Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 08:45:05 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Depression = 72% of members
Take the test, read about the implications, and check out the remedies.
111
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I was trying to use the newly learned SET communications techniques  (Read 2554 times)
startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« on: July 17, 2014, 02:55:17 PM »

I took a stand last night.  My uBPDw was yelling at me through a door.  She wouldn't even unlock the door to the bedroom so I could speak with her.  I was trying to have a conversation.   I was trying to use the newly learned SET communications techniques, but she just kept getting angrier.  I said I don't want to have a conversation while I'm being yelled it.  It's not respectful.  She balked at this and said I'm blaming her for the problem.  I said that "no, I just want to have a respectful conversation, not one where I'm being yelled at.  Let me know when you want to have a respectful conversation and I'll gladly talk with you."  Anyway, she never came to me.  At least I have my self-respect for a change.  It's very scary to draw boundaries like this when I've let her crash through my boundaries for so long, especially when she gets angry and goes into rages.
Logged
RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING
This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8817


« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 02:58:02 PM »

We someone is dysregulated, SET isn't going to help.  The best thing is politely find space and let the storm blow over.  my baggage
Logged

 
startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2014, 03:58:24 PM »

Thanks.  What do you mean by "dysregulated"?
Logged
maxsterling
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: living together, engaged
Posts: 2772



« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 04:28:02 PM »

dysregulated means her emotions are so out of control, there is nearly zero chance of you being able to do or say anything to calm her down.  Emotions have taken over her brain, and there is no rational thought left.  A calm conversation is not possible.  At this point you are best just letting her be until she calms enough to actually talk about the issue that needs to be addressed.
Logged

startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2014, 04:29:28 PM »

I just read the following:

"Emotional caretaker

According to Kraft Goin MD (University of Southern California), "borderlines need a person who is a constant, continuing, empathic force in their lives; someone who can listen and handle being the target of intense rage and idealization while concurrently defining limits and boundaries with firmness and candor".  To be in this type of relationship, you must accept the role as emotional caretaker - consistently staying above it.  "

To me, being the target of intense rage is NOT defining limits and boundaries.   To me, being the target of intense rage is unacceptable.  Is that unreasonable of me?  Is it selfish of me to not want to be the emotional caretaker of my wife?  I'm married, but I real don't have a marriage partner as far as I'm concerned.  Another question - if I find it unacceptable to be the target of intense rage, can I still be the emotional caretaker of my wife?
Logged
Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8817


« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2014, 05:12:23 PM »

Whether it's BPD or not, whenever she gets upset at me, she gets very angry and lashes out at me.  This time she made the accusations I mentioned.  Right now, I don't know how this marriage is going to survive much longer.  It's totally dead really.

I think its too late.  You've already been exposed to the anger and lashing out.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

startrekuser, you're clearly very frustrated and you are now among the ranks of the very frustrated who have come here over the last 15 years.   The first thing we tell everyone is to "Face the Facts".  Your wife has some relationship issues that are hardwired.  You can learn how to support her and try to turn this thing around, or you can leave. Two tough pathways.  The only choice you don't have is a quick fix or a magic pill.     

This is our reality.

The second point is, whether you're staying or going, its best to let go of your end of the fight right now.  You may be 100% in the right, but its not a battle you're going to win.  I'm not sure exactly what that would look like - maybe invite her on the trip and if she says no, say OK, you love her and go without.  Getting off the roller coaster and re-centering ourselves is wise.  Might take a bit.

To me, being the target of intense rage is unacceptable.  Is that unreasonable of me?

To me, too. When the rage starts, politely take the dog for a walk.  Be cool.

You're 13 years into a marriage and things are not going to change overnight.  If this is really your boundary, it didn't it work in years 1-13, so it may need some re-establishing and that takes work and time.

I know its frustrating.  Maddening.  I've lived it.

Right now, you can choose the Undecided, Staying or Leaving Board and you will get advice consistent with those objectives.

