Tools for answering questions truthfully

[Cat21]

Sometimes after a big argument (think morning after), my uBPDh will claim to not know why I am upset; AKA, acting like nothing happened and wondering why I'm not in a great mood. I know personally that until I've had time to calm down and not give in to JADEing, I have to say that I'm not ready to talk about it. In these cases, my husband always wants to know "will you just tell me why you're angry, even if we can't discuss it right now?"

I guess my question is, by giving him a general idea of why I'm upset (I know they tend to forget things or have no recollection of events), am I fueling a possible argument for later, easing his mind, etc? And is this effective or just best to not talk at all until I'm ready?

Example: I am still upset this morning by his behavior yesterday (drank too much, bad behavior), and before he left the house this morning, he said, "What's wrong? Are you angry?" I said, "I'd rather not discuss it right now. We can talk later." A few minutes later began the texts: "Can you just give me an idea as to why you're upset? Is it because I drank a lot?" etc. etc. I finally responded with " Yes. I know you want to resolve this now, but it's just not the right time. Let's talk later, OK?" He said OK.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[thicker skin]

I've been here many times. I don't know if my partner genuinely doesn't remember his cruel words, or if he doesn't want to acknowledge it. Either way, it hurts and can be very confusing.

They can switch back to normal in minutes, but the rest of us mortals find it increasingly difficult to recover after repeated episodes.

If he is open to accepting that he might 'blackout' during alcohol or anger, you may well be able to proceed forwards. Perhaps develope a key word that you can say, when you are affected by an incident but you're unable to discuss it with him. Then he can know why you're distant and that you will come back and talk when you're ready.

Mine can't remember vile verbal attacks minutes after he's delivered them. It nearly drove me crazy, taking the awful abuse, then being labelled as crazy for reacting to my own sick, delusional mind... .So be mindful, know your truth and don't be drawn in to a debate. Stick to your guns and look after you.

[Cat21]

Thanks, thicker skin. I just got off the phone with him, and at the beginning of the conversation, I thought we were making headway. He apologized, which really doesn't mean anything anymore, and said that he agrees that we have to communicate better with one another. When I told him that I wish he would be more open to taking my concerns seriously (I expressed concerns yet AGAIN about his drinking), he said that he understands my concern, but of course- he has everything under control and I just to need to trust him.

Why did I think it would turn out differently? This disorder is what it is, and I guess I'm having trouble with the whole radical acceptance part... .

[wishfulthinking]

I found I can't radically accept abuse.  Seems a majority of BPD's are abusive.  I finally hit my breaking point.  Nothing ever changes, nothing will ever change unless they see they need help.  I hope yours isn't in the abusive majority.  Good luck to you.  You deserve happiness.  We all do.

[thicker skin]

You can't really control his drinking Cat... .Only how it affects you. You might like to request that if he's going to drink, either at all, or a specific amount, that he does it away from you, if you're choosing to stay with him.

You are and would be reasonable to set a boundary around it, because it affects you and that's what you want to stop. Only he can change his habit.

It's tough and I wish you well sweetheart.

[Cat21]

You can't really control his drinking Cat... .Only how it affects you. You might like to request that if he's going to drink, either at all, or a specific amount, that he does it away from you, if you're choosing to stay with him.

You are and would be reasonable to set a boundary around it, because it affects you and that's what you want to stop. Only he can change his habit.

It's tough and I wish you well sweetheart.

Yes, you are right. Setting a boundary is definitely in order. I'll have to think about what, exactly, that entails. One of my boundaries that seems to be working is to take a time out and leave the apt. when he cusses at me and starts with the insults. Since reinforcing that boundary, I've seen some positive change in that area. As for the drinking, that's a tougher nut to crack.

[ColdEthyl]

This is true. I didn't notice my husband had a drinking problem until it was too late. Over the years, what we have done is set boundaries. He doesn't drink daily anymore, go to bars, or any of that. He does drink still, usually 3 times a week, but in moderation. He is allowed to have X amount and that's it. If he drinks too much, he gets angry/mean.

He was also violent in the past, not to the point to hitting me, but pushing, breaking my things... .he really liked to do that. I have honestly been more physical than he has been... .I would get so frustrated before I knew what was going on with him... .I really thought I was going nuts.

The thing is... .he needs to be in a place where he can admit he has some issues before you can move forward.

You can't really control his drinking Cat... .Only how it affects you. You might like to request that if he's going to drink, either at all, or a specific amount, that he does it away from you, if you're choosing to stay with him.

You are and would be reasonable to set a boundary around it, because it affects you and that's what you want to stop. Only he can change his habit.

It's tough and I wish you well sweetheart.

[Cat21]

This is true. I didn't notice my husband had a drinking problem until it was too late. Over the years, what we have done is set boundaries. He doesn't drink daily anymore, go to bars, or any of that. He does drink still, usually 3 times a week, but in moderation. He is allowed to have X amount and that's it. If he drinks too much, he gets angry/mean.

Do you mind if I ask about your boundaries, ColdEthyl? And was the cutting back/moderation his decision, or did your boundaries influence that?

[Panda39]

There might be 2 different topics here (that are connected)... Alcoholism & BPD. Both can impair how someone remembers things. 

It seems to me that BPDs often forget things they've done and said when dysregulated  (and sometimes they just might not want to face up to remembering something). 

