What do you crave as a nonBPD?

[Samuel S.]

What do you crave as a nonBPD? Obviously, we all have needs and wants, some of which our BPDs are capable of giving, but also there may be many of these needs and wants that are unfulfilled due to their inability for whatever reasons.

I crave companionship, kindness, love, sincerity, and respect. All of these things are a part of my nature, and they are done so unconditionally. I see each person as a world within himself or herself who deserves these things. I have done so personally and professionally with no artificiality and without any ulterior intentions whatsoever.

Due to my BPDw's inability to share these like qualities, I could easily venture forth into infidelity, but that would only result in more problems. So, when I interact with individuals who value these human and humane aspects of life that connect all of us, I almost begin to cry, because they validate the importance of being on this Earth for one another, and my BPDw is unable at this point in time due to her issues and wanting to be alone.

Sure, we can all read the lessons here, practice them with our BPDs in order to hopefully restore some sense of humanity in their and our personal lives. Yet, the process or should I say the long process to do this can be very tiring with many ups and downs.

So, I repeat. What do you crave as a nonBPD? In turn, how do you fulfill these cravings?

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[Samuel S.]

I guess I can also include being read. You see, I have written and published 4 books and a 5th one that is being considered now. Incidentally, my BPDw was asked today by a fellow employee about my books. My BPDw laughingly replied to that person and to me that she hasn't read a single one of them. BTW, I started writing and publishing 4 years ago.

[guliers]

sincere and genuine care/support from another person. respect for my boundaries, and unconditional love.

[takingandsending]

Hi Samuel S. That question is one that I have been working on in the SWOE workbook for almost a month. The exercise is, "Pretend that your BP/non-BP relationship doesn't exist and some God or spiritual being has given you the opportunity to design your own SO. What are the ideal qualities you would like in a person fulfilling that role?" This exercise has allowed a deep lake of grief to swell within me. It's a long list ... .up to 49 qualities and I keep putting it down and picking it up again. Funny you mention being read. I am a writer, too, and casual singer/musician. She rarely reads my writing, and is sort of like "hmmm" when she does. She's threatened when I sing or play music because she feels like I stop seeing her. I knew those things were off when they happened early in our relationship. I just didn't listen to the warning bells. Why would anyone ever not want to enjoy singing along to music? - I was even singing in tune. 

I guess mostly, I would really just like to be allowed to exist happily and have someone rejoice in that happiness instead of tearing it down. Of all the harms, that one is the hardest one to let go of. Not just the lack of being rejoiced in, but the enmity and malice directed towards my happiness, my S9's happiness. I will never emotionally understand that, even if logically I can understand it within the context of BPD.

[empathic]

I miss respect and trust the most I think. She said herself during our last talk that she does not trust me. Kindness is high on my list as well. I wouldn't say today that she is kind, I would have said it early in our relationship.

[flowerpath]

Peace.  Order.  Wisdom. 

I am working on this by being mindful (paying attention to what is really going on here and watching out for myself and my sons), guarding my thoughts and immediately replacing negative ones with some kind of solution for the better, noticing whether things are in or out of order and doing something it about however I can,  reading some verses in Proverbs every day, and thinking like a CEO instead of like a slave to someone else's emotions. 

[thicker skin]

Trust, acceptance, companionship, understanding.

Lack of those ingredients mean I'm single in a rubbish relationship... .Getting hungrier as time passes, but growing as a person and detaching from the push pull.

[letmeout]

Its funny that you mention your BPD partner doesn't acknowledge your interests. 

It is jealousy. Mine was so jealous of my paintings that he would pour things on them (usually beer) "accidentally" of course. Same thing with favorite clothing; gee, how did those big bleach spots get on that? "accidentally" of course.

I accidentally divorced him, of course.

[maxsterling]

Peace and quiet.  When she screams, she SCREAMS, and I still have ringing in my ears a few days later.  But even when she is not screaming, she can't go 15 minutes without calling to me from across the house.  No reason, just to see if I am still there. 

I "cope" with this by making the most of my time when she isn't around.  Go for walks by myself, find a quiet corner of my building to sit at work, and getting up before her in the morning.  It doesn't quite give me what I need, but I did come from a place of living alone for most of my adult life, and peace and quiet I took for granted. 

