences, it makes it seem like a very scary and hopeless situation to voluntarily endure. Besides "love" or having children, what encourages you to want to stick it out? Is it fear, guilt or obligation? Or do you want to "save" or help them? Or is it something entirely different like you're afraid they may harm you or even themselves? Are you afraid of losing everything because they control your finances and household?

If you've decided to stay, what steps if any, did you take to try to improve the situation and learn how to cope? I'm just curious because I've been reading a lot about this disorder in the recent months and I can't imagine having to deal with this type of behavior as a grown adult.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[maxsterling]

Learning about the disorder encouraged me to stay.  Actually, hearing her admit she had this gave me hope in that awareness was the first step in healing.  Had she not been open that she has issues, I would have been long gone, and just chalked it up as another abusive relationship. 

Why do I stay?  A good chunk of why I am still here is because she lives with me and has NOBODY else to go to.  If she had a close friend she could conceivably room with, I probably would have told her to leave several times over.  And if she had her own place, I am pretty sure after one of the rages I would have just gone NC.  Another reason I stay is that I genuinely fear her hurting herself if things were to end.

Yes, I immensely love this woman, but I am slowly realizing it is at the expense of my health.  The fact that I love her is not enough of a reason to stay anymore.  I was really close to just ending it yesterday, and it was the lack of her having another place to go that stopped me.  The love I have for her can't overcome the tremendous hurt when she rages, and the chaos and constant unsettled life I've had the past year. 

[Soul searching]

I wish I could answer your question as this is what I am faced with at the moment. My spouse wBPD isn't aware she has this disorder any she hasn't made any acknowledgement that she has any sort of mental health issue.  Everything is still my and everybody else's fault, everyone around her has the problem not her. She raged yesterday on me and I swore that was it BUT like MAXSTERLING mentioned most of her friendships have been ended by her actions and words therefore she has nowhere to turn.

I am in the mindset whereby I'm trying to save her I guess, not just for her or me but our children. For better or worse... .and I signed on to that notion and agreement on our wedding day. I eagerly await the day where she realizes that she indeed has BPD and commits to a treatment schedule/ program.   I know this might be a pipe dream but I have faith that I'm only given what I can handle,  this BPD is sure testing the boundaries of this faith but I'm still trying. 

Like you I need to take care of my health, as every time I'm faced with a crisis moment and I'm not of sound mind and body,  the personal insults etc. get to me and I'm not able to remember that this is the disorder talking and not the woman I fell in love with and married.  I then fall into the trap where I take it personally and defend myself or my children from these verbal attacks and irrational displays.    Like I mentioned above this is a very fresh memory as one of these events just occurred yesterday, and yet two hours later it's like nothing happened at all.

If we don't try to help who will? 

[ziniztar]

He mentioned it to me on the 3rd date. I was quite infatuated by then (in between he was gone for a month with lots of text messages etc) and I did not want to break it off because of it. It did take me a month to decide I was up for it. I read a lot about it, and read that pwBPD are helped with structured lives and some stability.

I think I wanted to help. I also knew that I had been in an earlier relationship with a guy suffering from something else, that did not want to seek help himself. It drove me made and cost me a lot of energy. I knew I would not go down that path anymore. And I knew it would be different this time, because he was honest about his condition to me (which showed quite some courage) and was actively seeking help himself. No one sent him to a psychatrist - he went there.

I'm a Starting Gate Rescuer I think, however I've evolved myself into a more centered person that is aware of her own needs (partially thanks to training at work, partially thanks to coaching I sought myself). I knew it would be difficult, but having a diagnosis also meant being able to read up on it and not internalizing his behaviour. Still happy about my choice  .

[Allmessedup]

I knew from the onset about her being dx with BPD.  However in my case she had already underwent years and years of intensive therapy for it and regained the majority of her life back long before she met me. 

She got physically sick with autoimmune disease and her BPD behaviors began to get less and less controlled as time passed.  We have been together for 4 years now with a break for three months that was completely nc. 

When we got back together I was upfront about her BPD behaviors and she began practicing her skills more consciously.

Why do I stay?

