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Author Topic: Am I being sexually abused?  (Read 565 times)
hark

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: separated
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« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2014, 03:59:12 PM »

"It seems to me from reading all your accounts about what your partners want that goes against your comfort level comes down to a matter of values and boundaries. Do you think so?"

Dreamflyer, I think you're right.

In my situation, it wasn't always like this. There were definitely times when his needs came FAR above whatever my needs were. I've had a very difficult time with personal issues (several major family illnesses and deaths) for the majority of our relationship. My already ill father was diagnosed a month after meeting my uBPDbf. I learned early on that I could not rely on my bf for any sort of emotional support during that illness, and while grieving my father's death. It bothered me a lot at first, but I chalked it up to the fact that my bf is a hospice nurse who deals with death and loss every day of his life. That, combined with his intense abandonment fears, helped me realize that he was literally incapable of "being there" for me.

In the bedroom, he was the exact opposite. He cared only about meeting my needs, and making sure I was satisfied. There was still a lot of rejection, though. It seemed that sex only happened when he initiated. He spoke a lot about me initiating, and that I must not want him. From my perspective, I was already initiating quite a bit, but was almost always turned down. I upped the ante, and began initiating more often, and in different ways. Still, the end result was sex on his terms, and accusations of me having a low libido.

Historically, I've had a somewhat rigid sense of core values, particularly involving sex. I wanted to change that and loosen up to more experimentation. I wanted that for me, and I wanted to ring that to our relationship.

Unfortunately, this created a "perfect storm" scenario. I was trying to push my own boundaries while maintaining my core values (no infidelity under any circumstance). Whatever my bf was/is going through, runs counter to those core values.

I still believe - because of the timing of things, and because of the intense grief we both suffered - that the loss of our baby was the trigger for his delusional thoughts and actions.

For me to even entertain the thought of MEETING a potential cuckold partner, runs very much against those core values. I think the reason I've felt so scrambled is because I was already trying to grow and push myself into things that were uncomfortable. His pushing for things that were truly NOT what I wanted, got stirred up in that scrambled confusion.
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DreamFlyer99
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Relationship status: married 30+ years
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« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2014, 04:18:01 PM »

Yes, that's a lot of confusion to deal with. And let me say, I am so sorry about the loss of your baby, I know what an awful loss that is. Very unsettling. My uBPDh didn't tell me how he felt about my miscarriages until many years later, I don't think he could define it at the time. I do know that he could only be there for me some of the time, not necessarily all the times I felt I needed him to be, though back in those days he was a bit more present for me.

I lost my sister 2 years ago, and boy he could not be a support at all. It was the most horrendous grief, but everything was still about him and how he felt about it. I had to tell him "please just hold me." It just doesn't come naturally to someone who has intimacy issues, and intimacy shows itself in many forms.

It sounds like your bf's signals were pretty confusing about sex. I would have been pretty confused about what was going on too!

It's really good you can define your core beliefs and values, I had gotten so confused by the shifting dynamics one day to the next with my h that I lost sight of what things really mattered to me, until I was just reacting reacting reacting.   

My h went the opposite way though, he basically cut me off from any sexual r/s. So like you, sex on his terms. The couple of times in a couple of years that we did have sex it was clearly all about him.

so interesting how all these things play out within the disorder.
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JohnLove
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« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2014, 08:33:50 PM »

It seems to me from reading all your accounts about what your partners want that goes against your comfort level comes down to a matter of values and boundaries. Do you think so?

So much is a part of the disorder of BP and the "everything is ultimately about me" thinking they have. And I don't mean that in a cruel way, it's just a fact of the disorder. All that fear of abandonment and fear of intimacy sounds like in your cases it boils down to being more of a voyeur than participant. Participation requires 2 willing partners, people who will take the other person's feelings into consideration. Often for a person suffering with BPD it's more about "how you make me feel" than "how you feel."

This truth was brought home to me when after 37 years of marriage I put myself in a biiiig time out after my uBPDh got physically threatening. I'd been dealing with the emotional and mental abuse for a long time, but the physical was my wake up call. Anyway, he got into my private journaling on my computer and read some of my entries about the pain I felt from his treatment of me. His response? "How could you write those things about meee? You're so angry!" He totally missed that I wrote those IN RESPONSE to his emotional abuse. All he could see was how he felt about what I wrote, not how I felt.

