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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: can we be "friends" in order to co-parent?  (Read 579 times)
Saskatchewan

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« on: July 15, 2014, 03:48:43 PM »

Hi everyone ,

Does anyone out there have a good non-sexual relationship with ex BPD's ? We have 2yr old son and I have really good access to him so far. I get him most every weekend and sometimes mid-week sleepovers as well.

In the beginning I wasn't really sure I wanted to be with this woman and it took a lot of convincing. We were new neighbours and our kids played together. I wasn't sure I was even that attracted to her at first but she poured it on pretty thick  and at the end I felt like we were in love. We all know how they hook us and I definitely swallowed the bait.

Now that she has told me we will never be together again romantically and that she is "so far gone from that place" I feel a small amount of pain /loss but I'm actually ok with it and realize that I didn't really want the relationship to begin with.

My concern is our relationship moving forward as co-parent s. I do care and I wonder how much respectful interactions we can have? Can we be. friends
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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 04:45:00 PM »

Hi Saskatchewan,

I have children with my uBPDexw, so I still need to be in contact with her.  We've known each other for a long time, so in some ways we are "old friends" but in other ways I know more than anybody else what a monster she is under her mask.

I really don't know if you can be "friends" with her.  I am "friendly" with mine, but I am constantly having to watch how close I allow her or how much I let my guard down, because I know that when I do I'm asking for her to throw a bomb through the window.  That's just how she is.
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refusetosuccumb
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2014, 09:30:25 AM »

I'm 11.5 weeks out.  I have custody of the kids and my ex has liberal visitation, at my discretion. 

I'm friendly with him, but don't think I can ever be real friends with him.  I find if I'm cold and distant, he dysregulates.  If I'm too friendly, he gets his hopes up.  I'm still learning the fine line between being friendly and him thinking I'm leading him on.

I've stopped communication beyond child related topics. 

So no, I can't ever be real friends with my ex but I don't "poke the bear" so to speak.

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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 09:32:15 AM »

Excerpt
So no, I can't ever be real friends with my ex but I don't "poke the bear" so to speak.

Haha.  Well put!  I don't "poke the bear" either!
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Saskatchewan

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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 10:42:21 AM »

I think "friendly" is the more appropriate term to use. I suppose my feelings for her could be playing a part in the whole " friends vs. friendly" debate going on in my mind . She's a very intelligent person and I valued her opinions on the world. I guess Im hoping to have some of those sit down for a coffee and talk it out times.

Those times are probably not available to me anymore although some days I feel like they certainly are.

You're right about the "fine line between". I've been on that tight rope for the better part of two years with many more ahead of us
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enlighten me
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2014, 10:55:49 AM »

Im civil with my uBPDexw for the sake of our sons. Im friendly towards her but will never be friends because friends don't do to people what she did. She doesn't have a true concept of friendship.

I met with my uBPDexgf today and she kept on going on about us having to strip everything back so we can become friends for the sake of our son. I sat there and listened to this drivel knowing that she doesn't know what I have found out about her.

They want us to be friends but they aren't capable of friendship. Neither have any real friends. I mean lifelong friends. Friendship is just another form of relationship and we all know how good they are at those.
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Fanie
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2014, 10:57:56 AM »

I would recommend the book by Phil McGraw - Family First

Excellent contents regarding co-patenting after the split

Its all about the children
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MommaBear
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2014, 11:18:18 AM »

In my experience,  very clear, very narrow boundaries have to be set and guarded at all costs. Even a simple conversation with him will wind up with him trying to intimidate or bully me. It's horrible.

I try to use whatever tools I can to limit the time I spend talking to him. I have an appointment, I set the alarm on my cell phone (make it seem as if I'm getting an important call), I have something on the stove, a conference call at work, I'm in a meeting ... .ANYTHING!

So basically I lie my pants off. It sounds horrible, but I simply can't communicate with him beyond the simplest, most basic things without him trying to get his hooks back in, or grind me under his heel.

Set your boundaries and guard them with everything you have. That's about all the advice I can offer. I'm still trying to navigate these choppy waters myself.

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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2014, 11:23:03 AM »

Excerpt
They want us to be friends but they aren't capable of friendship. Neither have any real friends. I mean lifelong friends. Friendship is just another form of relationship and we all know how good they are at those.

