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Author Topic: Should I talk to SD10 about this?  (Read 724 times)
ennie
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2014, 03:36:59 PM »

So there is this powerful feeling of wanting SS to see this about his mom, realize she is not a good person, etc.  I get irritated when I hear him defend her to SO.  I know these are terrible thoughts I have.  I recognize that, and am capable of controlling what I say to SS.  But I want to not feel like this, I know it is not healthy.

I just want you to know that I do not think your thoughts are terrible, and I think it is important if you are going to develop compassion for her that you develop that for you as well... .from my perspective, compassion comes from a place of seeing the "why" of even the most challenging behavior, rather than blaming or putting it down.  To do this for others, I think we need to do this for ourselves.

Your thoughts are not terrible, they are understandable and loving.  We all want to teach kids our version of reality, and it is important for kids that there are lots of adult out there who want to convey their morals and ethics, so they have a range of info to choose from. You want your SS to understand some of the hard things about his mom--and he will, one day.  That is a really important part of growing up, to develop an understanding of our folks as whole and complex people including their challenging aspects.  Your desire is not bad.  Just not really possible for a child at that age.

And BPD mom is not terrible.  While the "why" of it for her is not childhood abuse (as far as you know), the impaired cognitive functioning of BPD that makes things black and white is still no fun.  There are great youtube videos about what it feels like to have BPD from a subjective perspective, and it sounds like anxiety, desperation, hopelessness, emptiness, and fear all wrapped up in one.  Whatever the cause of that, I am really grateful not to have those feelings hardly at all in my life--knowing BPDmom really has been the first sustained period of all of these things coming together, and I have really not enjoyed it.  Imaging feeling that way your whole life!

I think the lack of empathy in me comes from feeling terribly powerless.  When you stop feeling like you are bad for not being able to "control" your feelings in response to a distressing situation, you get to understand more about where you have power and where you do not.  For me, that has led to me feeling more and more capable to pursue what is important to me, where I have power, and letting go of the places I have no power.  But it is surprising how much influence we really do have, particularly when I am not so worried about controlling myself or wishing things or me were different.
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Matt
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2014, 03:45:29 PM »

It does make it easier to have empathy for someone who has treated you badly, if you know of things that weren't her fault - like childhood emotional trauma - which probably contributed to her behavior.  That's my experience - my BPD ex's mom died when she was a baby, so she doesn't remember her, and her father drank a lot and wasn't a good parent, so my ex was sent to live with relatives in a different state - and she was never told why her mother died or why her father sent her away.  A huge feeling of abandonment, I imagine, which is often linked with BPD later in life.

I think if someone has BPD, it's very likely she had some emotional trauma in childhood, even if you don't know about it, or maybe even if she doesn't remember it herself.  And it's certain that nobody woke up one morning, and said to herself, "I think I'll have BPD from now on!".  It's a disorder that nobody chooses.

And yes, understanding that helps, but it doesn't mean you should be a doormat and accept bad behavior.  Taking care of yourself first is the right thing to do... .
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thinkingtooslowly

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« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2014, 08:26:10 PM »

Your thoughts are not terrible, they are understandable and loving.  We all want to teach kids our version of reality, and it is important for kids that there are lots of adult out there who want to convey their morals and ethics, so they have a range of info to choose from. You want your SS to understand some of the hard things about his mom--and he will, one day.  That is a really important part of growing up, to develop an understanding of our folks as whole and complex people including their challenging aspects.  Your desire is not bad.  Just not really possible for a child at that age.


This is very true.  I am going to keep that in mind.

I think the lack of empathy in me comes from feeling terribly powerless.  When you stop feeling like you are bad for not being able to "control" your feelings in response to a distressing situation, you get to understand more about where you have power and where you do not. 

I never thought about it this way, but you are right.  I think my hate comes from my feeling of powerlessness about this situation.  Overall I have lots of power over other things in my life though, and really, things for me are pretty dang terrific, and her not so much... .having her life would be awful... .my mom reminds me of that fact as well... .as much as her behavior is so toxic, and I detest that, being her would be a nightmare... .

And yes, understanding that helps, but it doesn't mean you should be a doormat and accept bad behavior.  Taking care of yourself first is the right thing to do... .

You are totally right.  I also need to remind my self that SO is actually quite good about setting strict boundaries with her,  I don't have much to do with her at all, it certainly could be worse.

Thanks for the thoughts and insights!

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ennie
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« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2014, 11:13:31 AM »

myself so this is a good reminder for me as well and a nice way to approach things with the kids.