Because I believe in her and in us as a couple.  Because I do want to help.  And while I will never be able to fix the disorder I believe I do help her combat it by modifying my own behaviors and being a stable support for her.   I don't regret my choice for a moment .  And honestly I do love her very much

[reluctanthusband]

It wasn't an actual diagnosis but the counselor did tell me that he thought she was a mild BPD.  In all reality it kinda made it worse and harder on me not because of the decision to stay or not, but because I felt as if I had been lied to and my livelihood stolen from me.  I had guys telling me left and right to leave her our first couple of years but because I "hurt her feelings and damaged her" with a VERY small issue with pornography I brought into the marriage and subsequently ended I felt I had been the cause of all of her self-image and trust issues. 

Imagine for almost 10 years I had changed my way of thinking, friends, work habits and I thought I was fighting the good fight because it was my fault.  She told me that she had an affair 8 year prior(months before our 10 anniversary) and blamed it on me.  She said I treated her badly and that I left her vulnerable, and that she had developed this alternate reality in her head that I was cheating on her while stationed overseas.  This is what led us to counseling and BPD.  Of course she believes that she is not BPD and thinks it is everybody else's fault that they are not working on themselves.  What made it even harder is that when I did find out all of this Affair/BPD she had woven a life that made it almost IMPOSSIBLE for me to leave because to do so would be selfish.  We have 3 kids(D12,S7,S6) and the two boys are High Functioning Autistic. A lot of debt and I'm in the military a divorce right now would mean almost all the money out of my pocket for her living expenses for at least 6 months, the eventual hiring of a High conflict divorce attorney which she will also do so, Bankruptcy, loss of my security clearance and job classification due to that loss and if I'm allowed to retire half of my retirement for life and alimony for ATLEAST 10 years or more. 

I live in a constant state of anxiety because I'm to honorable to leave and I can take care of the kids better if we are together.  But the ball is in her court right now, the only thing that triggers the nuclear option is if she is unfaithful again.  I will burn the world down to take those kids from her and keep her from getting as little as possible from me.  She doesn't deserve the life I have given her so far and I'll be damned if she will be able to torment those kids in my absence.

[Youcantfoolme]

I really feel for each and every one of you. It take a certain kind of person to be able to stick with this. Does learning to cope mean, walking on eggshells for the rest of your lives? Or can you still act like your normal self and feel comfortable? I don't know if I could handle being with a BPD at this point in my life. I think I'd constantly be in a state of anxiety worrying about them and their behavior. I'd find it very hard to sit back and relax knowing that its only a matter of time until the next big traumatic event.

MASTERLING, I noticed you said "abusive relationship". Is that what most of you consider your relationships with the BPD person?

[ziniztar]

Does learning to cope mean, walking on eggshells for the rest of your lives?

No, learning to cope means you're not walking on eggshells. That you go take a shower when your SO is in a certain emotional state that you can't relate to or won't tolerate. That you time-out, validate, etc...

I can't help but read between the lines that you're not with someone who has BPD. May I ask what your background is?

[lemon flower]

I'm currently in between staying and leaving, we have LC and developped a fairly agreeable interaction. He's still one of the most important persons in my life, beside my close family, and he knows that.

My motivatons are

- solidarity : I do not agree with the common attitude to run away of eneryone who doesn't fit in the perfect picture and I refuse to join a cold heartless society in which only the fittest can survive

- my "motherinstinct" : I have no children, and no one else who really needs me and I suppose I just feel better if there's someone in my life whom I can nurse a little now and then 

- love: I don't need to categorise what kind of love this is, or to what "degree" it reaches, it's just love, it's an energy that flows between me and certain persons in my life and he's one of them

- belief: I believe that people appear in our life for a reason, and that we both need eachother to evolve in our personal growth

- hope: I keep on hoping that BPD can and will be treated better and better and that new perceptions on the disorder will appear and I believe that this forum is one of the tools to spread this information and connect people all over the globe

[maxsterling]

triss - I like your response 

Youcantfoolme - by pretty much every standard of abuse and by the definition of BPD, I'd venture that the vast majority of people involved with a pwBPD have endured abuse.  Verbal and emotional abuse for sure, emotional manipulation, and in some cases physical abuse as well.

