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Author Topic: Extreme ways of adapting - do we all share this?  (Read 968 times)
ziniztar
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« on: July 29, 2014, 04:40:18 AM »

 

A few times now I've read people that were able to positively change their relationship, write the following words: "It was only at the point where I was ready to loose the relationship / file for divorce that things got better."

I'm slowly learning in therapy now that I am what they call someone who adapts to another persons needs in an extremey way. It's why I fell for egocentric guys (probably NPD) in the past. It's why I feel such strong emotions in this current relationship with my dBPDbf. I feel like I have to adapt, or else... .I am left alone, I am left behind, I am abandoned.

In my intake I explained to my T that my dbDPbf's coping behaviour is driving me nuts. He'll selflishly plan his entire week full with activities (to avoid being alone) but cannot tolerate or meet any needs from my end (I'd like to call once a day if we haven't seen each other to check in, it's what I call a relationship). I end up calling him and resenting him for the fact I had to do it. The T mentioned: what happens if you don't call him?

And then it hit me  Idea: if I don't call him, if I don't take (!) the responsibility of being together... I fear that he will forget about me, and I will never see him again. I'm quite certain he won't call me as long as he's busy. And then, when he's all lonely again, I have to be present or else he is disappointed.

However, it is exactly this behaviour (me calling 4 times in a row in 1 hour) that he is evoking, plus me being annoyed on the phone, that he dislikes about me and is giving him an extreme sense of discomfort. Hence; he won't call the next day. This is the 'before you can make anything better, you must stop making it worse.' But before I can do that, I have to let go of my own issues. I have to let go of the idea that I have to adapt to his behaviour or else I will end up alone. This is what those forum members were talking about. When they started to get so frustrated they were ok with losing the relationship, they stopped adapting. They stopped behaviour that discomforted their spouses and made room for more open communication that was not drenched in fear or guilt. Plus they regained a sense of self-worth and identity.


Idea Idea Idea Idea Idea Idea Idea

Any recognition or thoughts from anyone?
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2014, 06:42:29 AM »

(I'd like to call once a day if we haven't seen each other to check in, it's what I call a relationship). Any recognition or thoughts from anyone?

I had to let go of what 'I call a relationship', to open up the space for us to find our own way.  He wasn't going to answer to anybody, kind of mentality   And the more I pushed, well... .I pushed him further away.  He really didn't and doesn't want to be the end-all-to-be-all for me and I was making him that.  Way too engulfing.  I was being extreme.

I've been married.  I had the big wedding plans and the full-on commitment, buying a house together, getting into each other's business and family issues etc... . We still didn't connect where it really mattered-- our values didn't match up.  Our likes and dislikes weren't compatible.

It took this relationship for me to realize that some things are much more important than what I fancied a relationship ought to be... .

Respect for ourselves, each other and the freedom to grow at our own pace

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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2014, 06:51:47 AM »

Hi Zinzitar,

I there' a lot of truth in this.

Our own traits + the traits of a borderline = a very unhealthy dynamic and quite frequently co-dependency (I know this word can be a trigger)

Rediscovering or discovering our own identity and self worth helps us to establish healthy boundaries and is a vital foundation of any healthy, successful relationship.

Well done for doing the work in therapy.

Reforming

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ziniztar
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2014, 07:49:42 AM »

Thanks, Reforming.

I've noticed that you are responding to other people a lot - that's nice. How are you doing yourself?

I had to let go of what 'I call a relationship', to open up the space for us to find our own way.  He wasn't going to answer to anybody, kind of mentality   And the more I pushed, well... .I pushed him further away.  He really didn't and doesn't want to be the end-all-to-be-all for me and I was making him that.  Way too engulfing.  I was being extreme.

Yeah that sounds like me. I knew I was like this before we got together and I could have stayed single for another 5 years to not become this person, but I also knew I would only be able to change this while in a relationship. I guess were here now.

Excerpt
It took this relationship for me to realize that some things are much more important than what I fancied a relationship ought to be... .