Hope this helps.

We're here for you whichever pathway you chose.

Skip




Logged

 
startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 09:32:31 PM »

I think its too late.  You've already been exposed to the anger and lashing out.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

startrekuser, you're clearly very frustrated and you are now among the ranks of the very frustrated who have come here over the last 15 years.   The first thing we tell everyone is to "Face the Facts".  Your wife has some relationship issues that are hardwired.  You can learn how to support her and try to turn this thing around, or you can leave. Two tough pathways.  The only choice you don't have is a quick fix or a magic pill.     

This is our reality.

The second point is, whether you're staying or going, its best to let go of your end of the fight right now.  You may be 100% in the right, but its not a battle you're going to win.  I'm not sure exactly what that would look like - maybe invite her on the trip and if she says no, say OK, you love her and go without.  Getting off the roller coaster and re-centering ourselves is wise.  Might take a bit.

To me, too. When the rage starts, politely take the dog for a walk.  Be cool.

You're 13 years into a marriage and things are not going to change overnight.  If this is really your boundary, it didn't it work in years 1-13, so it may need some re-establishing and that takes work and time.

I know its frustrating.  Maddening.  I've lived it.

Right now, you can choose the Undecided, Staying or Leaving Board and you will get advice consistent with those objectives.

Hope this helps.

We're here for you whichever pathway you chose.

Skip

Thanks Skip.  For now, I'm staying in the marriage and I want to learn how to deal with her behavior in the most constructive way possible.  Like you said, her behavior is maddening. 

So, I choose the Staying board, at least for now.  I can fix myself and maybe make my marriage tolerable or better.
Logged
startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2014, 09:42:52 PM »

So I'm dealing with a common situation.  She's upset about something and no matter what I say she gets angrier, so I leave the scene b/c I won't be subjected to her anger and yelling and raging.  So she says I blamed her for the problem when I said I'm walking away b/c of the yelling.  So I said when you're ready to speak respectfully come talk to me.  She never came to me.  The next day I go to work, then come home at the end of the day and she won't talk to me and is actually scared of me (or is just acting that way).  Crazy, right?  So I know that she wants me to take the initiative and come talk to her, but it's only so I give in completely, admit I was wrong, etc and take all the blame.  I really don't want to do that.  I'm much happier not talking to her b/c if I do, the blaming, anger will all start again.  Anyone have any recommendations?  Thanks.
Logged
Rapt Reader
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3626



WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2014, 12:02:36 AM »

Hey, startrekuser 

When I've been in situations like that (before finding the information on this site) with my Husband, things would escalate like that and he'd give me the silent treatment. Over things that made no sense to me, or over things I didn't even know what they were, or over things that I felt were unfair to me. Before learning the Communication Tools, I would keep trying to explain why he misunderstood me, or why what he was mad about didn't make any sense. I kept trying to understand what the problem was and defend myself. All that did was escalate his anger, and he would blow up, and then be stoic and ignore me. The pain I felt was immeasurable: for not being understood, for not being allowed to be heard, for being ignored. It really was hurtful, and messed up my self-esteem.

What I've found is that when he gets angry at me for some crazy thing now, I listen to his complaint, nod my head, really try to hear what is behind the anger. Sometimes I can figure it out and I can use S.E.T.: "I can tell that you are really angry, and you feel that I've been ignoring you. If I felt ignored, that would hurt me too... .I get it; my tone of voice must've seemed dismissive. I'm done with the laptop now; what do you need?" And I make sure my voice is sympathetic, and my expression is loving (it's not hard to do; I don't like making my husband feel hurt, and I really do love him).

Other times, if he's unwilling to talk (so that S.E.T. isn't an option), or if I really have no idea what I did wrong, I now know that I shouldn't be taking this personally--it's his emotions and not me that is the problem, and I just remove myself from him and do what I would normally do. No trying to get him to talk, not explaining myself, no questioning him, no trying to pull anything out of him to "figure this out". The thing is, there is no figuring this out, so I'm free to be kind to him and loving, but leave him to get over it himself.