But my point was there seems to be two ways of looking at these relationships: 

Some friends and family (and therapists) I talk to simply tell me "you are in an abusive relationship, the only solution is to get out.  There's no point in examining yourself now, because you can't objectively examine yourself while you are in the midst of abuse.  Sure, you may have some behaviors that are contributing to the chaos, but you adopted those behaviors in reaction to the abuse.  Your partner is an abuser who will always prey upon others and will never, ever change."

The other way of looking at it is:  "You are in a relationship with a mentally ill person whose illness is characterized by abusive behavior.  Your partner is not just cold-hearted and mean, they have wants and needs just like everyone else.  There are reasons you got into this relationship, and reasons why the abuse is happening.  If we examine our roles and change our attitudes, the situation can improve so that we can make more objective decisions going forward."

These are abusive relationships.  The difference I was trying to illustrate is that one school of thought tells us to just chuck it in the "abusive" bin and to just get out and don't waste energy trying to fix things.  The other school of thought tends to discourage us from immediately writing the r/s off and take a step back and examine things first.

[ziniztar]

I do have to say... If he had not told me about his diagnosis and work on it through his own motivation... I would get out. If I had kids I would work on it. Everything else in between I'd say is too much energy, people are worth a lot more than some of these r/s. I do think it's easier to work on your own issues when you're not forced to deal with someone else's all the time.

[raggedy_ann]

It made it both easier and harder, I was so relieved to know he wasn't trying to hurt me... .I felt so bad when I felt like he was trying to make me feel bad, but I used to live with the hope that he would learn from my example how I wanted to be treated, that if I just kept "being nice and sweet" he would eventually do the same.  Now that hope is gone, and that hope/expectation helped a lot. 

[Youcantfoolme]

No, learning to cope means you're not walking on eggshells. That you go take a shower when your SO is in a certain emotional state that you can't relate to or won't tolerate. That you time-out, validate, etc...

I can't help but read between the lines that you're not with someone who has BPD. May I ask what your background is?

Ziniztar, I don't think you need to read between the lines. I think I made it pretty clear that I wasn't currently in a relationship with someone who has BPD, in my original post. My background? Well its sort of a long story. You can read the entire story in the, new members section if you want but for now I will simply explain that a person with BPD is ruining my relationship with a family member of mine. This BPD has painted me completely black and won't allow the family member to have any type of relationship with me (even though he wants to have one.) recently during one of her epic, dramatic, outbursts, he came to me and confided in me that he suspects she is suffering from BPD. I'm trying to learn everything I can about this condition so I can be there for him if he needs me. Also so I can't get an understanding about what type of person I'm up against. Know thy enemy.

I ask this question because I like to see things from everyone's perspective. When my brother confided in me, he also told me that he really loves her and wants to try to work it out. I want to get a better understanding of where his head is at. I know everyone has their own reason and each couples circumstances are different but maybe hearing other people's reasons will help me gage his reasoning. I'm sorry if people disagree, but in my head, "love" isn't always enough. I can compare it to one of my Ex's who had a drug addiction. This addiction  caused behaviors, that caused problems in our relationship. I loved him, but at a certain time, love just wasn't enough. I had to take my own sanity and well being into account. My trust for him was tested and broken too many times and it was starting to take a mental and physical toll on me. I was having all these weird unexplainable health issues from all the stress. Most of it was stress I put myself through, constantly worrying about him. Eventually I broke. I couldn't handle it anymore. Looking back now I feel like he stole a good part of my twenties with his problems. No matter how much I was there for him or how hard I tried, there was nothing I could do to change him. I couldn't solve his problems. He had to.

I feel being in a relationship with someone who has BPD, especially someone who hasn't come to terms with the fact they have BPD, could be compared to that. If they aren't putting the effort into changing you're basically wasting your time. They have to want to improve it too. Maybe I am wrong. I dated someone when I was young, who may have suffered BPD. I didn't know it at the time. What he put me through, mentally, is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. It's also something I couldn't imagine dealing with in my adult life. Hearing some of your stores however, helps me understand. Unfortunately life isn't so cut and dry. There are a lot of people on this board who are a lot stronger than they think.