I agree with enlighten me.  My ex doesn't really have friends.  Sounds harsh to say, but it's true.  She has no long-term, close, functional relationships with anybody.  She just has her "supply" for getting attention and being #1.  Those people are like a revolving door, with some coming back in and then being cycled back out.  They aren't really capable of true friendship.

I have a few very close friends, and we inter-depend on and support each other.  We don't use each other as a stepping stone or ego-boost.  They are my brothers.  I'll never have that with my ex, as supportive as she may try to sound toward me at times.

I keep it "friendly" but also emotionally distant.  I keep it light, while maintaining guard.  I keep interactions brief but about the kids and never angry or spiteful.  I let things go when she's being her.  I focus on the kids, and if I have the kids extra time (if she is away on a job), I allow her to take them for a day or two on my time.  And toward the children, I am supportive of their relationship with their mother, but I also listen when they complain about how she is.  I validate their feelings without tearing her down.  I always say, "I know.  I love her, too.  But that's how she is, so it's not just you.  I'm sorry you are dealing with that."  Things like that.

Keeping things peaceful and supporting their relationship with their mother "pokes the bear" the least.  She cannot hide how she really is.  The kids see it on their own.  I never want it to be that I somehow interfered with their relationship.  And I know that she has probably done things to sabotage or manipulate them in their relationship with me, but I cannot do anything about that.  The bottom line is that if my ex feels less of a competition with me, she feels less reason to target me (though she will sometimes just for sport or to check my emotional "pulse" toward her) or my relationship with the kids.  

But no, we are not 'friends' in the true sense of the word.  We do not "hang out."  We will not go on family campouts together, like my ex once suggested.  We will not have family BBQ's or holidays together.  I need to have a new life, and emotional detachment is the only way.  Otherwise, she'll keep trying to get me to react to her.  Some people fear that the issue is always recycling.  That is a big issue, for sure (though not for me anymore).  But that isn't really just it.  The big issue is that they act in ways to insert themselves back into your head and pull on your emotions, even if just to cause you grief and drama and headaches.  They want to know they can still tug on our strings whenever they decide.

And that can't happen.  Of course she will be able to provoke emotion -I can't stop that.  But I can keep myself detached so that I don't feel the need to run after her, in my mind, even if just to wish I could clobber her!  They want us to run after them like that.  Whether its recycling, wondering what the Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)#$ they are thinking with their behavior, being thrown off by some random off-putting comment, or hating them.  I am better for my kids, for myself, and for any future relationship with a woman I may have if I keep that out.  No woman I date will tolerate me being emotionally attached to that.  Any woman worth her salt will sniff it out and run.
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Saskatchewan

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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2014, 11:25:34 AM »

You make a good point -"enlighten me "

A lot of those sit down conversations were filled with her bashing her "friends" for not providing something or not meeting some need she had.

Wow , thanks for helping me to reflect on that.

"Friendly" seems like the right road to take.  "Friends" seems to be a loaded gun.

Thanks for your input !
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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2014, 11:31:23 AM »

My ex did/does the same thing.  I had her over for Easter, since our breakup since the final recycle was so recent.  She came over and the *entire* time she sat there during dinner and talked about how stupid her friends are... .even with our children right there.  While I was cooking, she would tell me how they are basically drunken "whores."  I'm thinking, "And do they know you feel this way about them?  And if this is true, why are you hanging out with them?"

It's because they don't really have friends.  They have people they use.  Maybe they are people who will "understand" their twisted tale, believe their lies and distortions, and tell them that they are a good person.  And maybe they are just people who they can compare themselves to so that they don't feel like such losers, themselves.  Maybe they are both.  But make no mistake... .they don't really know how to have friends.  If she considers you a "friend" it is because you provide something to her... .and not in a good way.
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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2014, 11:34:39 AM »

MommaBear wrote:

Excerpt
I try to use whatever tools I can to limit the time I spend talking to him. I have an appointment, I set the alarm on my cell phone (make it seem as if I'm getting an important call), I have something on the stove, a conference call at work, I'm in a meeting ... .ANYTHING!

Yes, me too.  Otherwise, I will get stuck in the abyss of her ranting about the latest drama and the latest stupid thing someone (a friend, her sister, whoever) did... .for like an hour.  Or hours if I let her keep going.  I'm grateful it is not targeted toward me, but who knows... .she probably rants about me to others.  The point is... .she'll keep me there and tell me EVERYTHING, as if she has nobody else to really tell.  And maybe she doesn't.  Maybe that is her way of missing me.  It's endearing, in a way, but I sadly have to say goodbye to that.
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enlighten me
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 11:36:32 AM »

Saskatchewan your welcome and OOE a very good post.

