Wife diagnosed with BPD - Explains a lot.

[Hope12345]

This will be long.

Married 14 years with a 14 year old son.  Three years ago I learned of an affair my wife had.  Confronted her and she told me the tale of a one night stand.  I put my foot down and told her to move out, but on the day she was leaving, she broke down and said she would do anything to fix the marriage.  We entered counseling where soon after she confessed to two other affairs, each lasting a month or two, and dating back a year or more.  Spent two years in couples counseling, first dealing with affairs, then my controlling issues(I have them), and all the while our communication.

Couple counseling was a Godsend, we grew as a couple in ways we never knew possible.  I got passed the affairs because, for the most part, she was remorseful and the time lines coincided with bad parts of our marriage, and I played a role in that.  I never took responsibility for the affairs, only partial responsibility for the condition of the marriage at the time.

After two years of couples work, we stopped and began moving forward, still have a far better marriage though her anxiety, depression, and problem drinking continued.  We were one year out from counseling when I went out of town for three days and a text she sent me just didn't sit well with me.  It was something to the effect of "won't have time to call you tonight".  Came home the next day and decided to check the text log from earlier the day before.  I knew just by the number of texts sent that something was a foot.  I confronted her and she did not deny having another affair.  Told her to leave a few days while I packed up and moved out, which I did.  Not much communication the next week or so, other than angry and hurtful outburst by me and sorries from her.  After another week we began talking, more about our son, but she proceeded to tell me about a one month affair with a coworker.  She asked if we could go back to counseling and I said yes.  I asked her some general questions about the affair and she answered them.  Questions like last contact, was it over, how did you end contact, etc.

Several days later we were talking again, before our first counseling session, and I asked again the same questions about the affair I had asked above.  The answers were different.  I confronted her about the lies and told her she had 5 minutes to come clean or there was no way I was moving forward with her.  She then admitted to another affair, one that had not only been going on for years, but was going on during our second year of couples counseling.  This destroyed me above all else because this occurred when our marriage was supposedly at its best.  I demanded full disclosure in writing and what she gave me was more than I bargained for.  Of our 14 year marriage, she was in affairs for 11 of them.  These were no emotional affairs.  She targeted emotional unavailable men for trysts - meetings, just for sex, once every other month or so.  It became obvious to me that these was not your typical affair pattern and something pathological was at hand.  She had been seeing a therapist on her own for several years for general anxiety issues but often missed appointments and admittedly left the therapist completely in the dark regarding her actions, as she did me, and our couples counselor.

In the last couple weeks, she has met with her therapist and come clean, we have met with our couples therapist and she has come clean, and I began meeting with my own therapist.  We are still working towards reconciliation.  If this was a romantic affair, probably not, but the idea of it being tied to a "sickness" and the fact that I now feel "safer" living out of the home, I am willing to see how this plays out.

Once coming clean to her therapist, her therapist immediately told her this appeared to be BPD and wanted to begin DPT immediately, seeing her weekly.  My wife tells me she is committed to see this through because she knows she has a disorder, everything we read about BPD just fits everything we each saw in her(not just the affairs).  Wife is actually quite positive and hopeful, feeling like she finally knows what is wrong with her(she never denied feeling like something was wrong with her).

As of now, we have all three therapist working together.  Hers working with the BPD with the goal of saving the marriage, our couples therapist with the goal of helping to understand the affairs and rebuild trust(long road there), and my therapist helping me to understand BPD and how I have played a role in all of this, as well as working on boundaries and self respect.  My therapist is of the mind that people can change but I need to proceed slowly and with caution.

We are trying to leave the difficult questions in therapy every week for now and just trying to be comfortable again with each other.  She tells me these affairs were just for sex and meant to provide a thrill of excitement that she could not communicate a need for in the marriage.  She and her therapist feel this can be brought into the marriage through communication.  I struggle with this for two reasons.  I wonder how much of this sexual acting out was the disorder and how much of it can be chalked up to unmet needs due to lack of communication of those needs, and how do we determine that?  I also wonder if it can really be brought into a marriage.  I have spoken to people who have had an affair.  Most seem to suggest the thrill of the "forbidden fruit" can not be duplicated, and in the end, no amount of thrill within our marriage will curb that appetite.  I do understand that even if that is true, marriage is about compromise, though compromise has never been her strength.