[ziniztar]

Hey youcantfoolme,

I'm sorry to read about your past relationship, and about the current family one being blocked. It's good that you read up about the disorder and ask around to understand it. In my opninion that's the only way to grow a little bit more empathy towards pwBPD.

There's one thing I would like to give you, when you're posting around here.

Also so I can't get an understanding about what type of person I'm up against. Know thy enemy.

The people here are in a relationship either willing or somewhat unwilling because they feel they are stuck. I checked and I see there is not really a board fit for your situation so I understand you had to pick posting somewhere. Yet the staying board is a safe place for people to interact about their experiences, without having to explain or defend their decision - we get that enough in our real time lives from our friends and/or relatives. Please bear in mind exactly that - and that using words like 'enemy' are not very friendly to us (people staying willingly) nor helping you in approaching this situation differently.

So is it your brother that is dating a pwBPD you think? How was your connection with your brother before she came along?

[Youcantfoolme]

Zinzatar I'm sorry. You're right. Maybe using the term enemy wasn't a great way to describe it. I'm 100% sympathetic to everyone's unique situation here. I think I feel so strongly about this because I have been in a relationship with someone who was either BPD or had really strong BPD traits. It was a very hard thing to go through. Especially because I had no idea at the time, what was causing him to act the way he did. I hate that I have to sit back and watch my brother go through it too. I apologize if I offended anyone. That was not my intention at all and yes, there needs to be a section on this board for people who are being affected by a BPD but aren't necessarily directly involved with one.

So is it your brother that is dating a pwBPD you think? How was your connection with your brother before she came along?

To answer this, yes he fell in love with and married this woman. They hardly knew each other. By the time they got married, they hadn't even been together for a year. Today, they've only been married for 8 months. It's hard to lose your brother to a stranger whom you don't even know and who tried to alienate you before they even knew you. He has told me that he's "trying to get her to see that his love for me and my mom is different than his love for her." Also that "she is threatened by the close relationship we have"... .or should I say had. My brother is a classic codependent. This is what I've learned in recent months. Him and I were always very close. When we were young, he would always let me tag along with his friends. He never treated me like the "annoying little sister". Before he met his uBPD wife we had a very close relationship. I had helped him through a very tough and traumatic breakup with his exfiance. I took countless hours away from my own family and my newborn son, to be there for him. Spent hours on the phone listening to him. My husband too. He helped him with a lot. Once he met his uBPD girlfriend, she didn't have interest in his family. I totally understood he was going to be less available but then she started coercing him to say insulting things to his family, including me. I know him. The things that were coming out of his mouth were things he'd never care about. It resulted in me losing contact with him for over 8 months. She won't allow me to be in his life but that's not what he wants at all. He is scared of her. Scared of her wrath. He is not allowed to see his family without her. He doesn't do anything he used to do. Even his hobbies and things he was once passionate about have been thrown to the wayside. I just don't know how to deal with her. I'm trying to understand but it's really hard for me. That's why I came here.

[an0ught]

Hi Youcantfoolme,

Zinzatar I'm sorry. You're right. Maybe using the term enemy wasn't a great way to describe it. I'm 100% sympathetic to everyone's unique situation here. I think I feel so strongly about this because I have been in a relationship with someone who was either BPD or had really strong BPD traits. It was a very hard thing to go through. Especially because I had no idea at the time, what was causing him to act the way he did. I hate that I have to sit back and watch my brother go through it too. I apologize if I offended anyone. That was not my intention at all and yes, there needs to be a section on this board for people who are being affected by a BPD but aren't necessarily directly involved with one.

you may find the staying board helpful because it may help you to understand. And in some sense it does help you to understand. But as you noticed you can't fully understand without wearing the same shoes. There is a risk that knowledge without ability to act breeds frustration. While the underlying mechanisms and skills dealing with BPD are the same a relationship with dysfunctional relatives requires a different stance and mix of skills. Then due to our very limited ability to affect the other side but also due to our limited ownership of consequences boundaries become much more important. The Coping and Healing from a BPD Parent, Sibling, or Inlaw board can be a good source of support in such situations.