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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: The Exchange (bait) | And "just say no" to texting?  (Read 406 times)
aztempe123

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« on: July 06, 2014, 02:30:48 AM »

Hola team,

I've been trying to "co-parent" and realize that there are two main sources of drama remaining in life.

1) The Exchange. Like clockwork. About 4 exchanges are drama free. Normal. Then on the 5th (or so), I'm baited into a conversation that is for sure going to take me down a path where I'm driven nanners. Then I do something dumb and say "look, I can't stand you and would never speak to you again if possible!" Followed by "WOW, I can't believe you would say such hurtful things in front of our son. Blah, blah, blah. Followed by a documentation email. Awesomely predictable.

Answer: I'm going to go ahead and hire a college girl to shuttle my little moose across town. I simply can't be baited into this crap anymore, and having 4 "normal" exchanges shouldn't at this point mean a permanent pattern.

2) Texts. Here is where I need help. If the kid is with me a few days I will get a "please send me a pic of my sweet pumpkin". Sounds reasonable right? But, this broad just can't help herself to use this as a way to draw me in. Hopefully with this audience I don't need to explain all the pitfalls of constantly feeling like I need to stop what I'm doing and snap a pic and send it to her. But, I am indeed wrestling with this one. On one hand, it just seems so reasonable for a mother to want a quick pic of her son. On the other hand, this is not a reasonable person and the rate at which she is trying to "document me" for whatever she can get her hands on is alarming. My gut is simply screaming that these texts could lead to serious problems down the road. And, I feel like most people would think I'm paranoid on this issue... .because, she can seem so normal. Again, it is just a "poor little helpless mama that misses her boy". (even though in 48hrs he will be back at your house! what did mamas do before smart phones!)
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enlighten me
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2014, 03:15:33 AM »

Hi Aztempe

Been through this myself.

Firstly I'd be careful with hiring a college girl. Your ex will no doubt jump to the wrong conclusion and you will be labelled as sleeping with her. She will have something to show the neighbours "look at his new girlfriend", What a sad man running around with young girls" etc etc This has the potential of causing you more drama.

Personally I kept going. Kept the conversation to a minimum. Stayed cold to her. Anything she wanted to discuss I had her email to me. Once you have worked through your anger you get to a point where they can rage at you and you can remain calm. I once had my ex and her boyfriend come to pick up the boys and both scream at me that I wasn't paying them enough money. I was gobsmacked as I was paying what she agreed on. I remained calm and told her boyfriend that I wasn't paying him anything and the money was for my children. I then said that doing this in front of the children wasn't acceptable and if he would like to discuss finances then I would be more than happy to go around the corner away from the kids and discuss it. The ex wife panicked then as she had obviously not told him I had cleared her debts and all the debt she now had was nothing to do with me.

This is an example of where you can get to. I was taken off guard but was still able to keep calm and put my children first. Once you detach from your emotions towards her you will be able to do this and walk away with your head held high. But by avoiding her you just prolong the process.

My ex wife also did the photo thing. I just said that if I remember to do it I will but we are so busy that I don't even think of taking photos.

She doesn't ask anymore.

By setting boundaries you take back control of the situation.
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lemon flower
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2014, 03:21:41 AM »

hi aztempe123

red flag alert  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) !

be careful to start sending these pics, this is her attempt for more control !

if you let her she will go further and further, I wouldn't let her do that.

just be firm and kindly ask her not to interfere with you and your kid while he's with you

(except maybe for emergency cases, allthough we all know how easy things can become an emergency for pwBPD... .)

I think it's very important to be clear about things from the beginning, a good start for you new life.

btw, I just read your introduction post, allthough being an unhappy story, I couldn't help but laughing, you write very funny  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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aztempe123

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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2014, 11:38:30 AM »

Thank you for the kind responses.

