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Author Topic: My other sister  (Read 507 times)
Barbara Smith

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« on: August 04, 2014, 10:04:00 PM »

So, I have had a better relationship with my other sister.  She looked up to me and leaned on me for many years.  Then her relationship with her husband got very bad.  She called me screaming that he had left the house and didn't know if he was coming back (he did).  She screamed about him and then said that she realized that she was not perfect, either.  I said, "Maybe that's how you could start a conversation with him".  Then she started screaming at me.  Horrible things.  After a while I said that I was saying good-bye.  Then I hung up.  Well, this is apparently her unforgivable sin, because I got evil, evil e-mails from her after that.  Really bad.  It was devastating to me.  Since then we have tried to talk some, but mostly she speaks to me in monotone as briefly as possible.  It is stressful to me.  Since I have decided to break communication with them both, I have a freeing feeling and I actually miss them and think about good times.  Missing them is actually a more positive feeling than the tense worry I had before.  

I really loved my childhood.  Our folks were not perfect, I dealt with it better I guess.  I think that they did the best they could.  We had a lot of good times.  There is history of mental illness in our family, and this sister now has a child struggling with mental health issues as well.

My sisters are both extremely intelligent and capable of subtle and creative manipulative language and behaviors.  
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Kwamina
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 02:15:26 AM »

Hi there

Two sisters with BPD is a lot to deal with. You've decided to go NC but I understand that you still miss them sometimes because they are still your sisters. Do you feel like you miss them for who they really are or that you miss the loving sisters you always wanted them to be?

I'm sorry you've been subjected to this verbal abuse by your sister. You say you had he better relationship with this sister, was this the first time that she really turned on you like this?

My sisters are both extremely intelligent and capable of subtle and creative manipulative language and behaviors. 

I find this last part of your post very interesting. People with BPD can often be very manipulative, I've seen that with my own uBPD mom and sis. The fact that your sisters are highly intelligent could add a whole new level to those manipulations. Could you tel us a bit more about their behavior that you would describe as manipulative?
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Barbara Smith

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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2014, 07:00:15 AM »

Thank you for your reply, Kwamima.  There have been other minor incidents in the past with this sister, but nothing like this.  I read a post on this board about someone's sister giving a car to their son and believing it was a manipulative gesture.  I could really relate.  This sister, at one point, sent me a painting that our father painted.  A very special one that was her inheritance.  It made me so upset that she would think so lightly of her inheritance and that she would believe that ,her inheritance to me would make me happy.  I really believe it was manipulative of her, but could not put it into words exactly why I believed that.  Eventually I sent it back to her, which she was not happy about
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Barbara Smith

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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 07:09:44 AM »

(I hit post by mistake.). In one of my sentences, the word "giving" got left out by mistake.  "that GIVING her inheritance to me would make me happy." Yikes, I have to get better at this!   Anyway, I sent back the painting because I did not want to be manipulated.  I made the mistake with my other sister of asking her to send some family items back that my mom had let her borrow so that the whole family could enjoy them.  She said that it was interesting that I considered MY family to be "the whole family" - I don't, and didn't mean that in any way.  She just twisted my words, creatively.
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Linda Maria
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 10:45:32 AM »

Hi Barbara!  The manipulation thing is interesting. For years now, long before things got really bad (which really only happened last year after my Mum died), my uBPDsis would do really odd things - like at one point she left some clothes at my house.  Next few times she stayed I said to her to take them back but she never would.  When I mentioned it in phone calls (only in case she'd forgotten and was looking for them) she said I could have them!  They were neither my size nor style.  I forgot about it, till we changed the room and got rid of the wardrobe.  I asked her what she wanted me to do with them, and she said to just get rid of them.  I'd had them over 2 years at this point!  So I did.  Not long after she asked about them and I reminded her that she told me to get rid of them.  She then got all huffy about it.  But it was weird - because the whole time, she was acting like she was doing me a favour letting me keep her clothes in my wardrobe!  Another time she transferred quite a large sum of money into my account - can't remember why - this was years ago.  It was while she set up a new account or something.  Frankly it was a real pain.  I didn't want her money (I'd always been the higher earner so it was ridiculous, as I didn't have any money worries at that time).  I wanted to keep it separate, so I transferred it into my savings account.  A year or so later I closed that account, so I asked the building society to write a cheque for the amount she had sent, plus appropriate interest for the period for that amount which they did.  I then posted it to her, explaining that I was closing the account, so now seemed a good time to send her back her money, and I hoped she was happy with the interest it had earned (it was quite a high earning interest account).  I deliberately did it as a building society cheque not a personal cheque from my account, as I knew otherwise she just wouldn't cash it.  She accepted it, but complained to my Mum at the time.  My Mum said - what do you expect - your sister doesn't want to be looking after your money for you, but she wouldn't rip you off - of course she'll send you any interest earned.  She wasn't happy about that either.  It was just really annoying, and there were so many instances of this, often involving money - where I would agree to something, even though it was a bit odd, and I couldn't see the point - but she would insist it would be helpful, and then I would regret it because I would be left in this awkward position of being in possession of something of hers which I didn't want to be, and she wouldn't let me give it back.  She used to do it a bit with my Mum too.  I never did understand it - but was always waiting for the day when she would say that she had "given" it to me.  It was really odd.  Don't know if other people have experience of this?  JB
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Barbara Smith