Sorry for the novel.  Our journey to recovery, if it can happen, has only begun.  Btw, my therapist gave me "I hate you, don't leave me" to read and it was an eye opener.  Much of what it discussed rang true in our marriage and in her family life, to include child hood.  If nothing else, I am more positive that we are finally able to find some explanation for these behaviors.

Thanks for reading.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[DreamFlyer99]

Hi Hope12345 and 

No worries about writing a novel. We all have such similar yet different stories and getting the context of your history helps us know how to better help you. And since i tend to write novels just in answer to someone, well, you're speakin' my language!

I have to say I'm really impressed by your dedication in this marriage, your wife is very fortunate to have someone like you who is willing to try their best to understand and work through things. Not everyone is or can. And you've taken a lot of hits to your self-esteem but come out of them dusting yourself off and getting back into the work of the marriage. That's pretty amazing, since everyone here knows how intense these relationships can be!

Most of us have sustained some childhood damage whether it was from the adults around us or other children, and i've seen how that's come into play in my own life growing up with a likely BPD/NPD mother and a functional alcoholic father. That damage can cause real problems in our adult lives since we carry it into our relationships. i personally thank you for being willing to have compassion toward your wife's issues.

You seem so willing to take responsibility for anything you may have contributed to the problems in your marriage, and that is a huge deal too. It says that you'll be willing to dive into the healing journey you can take here. There are tools to be learned for more effective communication also for your own self-care and so much more on the Staying board, plus you'll receive great support from members who understand what you're dealing with. There are senior members there too who can help you learn to apply those tools. With all the therapy going on and you choosing to make any changes you can in your own life to help the marriage and the things you can learn here, good things can happen.

Here's the link to that board: Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner

There's some really helpful reading in the right hand sidebar, and feel free to jump into any ongoing discussion that looks interesting, or start a new topic of your own.

And welcome to the learning journey!

dreamflyer 

[HealingSpirit]

Dear Hope12345,

I'm so sorry to read all the difficulty you've had with your BPD wife.  My duaghter(17) has BPD, so I understand the constant heartbreak and the ups and downs of loving someone with the disorder.  It's GREAT that you've been in counselling and that your wife agrees she has a problem.  That is a huge step toward recovery!  It's also excellent that you've already read "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me."  My therapist gave me that to read too, and you're right... .it is an eye opener.  

I truly admire and respect your commitment to your wife and your marriage, painful as it is for you.  And I'd like to acknowledge you for your courage to post your story here.  I do think many of her behaviors you described (including the infidelity) are linked to BPD. And I want you to know you're not alone and there is hope!

There are specific tools (communication, validation, boundaries, timeout) that everyone in a relationship with a person suffering from borderline personality disorder needs to master. People with this disorder tend to perceive the world differently than you and I, but there is an order and the rationale within that perception - it's not just random craziness as we might sometimes think. Our senior members on the message board Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner are very good at helping apply these principles to everyday life problems. The educational material associated with that group is based on the work from leading experts in the disorder.

You have come to the right place for extra support and wisdom from people who are dealing with very similar issues!  This site is also filled with links to tools to help you cope, and recommendations of more books about BPD.  I am currently reading "Loving Someone with BPD" by Shari Manning, Ph.D.  I'm finding it much more helpful than "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" because she offers a more hopeful view of the disorder and offers lots of skills and tools you can use that really help YOU to cope.

Hang in there!  I know you're going to feel right at home here... .

 

[Hope12345]

Thank you both for your comments.  This is the hardest thing I have ever been faced with.  We are working through understanding the affairs, while understanding her disorder, while understanding the impact it has had on me for focusing on me taking care of myself.  Feels like a no win situation but we are taking it day by day.  I do feel fortunate, and wouldn't be trying otherwise, that she recognizes the problem and appears to be committed to treatment. 

HealingSpirit - Thank you for the book recommendation.  I just read the intro to "Loving Someone with BPD" and it really hit home for me.

[an0ught]

Hi Hope12345,

it is good to hear that you both have individual support - this is really the best set-up for dealing with BPD.