I'm actually completely over her emotionally. This woman is jut crafty. She is a "lawyer" with licenses in two states (although she quit just 2yrs into my career). When she baits me into something that upsets me, it isn't anything to do about the emotions between us. Rather, it is her setting some type of trap, watching me walk into it blindly as planned, and then getting a follow up email that says "per the decree, you... .blah, blah... .per court orders... ."

So, why do I want to be exposing myself to this? This almost always happens at the Exchange.

And, I have been obliging her sending pics here and there, or maybe sending on a delay. But, my gut tells me that this is indeed just one more form of trying to control a situation that she is removed from (like what Triss said).

I'm also totally cool with her thinking whatever about who I am dating. I don't care and I don't think anyone cares. If I did care, I don't think anyone would think of me as a sad sack. I dusted myself off like James Bond after a car accident... .I clean up nicely and kept on keeping on... .
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enlighten me
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2014, 11:54:03 AM »

Maybe when you exchange you could have a Dictaphone recording it. Or even a camera running in the car. That way you can show that what she was doing was wrong.

Even though you don't care what anyone may think you still need to be careful. Remember this is a woman who probably blew up over the slightest thing. If theres a way to avoid unnecessary drama then do it. Her thinking she's been replaced could cause her to do something to get back at you. Even more scary as she's a lawyer so could possibly say that your behaviour isn't good for the kids. It doesn't matter if its true as I found with my ex they will do it just to get at you. My ex dragged out the divorce for nearly 3 years with false claims that she dropped when they were due to go to court.

Whatever you decide upon good luck.
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aztempe123

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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2014, 11:59:39 AM »

Well, she has had babysitters shuttle him to my place in the past. She tends to hire college girls. So, my thought was this would be a great way to reduce drama.

But, it seems that having a babysitter drop him off may cause more problems?
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enlighten me
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2014, 12:12:49 PM »

Im not saying it will cause problems but I know how my ex would have reacted. Feeling threaten by a younger woman and all.

How old is your son? Is he old enough to walk to the house once you've given him a hug? I now don't go to the door with my two 11 and 12. I just give them a hug and kiss then wait in the car until theyre in safely.
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mywifecrazy
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2014, 12:35:12 PM »

In my humble opinion I would not use someone else to drop your child off to her. That could be used against you in a custody dispute I'm sure. Especially someone you hire to do it, just doesn't sound like a good idea.

You need to set boundaries with her and stick to them. If she reacts negatively... .So what!

Where do you do the exchanges at? Your place, hers? Maybe doing it on a neutral sight in public might be an idea? Or if you don't like that YOU just choose to not engage her. If she tries to engage her just ignore her and give your child a big hug and say your goodbye. My personal boundary with my uBPDxw was no exchanges at my house. Because she CHOOSES to  be shacking up with our neighbor I told her since I have to see you there I don't want to see you here! I do all the exchanges at her apartment because I don't have to see her. I watch the kids go up the stairs to the 3rd floor. Once they are in the door I'm gone. No face to face, no confrontations, No anxiety for me! Being cool (click to insert in post) Setting up this boundary has helped me tremendously in moving forward and focusing on my RECOVERY FROM HER. She didn't accept it at first and kept trying to schedule a pick up here but I politely said no I will bring them to your place. After she still didn't get it I forcefully but respectfully TOLD HER she's not coming on my property as long as she's with neighbor. She seems to be getting it.

If I was you I would only communicate through e-mail. Everything will be documented. I'm sure your X will have a child like tantrum but if you stick to it she will get the message. Mine did, it so PREDICTABLE to see how they respond to things when you are out of the FOG! I also read on here that it is WISE to limit communications to e-mail only (except emergencies) for the first two years after a separation. It helps to let things settle down and reduces the drama and confrontations. Also use BIFF (brief, informative, factual and friendly) when corresponding through e-mail. This will keep you from being engaged and possible sending something that can be used against you in e-mail. Remember you can document her but she can document you too! If there is something I need to say to her and I don't want to risk her documenting it I will pick up the phone or do it in person.