Have you read the links to the right-hand side of this page? Have you ever checked out Radical Acceptance for family members? For me, there's some sort of difference in letting my husband work out his anger/silent treatment by not engaging, but in an understanding, loving way--instead of by feeling hurt by it and angry, and fuming inside with indignation and pride. The positive energy of leaving him alone with love, rather than the negative energy of ignoring him "back", makes it easier for him to get through his anger/silence and come back to me with love, too. Does any of that make sense?

At least, this is what has made things go better in my relationship... .

Logged

waverider
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married 8 yrs, together 16yrs
Posts: 7405


If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2014, 12:22:39 AM »

An important thing here is not to try to sell her your reality.

Whatever you do she will fight against it. Dont try to explain it. Do it again next time, she will react badly again. Then do it again and so on until she finds it pointless having dramas over it.

Whatever your actions are to be think them through beforehand so you know you are being fair and can stick to them. Dont try making up boundary actions in the moment, as backing down will make all future boundaries harder to maintain.

pwBPD resist changes, as that is like loosing control.
Logged

  Reality is shared and open to debate, feelings are individual and real
withoutapaddle

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 23


« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2014, 02:41:29 AM »

Can somebody please tell me what SET communications are or where I can find more info about it?

Thank you!
Logged
waverider
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married 8 yrs, together 16yrs
Posts: 7405


If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2014, 03:38:39 AM »

Over on the right menu here>> >

>Lessons>3.Tools
Logged

  Reality is shared and open to debate, feelings are individual and real
withoutapaddle

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 23


« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2014, 04:38:02 AM »

Sweet! Thank you very much!
Logged
startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2014, 08:50:22 AM »

Dont try making up boundary actions in the moment, as backing down will make all future boundaries harder to maintain.

Do you mean I shouldn't make up boundary actions when she crosses them?  Suppose I decide to start enforcing boundaries that I have ignored for a long time? Do I tell her that for now on I will not accept X, Y and Z or do I just wait until they happen and let her know I will not be accepting this behavior anymore?  Sitting down with her and giving her a list will bring on anger and everything else, so I figure I might as well just wait until the behavior occurs.  I thank G-d for this board.  I've been so lost for so long.  I used to be totally clueless and confused, thinking that everything was my fault.  Therapists were completely worthless.  Thanks. 
Logged
startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2014, 09:04:25 AM »

Another question.  How do I handle incessant blaming:  "You did this and it hurt our marriage.  It's your fault. You also did that and it hurt me.  You purposely do these things to get me REALLY angry... .and on and on and on and on"?

I can't stand listening to that BS.  What should I do?
Logged
waverider
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married 8 yrs, together 16yrs
Posts: 7405


If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2014, 09:13:40 AM »

Dont try making up boundary actions in the moment, as backing down will make all future boundaries harder to maintain.

Do you mean I shouldn't make up boundary actions when she crosses them?  Suppose I decide to start enforcing boundaries that I have ignored for a long time? Do I tell her that for now on I will not accept X, Y and Z or do I just wait until they happen and let her know I will not be accepting this behavior anymore?  Sitting down with her and giving her a list will bring on anger and everything else, so I figure I might as well just wait until the behavior occurs.  I thank G-d for this board.  I've been so lost for so long.  I used to be totally clueless and confused, thinking that everything was my fault.  Therapists were completely worthless.  Thanks. 

You are right you don't need to discuss them with her.

The point is many of these things that already affect you are known to you. Think about them and what you are going to enact when they happen, before they happen. That way you are prepared in advance, rather than just make up an action in the moment. This will enable you to think it though objectively rather reactively.