We are trying to leave the difficult questions in therapy every week for now and just trying to be comfortable again with each other.  She tells me these affairs were just for sex and meant to provide a thrill of excitement that she could not communicate a need for in the marriage.  She and her therapist feel this can be brought into the marriage through communication.  I struggle with this for two reasons. I wonder how much of this sexual acting out was the disorder and how much of it can be chalked up to unmet needs due to lack of communication of those needs, and how do we determine that?  I also wonder if it can really be brought into a marriage.  I have spoken to people who have had an affair.  Most seem to suggest the thrill of the "forbidden fruit" can not be duplicated, and in the end, no amount of thrill within our marriage will curb that appetite.  I do understand that even if that is true, marriage is about compromise, though compromise has never been her strength.

it is 53% one and 47% the other. Seriously, this was a a good question but there is unfortunately no good answer and possibly you need to let go of the question. Knowing the answer (if there is one) will not help you to move forward. Nor will it tell you what happens in the future as right now you both are working hard on better understanding and growing.

There are some pwBPD that struggle with maintaining a stable relationship. Others maintain very long lasting relationships. Fear of abandonment is thought to be behind both. Your relationship has been going on for 14 years so there is some track record to go by. While there may be a thrill seeking element a lot of behavior of people and in particular pwBPD is determined by their need for validation. PwBPD have a knack to turn their environment against them until it becomes invalidating. Then seeking validation elsewhere (at high cost and driving more invalidation later) is the quick-fix solution. There are significant and persistent changes couples can bring about in their relationship by adopting a more validating communication style. You'll find more information in the LESSONS on the Staying Board.

 If nothing else, I am more positive that we are finally able to find some explanation for these behaviors.

Understanding is an important first step and provides significant relief. Unfortunately it won't change much as a lot of the behavior is happening when reason is on vacation. Just focusing on understanding will eventually stall progress. Changes can be brought about by hard work to better maintain emotional balance and boundaries that limit the problems caused by acting out and leave the consequences with the person causing them. If she is suffering from BPD the affair was just one of her ways acting out in your daily life. Recognizing them and finding new and healthier ways to respond can be a challenge as it means unlearning a lot of the behavior you've adopted over time. This is not saying you are the problem or she has not lot's of work to change. The way it usually works is that her problems rubbed off and fixing yourself is becoming a priority. You'll find the Staying board a good place to discuss and complement your therapy.

,

a0

[DreamFlyer99]

 

Understanding is an important first step and provides significant relief. Unfortunately it won't change much as a lot of the behavior is happening when reason is on vacation. Just focusing on understanding will eventually stall progress.

What a great point An0ught makes about "just focusing on understanding will eventually stall progress." I'm like you, Hope12345, I love to dig around and figure out the "whys" of things. But I can get stuck there because life is about moving forward. We also need to look at what can help us for tomorrow and the next day and the day after that, no matter what the reasons were for what already happened. So I can seek understanding, but being armed with boundaries and other tools helps in the day to day when our partner is thinking like a wounded child. 

df

[Hope12345]

UPDATE

It felt wrong starting a new thread when this one not only includes the back story, but also the advice which I am only now beginning to understand.

So much has happened since my first post.  Sorry for not frequenting the board more but I spent most of the last year or more struggling to find my place in the online support group world.  I guess I was trying to determine which was the bigger issue, the serial infidelity or the BPD, because it seems those of us struggling to reconcile with a BPD spouse, who was also a serial cheater, make up a very small dysfunctional subset of two, often emotionally charged, groups.  Those dealing with loved ones who suffer from BPD, and those dealing with being cheated on... .and most of those who find themselves being a “double winner”, do not find themselves on the Staying board.

To be honest, I stepped away from this board early on because I did not like what I was hearing.  The thought of not focusing on the whys, regarding the infidelity, just seemed wrong to me, and the idea of “stalling progress” by trying to understand the affairs conflicted with my reality.  For me, letting go of that question was not an option.  In my line of work, there is a need to understand the whys, because without the whys…... without understanding why a person behaved a certain way, one can not work to change the behavior.  I still feel that is true, though admit that I may have been focusing on the wrong whys at the time.

I have spent most of the last year or so feeling stuck…... and not sure why.  I have gone through three individual therapist, and now working with #4, who is also seeing us for couples therapy.  We fired our original couples therapist early on because she continued to gloss over my BPDw behavior, portraying her as the victim and me the problem in the relationship, and even my BPDw picked up on this quickly.  She would get cut off when she attempted to own her part in some of our issues.  We stopped couples counseling altogether and focused on individual.  As I said, I bounced around several for reasons I am only now grasping.  BPDw continued with her therapist but I had growing concerns about her progress.  It was this therapist who suggested BPD, which we both agree is the correct diagnosis.  She gave my wife the DBT handbook and although they initially began working through it, they both seemed to lose focus quickly and their sessions, which she shared with me, started to feel more like one sided couples counseling, with BPDw discussing my behaviors and reactions, and the therapist labeling me controlling, even though this therapist never met me.  We got to a point where we thought we would give couples therapy another shot because we were still spinning in circles over my need to know more and more about the whys of the affairs, and the idea of validation was just not sitting well with me.

