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Author Topic: Major dysregulation (mostly mine) after a long time of loving calmness  (Read 416 times)
Triptoes
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« on: July 14, 2014, 07:03:54 AM »

I posted here actively a while ago, but stopped when I went to therapy to deal with my own issues and noticed implementing those things in my daily life and just being the person I wanted to be helped me more than reading this board. I still think this place helped me a lot, I just am not sure BPD is a label I want to attach to my spouse and I thought reading here was making me more judgemental. He has those tendencies but I don't think he has the disorder, he has just inherited them from his parents.

Anyway, now something very puzzling and moving has happened. We got along great for a long time, the longest time in our relationship. We were doing so well. I have only a short moment ago thought that I was the happiest I've ever been with him. I was proud of us both

Then this happened. After a tiring time with work we headed off to a vacation, where my spouse was becoming more and more stressed out and began to see many of my small actions as spite against him. He was stressed out from the aftermath of his work stress and I was getting stressed out the much needed vacation seemed to have to become either a three-week battle or a vacation only for him, with me just taking care of his needs to a large extent. I must add, at home that would've been ok with me for a short time, relationships are give and take after all, but I needed the break as well so I rebelled against the idea (conciously and unconciously). Still, this situation was still repairable.

After we got home, the worst happened. We attended a friends wedding, where after having an amazing time for a day, two things happened. I broke a promise I had made to my spouse only a short while before. It was stupid and I genuinly regretted doing it, I cannot justify it in any way. I could've not told him and he would've never known, but I chose to be honest. He appreciated that but was still obviously upset. Then the next morning we got into a fight about me not listening to his feelings (which is his major problem in this relationship in general, in many ways warranted — and in other ways exaggerated, because he doesn't only want me to listen but also often to read his mind and gets upset if I don't say the right thing right away). So we fought.

But this time, we fought like mad. Especially me. Somehow I truly snapped like I never have before. I had learned to keep myself in check and be calm in our conflict situations but it all went out the window. I couldn't stand talking to him, I couldn't stand the unfair blaming and the breaches of my limits. I let him ban me from taking a pause in the discussion, I was starving — and I felt crazy. I became so upset.

I guess what I proved there to myself is that somehow it is me who is holding this relationship together in conflict. Because there is no way for him to calm us both down if we're that upset. So when I didn't do it, it was a disaster.

Now it is the next day and I don't even know what to think. He feels betrayed and unhappy, I can see that he genuinly thinks we should end the relationship. That makes me sad but at the same time I understand. I haven't behaved like a good spose to him in the past month. I also understand I am still in some way expecting him to be someone he is not. I am also starting to understand that maybe I don't have the strength for this relationship, I want to do the work and live out my values every single day. But maybe he triggers something so strong inside me that I won't succeed in that with him. Maybe I don't dare to let my guard down enough with him to be as vulnerable as a great relationship requires, because of the ways he has hurt me in the past. That makes me feel weak and a failure. But maybe it is the truth.

I don't know what now. I know what I can do to move on: keep on working on myself, living out my values, keeping my own emotions in check. But I don't know what I am willing to do in order for this marriage to keep going. Thing is, he thinks he is the more hurt one, and is only focused on how I should change. And I agree with him on all the points! However, I don't know I want a relationship where my crimes against his emotions and needs are always going to be worse than his against mine. He truly thinks this whole mess started with me and that the solution is also for me to get better. He admits responsibility for being a part of making things worse during us fighting. But the finger is pointed at me. I guess just in all honesty I don't know can I take that. I am already pointing the finger at myself, I have honestly expressed to him what I think I did wrong — and I honestly think so.

His way of beating me up when I'm already down just makes me think so much less of this relationship I don't know how to go on. I mentioned he refuses the idea of therapy together or separate only for himself, he has tried both, but doesn't have enough trust for the sport (with his personal therapy I can see why, that was a disaster and not because of him, the couples therapy however was successful and he told me so too afterwards).