Respect for ourselves, each other and the freedom to grow at our own pace

That is so true, and nice. I'm happy you found this. I think this is the only part that has kept me in this relationship (and what has kept him in)... I think we've got this. That we're not able to always control our immediate responses and emotions, but that we're willing to adapt to what the other wants or slowly acknowledging that if we're not, that it's actually dysfunctional behaviour we should change ourselves.
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 08:53:53 AM »

I'm ok Ziniztar and thanks for asking  

I've taken some time off after finishing a project so I've had the time to read, reflect, rest  and if I think I have anything useful to add, respond to other posters.

I've also been chasing up Schema therapists in the city where I live.

I worked with one for a few months until the end of last a year and though it definitely helped I decided I needed to try someone else.

So I've revisited my list of fully qualified Schema T's that I compiled year ago to check for availability. One has a slot in Sept but I'm going to keep plugging away to see if anyone has anything sooner.

I'm practicing mindfulness, taking exercise, journalling   but also smoking and ruminating  

All in all I would say that I'm very much a work in progress  Being cool (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2014, 12:37:33 PM »

Being in a BPD relationship (albeit undiagnosed) has definitely caused me to adapt in ways I never thought I would. I definitely drink a whole lot more than I used to and i justify it because it keeps me in a good mood and I can deal with my BPDw easier.

I've also always been a very straightforward person and speak my mind. When it comes to me wife though I always have to tell white lies or withhold information in order to keep the peace because she can't handle the truth most of the time.

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ziniztar
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2014, 05:06:48 PM »

I had to let go of what 'I call a relationship', to open up the space for us to find our own way.  He wasn't going to answer to anybody, kind of mentality   And the more I pushed, well... .I pushed him further away.  He really didn't and doesn't want to be the end-all-to-be-all for me and I was making him that.  Way too engulfing.  I was being extreme.

So, ok. How do you determine the line between engulfing and requesting him to accept my needs as well? Between extreme and normal? I think it's normal to want to talk over the phone, show show interest in each others day. How can I know what is my own unrealistic expectation, and what is fair and should be battled  for?
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ziniztar
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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2014, 05:14:46 PM »

mstnghu, I can relate to you. You are taught so quickly what you should or shouldnt do. And then you find out there is no consistency in it... .

However there is a difference in people always adapting to other people (me) and those that generally don't but start doing it in their BPD relationship.

I don't think I'm walking on eggshells as I will confront him about behaviour I don't like about him and get into fights if I really have to. I think my behaviour is not even related to his BPD, I've had it with every boyfriend in my life.

Reformed, glad to read you're doing better. Read your intro Posts, sorry to find out about your story. Good luck with further reforming Smiling (click to insert in post)
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2014, 06:25:46 PM »

I had to let go of what 'I call a relationship', to open up the space for us to find our own way.  He wasn't going to answer to anybody, kind of mentality   And the more I pushed, well... .I pushed him further away.  He really didn't and doesn't want to be the end-all-to-be-all for me and I was making him that.  Way too engulfing.  I was being extreme.

So, ok. How do you determine the line between engulfing and requesting him to accept my needs as well? Between extreme and normal? I think it's normal to want to talk over the phone, show show interest in each others day. How can I know what is my own unrealistic expectation, and what is fair and should be battled  for?

I've done my share of battling Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  I am one of those that was ready to lose the relationship.  Some of his tactics were way too much for me to handle; I couldn't handle it.  I didn't understand him at all, or myself really.

I want to say, just request it!  Ask for what you want.  There are tools for this, S.E.T and DEARMAN.  Are you ready to lose the relationship over this if he can't come through for you?  Will you be totally bummed? Take fairness and normal out of the equation.  What feels good and bad to you?  If it's important to have daily catch up phone calls and you want him to want to do some of the calling, but he's refusing and acting out, then you're going to have to stop calling him.  He won't know you're serious until he misses what he had.  That's how it worked for me.  It sounds like a game, but it's not.  Because I was truly sick of it and ready to walk, or at least not do whatever my request was with him.  I would find someone else. <---I didn't tell him this, I let my actions do the talking.