I think what we all want to do is have the best relationship we can with the kids without creating additional problems/drama for them with their moms.   

I just want to say that my goal is to support myself and the girls and my DH in being most authentically ourselves, and learning tools to be the persons we are in relation to others in a way that feels good.  I think if I have success in this, it WILL result in more conflict with mom at some point, because BPDmom often wants things from the kids that do not feel good to the kids, are not consistent with their needs, and that do not solve BPDmom's problems in the way she hopes. 


I hope that the tools we are learning together will allow the girls to do the separating and articulation from mom they need to do in a way that makes it as easy as possible, but I also hope that my support of them when they are angry at me leads to them one day being willing to feel angry at their mom. 

In other words, some problems are good problems.  I do not wish to make the kids' lives easier.  I wish to make their lives more happy, better, more meaningful.  And sometimes, easier!  It is like if you do not do dishes after dinner... .it is easier at first, but in about a week when there are no dishes, a horrible stinky mess... .then it is NOT easier.  Doing your work along the way is a good practice, whether housework or emotional work!
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Matt
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« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2014, 11:17:58 AM »

myself so this is a good reminder for me as well and a nice way to approach things with the kids.

I think what we all want to do is have the best relationship we can with the kids without creating additional problems/drama for them with their moms.   

I just want to say that my goal is to support myself and the girls and my DH in being most authentically ourselves, and learning tools to be the persons we are in relation to others in a way that feels good.  I think if I have success in this, it WILL result in more conflict with mom at some point, because BPDmom often wants things from the kids that do not feel good to the kids, are not consistent with their needs, and that do not solve BPDmom's problems in the way she hopes. 

I hope that the tools we are learning together will allow the girls to do the separating and articulation from mom they need to do in a way that makes it as easy as possible, but I also hope that my support of them when they are angry at me leads to them one day being willing to feel angry at their mom. 

In other words, some problems are good problems.  I do not wish to make the kids' lives easier.  I wish to make their lives more happy, better, more meaningful.  And sometimes, easier!  It is like if you do not do dishes after dinner... .it is easier at first, but in about a week when there are no dishes, a horrible stinky mess... .then it is NOT easier.  Doing your work along the way is a good practice, whether housework or emotional work!

Yeah - good thought - kind of a "hygiene" thing... .

I've found that when I make a change that is intended to move things forward - like, for example, when I quit talking to my ex on the phone and went to almost all e-mail - there is a short uncomfortable period while she expresses some unpleasant emotions - maybe some blaming and accusations - usually a few weeks or maybe months.  Then there is a long period - still going on - with much less drama.

So on balance it's a very good deal - some bad stuff for a short time and then it's better for the future.

I think this is the same - you figure out what will work best for you, your husband and the kids, and make that change, and know that there might be some unpleasantness for a short time - and maybe discuss that openly among yourselves and support each other through it.  Then things will be better and the kids will have learned something.
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ennie
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« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2014, 11:27:53 AM »

As I read Matt's response and wrote the dishes analogy, I realize it also maps well onto my tendency to use as a rubric whether something feels good to me and to the kids.  Before doing the dishes, it does not seem like it is going to feel good... .but during and after, it is actually just fine.  But NOT doing the dishes and seeing them there is often really overwhelming and does not feel good. 

I think we have this idea that avoiding things "feels good" and that if we trust ourselves more and do what feels good we will never do the dishes... .but the truth of the matter is what does not feel good is the undone dishes... .

which as far as emotions goes means to me that avoiding any discussion of the hard parts about mom does not really feel good but creates fear that mom is bad... .whereas occasionally addressing an issue head on--"How did it feel to hear your mom yelling at me?"  can be good.  When SD14 was 8, I remember her mom raging at her for loving me, but she still loved me.  I asked her, "How is it for you to love me and have your mom be made about that?  I imagine it must be really hard.  Is it worth it?"  She said, "I can't help it, I just love you.  And it is really hard when my mommy is mad."  Just having compassion can be a real gift. 

Both girls have been through times where it is almost impossible to say something like that without a huge amount of drama.  but I think I have picked my moments, as has DH, and that in the long run it is hugely helpful to hear another adult acknowledge that it is hard without insisting that they do it different.  and to see their greatness in being able to love mommy even when it is hard, and still love us.  How much of a big heart they must have to do that.  Not just communicating that they should not have to work so hard, but supporting their beautiful capacity, even if it is just because they cannot help it.
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