After doing some research, and asking the right questions, we found a family therapy practice which is experienced working with BPD partners.  Their approach is rather unique to anything I was familiar with.  We meet with one therapist for couples counseling, and I meet with her for individual if the need exists.  BPDw meets with another therapist focusing on DBT.  As needed, we all four come together as a group for sort of a couples counseling with her BPD therapist there to help moderate/translate.  We were both sold on the concept as it just seemed to fit what we were seeking.

This past week we had what seemed like an eye opening session with just the couples therapist.  We were stuck.  I continue to focus, or dwell, on the why’s, the how could you’s, and the what were you thinking’s.  BPDw, who two years ago would have scoffed at the thought she was BPD, and is now committed to treatment, both for herself and us, feels my obsession over the specifics of the affairs is stalling her own progress in treatment, not just couples therapy.  The therapist agreed and feels I need to make a decision.  Let go of those questions and take a leap of faith, or accept that I need to move on from this relationship.  BPDw suggested I meet with the therapist for an individual session to help decide but the therapist disagreed, feeling it was something she could not help me with.  I think at that moment I realized why I bounced around so many individual therapist……I wanted them to help me make a decision only I could make……and stopped seeing them when it was clear I wasn’t getting it from them.

Ironically, the advice on this board that drove me away is what caused me to gravitate back.  It is all now starting to click.  I am now seeing how I am contributing to our stalled progress and think I have an idea of what I can do to help unstuck me, and us.

I just want to say the comments and advice I received on this thread is spot on and I am sorry I was not ready to listen back then.  Also sorry for subjecting you all to yet another novel.  Maybe if I don’t wait so long to post updates they will be shorter.

[an0ught]

  Hope12345,

yes it feels wrong to start a new thread but it feels also wrong letting your great posts linger in "Technical assistance" so I took the liberty to move it to the Staying Board. This is not to say I don't see that you are struggling at the very moment with the difficult question   whether you are staying.

The consultation setup you are having seems to be exemplary with counseling together and having individual counselors and wife receiving DBT.

BPDw suggested I meet with the therapist for an individual session to help decide but the therapist disagreed, feeling it was something she could not help me with.

And counselors that know where to draw the line  . This is really your decision. Maybe not one to rush but one to make eventually.

Often looking back we see that there are large parts of our partners we did not understand. We can call it a lie but I don't think that captures the fact that both sides were caught up in warped reality. Over time through efforts on both sides, therapy, education (books, LESSONS) and other input (friends, board) both sides change and also both sides see/perceive differently. Together this is a huge change. During the troubled times the drama contributed to holding everything together. When things are calmer it is easier to let go.

It is worth remembering that having core values beyond the relationship and the ability to ultimately let go when push comes to shove is critical to be serious about boundaries. Quite a number of relationships on this board have turned around at this exact point in a positive direction.

Going forward with her would be a different relationship. Not the one you thought you had in the past, not the one you really had in the past but another one or maybe not another one. And you are absolutely right clinging to the past is holding you back. You may find some workshops on the workshop board on dealing with ruminations, detaching and grieving and that may help you letting go of the past making it easier to move forward in either direction.

Keep us posted here or on new treads ,

a0

[babyducks]

Hi Hope12345,

welcome back.   

Like many of us here I too have a relationship with some pretty grievous past events that go beyond the boundaries of what a normal relationship would be able to sustain.    Infidelity wasn't our issues, violent rages was/is.  For a while my partner and I were stuck on figuring out what went wrong and re-living and rehashing those arguments over and over.   That was not a good approach for either of us because what it did was further etch the argument(s) into our collective memory and entrench our individual positions.   

I noticed this in what you wrote and found it interesting.

In my line of work, there is a need to understand the whys, because without the whys…... without understanding why a person behaved a certain way, one can not work to change the behavior. 

