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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: So disappointed, even though I know better  (Read 392 times)
refusetosuccumb
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« on: July 23, 2014, 11:34:27 AM »

Seperated 3 months now, 2 kids together (they are 10 and 7).

My ex has his own apartment, I have the kids almost 100% of the time.  The last 3 weeks he's been taking the kiddos 2 days during the week to cut down on me having to pay for a sitter (I work full time).  The kids have had a good time and enjoy spending time with their dad.  Damn me for getting hopeful about his abilities to be a grown up.

My ex has a big heart, but for the wrong people.  He identifies with others that have struggles (should be mentioned that the struggles tend to be selfimposed such as drugs and alcohol).  I don't know if it's because he thinks that's the best he can get, but it's been a problem for us since having kids.  The people he chooses to hang out with are people I wouldn't let take care of a house plant.  I never allowed his friends over because I just didn't trust them.  The very few times I let a friend of his stay with us, it never ended well.  That happened twice in 16yrs and I vowed never again).

When my ex was homeless 3 months ago (refused to look for his own place when I told him the kids and I were moving out), one of these friends let him sleep on their couch for a bit.  This friend unexpectedly became homeless this week and my ex offered to let him stay with him (my ex has a 2 bedroom apartment, kids don't stay over night).  Kids were there Monday, this friend moved in Monday after I picked them up (I was only aware of this situation just now).  Apparently friend also came in tow with his girlfriend.  I had to have my ex sign some paperwork today so I met him in the parkinglot of his apartment.  My ex looked like a wreck, very dishevelled.  He says hi and starts crying.  Very awkward.  My first instinct is to hug him but I can't do that because of my boundaries and every nice thing I do becomes misconstrued as giving him hope we will reconcile.  So I ask what's wrong.  Apparently this friend and his girlfriend have taken over the apartment and have their own friends over constantly.  My ex wants them gone but doesn't want this friend mad at him.  So I had to make the situation worse by telling him that if these friends of his are there, the kids can't stay with him during the day tomorrow (my sitter has an appointment, so now I'm not sure what to do as I have to work, grrrr). 

My ex also has a psych appointment shortly, I am kind of glad about this because the psych will see something is wrong and maybe my ex will open up to him. 

Once again, my ex's poor decisions are affecting me and the kiddos.  Dammit, why did I let myself become hopeful that he's making progress?  On one hand, I feel bad for him because he appears to have been blindsided by this friend.  But on the other hand, I've always told him I don't like this particular guy (he reminds me of Eddie Haskell from Leave it to Beaver - too sweet and slick so you know he's just rotten underneath).  So it IS my ex's own fault for allowing this to happen.

Now I'm pissed and spending too much time thinking about him and his situation.  My life with the kids is so very peaceful, non dramatic and quiet.  The kids really want to see him tomorrow, but I'm on the fence right now.  My ex said that he already told this friend that he needs to leave for the day because of the kids.  The kids are old enough to tell me if this happens or not. 

I called my lawyer and was told that it's up to my own discretion about visitation but that if I don't feel the kids are in danger I should let them visit.  But how can I surmize that?  I don't feel they are in danger but I'm also not comfortable letting them go.  I was on the fence one day last week and let them go and they had a great time.  Sometimes I'm not sure WHAT my gut is telling me.

Suggestions?  Thoughts? Experiences?  I'm kind of at a loss right now and I need to get my head back into work so I need this off my chest.  Dammit!
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MommaBear
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Relationship status: Divorce in progress
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2014, 11:50:24 AM »

Well, first off, if "friends of friends" are staying over (with a history of substance abuse issues), and you don't know who they are, that, to me, is reason enough not to let your kids stay there. "Unknowns" are - to me, anyway - sufficient cause to be concerned about possible danger.

Sometimes I long for the days when my ex was begging and pleading for me back. Dr. Jekyll was so much easier to deal with than Mr. Hyde.

Keep those boundaries strong. Maybe keeping the kids from him, and the appointment with the T will light a fire under him enough to have to take control of his home? Let's hope!
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Matt
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2014, 12:56:35 PM »

A few thoughts for whatever they're worth... .

First, my adult son is a recovering addict - alcohol and other stuff - and went through rehab twice, six months each, which taught him a lot and me a lot too.  One of the things I learned is that addiction screws up everybody's boundaries - the addict's, and his family's and friends', and in this case the addict's friend's ex (you).  (I'm not making a distinction here between addiction and substane abuse - doesn't really matter in this case.)