It's only an unrealistic expectation, if he's thoroughly uninterested and it becomes a major sore spot for you; causing resentment and all kinds of other icky feelings.  By stepping out of my own comfort zone and getting my needs met by other means, it gave him the space and freedom to make his own choices.

Does that help?

 
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« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2014, 07:46:52 PM »

Phoebe it sounds like ahealthy, sensible advice. I suppose the key thing is willingness to walk away. The longer you stay the harder it is to do that and when you've invested a lot of time or there's children involved it's even tougher. Though I think you need to hold on to enough of yourself to do that in any healthy relationship

Thanks Ziniztar. When I read the stories of some of the others here I think I probably got off lightly but it's nice to share our stories and support each other. I stayed for a long time and I think it takes a lot of love and guts. Good luck

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« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2014, 07:59:02 PM »

Over adapting pushes you off your own foundations. pwBPD have no foundations, they need you to push against to define who they are, so you have to be stable for them. If you are no longer stable they can despise you for not meeting that need for security.

The who lot spirals into an even more dysfunctional mess.
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ziniztar
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2014, 03:17:18 AM »

Over adapting pushes you off your own foundations. pwBPD have no foundations, they need you to push against to define who they are, so you have to be stable for them. If you are no longer stable they can despise you for not meeting that need for security.

He has. He even calmly mentioned to me in a somewhat grown up talk that he thinks I am overreacting and he cannot empathize when I feel lonely. He does not want to soothe me. I think it's the lack of empathy but also his need for me to be strong. He can't deal with my instability and it's causing a lot of resentment on my side. I'm not sure if we can fight this or if this is what will cause the break-up. He was quite relieved to hear I had a new T appointment because he couldn't hold it much longer.

I want to say, just request it!  Ask for what you want.  

I did, but never used the tools. I said it in a resenting or victimized kind of way. I guess that doesn't help. It makes me resent him even more because he said "I will try" and since then he has even done worse. It makes me cringe and think "but I ASKED, how can you ignore that!".

Excerpt
Are you ready to lose the relationship over this if he can't come through for you?  

This has to grow. This won't cause me to end the relationship, the (perceived) lack of effort to work on this, eventually, will. I need to know I'm not in this alone and even though he's struggeling, he's still doing everything he can

Excerpt
Take fairness and normal out of the equation.  What feels good and bad to you?  If it's important to have daily catch up phone calls and you want him to want to do some of the calling, but he's refusing and acting out, then you're going to have to stop calling him.  He won't know you're serious until he misses what he had.  

I did, yesterday. I still feel a little strange. I was afraid to find out that if I didn't call, he wouldn't. To find out that he does not think of me and/or doesn't have the same needs. I've had this sharp knife of anxiousness punching in my stomach all day long. When I got to the point I went to bed, realizing he really didn't call, I started crying quite heavily. And then it was gone.

This morning when I woke up I thought: meh, it's kinda nice to be able to let each other go and then have the confidence we're still going strong. Allthough it still stings a little I've asked it and he said he would make an effort but didn't.

Excerpt
It's only an unrealistic expectation, if he's thoroughly uninterested and it becomes a major sore spot for you; causing resentment and all kinds of other icky feelings.  By stepping out of my own comfort zone and getting my needs met by other means, it gave him the space and freedom to make his own choices.

Does that help?

I don't think he's thoroughly uninterested. With ADHD, 150 kids running around at work, his need to feel useful, his enlarged sense of responsibility on those days... there's a lot going on at the same time. He doesn't need a winy girlfriend on top of that. It does hurt that he doesn't think of me when he goes to bed. He used to do that so the change hurts.

There's another schema he's scoring quite high on, that of undisciplined, spoiled child. He only wants to do what he wants and does not accept boundaries or limitations from other people, not even from a girlfriend he likes to be and stay with (most of the time). His mom told me some bullies at school had locked him up when he was young - and I know his mom is super overprotective. That doesn't give you space. I get where it's coming from but in order for me to stay in this he has to give me something. This is important... although me learning to calm down in these situations had to happen as well.