In my line of work I spend a lot of time figuring out the why of things too, and by nature I am an "understanding driven" personality.  I brought that into the relationship with me.  I am more the logical fact driven one in my partnership.   What I found was that in this one instance being understanding driven did not serve me well, and that was a real shake up to my inner core.   I had always  relied on being able to decipher and logically comprehend.  In this instance the dialectical tension between my feelings and the facts belied that.  If I wanted to stay in the relationship, and I did, I was going to need to find a way to look beyond past events.   Not blithely forget and forgive them, but look beyond them to envision a future.   To put the past events away on a shelf.

This was tough because it meant forging an entirely new relationship, almost from the ground floor up in many ways.  I agree with an0ught when he said

  During the troubled times the drama contributed to holding everything together.

It wasn't that I didn't WANT to do things differently, it was more that I didn't know how.   Here is what I learned through my experience.   Radical acceptance is my friend.   Ruminations are NOT my friend.   A leap of faith almost by it's very nature requires you to be terrified.   Validation is not easy to do, I find SET comes more naturally to me.   Letting go is hard.

This helped me with letting go:

To let go isn't to forget, to not think about or ignore.  It doesn't leave feelings of anger, jealousy or regret.  Letting go isn't about winning or losing.  It's not about pride and it's not about how you appear, and it's not about dwelling or obsessing on the past.   Letting go isn't blocking memories or thinking sad thoughts and doesn't leave emptiness, hurt or sadness.  It's not about giving in or giving up.  To let go is to cherish the memories but to overcome and move on.  It is having an open mind and confidence in the future.  Letting go is learning and experiencing and growing.  To let go is to be thankful for the experiences that made you laugh, made you cry and made you grow.   It's about all that you have, all that you had, and all that you will soon gain.   Letting go is having the courage to accept change and the strength to keep moving.

I hope to see more posts from you.

'ducks

[shatra]

Babydicks wrote---

I had always  relied on being able to decipher and logically comprehend.  In this instance the dialectical tension between my feelings and the facts belied that.  If I wanted to stay in the relationship, and I did, I was going to need to find a way to look beyond past events.   Not blithely forget and forgive them, but look beyond them to envision a future.   To put the past events away on a shelf.

-----It's true that BPD traits go against logic and rationality.  But to put the past away on a shelf and look beyond them sounds like opening the door to having them be repeated.  If Hope posted that his wife has kept admitting to more and more affairs, wouldn't it help to go through the details and understand why she did this?  Otherwise they might be repeated.

[LonelyChild]

Hi,

How many years of your existence on this planet do you want to spend understanding her hurtful behavior?

If I walk up to you in the street and punch you in the face, would you want to sit down with me for a couple of hours and understand my behavior, or you do want to move away from my hurtful behavior?

What makes you think that this can come to an end? If she's done this for AT LEAST eleven years (that's ONE SEVENTH of her life!), why would she stop now?

What would it mean for you to tell her "hey, I've done my part, you didn't do yours, I'm now moving on"?

Why is it more important for you to understand why she is hurting you, than to protect yourself and surround yourself with people who actually care about you?

If she claims she loves you, your definitions of love are not compatible.

In all sane perspectives, you are in an ultimate no-win situation here. You do not deserve to be treated like this.

[babyducks]

If Hope posted that his wife has kept admitting to more and more affairs, wouldn't it help to go through the details and understand why she did this?  Otherwise they might be repeated.

Hi shatra,

the way I see it, the task of understanding why the affairs happened belongs to Hope's wife as it is her behavior.  Hope seems very certain that his wife is working diligently on her issues.

the task of deciding to live with the past and accept the risk of the future belongs to Hope.

I view them as two separate things.

ducks

[Ceruleanblue]

[quote BPDw continued with her therapist but I had growing concerns about her progress.  It was this therapist who suggested BPD, which we both agree is the correct diagnosis.  She gave my wife the DBT handbook and although they initially began working through it, they both seemed to lose focus quickly and their sessions, which she shared with me, started to feel more like one sided couples counseling, with BPDw discussing my behaviors and reactions, and the therapist labeling me controlling, even though this therapist never met me.  We got to a point where we thought we would give couples therapy another shot because we were still spinning in circles over my need to know more and more about the whys of the affairs, and the idea of validation was just not sitting well with me.

][/quote]
Wow, I'd never seen anyone else relate this before, but I feel this is EXACTLY what is happening in BPDh's DBT therapy. He's shared enough with me, that I know a lot of focus seems to be on ME, and labeling ME, and like you, that feels like one sided couples therapy(not to mention, BPDh lies, which this therapist seems not to be taking into account), and I feel it's him trying to deflect from things he is doing, and should be working on(ie: HIS reactions, and actions... .essentially the BPD). I don't get a sense he's doing much of the DBT anymore, which I know they started out doing, and his progress has really stalled.