Have you broken the trust of your BPD spouse? Have you recovered — without losing your dignity in the process? Have you had a major dysfunctional moment after doing well for a long time?

Anything, shoot.
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Allmessedup
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 10:42:43 PM »

Hi trip toes!   

Hugs to you!  It's so hard when your already feeling down on yourself to have your partner contribute to that.

Now my gf and I are not married, however we have been together for just over 4 years now... .

And unfortunately I broke her trust myself rather recently.

I dysregulated in a huge way.

But we don't live in a bubble of course and it's very hard to take the blame for messing up this time when your partner has done so many things in the past.

However, I looked at it this way... .

I messed up. I broke her trust.  Those are facts

I am the only one responsible for my actions and my choices.  They were not her choice,

I had to look at the incident individually,  it was not fair for me to bring up things she did or said to assuage my own guilt,

And I needed to change some things about me.  Because I don't want to hurt her like that again.

And I needed to rebuild that trust because a relationship with her is important to me.

What she does is under only her control.  I can choose to forgive her or not... .that's my choice,

But my reactions in the incident were not who I want to be.  They don't uphold my values.  My deciding to change me had to do with that.

So I keep my dignity intact in that regard.

For me my gf is not one to beat me up continually over something I did... she knows full well I do a great job of that all on my own.  But she was hurt and I have to take accountability for that. And since I broke her trust I must work to rebuild that as well.

So I suppose what I am saying is that my response to her dysregulation is my own choice.  I feel that I can't use that as a "get out of jail free" card when I mess up.  I have to hold myself accountable as that is what fits my values.    She may not do the same when she dysregulates which is her choice but I choose if that is enough for me,

I don't know if that makes any sense but there you have it:)

Amu
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waverider
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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 11:59:44 PM »

First of all everyone messes up from time to time. That is normal so don't keep beating yourself up or feel 100% wrong.

If he expects you do 100% right 100% of the time that is disordered thinking. If he then cant accept that and yet you agree that attitude is fair enough, that is dysfunctional thinking.

Life is not about holding your emotions in check, it is about being able to channel them in less destructive ways MOST of the time. Not all the time.

You say you haven't behaved like a good spouse, has he? You are blaming yourself too much.

BPD or not, most of the traits are over the top human traits. Using BPD coping skills will help you with RS's regardless of whether a person qualifies for the diagnosis or not. Some of those coping skills will help you get through this moment.

Catastrophes are run of the mill of living in a disordered relationship.

It is not important whether he takes any blame, it is important though you dont fall into the trap of feeling like a failure by blaming yourself.

Believe it or not now that I know better how not to "lose it", I am less afraid of doing so, and I do occasionally, because I can quickly recover/repair the situation. It is normal for folks to loose it from time to time, so it is not necessarily a bad sign.
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ziniztar
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 03:32:10 AM »

I guess what I proved there to myself is that somehow it is me who is holding this relationship together in conflict. Because there is no way for him to calm us both down if we're that upset. So when I didn't do it, it was a disaster.

Same thing happened to me last week. We've been fine for a long time (few months in a row). Yet after a few weeks of poking, I lost it when he got mad at me for not wanting sex. I was very tired and didn't feel close to him. Which makes sense: when he's searching for fights, he's pushing me away, and sex becomes less intimate. He doesn't look at me, becomes more aggresive (in a good way, but still)... well... you get the drill.

So when he got mad, I snapped. Not everything is about him. I ranted for almost 2 hours. He tried to calm me and summoned me to go to sleep but I wouldn't. I even told him "I'm so mad right now I could keep you awake on purpose, all night! How do you expect me to go to sleep when you pick a fight right before?" I made matters a lot worse then, but I just couldn't keep it in.

The next day he was still mad but was able to talk through it calmly, and so was I. We are coming to grips with the fact that we heavily argue sometimes. And that it's not the end of the world.