Thanks all. This really helps.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2014, 05:27:37 AM »

There's another schema he's scoring quite high on, that of undisciplined, spoiled child. He only wants to do what he wants and does not accept boundaries or limitations from other people, not even from a girlfriend he likes to be and stay with (most of the time). His mom told me some bullies at school had locked him up when he was young - and I know his mom is super overprotective. That doesn't give you space. I get where it's coming from but in order for me to stay in this he has to give me something. This is important... although me learning to calm down in these situations had to happen as well.

Thanks all. This really helps.

I'm wondering if mentally stepping away from his issues for a while, maybe a week, would help at all, while focusing more on your feelings that crop up and addressing those only... .without his input.

Honestly, if someone were this deep into my business (other than a T that I sought out), I would feel completely overwhelmed and want to get far away.  Even when we're not actually saying, "Hey, I saw your schema test results... .", we might act from that place of knowing.

A foundation is not made of disordered traits and broken promises, it's made of bricks and mortar-- strength and trust in our ability to stand tall in the face of adversity, to weather the storms that will undoubtedly try to shake us off of our foundation = acceptance.

I scored high on undisciplined child, also.  My computer desk is a mess!  There are dishes in my sink and I hate folding laundry.  I'm okay with all of it and luckily and thankfully my SO accepts it about me
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ziniztar
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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2014, 06:02:40 AM »

I'm doing the best I can but apparently my feelings of responsiblity of his issues/emotions and the need to control all this is too huge. I can't mentally step away, it makes me feel guilty.

Hence the T.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2014, 06:07:10 AM »

I'm doing the best I can but apparently my feelings of responsiblity of his issues/emotions and the need to control all this is too huge. I can't mentally step away, it makes me feel guilty.

Hence the T.

 ziniztar Smiling (click to insert in post)

Have you read Codependent No More?

Btw, thanks for posting that about schema therapy/undisciplined child... .  I did the dishes Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2014, 06:50:18 AM »

Btw, thanks for posting that about schema therapy/undisciplined child... .  I did the dishes Smiling (click to insert in post)

You mean you pressed the start button? All on your own? By yourself? without any help?

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2014, 07:44:16 AM »

When they started to get so frustrated they were ok with losing the relationship, they stopped adapting. They stopped behaviour that discomforted their spouses and made room for more open communication that was not drenched in fear or guilt. Plus they regained a sense of self-worth and identity.

Yes.  Absolutely 100%

For me the turning point was filing for divorce and going right up to the 11th hour before reversing.  I think it gave her the message that I do have choices. 

The tricky part is detaching with love.  I have detached.  Sometimes it feels like too much detachment (Im going to do my own thing and not worry what she thinks about it).  Always a balance, but regaining a sense of self allows you more confidence in your choices.  And pulling in your friends/family and support group is key.  And getting back your interests and hobbies.  Taking care of your health.  All part of it.

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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2014, 01:25:29 PM »

Btw, thanks for posting that about schema therapy/undisciplined child... .  I did the dishes Smiling (click to insert in post)

You mean you pressed the start button? All on your own? By yourself? without any help?

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Umm, didn't actually get that far as there's that whole UNloading task to contend with   Does wiping off the stove grant a pat on the back? Being cool (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2014, 04:28:33 PM »

I have to let go of the idea that I have to adapt to his behaviour or else I will end up alone.

It takes more than that. You not only have to let go of the idea (in your head) but you also have to do it (in real life).

Change takes two steps

- cognition

- behavior

Cognition can be  Idea i.e. sudden.

Behavior takes a bit more time. In this case not so much but it is hard. If you think where it is hard not to be reactive then you end up at boundaries. It is there where we stop being reactive and it is usually very hard at least the first times.

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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2014, 07:16:02 PM »

an0ught

Very well put. I agree that changing your behaviour can be the real challenge

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« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2014, 05:50:15 AM »

Excerpt
Take fairness and normal out of the equation.  What feels good and bad to you?  If it's important to have daily catch up phone calls and you want him to want to do some of the calling, but he's refusing and acting out, then you're going to have to stop calling him.  He won't know you're serious until he misses what he had.  