I'm glad you found a group of therapists that work with BPD, and that things are progressing for you now. I don't want BPDh to stop doing DBT therapy, but I sure wish the focus would stop being about ME, and get back to his BPD, and HIS behaviors/how he deals with things. I don't even think there are any other DBT therapists in our area. Are you in a bigger city? My fear is if he stops going, he'll never go back.

It was nice to hear that someone else has experienced the stall in progress, and the focus shifting during DBT. Not sure what I can do about it, and BPDh seems to enjoy having derailed his therapist. I'm just so upset that someone who should be versed in BPD tactics, is letting him do that, and not redirecting the focus back onto DBT.

[shatra]

babyducks wrote--

the way I see it, the task of understanding why the affairs happened belongs to Hope's wife as it is her behavior.  Hope seems very certain that his wife is working diligently on her issues.

the task of deciding to live with the past and accept the risk of the future belongs to Hope.

I view them as two separate things.

-----Hope's wife can work on understanding why she had the affairs.  I believe that if Hope can also process this and he can understand the "why" of her cheating, that it can help him as well, whether he decides to accept it and continue with her or not.  His undestanding the "why" can help him accept it better, help him eventually forgive if he chooses to, and can help him know what triggers to look out for if he stays with her

[thisagain]

Wow, I'd never seen anyone else relate this before, but I feel this is EXACTLY what is happening in BPDh's DBT therapy. He's shared enough with me, that I know a lot of focus seems to be on ME, and labeling ME, and like you, that feels like one sided couples therapy(not to mention, BPDh lies, which this therapist seems not to be taking into account), and I feel it's him trying to deflect from things he is doing, and should be working on(ie: HIS reactions, and actions... .essentially the BPD). I don't get a sense he's doing much of the DBT anymore, which I know they started out doing, and his progress has really stalled.

Same here, CB! At the very beginning there were some glimmers of hope, like telling her she needs to stay in the middle of the road instead of seeing everything as black and white (this was not dedicated DBT)... .But then it devolved into labeling me as dismissive and controlling, blaming me for her low self-esteem and suicidality, etc.

My partner is extremely charming, attracts a lot of sympathy, and her victim stories can be quite convincing. Until you've been wrongly painted as the perpetrator. Then you realize that she's probably doing the same thing to everyone else.

[Hope12345]

It is worth remembering that having core values beyond the relationship and the ability to ultimately let go when push comes to shove is critical to be serious about boundaries. Quite a number of relationships on this board have turned around at this exact point in a positive direction.

This is something our therapist stated early on.  I need to set limits/boundaries on specific behaviors (i.e., continued infidelity) and be willing to walk away if they are crossed from here on out.  The therapist reminded me that given the past the odds are not in my favor going forward.  I need to be prepared, mentally and emotionally, to walk away and consider my own quality of life should she cross these core boundaries once set.

-----It's true that BPD traits go against logic and rationality.  But to put the past away on a shelf and look beyond them sounds like opening the door to having them be repeated.  If Hope posted that his wife has kept admitting to more and more affairs, wouldn't it help to go through the details and understand why she did this?  Otherwise they might be repeated.

This has always been my belief and concern.  Trust me, if I was being asked to not explore the why’s and only focus on the future I would leave the relationship now.  No one, BPDw or any of the therapists, is suggesting that.  What I am finding is I am having difficulty accepting her why’s and wanted why’s that fit my understanding.  I wanted her to dig for the logical and rational explanations of her behaviors, and as was stated to me previously, rational thought was on vacation when this was occurring.  Her need for validation went beyond rational thought.  I struggled with this for over a year.  Still do, and to some degree may always will.  What the therapist is saying now is that at some point I need to end the “inquiry” phase and decide to either move on or move forward, but if I am waiting for her to explain her behavior to me from a rational, and logical, perspective, then we are going to remain stuck.  Like Babyducks stated, the why’s are on her.  Accepting them is on me, and my logical fact driven personality is not serving me well here.

Wow, I'd never seen anyone else relate this before, but I feel this is EXACTLY what is happening in BPDh's DBT therapy. He's shared enough with me, that I know a lot of focus seems to be on ME, and labeling ME, and like you, that feels like one sided couples therapy(not to mention, BPDh lies, which this therapist seems not to be taking into account), and I feel it's him trying to deflect from things he is doing, and should be working on(ie: HIS reactions, and actions... .essentially the BPD). I don't get a sense he's doing much of the DBT anymore, which I know they started out doing, and his progress has really stalled.