Still, it didn't feel good. I told him later that week that we're both emotional people yet that I'm a little bit more able of turning things around when we start fighting. And that I'm ok in doing so but that he can't expect me to always be that person, especially not when I have enough other stuff (work, monthly hormones, friends rejecting me) going on at the same time. He will never be the one saying 'darling I'm sorry, let's talk about this in the morning' in the heat of the moment. And I can't always be.
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enlighten me
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 03:50:35 AM »

Hi Triptoes

First thing I noticed is how the holiday became about him.

I realise from both my uBPD exs that holidays are very stressful for them. They are out of their comfort zone and thrust into an environment that they cant control. This means they are more likely to slip up in front of us. I once spent a fortnight holiday with my ex wife bed bound as she was too ill to do anything. I now see this as her not coping rather than being ill. I seem to have spent all my holidays with my exs running around after them and actually looked forward to going back to work for a rest.

Yes breaking promises is huge. It doesn't have to be a big promise. Just by saying you will post a letter but forgetting to do it is enough to set them off. Trust is the underlying problem with BPD. This is why abandonment is such an issue as they are trusting you not to leave them. Whatever it is that has happened in their past to trigger BPD you can guarantee it has something to do with a loss of trust. I notice with my exs that they don't trust authority figures like the police or teachers.

Finally the fact that you snapped and argued back is not to be unexpected. There is only a certain amount that anyone can take before they have to have a release. Im sure if Ghandi was in a BPD relationship that even he would have lost it at some point.
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ziniztar
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 04:18:11 AM »

Im sure if Ghandi was in a BPD relationship that even he would have lost it at some point.

Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Triptoes
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2014, 10:32:40 AM »

Thank you for the replies! Although I am sorry some of you are going through the same thing, it is very encouraging to hear I am not the only one who has gone berserk on their spouses sometime, eventhough we all know better and are trying to use the communication and validation tools to keep things calm. Thank you for that support, it means a lot. 

Excerpt
So I suppose what I am saying is that my response to her dysregulation is my own choice.  I feel that I can't use that as a "get out of jail free" card when I mess up.  I have to hold myself accountable as that is what fits my values. She may not do the same when she dysregulates which is her choice but I choose if that is enough for me

Makes perfect sense to me, Amu!

And you are correct, I try to think like this too. My actions are my choices. Damn it is just very hard for me still sometimes, in the face of my partner so often telling me his actions are consequences of my actions.

I do have issues putting myself in a victim position where I end up thinking things happen to me rather than I am making things happen. I was doing much better on that front, but lately I have lost touch with a lot of that power for one reason or another. Time to get it back!

Excerpt
You say you haven't behaved like a good spouse, has he? You are blaming yourself too much.

BPD or not, most of the traits are over the top human traits. Using BPD coping skills will help you with RS's regardless of whether a person qualifies for the diagnosis or not. Some of those coping skills will help you get through this moment.

--

It is not important whether he takes any blame, it is important though you dont fall into the trap of feeling like a failure by blaming yourself.

Believe it or not now that I know better how not to "lose it", I am less afraid of doing so, and I do occasionally, because I can quickly recover/repair the situation. It is normal for folks to loose it from time to time, so it is not necessarily a bad sign.

waverider, It is true I don't think he has behaved like a good spouse. However, in some ways that I have behaved unacceptably (even by my own standards), he always excels. And I guess he is very good at addressing that point. But it is true there are ways in which I do much better than him, and haven't thus been any kind of complete failure. That is absolutely true. I have tried my best and for me — I am enough. I still want to grow and learn. But as I am, I am already worthy of love, respect and appreciation.

I somehow recognize what you say about "losing it", I could've written the same thing a few months ago. Somehow this time was different, I really was out of control, and I disliked the feeling myself. I didn't at all like the way I acted in that situation and don't ever want to repeat it. Probably a part of having tough time with it afterwards was that I genuinly did judge my own behavior, it wasn't just warranted upsetness, part of it was genuinly out of line.