Porn and excitement over your partner's affairs and even the control issues of wanting to push you farther than you're comfortable, fantasies that don't consider your feelings, all those are about Them. And they don't involve a relationship, or honesty, or taking another into consideration. It's all about what they want to receive, because the sexual partnership isn't reciprocal. That's why your needs aren't considered. It's just the fact of it, not a judgment.

And this is where your values and boundaries come in, since you can't change your partner (though God knows I tried for years! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) )

I'm so so sorry for what all of you have been through! Feeling like an object in your own bed is not nice, to say the least. Feeling second to some internet chick with perfect boobs is also not nice. And not being considered IS NOT NICE!

DreamFlyer99, I believe in a general sense with these situations you have hit the nail on the head.

I know human sexuality, what's normal and not, and what's healthy or unhealthy for the individuals concerned is extremely complex... .no one should judge anothers sexual behaviours lest they take it out of context... .but throw in BPD and oh hell!.  

Boundaries between consenting adults or husband and wife are always going to become blurred as intimacy that is not evolving, becomes stagnant or boring or genuinely unsatisfying.

I heard a statistic about conventional marriage the other day that said of the 1400 cultures that were studied on this planet only 400 were monogamous.

I found that somewhat telling but I appreciate everyone is different and I am in the minority but monogamy is what's "right" for ME.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

I don't feel there is a universal answer but the people in this thread seem to be finding themselves... .one way or the other... .I don't feel it's only about values and boundaries.

My advice:

Listen to what's in your heart. The heart does not lie. There is truth in there... .including YOUR truth.  
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2014, 09:26:00 PM »

It seems to me from reading all your accounts about what your partners want that goes against your comfort level comes down to a matter of values and boundaries. Do you think so?

I don't think it was as much about values as it was boundaries and basic respect. For me, it has been frustrating to feel like I have no individuality or personal autonomy. It felt like all of my attempts at personal autonomy were thwarted.

Excerpt
Participation requires 2 willing partners, people who will take the other person's feelings into consideration. Often for a person suffering with BPD it's more about "how you make me feel" than "how you feel."

I would go even further and say that there was a lot of projection because he would perceive that I would feel one way but that is not how I really felt at all. I could be enjoying something without a lot of fanfare and it would be perceived as me not enjoying it or being into it. I am not  a porn star.

Excerpt
And this is where your values and boundaries come in, since you can't change your partner (though God knows I tried for years! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) )

I never wanted my husband to change as much as I wanted him to work with me to find ways for both of us to be happy. I was open to some things but not others. Rather than giving me time to think and check in with myself and what I felt I could live with, he would pressure me and talk in circles and make it so that I couldn't even think straight.

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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2014, 09:42:32 PM »

For me to even entertain the thought of MEETING a potential cuckold partner, runs very much against those core values. I think the reason I've felt so scrambled is because I was already trying to grow and push myself into things that were uncomfortable. His pushing for things that were truly NOT what I wanted, got stirred up in that scrambled confusion.

In reading and participating in this thread, I realize how much my core values have changed. And really, I don't know if they have changed as much as I have come to realize that I never would have done anything with anybody else ever if I thought there was some kind of hope that things would get better between me and my husband. He was so checked out of our relationship and family life. The lights were on but nobody was home. I have thought about leaving and have talked to my husband about leaving. He is not going to move and he will make it virtually impossible for me to move. One of the things that he said one time when we were discussing it is that I would have to get another job because he wouldn't be able to support us. I have a job. All I would need him for is helping to support HIS kids. He has made it perfectly clear that he will do anything and everything to make it difficult, if not impossible, for me to leave. If you want to give me lemons, I am going to find a way to make lemon aide!

I saw it as an opportunity for me to get out of the house and make a new friend. For me, it was never really about the sex with the other person. For him, it was all about the sex and the excitement and the voyeurism. I walked a fine line between feeding him what he wanted while still maintaining a bit of self respect.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2014, 09:54:54 PM »

I found that somewhat telling but I appreciate everyone is different and I am in the minority but monogamy is what's "right" for ME.  

Two or three years ago, I would have said the exact same thing. My desire for monogamy was challenged by my desire to give my kids an in tact home. I am not sure if that is right or wrong but that is one of my core values. My husband knows that and has used it to his advantage. My desire for monogamy was challenged by a whole lot of things. Since I have had friends over the years that have made alternative arrangement work, I was very open to reconsidering things.

One of my friends recommended the book "Sex at Dawn" and it is all about the history of sex. It is fascinating as it mentions that serial monogamy (marry, divorce, marry, divorce) isn't really that much different than having more than one partner at a time. I am not sure that I agree with it but it did cause me to pause and think about it in terms of what kind of impact it would have on my kids.