I was married to an alcoholic that always accused me of lying because he was drunk so often that he couldn't remember many things I told him.  So since he couldn't remember, I must be lying.

So with alcohol and BPD you might be experiencing a memory double whammy

[earthgirl]

Cat21,

Reading your OP gave me chills... .I think we might be married to the same man.  

When my husband does this, I think he knows exactly why I am upset.  I think it's his way of looking for an opening.  He wants to get back into it again -- even though I am like you, and I need some time to process it before I am ready to talk about it.  

I'm not really sure why he can't just say, "You're still upset about last night, aren't you?"  But he NEVER does this... .he always acts like it's this big mystery as to why I am withdrawn.  Can't quite figure that out, it's strange. The only thing I can come up with is this: by acting confused, he's trying to send a subtle message along the lines of, "Surely you are not still upset about that little thirty-minute yell-fest last night... .that wasn't enough to, y'know, actually cause anyone to be upset... ."

[earthgirl]

Also, giving him a summary doesn't seem to work, even when I couple it with, "I need a little time before I'm ready to discuss this."  He gets his foot in the door with the summary and he's off and running... .or, he will obsessively check back with me until I end up talking about it before I am ready just to get it dealt with and done.

[ColdEthyl]

It's been a combination of both. He really had been trying to do better, so he has regulated himself, but not without me making clear what my personal boundaries were going to be. I'm not saying there hasn't been times he's slipped up, or me for that matter, but we got this way under control more than it was in the past.

This is true. I didn't notice my husband had a drinking problem until it was too late. Over the years, what we have done is set boundaries. He doesn't drink daily anymore, go to bars, or any of that. He does drink still, usually 3 times a week, but in moderation. He is allowed to have X amount and that's it. If he drinks too much, he gets angry/mean.

Do you mind if I ask about your boundaries, ColdEthyl? And was the cutting back/moderation his decision, or did your boundaries influence that?

[maxsterling]

Interesting thoughts, earthgirl.  This is an interesting topic.  I get dumbfounded by the same thing.  She can be especially cruel to me, yelling, insulting, and my reaction is to get away or withdraw.  I've told her repeatedly that I don't like cursing and am sensitive to loud noises.  And when she is not dysregulated, she will acknowledge that her behavior is mean or hurtful. 

Yet shortly after some incident where she was hurtful, I will naturally withdraw, and she will ask me if I am "mad at her."  The truth is, I'm not really mad, just frustrated, confused and hurt that someone who claims to love me so much will be so hurtful, even when she seems to know she is hurtful.  So why does she need to ask if I am mad when it's pretty universally accepted that her behavior was hurtful? The only things I can think of:

1) She's trying to bait me somehow into admitting I am mad at her.

2) She really doesn't understand interaction among people, and has confusion over right from wrong.

3) Her emotions have caused some kind of short term memory failure.

The more I get to know her, I really think this relates to a lack of identity within her.  She may judge right from wrong based upon other's reactions.  That would fit with other statements she makes, and her constant questions about what she should do in certain situations.  So when she blows up, and I don't respond by blowing up back at her, I think it really confuses her, because my reaction does not agree with the way she thinks the world should work.  She's even asked me to yell at her sometimes (!)  And then her head starts running, and she assumes I am mad at her because that's the way most people have treated her, but I don't act mad, and she assumes I am holding it in, and then she get mad at me for "lying" to her. 

My guess is that could be what is going on here - he has little foundation for "right vs wrong", and without any input from you, he simply doesn't know.  Yet, the issue with telling him bluntly is invalidation because it is very difficult to explain that his behavior is hurtful without it sounding like you are blaming him for your emotions.  I'm sure you know what bad things happen if you even imply to a pwBPD that they are responsible for your emotions... .

[waverider]

Boundaries do have to be something that is enacted in the moment and not served up cold the next day. Anything that is enacted the next day is seen as vengeful  and holding a grudge.

[an0ught]

Sounds to me like a balancing act of

- not doing JaDE

- SET

Our loved ones have this wonderful, in same way enviable ability to bounce back quicker sometimes. Does not mean they always bounce back quicker as they may get stuck much, much longer. In short their recovery from a fight is unpredictable. Of course they don't intuitively understand a "normal" emotional ramp down and re-balancing. They are different and sometimes we can choose to remind them using SET

S: Let me explain

E: you are doing well this morning, good for you and you are irritated by me being still upset

T: People are different. For me it takes more time to re balance than it takes for you. Can't change that, will take a while for me to cheer up. Best may be not to focus too much on it.

This won't fix things in the short term but learning that people are different and how to deal with it is very important in the relationship for both sides.

[waverider]

Sounds to me like a balancing act of

- not doing JaDE

- SET

Our loved ones have this wonderful, in same way enviable ability to bounce back quicker sometimes. Does not mean they always bounce back quicker as they may get stuck much, much longer. In short their recovery from a fight is unpredictable. Of course they don't intuitively understand a "normal" emotional ramp down and re-balancing. They are different and sometimes we can choose to remind them using SET

S: Let me explain

E: you are doing well this morning, good for you and you are irritated by me being still upset

T: People are different. For me it takes more time to re balance than it takes for you. Can't change that, will take a while for me to cheer up. Best may be not to focus too much on it.

This won't fix things in the short term but learning that people are different and how to deal with it is very important in the relationship for both sides.

Good point, I have found myself doing exactly that. In fact did it today. If nothing else it actually helps you refocus self acceptance & self asertion