Excerpt
Still, it didn't feel good. I told him later that week that we're both emotional people yet that I'm a little bit more able of turning things around when we start fighting. And that I'm ok in doing so but that he can't expect me to always be that person, especially not when I have enough other stuff (work, monthly hormones, friends rejecting me) going on at the same time. He will never be the one saying 'darling I'm sorry, let's talk about this in the morning' in the heat of the moment. And I can't always be.

I feel you, zinistar. And I think it is great you are your spouse are coming to an understanding about it being okay for you to sometimes argue very heavily — that you will know how to recover from it also. Me and my spouse are also both very temperamental and have a hard time not taking stress out on each other sometimes. I also recognize the idea that your spouse will never be the one to defuse a very heated situation with loving kindness or laughter. Mine neither. Most of the time he doesn't even accept it if I try to do so, his anger is most often full of cold logic where something has gone wrong and needs to be discussed and addressed before we can go on. In the beginning I had a hard time accepting that but nowadays I do, so long as we manage to at some point get around to talking about the issue calmly and taking both sides into consideration.

Excerpt
I realise from both my uBPD exs that holidays are very stressful for them. They are out of their comfort zone and thrust into an environment that they cant control. This means they are more likely to slip up in front of us. I once spent a fortnight holiday with my ex wife bed bound as she was too ill to do anything. I now see this as her not coping rather than being ill. I seem to have spent all my holidays with my exs running around after them and actually looked forward to going back to work for a rest.

Yes breaking promises is huge. It doesn't have to be a big promise. Just by saying you will post a letter but forgetting to do it is enough to set them off. Trust is the underlying problem with BPD. This is why abandonment is such an issue as they are trusting you not to leave them. Whatever it is that has happened in their past to trigger BPD you can guarantee it has something to do with a loss of trust. I notice with my exs that they don't trust authority figures like the police or teachers.

Finally the fact that you snapped and argued back is not to be unexpected. There is only a certain amount that anyone can take before they have to have a release. Im sure if Ghandi was in a BPD relationship that even he would have lost it at some point.

enlighten me, thank you for your post, there was so much there that I can really vouch for!

My spouse loves travelling and is always looking forward to it, but it is true often it is stressful for him. I think for him it is also an issue of extremely high expectations. He works a lot, too much even in his own opinion, and thus loads a whole lot of expectation about being able to rest and recover during the limited vacation time. However, if he works until the last minute (almost literally sometimes) before our trip, he will be still so full of stress that it makes things difficult. Also this hadn't happened for a year and we had had a long very relaxed trip in January, so I suppose I wasn't expecting it to be so stressful this time around. I got disappointed about that in return and so it was harder than usual to help him.

And trust, ahh, yes. The promise I broke was even one that really triggers his insecurity. I cannot even explain myself it truly was stupid and I should've known better. My partner has told me a lot about why he has trouble trusting me with certain things, I know many feelings of insecurity for him stem from his relationship to his father and his first romantic relationships when he was young. I realize he has a lot of baggage and I can truly see why he has such trouble trusting me — he understands why too — but it only makes it a tiny bit easier to bare.

And thank you for your last words! The image of Ghandi yelling at his BPD partner will make me smile for a week!  Smiling (click to insert in post)


So far we have managed to talk about things a tiny bit more calmly. I have spent time both validating my own feelings and worthiness as well as thinking about how I would've rather acted, what kind of responses would've been more in line with the person I want to be. I have both grieved for the possible loss of our relationship as felt a preliminary relief in case that would happen. But I am not giving up yet. I can see my husband is not giving up yet, and I appreciate that. He is actually trying so I also want to try. Let's see what comes.
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2014, 10:35:38 AM »

I wonder if you are putting too much blame on yourself.  Normal people make mistakes.
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Triptoes
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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 12:06:57 PM »

I don't think the blame is all on me at all. I just am not here to rehash what I think my husband did wrong, but to figure out how I can do better. And I also think it is normal to make mistakes. I guess I blame myself a lot this time because I clearly remember even during this episode thinking: "If only I do XXX, the outcome will be better." But I didn't. I knowingly chose to do the wrong thing, more than once.