It really does SUCK!      Being tied to someone with this disorder because you have kids. I fell like I have 3 kids my 2 sons (9&14) and 1 PAIN IN THE A$$ Adult TODDLER that is my boys Mother. Being SMART and making decisions with logic and not emotions is what will get you out of the FOG and keep you there. EASIER SAID THAN DONE SOMETIME Smiling (click to insert in post)

Good Luck Brother
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The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all. (Psalm 34:18, 19)
livednlearned
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2014, 02:17:17 PM »

Anytime you feel fear, obligation, or guilt, and especially guilt, and especially obligation, and especially fear, then do the opposite thing you think you should do.

Do that for a year.

Then see if you like it. You'll probably still be the winning guy you already are, and you'll do all kinds of thoughtful awesome things, and people will still like you, and life will be full and wonderful and no one will notice anything different except you. Except that you won't second guess yourself so much anymore. It took me two years to realize that what I called selfish is what healthy people called healthy.

About the photos. Does every source of conflict have a win-win? I don't know, but that's how I tried to solve things. Like maybe create a photobucket account or something. Tell people the password. Then they (including her) can take a boo anytime they want. You can take pictures anytime you want.

About the exchange: some cities have exchange centers. I think. Like the places where supervised visitation happens. Happy places, I'm sure. Or police stations -- that's a popular exchange location among people here, so you would fit right in. If you hire a sitter, there will be conflict. There might be false allegations. There just will be. Especially if she's young and attractive.

I found that holding up a recording device did wonders to reduce conflict, but I live in one-party consent state. You could also write a short email to your ex telling her that the conflict is not good for moose and you will be handling exchanges like a champ from now on. To alleviate conflict, ask that she email anything of substance about moose, that you won't be discussing anything in person, that this is all to keep things smooth. If conflict happens, conversation is over.

You probably already know about extinction bursts. Keep a watch out for one coming if you set a boundary.



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momtara
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2014, 07:16:38 PM »

exHusbands do these things too. 

I sympathize with the photo of the little pumpkin - in a normal situation, it would make sense.  But yeah, if it baits you into a longer exchange, then blah.  Doesn't she have the right to call him if she's concerned?  Just a thought, although that can cause its own issues.
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AlonelyOne
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2014, 07:43:20 PM »

I just had one of those attempts... .

She sent several photos by email. The last one contained a pic of our youngest during a day we made time to spend "just with her"... .(we were trying to do this one on one time with each of our children regularly).  That last email had the bait and hook... .

"She was so happy that day. Guess it was the last one she'll ever get. You knew and were planning that. I guess I'm glad I didn't know."

Huh what... .?  I knew what? That she was going to divorce me? That she had been planning this - likely for a very long time?  That I didn't know... .though occasionally I had some suspicions.

But the insanity is freaky.  I've started to believe that I can almost deduce what actions she's taken or thoughts she's had by her accusations.  For example, I now believe on that day she already knew she was divorcing me. And that she knew it was likely the last time.

It's really a bizarre experience... .
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bravhart1
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2014, 05:48:28 PM »

in the beginning, before we wised up to what the pics were about, we sent her one when she asked and once we sent her one at 11:00 am from a park where we had been since nine. We are early risers and had already had an early breakfast and lunch. K was holding a ice cream cone and she drug it into court claiming we gave her ice cream for breakfast.

I vote no to pics, shes looking for how the kid is dressed, in what clothes, where you are, etc its all about control and twisting info. (and no you don't sound paranoid to me, this is very real stuff they do)
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londonD
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2014, 05:09:50 AM »

in the beginning, before we wised up to what the pics were about, we sent her one when she asked and once we sent her one at 11:00 am from a park where we had been since nine. We are early risers and had already had an early breakfast and lunch. K was holding a ice cream cone and she drug it into court claiming we gave her ice cream for breakfast.