I'm glad you found a group of therapists that work with BPD, and that things are progressing for you now. I don't want BPDh to stop doing DBT therapy, but I sure wish the focus would stop being about ME, and get back to his BPD, and HIS behaviors/how he deals with things. I don't even think there are any other DBT therapists in our area. Are you in a bigger city? My fear is if he stops going, he'll never go back.

It was nice to hear that someone else has experienced the stall in progress, and the focus shifting during DBT. Not sure what I can do about it, and BPDh seems to enjoy having derailed his therapist. I'm just so upset that someone who should be versed in BPD tactics, is letting him do that, and not redirecting the focus back onto DBT.

My issue with IC is the patient can only work on what they are willing to share with the therapist.  The reason I sought out the counseling dynamic we have now, which we have to drive some distance for every week, is because it puts me in front of her therapist occasionally, allowing her to get my perspective, and allowing me to get hers.  It also allows her therapist and our couples therapist to work together.  In the past, she manipulated the hell out of her therapist, minimizing her behaviors and blaming my control issues on the problems in the marriage, which she then used to justify her cheating.  She is now willing to admit to her issues and sees what her disorder did to our marriage.  That said, she is not “cured”.  There is still minimization, distorted thinking, manipulation, etc.  It has become more suttle with her increased awareness, but still there.

Sometimes I need to remind myself, maybe we all do at times, that I cannot dictate her therapy or make her work on what she is not ready or willing to do so.  All I can do is work on me, my boundaries and expectations, and if necessary, walk away from this if I don’t feel she is addressing the issues which put us here in the first place.  One therapist I worked briefly with reminded me that the therapist cannot be as confrontational with patients, especially BPD patients, as nons would like them to be.  If they called them out on their manipulating behavior and distorted thinking the way some of us would like them to sometimes, the patient would never come back.  Sometimes that means spending a lot of sessions just letting them vent and building a trusting relationship.  Validating their feelings even if it sounds to us like they are buying into their distortions, and letting them blame others.  It can be hard to accept for us sometimes, I know.  It can also be hard to accept the therapist might be right.  During their first session together, she told me her therapist felt my behavior towards her was setting her up for failure.  I immediately got defensive because I was hearing the therapist treat her as the victim and the problem was with me.  After discussing it more, I realized what she meant.  She meant that no matter how much therapy BPDw committed to, if I continued to create an invalidating environment at home because I was stuck on my why’s and kept us reliving the past, pointing out how much she hurt me, her mental health would never improve, and possibly get worse.

Also keep in mind, when the BPD spouse is sharing their session, we are only getting their views……views which have a history of being distorted.

[babyducks]

Hi Hope,

What struck me in your post was this

  What I am finding is I am having difficulty accepting her why’s and wanted why’s that fit my understanding.  I wanted her to dig for the logical and rational explanations of her behaviors, and as was stated to me previously, rational thought was on vacation when this was occurring.  Her need for validation went beyond rational thought. 

I can logically understand that my partner soothes herself from external sources as she lacks the mechanism to do it internally.  I can understand that touch is the mechanism that my partner uses to soothe herself.   I can understand that being connected to a person is how my partner feels connected to the world as a whole.   I can see the logic in all of that.  I can even see examples of all of that.   If my partner is upset she will sit closer to me, and be sure to be in physical contact.   I get that.    I do not understand how that feels or how that works inside of her.  I think what I have is the difference between understanding and knowing.   

I understood that pneumonia causes respiratory distress.  I didn't know a thing about pneumonia until after I had it.    To some degree while I can understand how my partner feels about certain things I will never really know because I am not wired that way.

I think it's a great insight that you can say her need for validation went beyond rational thought.  That might be as much of an explanation as she is capable of right now.   Keeping the spotlight turned onto the infidelity might be hindering progress because new ideas and thoughts can't be injected into the conversation.   At some point, the open inquiry phase has to end because it is keeping the wounds open.   

from what you describe you wife has made a tremendous amount of brave progress.  she has courageously faced her demons to the best of her ability.   

what it sounds like to me is you have the opportunity to do the same.  whether your demon is moving on or moving forward, I think the time has come to spit in it's eye.

'ducks