I did, yesterday. I still feel a little strange. I was afraid to find out that if I didn't call, he wouldn't. To find out that he does not think of me and/or doesn't have the same needs. I've had this sharp knife of anxiousness punching in my stomach all day long. When I got to the point I went to bed, realizing he really didn't call, I started crying quite heavily. And then it was gone.

This morning when I woke up I thought: meh, it's kinda nice to be able to let each other go and then have the confidence we're still going strong. Allthough it still stings a little I've asked it and he said he would make an effort but didn't.

It was at this point that things really started to get going... .

This is when instead of thinking about the things he wasn't doing for me and feeling bad about it started to shift.  I was at a breaking point and knew something had to change; what else am I interested in?  At night when my thoughts would go to him, I started planning landscaping around my house.  Rather than point fingers at him (I'm really good at that!), I'd discuss what was going on in my life. 

He came through for me!  He dug so many holes for plants and trees and even built me a patio!  Bought all of the supplies!  Consulted with his dad on how to go about it etc... .

The pressure was off and he was free to come forward; he did it with gusto

I had been holding him back with just as much force

There's a certain magnetism involved in these relationships Idea

How are you feeling today, ziniztar? 
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« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2014, 07:40:53 AM »

Over adapting pushes you off your own foundations. pwBPD have no foundations, they need you to push against to define who they are, so you have to be stable for them. If you are no longer stable they can despise you for not meeting that need for security.

The who lot spirals into an even more dysfunctional mess.

Hmm... .very interesting point of view... .never looked at it quite like that.

In my situation... .my PTSD flared up pretty bad several years back.  I'm sure when she pushed against my foundations... .they were cracked.

In a normal r/s... .I would have leaned on her and gotten support.  What I think happened with us is that I leaned on her and she despised me... .accused me... .etc etc.

I didn't appreciate that much... .so... .I accused her... .she accused me... .and the toxic dance began.

Thoughts on the theory?

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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2014, 07:56:54 AM »

Over adapting pushes you off your own foundations. pwBPD have no foundations, they need you to push against to define who they are, so you have to be stable for them. If you are no longer stable they can despise you for not meeting that need for security.

The who lot spirals into an even more dysfunctional mess.

Hmm... .very interesting point of view... .never looked at it quite like that.

In my situation... .my PTSD flared up pretty bad several years back.  I'm sure when she pushed against my foundations... .they were cracked.

In a normal r/s... .I would have leaned on her and gotten support.  What I think happened with us is that I leaned on her and she despised me... .accused me... .etc etc.

I didn't appreciate that much... .so... .I accused her... .she accused me... .and the toxic dance began.

Thoughts on the theory?

You stole her victim role. taking from her is seen as persecutor action. You were treated as persecutor when you felt like a victim and that triggered a feeling of injustice in you.
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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2014, 08:03:36 AM »

Over adapting pushes you off your own foundations. pwBPD have no foundations, they need you to push against to define who they are, so you have to be stable for them. If you are no longer stable they can despise you for not meeting that need for security.

The who lot spirals into an even more dysfunctional mess.

Hmm... .very interesting point of view... .never looked at it quite like that.

In my situation... .my PTSD flared up pretty bad several years back.  I'm sure when she pushed against my foundations... .they were cracked.

In a normal r/s... .I would have leaned on her and gotten support.  What I think happened with us is that I leaned on her and she despised me... .accused me... .etc etc.

I didn't appreciate that much... .so... .I accused her... .she accused me... .and the toxic dance began.

Thoughts on the theory?

You stole her victim role. taking from her is seen as persecutor action. You were treated as persecutor when you felt like a victim and that triggered a feeling of injustice in you.

Yes... .absolutely!  That nailed it.  I'm working on my feelings of injustice.  Right now I value peace and quiet more than I enjoy justice.

Any thoughts on how to "properly" move her out of victim role?

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ortac77
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« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2014, 09:37:54 AM »

Over adapting pushes you off your own foundations. pwBPD have no foundations, they need you to push against to define who they are, so you have to be stable for them. If you are no longer stable they can despise you for not meeting that need for security.

The who lot spirals into an even more dysfunctional mess.

Hmm... .very interesting point of view... .never looked at it quite like that.