The thing to do is to make your best judgment, because you are responsible for the kids, and because you are the person whose judgment is best.  If Ex's friend says, "I'm all better now!", even if he seems to mean it, it means nothing, and from what you have said, if your ex says, "My friend is all better now!", that probably means nothing too, because your ex has such poor judgment (and maybe some codependency or other stuff too).  So you have to talk it through with people whose judgment you value - including your friends here! - and decide what you truly believe is right, and then stick to that - don't argue about it with your ex or anybody else.

Your ex has made the choice to put those people ahead of his kids, and that choice has consequences for him, and unfortunately for the kids and for you too.

When this immediate crisis has passed - when they have moved out of Ex's place - it may be good to agree to some structure.  Your ex may not be very good at structure, but you can put something on the table which you believe is sensible, and if he agrees to it, great, but let him know that if he doesn't do his part he won't see the kids.

For example, you could say, "It would work for me if you could watch the kids every morning from Monday through Friday.  I'll drop them off at 8:00 and have the sitter pick them up at noon.  Just you and the kids - no other adults.  We can adjust the schedule from time to time if needed but if you can commit to that you can see them those days and I'm sure they'll like that too."  Or some other schedule that makes sense for you both - however much time with him you think is wise.

He may think he wants time with the kids, or he may think that is the "right" thing for him to say, but deep down it is possible - many of us here have found - that someone with BPD doesn't really do well having the kids too much.  My ex did great with the kids when they were little, and she does pretty well with girls as they grow up, but she has become very distant, and worse, with both boys as they got to 10 or so and developed their own ornery personalities.  Your ex might be different - maybe he'll struggle while the kids are small and do better when they are older, for example - but it seems pretty common that someone with BPD doesn't really enjoy having the kids a lot.  He might find a lot of excuses, over time, to have less time with them - my ex wanted 50/50 but over time it's morphed to much more time with me, mostly by her choice.

If that's how it works out for you, that will make it harder because of your work schedule, but for the kids' sake it's probably best to accept whatever works out well and not push for more Dad time than Dad is comfortable with.  Maybe even start out with just one morning a week and see how that goes, and let him know that if he wants two you're open to that - build up from less to more depending how things go.

Above all, focus on observing how he is, and not on pretending you can expect something different.

And trust your gut when it comes to substance abusers.  I love my son very much, and he's now been clean and sober for more than 5 years, so it can be done.  But someone who hasn't been clean for at least a year is a very bad bet, and there will be a lot of chaos around that person - not a good person for young kids to be around... .
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refusetosuccumb
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2014, 01:28:52 PM »

Thank you both so much for responding so quickly.  I appreciate your points of view, and more importantly, that you've reinforced to me that I need to go with my gut and look at his actions, NOT what he says are his intentions.

I think I'm most comfortable having them not visit him tomorrow and sticking to them seeing him on Monday.  My ex does not do well under stress and the way he looked today is that I don't think he's slept since Monday.  I don't doubt that his intentions are to have his kids, but I do doubt that he's able to enforce these boundaries with his friends and that we will all be stressed about it tomorrow.

I've created a network of people I can ask to watch the kids for me and will try to swing working from home as well.  Luckily my manager is well aware of my ex and she knows that I'm doing the best that I can and still keeping up with work. 

OK, my decision is to let my ex off the hook tomorrow and have him take the kids Monday, possibly, depending on what he works out with his friend.

Thank you so much.  I'm so thankful I've found this site. 
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momtara
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2014, 04:39:17 PM »

As people on this board have told me:  Your decision is probably being affected by feeling guilty or bad for him.  If you just think of the kids, you'll have your answer.  What that answer is, I don't know.  Sounds like they may not be in danger, so you have to figure out if you feel comfortable with them over there.  If you don't, then don't do it.  I know you hate being the bad guy.  I know your ex is going through a rough time.  If he does stay in therapy, maybe he will do better.  I have thought this a bunch of times and my ex is higher functioning than most.  He was in therapy and doing better, but he gets triggered by things and regresses, and now I found out he's off his meds and have to spend thousands to file an order to get him to comply or he can't see the kids.

I do want to believe in hope.  Your ex sounds like he has a sweet side, but definitely problems.  Therapy is certainly a good thing.