Another question.  How do I handle incessant blaming:  "You did this and it hurt our marriage.  It's your fault. You also did that and it hurt me.  You purposely do these things to get me REALLY angry... .and on and on and on and on"?

I can't stand listening to that BS.  What should I do?

Remove yourself. Words/demands/ultimatums will have no effect.

You cant stop her from doing anything. You can stop yourself from being subjected to things.

Whatever you choose to do, do it BEFORE it gets you angry.
Logged

  Reality is shared and open to debate, feelings are individual and real
Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8817


« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2014, 09:47:31 AM »

Do you mean I shouldn't make up boundary actions when she crosses them?  Suppose I decide to start enforcing boundaries that I have ignored for a long time? Do I tell her that for now on I will not accept X, Y and Z or do I just wait until they happen and let her know I will not be accepting this behavior anymore?  Sitting down with her and giving her a list will bring on anger and everything else, so I figure I might as well just wait until the behavior occurs.  

This is the cattle prod technique.  Devise ultimatums, enforce with punishment.  Its not even nice for cattle.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Read this.  The process is a little more involved and you implement it it stages and do it as cooperatively as possible. 

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

Conceptually, you're trying to "re-train" a relationship.

Logged

 
thereishope
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: married, together 4 years
Posts: 363



« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2014, 11:19:23 AM »

I just read the following:

"Emotional caretaker

According to Kraft Goin MD (University of Southern California), "borderlines need a person who is a constant, continuing, empathic force in their lives; someone who can listen and handle being the target of intense rage and idealization while concurrently defining limits and boundaries with firmness and candor".  To be in this type of relationship, you must accept the role as emotional caretaker - consistently staying above it.  "

To me, being the target of intense rage is NOT defining limits and boundaries.   To me, being the target of intense rage is unacceptable.  Is that unreasonable of me?  Is it selfish of me to not want to be the emotional caretaker of my wife?  I'm married, but I real don't have a marriage partner as far as I'm concerned.  Another question - if I find it unacceptable to be the target of intense rage, can I still be the emotional caretaker of my wife?

I feel this same way about my marriage/husband.
Logged
startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2014, 11:47:36 AM »

This is the cattle prod technique.  Devise ultimatums, enforce with punishment.  Its not even nice for cattle.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Read this.  The process is a little more involved and you implement it it stages and do it as cooperatively as possible. 

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

Conceptually, you're trying to "re-train" a relationship.

Thanks Skip.  This is the best tool I've seen so far on this site.
Logged
startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2014, 11:53:22 AM »

I feel this same way about my marriage/husband.

The way I see things going for me is the following:

1.  I establish strong boundaries and learn how to speak more in the SET manner.  I know this will take a long time.

2. Ask for things that I want/need in the relationship.  This can only be done after I've gained a lot confidence in establishing boundaries and mastered the techniques in step 1 above.

How does that sound? 

What has your experience been like?  Have you been able to set boundaries or improve your relationship?  It sounds like you haven't.
Logged
Rapt Reader
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3626



WWW
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2014, 12:06:12 PM »

My experience with that kind of thing changed when I read a really good book: Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. In it, she describes the kind of escalating situation that you are finding yourself in (and all of us have been in!) as like being in a hamster wheel. You (possibly inadvertently) do or say one thing, your wife then gets angry and rages over it, accusing you of the things that "push your buttons", and then you react back with anger and maybe denial or explanations or hurtful comments. The two of you are just running faster and faster in that hamster wheel, and the momentum can lead to confusion, pain, exhaustion.

What she suggests is that once you notice the wheel starts turning (hopefully with the first look or comment from your wife that indicates a dysregulation is about to happen), you jump off that hamster wheel so that she's running in it all by herself. It doesn't go as fast, and it could even stop spinning all together.