In my situation... .my PTSD flared up pretty bad several years back.  I'm sure when she pushed against my foundations... .they were cracked.

In a normal r/s... .I would have leaned on her and gotten support.  What I think happened with us is that I leaned on her and she despised me... .accused me... .etc etc.

I didn't appreciate that much... .so... .I accused her... .she accused me... .and the toxic dance began.

Thoughts on the theory?

You stole her victim role. taking from her is seen as persecutor action. You were treated as persecutor when you felt like a victim and that triggered a feeling of injustice in you.

Yes... .absolutely!  That nailed it.  I'm working on my feelings of injustice.  Right now I value peace and quiet more than I enjoy justice.

Any thoughts on how to "properly" move her out of victim role?

Interesting

I am very aware that in order to be supportive of my BPD partner I have to maintain my stability. Luckily I am generally a very stable person, I can usually think my way through situations and have found using the SET technique useful, I have a little mantra going in my head before any interaction ("don't react, don't react). If I don't maintain that stability and serenity it is quite true, things will rapidly deteriorate into a big mess!

When I adopt this method I feel a lot better, I can detach from the BPD thinking and apply a kind of cold logic, I struggle but usually try and put myself in the centre of this by keeping grounded in the moment rather than panicking about any outcome. I also try to remain aware of other influences, although borrowed from Alcoholics Anonymous I find the mnemonic HALT (am I Hungry/Angry/Lonely/Tired) useful in reminding me that I have needs that I must not neglect.

When I feel stressed or angry (after all I am only human) I try not to go to my partner for support, he cannot give it and it will always be turned back against me - they really have to be the victim at all times, life is just so unfair! Luckily I have other ways of offloading my discomfort, anger or hurt - although increasingly I find myself practising a radical acceptance. in a way dealing with BPD has helped enable me to not see myself as a victim or perpetrator, merely just part of something bigger and that my only locus of control is over myself.

I am not sure how you can move 'them' out of the Victim role, it is a comfort zone for them as it avoids taking any personal responsibility and because emotionally they are a child it is much easier to blame us/anyone/life/God/the world.

My partner is shortly to start therapy, he does recognise his illness but it is interesting that his symptoms are getting worse as the therapy approaches also that the worse he gets the more I detach and reinforce my boundaries to not get involved in the madness. I suppose I am aware that I used to over adapt but that was not helping me or him. Whilst I hate to see a loved one in pain or likely to get into trouble I have had to accept that I am not responsible for it and indeed my previous 'help' has probably only made things worse.

I hope that the therapy enables him to start on a process of emotional maturation, if not we will not be together in the future - I have learnt that I am actually worth more than being an emotional crutch - sounds harsh but it is radical acceptance - I cannot change another and indeed have no right to do so.

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ziniztar
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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2014, 11:45:03 AM »

Any thoughts on how to "properly" move her out of victim role?

I don't think you can do it for them, they have to do it themselves. I believe getting out of the persecutor/rescuer/victim dance can only be done by taking responsibility for your own actions, and keeping responsibility for other people's actions & emotions with them. You can only assist in such a way that you make them clear this is how the world works. Don't use guilt or blame - be centered and responsible. Teach them. It's up to them whether they will pick it up or not.

How are you feeling today, ziniztar?  

Thanks for checking in Smiling (click to insert in post).

I noticed I got a little mad at you  for saying I had to mentally step away. I know that when I get mad it means I won't allow myself something, so I stepped away from the board a little because you' were absolutely right, and tried to examine that. I got mad at a coach last week because she said my reactions were quite childish. That infuriated me - I then realized I won't allow myself to be childish, perhaps I've stopped allowing myself since age 5. You can see it in pictures as well - goofy, bright & shiny before my mom died, very responsible and quiet in every other picture afterwards.

So that brought me to the realization I won't allow myself to stop worrying/thinking about my dBPDbf. That hit me, because all of a sudden I saw the time spent lurking on the board here (), thinking about him, worrying, waiting, is time I should be spending on myself. I've always hated girls that only do stuff with their boyfriends, loosing their own lives... I don't do stuff with my dBPDbf but I did loose my (single) lifestyle.