I have forgiven myself for that. It was still only human. I think I am awesome despite of that and my husband is not able to convince me otherwise.

But I do not want to be in that situation again and choose against what I believe in. It felt terrible even while I was doing it. I want to become stronger at taking that right choice for me.
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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 04:38:40 PM »

But I do not want to be in that situation again and choose against what I believe in. It felt terrible even while I was doing it. I want to become stronger at taking that right choice for me.

Discussing your concerns, and awareness, here will help you on the way to achieve this.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still growth

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2014, 06:54:04 PM »

But I do not want to be in that situation again and choose against what I believe in. It felt terrible even while I was doing it. I want to become stronger at taking that right choice for me.

Discussing your concerns, and awareness, here will help you on the way to achieve this.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still growth

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Good stuff Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Just the other day I could feel my sarcastic side coming out-- oh the things that sometimes come to the tip of my tongue , but chose to keep it to myself .  Even though it would've been said in good humor, no malicious intent, I was aware of how it could be perceived and didn't feel like explaining myself, if it got that far.  Who knows, it might've been perceived in the spirit it was intended = hilarious Smiling (click to insert in post)  Some things are just better left unsaid, especially once the thoughts against it kick in.  Doesn't mean I won't slip up from time to time.  It's okay.  Not the end of the world.
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Triptoes
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2014, 05:39:11 PM »

Excerpt
Two steps forward, one step back.

That is definitely true. And something I have to actively remind myself of (and my partner at times as well). Progress is success in itself, even I or we are not all the way there yet (or ever).

And 123Pheobe;
Excerpt
Some things are just better left unsaid, especially once the thoughts against it kick in.

This is actually where a lot of struggle in our relationship comes from. I do not think before I speak. When my partner is dysregulating heavily or when I am conciously really trying, I do. But when I relax with him — which in the end is the goal so it's not otherwise a bad thing — I tend to throw caution to the wind and say whatever rolls off my tongue. Man does that get me in trouble sometimes.  Smiling (click to insert in post) I'm only hoping that non-defensive responses to accusations and expressing my own feelings more calmly will in time become more automated habits. Well, practice makes better!

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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 08:17:17 PM »

The ideal place to get to is when dyseregulation itself does not have a triggering effect on you. A  state where it does not cause you stress/ruin you day/cause a reaction in you. A state where you have accepted it just is, and there is little more you can do to prevent it.

Feeding dysregulation is one of the biggest mistakes we make. Misguided attempts to calm a situation often unwittingly inflame it.
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ziniztar
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 03:19:30 AM »

The ideal place to get to is when dyseregulation itself does not have a triggering effect on you. A  state where it does not cause you stress/ruin you day/cause a reaction in you. A state where you have accepted it just is, and there is little more you can do to prevent it.

That sounds like heaven 
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2014, 04:35:22 AM »

The ideal place to get to is when dyseregulation itself does not have a triggering effect on you. A  state where it does not cause you stress/ruin you day/cause a reaction in you. A state where you have accepted it just is, and there is little more you can do to prevent it.

That sounds like heaven 

Had a good example of this today when she started to dysregulate in the Drs waiting room. I left her to it, and went and did some shopping. Picked her up after. She apparently carried on like the sky was falling in, and was expecting a blow up with me when I got back.

I was unaffected, said I wasn't angry (and wasn't), she sulked a little on the way home. Got home and I carried on as normal and she went to bed as she couldn't find anyone to fight with or defend herself against. So I'm now sat here eating my dinner and typing this.

My day? I had a good day, no stress and life is fine.

Importantly I did not make her day worse either. It was going to be a bad day, for who knows what reason. It just was, thats the way it is.
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