How do you do that? Well, the first thing is to not do what you usually do. Whether it's defending yourself, expressing anger or confusion or pain, or whatever it is that your knee-jerk reaction always is. Even just doing something different--anything--will stop the hamster wheel. It's not what is expected by her, and she will stop dead in her tracks most times. If you can't figure out a logical "different" thing to do (mine was to STOP defending myself, saying "What did I do? Why do you get so MAD about that? I didn't DO anything! This doesn't make SENSE!", then just do nothing. Be calm, be loving, walk away with love.

The changes I made were to not defend myself or express the fact that I was indignant, but to listen to his anger and validate it if I could (like I mentioned in my post above). And if I couldn't do that in any way, just show an empathetic, loving (but not condescending) face to him and remove myself in a friendly, loving manner. In a way, that was my "setting a boundary" that I wouldn't put up with the dysregulation, but I didn't do it in a negative way. Believe me, the hamster wheel stops when you don't give it the energy you used to. It's too hard for my Husband to run that thing as fast as it used to go, when I jump off of it 

Logged

blubee

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 21



« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2014, 01:15:57 PM »

"Emotional caretaker

According to Kraft Goin MD (University of Southern California), "borderlines need a person who is a constant, continuing, empathetic force in their lives; someone who can listen and handle being the target of intense rage and idealization while concurrently defining limits and boundaries with firmness and candor".  To be in this type of relationship, you must accept the role as emotional caretaker - consistently staying above it.  "

To me, being the target of intense rage is NOT defining limits and boundaries.   To me, being the target of intense rage is unacceptable.  Is that unreasonable of me?  Is it selfish of me to not want to be the emotional caretaker of my wife?  I'm married, but I real don't have a marriage partner as far as I'm concerned.  Another question - if I find it unacceptable to be the target of intense rage, can I still be the emotional caretaker of my wife?

I don't agree with using the term "emotional caretaker".  There is something about it that doesn't sit right with me.  I can see that learning to be a constant empathetic force would be good in any situation.  defining limits and boundaries with someone who is exhibiting intense rage and idealization is no doubt the healthiest response.   

I think it is perfectly reasonable to put up a boundary that shows your wife that you will not be the target of her intense rage.  You are showing her self respect and love at the same time.   

(mine was to STOP defending myself, saying "What did I do? Why do you get so MAD about that? I didn't DO anything! This doesn't make SENSE!", then just do nothing. Be calm, be loving, walk away with love.

The changes I made were to not defend myself or express the fact that I was indignant, but to listen to his anger and validate it if I could (like I mentioned in my post above). And if I couldn't do that in any way, just show an empathetic, loving (but not condescending) face to him and remove myself in a friendly, loving manner. In a way, that was my "setting a boundary" that I wouldn't put up with the dysregulation, but I didn't do it in a negative way. Believe me, the hamster wheel stops when you don't give it the energy you used to. It's too hard for my Husband to run that thing as fast as it used to go, when I jump off of it 

wow this takes so much self love.  So much self validation to accomplish.  When a borderline is not in reality and doesn't fight fair.  It's crazy making. Their own sense of low self worth is constantly projected onto their partner.  And it hurts deeply.   
Logged
Skip
Site Director
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 8817


« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2014, 01:27:07 PM »

wow this takes so much self love.  So much self validation to accomplish.  When a borderline is not in reality and doesn't fight fair.  It's crazy making. Their own sense of low self worth is constantly projected onto their partner.  And it hurts deeply.   

Remember.  Its a relationship.  Its not just her/him.

We are often in a cycle of conflict, each person fueling the other.  Stopping that and replacing it with something else helps.  Sometimes remarkably. And overtime, things change, they adapt, you adapt.

This is the leadership - the caretaking - that you provide.  There are other ways too.

We have many members that have had success with this.

Its is no magic bullet, however.  It doesn't work overnight.  Some will not ever be responsive.  Some of us don't have the strength or skill of desire to heal things.