For me, the confounding factor/variable was my husband. The "normal" people that I have talked to that have been in open relationships have told me that it requires a lot of work and it requires being thoughtful and honest with each other. Until I found this board, I thought I was crazy because I felt like I was missing a vital piece of the puzzle. The vital piece that was missing is that my husband is not capable of having a healthy relationship with one person. How in the world would it work if he were to have friends on the side? It would be a situation where he would be amassing "friends" to make him feel better. At one point, I emailed a couple of the ladies that he was talking to and told them what was really going on. They were really nice ladies and we even friended each other on social media. Those ladies didn't deserve to be treated as objects any more than I did.
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anxiety5
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« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2014, 12:01:07 AM »

OCD is a very common trait for BPD and you are right in your conclusion that it's not the core issue. Do you notice the OCD comes on in times of stress? People with BPD have an overwhelming amount of anxiety. What some will label as emotional is actually anxiety. Control is at the core of this condition. When stress mounts, they feel out of control which triggers anxiety to the max. OCD is nothing more than an outlet. It's a way to purge overwhelming anxiety. When your life is out of control or the people around you are not able to be under your control, the individual will compulsively clean, rearrange objects or impulsively act. It's a measure of control. They feel better. For the prototypical person who rearranges their pantry when their OCD is kicking in, it's a way of controlling something to provide relief when nothing else seems to be under your control.

My uBPD is the same way. It comes on like clockwork. As far as wondering if they have BPD or not, the hallmark in my experience is perpetual drama. Nothing is ever calm, except maybe on a vacation of just us. If it's not her kid, her ex, it's her job or her house. There is always some crisis at hand which allows the chaos to ensue. I feel like I'm riding a wave most of the time. For example right now it's work. I don't doubt her stress but I totally believe it's embellished. Once again this is all about control. It's a way to keep the focus on them at all times. And it's why a codependent person with fixer tendencies is a usual fit for such a person. We all seek peace in life. Most non's simply can't take all the drama constantly and will walk. Each of us here (in my opinion) have some sort of attachment or codependent issue that keeps us involved. I hope nobody takes offense to that, because I'm including myself. We are good people. Fiercely loyal, good and decent people who simply want to help. When we let our guard down and fall hard, we seem to get "stuck"

If any of that sounds familiar I think your unofficial diagnosis is dead on. 

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DreamFlyer99
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married 30+ years
Posts: 1863



« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2014, 01:15:40 PM »

I don't think it was as much about values as it was boundaries and basic respect. For me, it has been frustrating to feel like I have no individuality or personal autonomy. It felt like all of my attempts at personal autonomy were thwarted.

I never wanted my husband to change as much as I wanted him to work with me to find ways for both of us to be happy. I was open to some things but not others. Rather than giving me time to think and check in with myself and what I felt I could live with, he would pressure me and talk in circles and make it so that I couldn't even think straight.

Do you feel boundaries and respect are things you highly value in a relationship? That's all I mean by values. Being able to be fully you in a relationship and have the ability to say "no, I don't want to do that" to your partner, are also things you value. Those are normal things to expect because you ARE fully you as a partner in a relationship, it gets lopsided in a r/s with a pwBPD because to them the partnership is about them and what they want, and we end up needing to keep our boundaries in order to show them how we want to be treated. A marriage isn't all about one person, and when it is it's often an indication of us being enough in the FOG of fear, obligation and guilt so we overlook our own basic human rights.

My h would often tell me things that made it sound like I was so reliant on him and his income that I couldn't make it without him, and that's part of what happens in a r/s with a pwBPD, they'd like us to be dependent on them and have control over our relationships. That again is just a part of their disorder--the constant juggling to have control in their own life by controlling the actions and movements of their partners and sometimes their whole family. It's not a judgment, it's just one of the dynamics of someone with BPD. It can be like we are actors in their play, and if we want to be seen as an individual with autonomy we start having boundaries that display that. Then it's not up to us how they react. And there are ways to deal with that too.

It's a process, becoming an individual in this kind of r/s, and it takes time, but it's worth it to feel like a whole person. Smiling (click to insert in post)

For my own relationship, I just think I started too late with all that and my h got really comfortable with how things were (for decades!) and so was incredibly resistant to any change. You're in a much earlier stage of marriage and that gives more hope for the things you change up in your own side of the r/s to make a difference.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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