Also, I crave having relaxed, natural conversations and not having to double-think my words.  Doesn't matter what we talk about, but I would like to just be able to have a conversation about anything where we trust that we love each other and respect each other.  The kind of conversations I have had with my friends for years.  With BPD fiancé, it sometimes happens like this, but if she is in an "irritable" mood (that's 80% of the time) it doesn't matter if we talk about art or music or the weather, she will always have some kind of negative remark.  I can bring up how something a family member did that bothered me, and she can't just listen, she has to have in her judgment about that person or my reaction to that person. 

I "cope" with this issue by trying to strengthen my friendships and family relationships, and get those needs met elsewhere.

[byfaith]

ditto on thicker skin... .Trust, acceptance, companionship, understanding.

ditto on Maxsterling's post

[byfaith]

I would love a relationship with my grown kids without the mental agony I endure from my wife

[bobcat2014]

Double thinking before I say anything. My estranged family she hates. Serving God as my heart sees fit, not a religous nazi.

[flowerpath]

Ditto on maxsterling's post too.  I crave a life in which no one screams – or curses - at me.   

[waverider]

I missed shared responsibility and effort, and being part of a team, rather than just being the support person. It makes it harder to maintain motivation.

[george2]

What a good question... .I miss being able to talk with someone openly and honestly, and reveal my weaknesses, troubles, desires, etc., without the fear of retribution.  I miss compliments and tenderness to me absent a motive.  I miss living with my guard down.  I crave a relationship that is more consistent, that doesn't threaten me or set me up with loaded questions.  I am weary of being the caregiver and continually filling a pitcher that has a hole in it, while I am parched for even a sip.  I crave "adult" conversation, honest discussion, and exchange, and someone to initiate tenderness.  I crave someone that appreciates my parents and all they have done, and who doesn't spew filth about these sweet people (and me of course)... .

[itgirl]

I missed shared responsibility and effort, and being part of a team, rather than just being the support person. It makes it harder to maintain motivation.

This!  I have to be the everything.  Emotional ROCK! Provider, housekeeper, chef, dog walker and to top it all she told me a couple of days ago that because I'm older I must take care of her.  I am 36 and she is 34 

No team here.

[takingandsending]

I am weary of being the caregiver and continually filling a pitcher that has a hole in it, while I am parched for even a sip.

Sometimes, when I read these posts, read what I have written about the qualities I desire in my RS, it is such unspoken, buried longing within so many of us. It's like george2 says, that feeling of thirsting for even a drop. It seems a dangerous way to exist. I mean it's important to not skirt the feelings that are there. But maybe we could ask what can I give to myself today? I just keep feeling that the more I can give to myself, when that thirst lessens, I won't be in so much pain for what I don't receive from my spouse.

I think everything posted on this thread is me. I appreciate the honesty and courage you all have to be here and speak my/your story so eloquently. Today, I am going to appreciate myself for having the courage to be here, too, to not be afraid to look, and somewhere, to know that I have all that I need.  

[Samuel S.]

All of our responses are so heartfelt and so needed. All of us truly have tried our best to fill our own cravings on account of not being able to have those qualities that I presume that we all had with our BPDs at first. Yes, they probably were able to fill our cravings at first, but now, their true colors are being shown, and we non BPDs need to step up to the plate to take care of our own cravings on the outside of our relationships. Like one of you said, "I am weary of being the caregiver and continually filling a pitcher that has a hole in it, while I am parched for even a sip". Indeed, it is a sad realization in which we do our best to make the best of it usually without our BPDs.

In my particular situation, just last night, my BPDw came back from work about 9 PM. The first thing she asked was if I were going to go to bed without even looking at me. I said no. Before she took her shower, she asked me the same thing, and I gave her the same reply. Her D17 came back from a coastal trip yesterday afternoon. I asked her if she had a good time. She said yes while never looking at me. In fact, her back was turned to me, and she never looked at me for the rest of the evening. Yet, when she talked to her mother, she was supposedly all happy and so expressive. Like mother, like daughter!

Frankly, I wonder if our BPDs are really happy! Under our circumstances, it is no wonder we do our best to find the happiness we seek from outside due to not being able to have our cravings, our happiness, filled inside our own homes. 