Logged

 
blubee

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 21



« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2014, 02:35:21 PM »

ok I understand... maybe I am seeing the word caretaker in the wrong way.  My mother was such an emotional prisoner to my BPDfather.  He needed her to "take care" of him.  On his terms.  And she was his slave.   She obviously did not have the tools and either did he. 

So you are saying that care taking is setting healthy boundaries.   Responding in love (true love).   I have so much to learn  Smiling (click to insert in post)   
Logged
Rapt Reader
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3626



WWW
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2014, 02:38:33 PM »

So you are saying that care taking is setting healthy boundaries.   Responding in love (true love).   I have so much to learn  Smiling (click to insert in post)   

That really is at the core of it... .responding in love.

I like that, blubee 

Logged

startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2014, 02:41:37 PM »

There's something that I really struggle with.  When she gets upset and the BPD behavior rears its ugly head, there is always some shred of truth to what she is saying.  There will be something that I did wrong and she takes that and really knows how to take advantage of the things that are important to me to try and make me feel guilty.  Her level of hurt and reaction are WAY out of proportion with the actual wrong that I committed.  I have to separate my action and what I should do to repent (apologize, etc) from her behavior.  

For example, we had a recent conflict and she blew up and so did I.  I finally gave in and apologized.  She didn't.  Then she said I need to beg her for forgiveness.  I said "I don't beg", which I think was the right thing to say and I considered that a big success on my part. There are other things that I agreed to that I consider a failure.  I don't want to go into it, but let's just say that it's something that I have to "un"-agree to.  That's the type of thing that I can't do anymore - agree to things I don't want to do b/c of her anger and rage.  She has continued with her BPD behavior ever since then (over a week now), so my appeasement meant nothing.  There will be other things I will "un"-agree to in the future.  First, I have to set my boundaries and stick with them.
Logged
Rapt Reader
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3626



WWW
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2014, 02:58:47 PM »

There's something that I really struggle with.  When she gets upset and the BPD behavior rears its ugly head, there is always some shred of truth to what she is saying.  There will be something that I did wrong and she takes that and really knows how to take advantage of the things that are important to me to try and make me feel guilty.  Her level of hurt and reaction are WAY out of proportion with the actual wrong that I committed.  I have to separate my action and what I should do to repent (apologize, etc) from her behavior.

That does make things harder, startrekuser: when something said by our spouse trips the guilt wire in us. I don't like that either, even while I know that the reaction is way over the top, and the supposed crime isn't as big as he thinks. It does take some work in my own head to deal with that... .Like, if I'm validating or using S.E.T., I make sure to acknowledge what I know is true, and I just kinda leave out what I know is overblown. If I'm kind enough with that, it does seem to do the trick.  

That's the type of thing that I can't do anymore - agree to things I don't want to do b/c of her anger and rage.  She has continued with her BPD behavior ever since then (over a week now), so my appeasement meant nothing.  There will be other things I will "un"-agree to in the future.  First, I have to set my boundaries and stick with them.

I, also, have learned not to make promises or acknowledgments that I can't hold to, during the heat of trying to stop a rage. In fact, I've learned to try to keep quiet about such things, and just be empathetic and understanding, and maybe not say anything. I've really learned not to flare up in anger in response to him. I just can't do that; it prolongs the episode or resulting silent treatment, or whatever. I had to learn to let my anger go... .I tell myself: "It's not him talking, it's his dysregulated emotions".

I know that it isn't easy to do this when we are so used to reacting with what we feel are "normal" reactions. I know that sometimes the episode is so strange, so out of left field, that it strikes us out of no where and we react before we think. I do that sometimes, too. It takes time and commitment and a real desire for the relationship to work to get out of our own emotion mind and use our wise mind in such situations. But you know what? Now that I've learned (and this didn't happen overnight!) how to use my "wise mind", when I react quickly using my "emotion mind", I realize it right away and I change my strategy to be wiser. One of us in this relationship needs to be the wise one 

Logged

waverider
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married 8 yrs, together 16yrs
Posts: 7405


If YOU don't change, things will stay the same


« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2014, 09:13:14 PM »

That spark of truth beneath all the smoke is the reason we have to believe in our own reality.