I particularly like the last paragraph as yes recycling is a worry but that only happens when the BPD runs out of options or has unfinished business with you. The constant inserting themselves into your life is more of a worry. Unfortunately I have children with both my BPD exs (Not unfortunate that I have children as I love them but unfortunate that their mums are BPD). This means that they have an excuse to insert themselves as they see fit.

I have the right balance with the ex wife but my exgf is going to be a lot harder work. She had a go today about not spending enough time with our son yet I have to dance to her tune as to when I can see him. She also says that I put my other children ahead of him yet the only days available for me to see him according to her are days I have to do a 6 hour round trip to get my other sons. She knows what she's doing and whether its to punish me or have a feeling of control over me I don't know. All I know is that one day she will meet someone else and the merry little dance she leads will calm down to a more manageable pace.
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Saskatchewan

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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2014, 11:38:45 AM »

Thank you OutOfEgypt

I'm so fortunate to have found this community. It's the whole ":)o not lean on your own understanding" quote that had me searching for a  better way through this. What a wonderful place!
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momtara
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2014, 02:23:28 PM »

"I find if I'm cold and distant, he dysregulates.  If I'm too friendly, he gets his hopes up."

Yes, yes, yes.  I feel so responsible for his behavior that I don't know what to do.  The being friends thing is difficult.  Hard to keep boundaries.
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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2014, 02:34:41 PM »

Saskatchewan,

Proverbs 3 is one of my favorites.  Glad you are here.  We need each other.  God creates communities for this very reason, especially communities of common suffering.

momtara,

I know... .we do feel responsible.  But we aren't.  Part of healing and detaching (as you know) means we no longer take responsibility for their actions.  We stop "walking on eggshells" and take our lives back.  I believe when we have to deal with them, we commit to a certain way of doing things -don't "provoke" them unnecessarily, but also stop walking on eggshells with them.  In other words, we start living by what WE think and WE feel, by what is objectively right and true, and not by them and their tantrums and blaming and attention-seeking behavior.  I generally keep out of my ex's life.  I am friendly with her, but I keep out, and I don't allow her into mine.  If she corners me and tries to talk my ear off about her latest drama, I kinda glaze over, nod my head, and think of a reason why I need to go.  I am empathetic, "I'm sorry you're going through that" and I keep things general, "I hate it when that happens," but that's it.  If she's going to flip out because I'm not her play-thing anymore, then too bad.  Taking my life back is more important than worrying about her reactions.  It has to be, or else we are still their slaves.  She can think whatever she wants -I look "unhappy" or "robotic, like always!" or whatever... .  I don't care.  I just try to keep it as dummed down and non-responsive as possible.  If she makes a dig, I generally blow it off or say, "Sometimes, yeah... ."  Anything I can do to keep the interactions short and emotionally detached.  Even an argument or a justification of ourselves in the face of their accusations is emotional engagement.  I avoid that at all costs.
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Nope
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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2014, 05:36:21 PM »

The other important thing to remember as your life and co-parenting life move forward is that eventually you will likely meet someone new. It doesn't matter how she feels about you, this will be very triggering for her. There is almost no way to move on with your life without the BPD other parent losing it and potentially using access to the child to retaliate. That is a bridge you can wait to cross until you get to it. But just remember that while you are being friends or friendly you'd do best to be careful about the information you give out.
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refusetosuccumb
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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2014, 11:31:35 AM »

I still get exhausted by the smallest interaction with my ex.  My aim each time is to get in, get the kids, and get out.  Most of the times I manage to do that successfully.  But somehow, someway, I tend to trigger him.  The longest I've spent with him since we split 3 months ago was 2 hours on Fathers Day.  Went well, but damn it was exhausting.  I can't be myself around him.  But since that's going well, he's convinced that we can get back together since we are both behaving ourselves, not realizing that it takes a whole lot more than just "not fighting"  And it's not even the real Me he's getting along with.

So confusing.  But realizing that I can't control him or his reactions is freeing all on it's own.
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OutOfEgypt
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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2014, 01:31:29 PM »

Excerpt
But somehow, someway, I tend to trigger him.

Just breathing triggers them.  Being your own person triggers them 100X more.
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