[maxsterling]

Well, my year and a half experience with my dBPD fiancé suggests she doesn't know what happiness is or feels like, and never has.  I get the feeling that there are always negative thoughts in her mind, always has a "the world is out to get me" attitude, and is always searching for ulterior motives.  Happiness is a relative emotion for her.  I don't think there are ever moments where she is just out in nature appreciating the beauty.  She never has a moment of being with someone she cares about and just feels happy to be in that person's presence.  She never thinks back to a childhood memory and smiles. Maybe she has short moments of happiness every now and then, but I think much of her life she isn't happy to be alive.  And she pretty much vocalizes this. What a sad way to live. 

But she's also a pwBPD who pretty clearly meets 9/9 criteria, has also been diagnosed PTSD, and could probably also be diagnosed with severe chronic depression.   My dBPD SIL seems to have a much milder case of BPD, and I have actually seen her happy many times. 

Perhaps we should start another thread about what cravings are met being with a BPD partner.  It would be a much harder list, but inevitably we all have cravings that *are* being met.

[wilsonian]

The word NORMAL comes to mind... .its sad... I know normal in a relationship... .and miss it... .

[Tibbles]

Peace and sharing a positive out look on life. Life with SO is all about negativity and how the whole world is a bad place.

[ortac77]

I miss Interdependence, the ability to share life with another on equal terms, to love and be loved without preconditions.

I used to want to be the strong provider, to be in control and as a I get older I have realised how much I have missed by taking on this role.

It is never too late and by practising my awareness and acceptance maybe I might just make my latter years the best of my life

[Wrongturn1]

Good topic.  The three things I crave most are:

1) For uBPDw to be on my side instead of always looking for/inventing reasons to attack me, to give me the benefit of the doubt the way I do for her;

2) Positivity: for uBPDw to see the glass as half-full instead of empty or broken and unrepairable; and

3) For uBPDw to be a positive influence on our young children instead of a negative one.  I'm concerned that in spite of my best efforts, my wife's behaviors are harming our kids.

I could come up with more, but those are the top 3.

[Sugarlily]

A good and challenging topic. When I am with my bf I sometimes imagine in my head how I would like things to be.

I would like to be able to laugh and joke together, without their being an edge or tension. I would like him to be pleased rather than jealous when things go well for me. I would like to be able to go out and just have fun and not be anxious about how things might go wrong. I would like to know I have his love and kindness. I would like him to be positive and not always critical and looking for fault in everything.

[Samuel S.]

It is amazing how much we all crave the positive aspects of a relationship essentially from our negative BPDs, and they cannot do so due to their own unhappiness!

Seeing that I have loved movies so very much, I am reminded of two movies that deal with the negativity that our BPDs exhibit: "Scrooge" and "What's So Bad About Feeling Good?" Yeah, I know I am dating myself, but "Scrooge" exemplifies the BPD. The only difference is he changes for the better. Even the second movie dealt with very oppressive aspects of life, but even then, people focus on the better things in life.

In both of these movies, the negativity changed to the positive. Of course, these wishes give hope. Our BPDs only continue to express their negativity. It's like they live a never ending story of negativity.

In my own situation, I try to tolerate my BPDw's negativity when she is around, but it sure does wear me down! The only way that I raise myself emotionally is by giving to others, because I believe where there is life, there is hope. I have given free workshops to families, organizations, and schools. I also teach and tutor part-time. I also write books. If I didn't do these things, I wouldn't be posting. I would not be alive.

So, how do you not get yourself involved in their negativity, seeing that they can't or won't change? If you can share this with us, perhaps, you can help all of us. Thank you!

[workinprogress]

I'm new here, and this is only my second post, so I hope you don't mind me replying.

I miss so much in my relationship with my BPD wife.

I find myself craving intimacy.  I miss holding a woman in my bed and having her head on my chest.  My wife liked no touch at all when we shared a bed (it's been about 5 years of me sleeping on the couch).  I remember times that I laid next to her and my body felt like it was exploding from lack of touch.  I would work up the courage to put my hand on her arm and she would become very angry.  In fact, there was a time that she was still angry at me when I got home from work the next night over touching her.

I crave hugging.

I crave love.

I crave hearing from someone that cares about me and asking me how my day is going.