If you feel you have a genuine reason to apologize be very careful how you word it and what you are apologizing for as they can interpret that as you taking responsibility for everything.

Often an apology is only for your own piece of mind, to know you have done the right thing. It is often better to do this sometime later. Not as an attempt to defuse the situation, as that rarely works.
Logged

  Reality is shared and open to debate, feelings are individual and real
startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2014, 11:19:47 PM »

Remove yourself. Words/demands/ultimatums will have no effect.

You cant stop her from doing anything. You can stop yourself from being subjected to things.

Whatever you choose to do, do it BEFORE it gets you angry.

When you say "Remove yourself", what do you mean?  Do you mean remove myself physically from the scene or just not let what she is saying affect me?  Thanks.
Logged
startrekuser
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 201



« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2014, 11:46:00 PM »

Hey, startrekuser 

When I've been in situations like that (before finding the information on this site) with my Husband, things would escalate like that and he'd give me the silent treatment. Over things that made no sense to me, or over things I didn't even know what they were, or over things that I felt were unfair to me. Before learning the Communication Tools, I would keep trying to explain why he misunderstood me, or why what he was mad about didn't make any sense. I kept trying to understand what the problem was and defend myself. All that did was escalate his anger, and he would blow up, and then be stoic and ignore me. The pain I felt was immeasurable: for not being understood, for not being allowed to be heard, for being ignored. It really was hurtful, and messed up my self-esteem.

What I've found is that when he gets angry at me for some crazy thing now, I listen to his complaint, nod my head, really try to hear what is behind the anger. Sometimes I can figure it out and I can use S.E.T.: "I can tell that you are really angry, and you feel that I've been ignoring you. If I felt ignored, that would hurt me too... .I get it; my tone of voice must've seemed dismissive. I'm done with the laptop now; what do you need?" And I make sure my voice is sympathetic, and my expression is loving (it's not hard to do; I don't like making my husband feel hurt, and I really do love him).

Other times, if he's unwilling to talk (so that S.E.T. isn't an option), or if I really have no idea what I did wrong, I now know that I shouldn't be taking this personally--it's his emotions and not me that is the problem, and I just remove myself from him and do what I would normally do. No trying to get him to talk, not explaining myself, no questioning him, no trying to pull anything out of him to "figure this out". The thing is, there is no figuring this out, so I'm free to be kind to him and loving, but leave him to get over it himself.

Have you read the links to the right-hand side of this page? Have you ever checked out Radical Acceptance for family members? For me, there's some sort of difference in letting my husband work out his anger/silent treatment by not engaging, but in an understanding, loving way--instead of by feeling hurt by it and angry, and fuming inside with indignation and pride. The positive energy of leaving him alone with love, rather than the negative energy of ignoring him "back", makes it easier for him to get through his anger/silence and come back to me with love, too. Does any of that make sense?

At least, this is what has made things go better in my relationship... .

Thank you Rapt for the advice.  I'm still not sure what to do.  I tried speaking to my wife like I said and had to leave the conversation b/c of her abusive and disrespectful behavior.  I told her that when she's ready to have a respectful conversation to come to me.  Now she won't talk to me and avoids me like I have the plague.  I know that she wants me to come to her to talk, but I really don't want to.   A typical ending is her coming to me wondering why I wouldn't come to her to talk.  It might be in the middle of the night and she wakes me up.  Either way she'll be blaming and shaming me for not taking the initiative to speak to her.  What's the right thing to do? I think that if I take the initiative, I would be NOT enforcing a boundary that I just established.  I'm thinking of sending her a gentle email reminder of why I'm not taking the initiative and that she can come talk to me anytime I'm free (not when I'm sleeping, etc.).
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!