Since yesterday I feel so much better about us not talking that much now when he's away for work. I really don't see the issue anymore - this is great. Being apart but together (as opposed to connected but alone). I'm sure I'm gonna get into a few more of these moments but I think I'm slowly understanding how this all works. How acting upon your fears can keep you in that fear.

an0ught, welcome back (I'm guess some of the senior members are or have been on holidays Smiling (click to insert in post))

If you think where it is hard not to be reactive then you end up at boundaries. It is there where we stop being reactive and it is usually very hard at least the first times.

I'm getting a better understanding of the use of boundaries now as well.

I've had quite some insights this week, I'm going to let that sink in a little bit more.

Thanks everyone.
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waverider
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« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2014, 05:23:51 PM »

Any thoughts on how to "properly" move her out of victim role?

Victims require a prosecutor and rescuer (real or perceived), avoiding falling into those roles will prevent you reinforcing the victim mode. However, you cant drag her out of the role, nor her painting someone else (eg family & friends) into those roles.

I think it probably takes effective recovery from BPD to properly remove victimization traits, as it is a core trait.
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bruceli
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« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2014, 01:21:00 PM »

A few times now I've read people that were able to positively change their relationship, write the following words: "It was only at the point where I was ready to loose the relationship / file for divorce that things got better."

I'm slowly learning in therapy now that I am what they call someone who adapts to another persons needs in an extremey way. It's why I fell for egocentric guys (probably NPD) in the past. It's why I feel such strong emotions in this current relationship with my dBPDbf. I feel like I have to adapt, or else... .I am left alone, I am left behind, I am abandoned.

In my intake I explained to my T that my dbDPbf's coping behaviour is driving me nuts. He'll selflishly plan his entire week full with activities (to avoid being alone) but cannot tolerate or meet any needs from my end (I'd like to call once a day if we haven't seen each other to check in, it's what I call a relationship). I end up calling him and resenting him for the fact I had to do it. The T mentioned: what happens if you don't call him?

And then it hit me  Idea: if I don't call him, if I don't take (!) the responsibility of being together... I fear that he will forget about me, and I will never see him again. I'm quite certain he won't call me as long as he's busy. And then, when he's all lonely again, I have to be present or else he is disappointed.

However, it is exactly this behaviour (me calling 4 times in a row in 1 hour) that he is evoking, plus me being annoyed on the phone, that he dislikes about me and is giving him an extreme sense of discomfort. Hence; he won't call the next day. This is the 'before you can make anything better, you must stop making it worse.' But before I can do that, I have to let go of my own issues. I have to let go of the idea that I have to adapt to his behaviour or else I will end up alone. This is what those forum members were talking about. When they started to get so frustrated they were ok with losing the relationship, they stopped adapting. They stopped behaviour that discomforted their spouses and made room for more open communication that was not drenched in fear or guilt. Plus they regained a sense of self-worth and identity.


Idea Idea Idea Idea Idea Idea Idea

Any recognition or thoughts from anyone?

The above is possible.  Have you heard about object permanence and how it relates to PD's? 
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waverider
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« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2014, 08:48:07 AM »

The above is possible.  Have you heard about object permanence and how it relates to PD's? 

A discussion re object consistency

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70884.0;all
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ziniztar
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Relationship status: I chose to end the r/s end of October 2014. He cheated and pushed every button he could to push me away until I had to leave.
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« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2014, 09:44:19 AM »

The above is possible.  Have you heard about object permanence and how it relates to PD's? 

Yeah I have, it doesn't really help  Smiling (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). Maybe knowing this is magnifying my fears of him cheating on me when I'm not around. Him not calling = proof he's forgetting about me = probably cheating. I don't know.

The other day we were discussing our r/s and he mentioned it's been a month and we've only had 2 really nice days together. (if you're gone for work for 20 days then yeah that kinda makes sense - although I didn't say it). I validated that he was right and he said 'well at least it's good to hear you think the same thing, so I know I'm not completely crazy'. I thought that was a perfect example of validating the invalid and it worked  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post).
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