I crave sharing my hopes and dreams with someone.

I crave sharing my burdens with someone.

I crave a break, I want to be carefree, if even for a weekend.  I am just on edge all of the time.

Lastly, I crave a relationship where I am more important than her cell phone.

[workinprogress]

Oh, and I crave laughter.

My wife and I never laugh together.

If I make a joke, she gets angry, I can't figure it out.

I laugh and joke with people all day long.  But, she just gets mad.

I miss just genuine happiness and joy.

[takingandsending]

Samuel S., are you saying if I can just get a few ghosts to visit uBPDw, I have a chance ... .? 

I was struck by your post (well all of these posts) because I, too, feel better no matter what hard situation I find myself in by giving to others. It's kind of a form of escapism from my own mental duress. The Dalai Lama calls it enlightened self interest, and I think there's a lot of truth in that. It doesn't take much to look around you and see someone who is in worse shape than you are, that maybe by giving to them, you can ease their suffering as well as your own a bit. But I think sometimes I use that in an altruistic way to avoid being with my own suffering.

It's a dance. The more I pull away from my unhappiness in my RS, the more my unhappiness chases me down and finds me. Everything changes in every moment, so why do I run from something that I know will change within mere moments?

So, how do you not get yourself involved in their negativity, seeing that they can't or won't change?

I think the answer here is by maintaining infinite receptivity to what is going on within yourself at that moment pwBPD is venting/dysregulating/projecting, staying with the feeling rather than closing it off, and giving love to yourself in compassion for what you experience, and maybe, gradually opening that giving to others like you going through that experience, and eventually giving to those that are triggering that experience. I know from the few times that I have done this, something within me changes. When I fill myself with loving kindness, even during the torrential rainfall of verbal abuse and negativity that can come from my partner, the words pass around me and not through me, and I have a sense of how many people have endured humiliation, shame, manipulation, criticism, being made to feel small, and my heart opens more. Times like those, I can see my wife more clearly, and rather than want to run away from her, or fight back, or just endure her, I actually just love her, in all her suffering and imperfection. That said, it's a type of mindfulness that I can not do that well or that often, but it does help when I make the choice to do it.

I hope this helps. Truly, my heart is being opened by these posts. Thank you and please keep writing. 

[Samuel S.]

Well, I asked my BPDw that seeing she likes to go to different places, if she would like to go to Angel Island in the middle of the San Francisco Bay today. Her response was that she has too much studying to do and that she hasn't had much time to study due to working. First of all, she hasn't been taking classes during the summer. Secondly, even if it is true that she wants to study, she does have tomorrow off and part of Monday off. Thirdly, she has been reviewing all summer long. So, she has had ample time to study. Going out of town for the day to enjoy and to hike in nature would be good for the both of us. Also, some time ago, I mentioned about Muir Woods just north of San Francisco, and she was all excited to go. A couple of weeks later when I suggested about making the time to go, she said no.

Since her response is no now, I am going today. This is my craving being fulfilled! It is so sad that she is this way. She truly is a "bah, humbug" type of person, only too happy to be unhappy. Also, I think she is obsessed with her studies so that she does not have time to have quality time with me or anyone else. BTW, her birthday is this month. Her sister asked about getting together tomorrow due to her birthday and due to the fact her sister said that she misses her sister. Again, my BPDw said no.

So, I don't take my BPDw's negativity personally, but she is losing out. Maybe and only maybe, she doesn't want close ties and times due to having lost her child 15 years ago who was only 7 1/2. That is understandable, but why keep people at a distance who are alive and vibrant, unless she truly wants to be alone most of the time and doesn't want to experience more losses from being close to someone? Well, she is getting her wish, if this is the case. I'm off and going to have a great time in nature and post photos on Facebook with all of my friends and relatives!   

[Samuel S.]

It was such a freeing day just to enjoy nature and to be sore from walking and hiking 5 miles around Angel Island in the middle of the San Francisco Bay. I didn't have to care about anything related to my BPDw. I was able to be myself and to enjoy it all. Also, I posted a lot of photos on Facebook.

When I got back to reality namely with my BPDw, she asked how the day was, which was nice of her, and I appreciated that. Yet, she complained about having to cook most of the day and not having time to do things for herself.