I vote no to pics, shes looking for how the kid is dressed, in what clothes, where you are, etc its all about control and twisting info. (and no you don't sound paranoid to me, this is very real stuff they do)

I've had a bit of a result recently, my uBPDex has told me I must wait in the street outside her parents house, her father (who is a reasonable man) will bring my son out to me.

She painted me black for two weeks, when I dropped him off last Sunday she offered me dinner and I accepted. It was amicable, there is still a spark there. I didn't speak to her on Monday and Tuesday she caused an argument for NO reason and banned me from coming to the front door.

I'm starting to think that this is great! I now don't need to see her and hear about the men she's chatting to. Being painted black isn't all that bad if you learn not to rise to the abuse.

Although when her supply of attention dries up and she moves back to Leeds for med school, she will be back to being nice to suck me in and do favors for her as always.

Not anymore will I be lured in. You play Russian roulette, you pull the trigger and thank god you don't die. Do you pull the trigger again?
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mywifecrazy
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2014, 08:16:33 AM »

Although when her supply of attention dries up and she moves back to Leeds for med school, she will be back to being nice to suck me in and do favors for her as always.

Not anymore will I be lured in. You play Russian roulette, you pull the trigger and thank god you don't die. Do you pull the trigger again?

NO

and it's not cruel or insensitive to realize that she has problems (pwBPD) and it's not your lot in life to fix her... .Because you can't! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result each time.

What you can do is work on yourself to become a healthy person and set up personal boundaries for yourself so you can be the best Dad in the world for you child.

Good luck to you LondonD

Sincerely... .MWC Being cool (click to insert in post)
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The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all. (Psalm 34:18, 19)
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2014, 11:41:58 PM »

Here's what I do about pictures - it seems to work pretty well... .

Once in a while I take some pictures of the kids, because I feel like it - maybe a special event or maybe we're just somewhere and I think it would make a good picture.

If they come out pretty good, or if it's a special occasion, I might choose the best few and e-mail them to several people - to the kids themselves, and my brothers and sisters, and some aunts, and also to their mom (my ex).  Maybe just a very simple note like "At the concert last night" or "Halloween 2013".

If my ex e-mailed me, "I can't make it to the concert but could you please take some pictures and send them?", I probably wouldn't respond, but if I got some good pictures I would send them - why not?

No fear, obligation, guilt, just some pictures if I feel like taking them and think others would like them.

No texting at all - too immediate.  E-mails only.

See, I think it's not the pictures that are the problem for you, AZ.  I think it's all the baggage you're allowing to be attached to them.  That requires you to take a big step back from the relationship - more distance - no texting, no phone calls, no face-to-face discussions, just e-mail, and drop the kids off.  It's hard to achieve but when you can do that - take one big step back away from the relationship, and then another, and another, til there's very little left - then stuff like pictures won't be difficult to deal with.
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londonD
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« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2014, 05:53:50 AM »

Although when her supply of attention dries up and she moves back to Leeds for med school, she will be back to being nice to suck me in and do favors for her as always.

Not anymore will I be lured in. You play Russian roulette, you pull the trigger and thank god you don't die. Do you pull the trigger again?

NO

and it's not cruel or insensitive to realize that she has problems (pwBPD) and it's not your lot in life to fix her... .Because you can't! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result each time.

What you can do is work on yourself to become a healthy person and set up personal boundaries for yourself so you can be the best Dad in the world for you child.

Good luck to you LondonD

Sincerely... .MWC Being cool (click to insert in post)

Thanks MWC, it's tough right now as she is aggressively trying to find a replacement. She has had sex with a man after only 7 weeks.

Its hard to deal with but I know she will repeat her actions and she will have another failed relationship. She is so clingy and needy that I expect a lot of men will run.

I feel sorry for the man she traps next, she was pregnant after four months of our relationship. She always crosses boundaries. Turning up to my house, house mate let her in, she snooped through my internet history and whatever else. That was 2 months into the relationship.
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