(I think I mentioned, I also have that boundaries problem with the hugs and stuff.  I let it go and it made things worse.)
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refusetosuccumb
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2014, 05:03:51 PM »

I cancelled the visit tomorrow.  I asked myself what I feel worse doing - putting my kids in harms way or making my ex mad/sad/whatever.  I'd feel like a bad mom if I sent them over into the chaos.  My ex has a choice - ask his friend to leave, thereby creating a calm atmosphere where he can relax with his kids, or let his friend stay and not see his kids the way he wants to.  We all have choices, right?

I've been doing nothing but thinking of this situation since it happened earlier today.  That isn't healthy.  In all my other relationships in life, I make a decision and stick to it.  I don't generally give it another thought.  But with my ex, I ruminate about it for hours and hours.

I make a lot of sacrifices to make sure my kids know they are taken care of and safe.  My ex only has to have 2 clear times during the week to worry about the kids.  We actually worked up to that from two supper times a week.  I do think my ex offered to still take them out of Obligation.  I know he loves them but he can't deal with his life right now and the kids don't deserve to be caught in the chaos.

I texted him a few hours and haven't heard back.  I've found arrangements for the kiddos.  I'm currently waiting to see what kind of response I'll get from my ex.  I hate this feeling.  But I'd rather go through with this than the alternative, where something happens to the kids and I never forgive myself.

Thanks.
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Matt
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2014, 05:08:34 PM »

I think this is typical of those of us who have been in relationships with someone who has BPD:  we get all confused and spend a bunch of energy trying to figure out how to make things normal.

I think you are focusing more on the kids, which is the right thing to do.  Over time it will get easier, and there will be less chaos in your life.

If you set some boundaries, or make some agreements that should work well for everyone, and he can't handle that, then you will have to take more steps back and make the relationship more arms-length.  For most of us, that's what works, and the more we focus on the kids, and the less we think about the person with BPD, the better things get.
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refusetosuccumb
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2014, 05:15:58 PM »

Matt, you are so right.  I really do feel confused on how to "make this right or normal" when in reality, this is not even my situation to control.  I have to let go of being able to control anything when it comes to him.  How can one be rational in an irrational situation?

I generally have plan A, B, C, D and E when it comes to the kids.  I never could plan anything with my ex.


I'm just trying to enjoy the peace right now. Right this moment, my daughter is outside playing with her friends, my son is playing online with his school friends (out for summer break) and I'm sitting down.  When I was still with my ex, anytime I was sitting down enjoying my time my ex would automatically accuse me avoiding him.  He's not even here and I have to force myself to sit down in the quiet and not worry about feeling the need to be doing something.

Mindf**k at it's finest.  My life feels like a series of "waiting for the other shoe to drop" events.  I hope this feeling goes away eventually.

Kids and I are heading out of town to spend the weekend with my family.  I need my mommy and my sister.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Matt
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2014, 05:23:07 PM »

You've mentioned two psychological disorders - your ex's BPD, and his friends' substance abuse - which both create chaos for others around them.

Both those disorders are treatable, but only when the person decides to get help, and from what you've said, I don't think your ex or his friends have decided that.

Chaos makes us confused.  We try to see patterns and order, because that's how it is with other people, but that just makes us more confused, because someone with BPD or someone who is abusing drugs - their minds don't work like ours do.

Boundaries, distance, and structure.
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refusetosuccumb
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2014, 07:04:32 PM »

Knock me over with a feather.

He texted back "I understand.  Tell the kids I love them and will see them Monday.  I'm kicking him out"

No follow up call.  No pleading for me to "understand him"  Just a rational answer to a rational decision.

I'm just relieved no drama.
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Matt
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2014, 07:15:26 PM »

Knock me over with a feather.

He texted back "I understand.  Tell the kids I love them and will see them Monday.  I'm kicking him out"

No follow up call.  No pleading for me to "understand him"  Just a rational answer to a rational decision.

I'm just relieved no drama.

Well that's great, but don't assume anything.

Don't assume he will actually kick the guy out.  Don't assume he won't plead for you to understand him in a day or two.  Don't assume there won't be more drama.  Don't assume he will be ready for the kids Monday.

But by setting and maintaining a boundary you are at least establishing that you won't be dealing with all that - if he follow through he can see the kids and if not then not - his choice.
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refusetosuccumb
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2014, 08:05:11 PM »

I fully expect that Monday will not happen and have already booked the sitter for all next week.
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