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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 11:01:21 PM »

Wow.  That is really something!  I wonder if other people are going through similar situations as well.  I do think it's a form of manipulation.  I applaud you for continuing on with her.  If it hadn't been such an important object, her inheritance, I could have maybe handled it better. 
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Linda Maria
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 08:23:14 AM »

I'd be interested to hear other people's stories on this.  Way, way back when my uBPDsis would explode occasionally and be unbelievably horrible for no obvious reason, she would often afterwards give me some present  - but of course, never an apology or explanation.  These presents were invariably overpriced things I didn't want, and I used to firmly decline them as I didn't want to feel beholden on top of everything else.  This used to provoke another negative reaction of course, but I was usually past caring at that point.  One time when I was returning from a long haul business trip, and my husband and kids were away, she offered (kindly - I have to admit) to pick me up from the airport - this would have been around 6.00am, and drive me to my home.  It would have taken her about and hour and a half to get to the airport, and I live an hour or so away from her.  It was sweet of her, but to be honest, I was happy to get a work-paid cab home as usual - would have taken 40 mins that time of morning, then just collapse into bed - as I would be jet-lagged. But she insisted so I let her.  It was nice of her, but I then felt obliged to stay up and be sociable when I was absolutely exhausted after a 12 hour flight!  Eventually after a few hours I said I was sorry but I would have to go and lie down for a while, but she was welcome to stay, and I would probably rally and be up and about later.  It really didn't make any sense her coming over, and I could so have done without it, and she seemed a bit put out when I went to bed.  This was often the way with her "nice" gestures - they seemed nice - but were often not really things that were helpful or that I wanted her to do, but it seemed ungrateful to refuse.  I think they were meant genuinely, but she couldn't see that they probably weren't really appropriate.  Quite baffling!  JB
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Barbara Smith

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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2014, 01:08:00 PM »

The more I read on here and in books about BP, the more I'm able to tell myself, "She has a problem and I can choose how to react".  Linda Marie, I'm impressed how you've been able to be firm but still keep contact with your sister.  I'd be interested to hear others on this topic as well.
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Linda Maria
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2014, 07:35:55 AM »

Hi Barbara!  Actually I am pretty much NC with my sister.  Once my Mum died last year she really turned on me and started spreading nasty and frankly weird lies about me.  She has made it very difficult to sort out my Mum's estate and it is still going on, 18 months later.  I have distanced myself from it, and just deal through the estate agents and solicitors.  They can see very clearly what is going on, which stopped me feeling I was going mad.  Before my Mum died, she was always awkward, but bearable, because she lived an hour away, and I hadn't had to live with her for around 28 years.  But after Mum died she completely turned on me.  I've had to be firm with myself about boundaries - but I can't see me ever having a relationship with her again. 
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aubin
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 11:15:03 AM »

Excerpt
This was often the way with her "nice" gestures - they seemed nice - but were often not really things that were helpful or that I wanted her to do, but it seemed ungrateful to refuse.  I think they were meant genuinely, but she couldn't see that they probably weren't really appropriate.

So interesting to read this as this is an aspect of my pwBPD that has been confusing to me. A few years ago I was shopping with my sister (who is either uBPD or has serious fleas due to our being raised by our uBPD mother). It was the holidays and we were both shopping for gifts for relatives. We were in a shoe store and, despite the fact that I was supposed to be buying gifts for others and not myself, I decided to buy a nice pair of shoes I saw. The shoes were expensive but I decided to make it my holiday gift to myself. I rarely buy things for myself so when I do, I feel okay splurging. When I'm about to pay for the shoes, my sister jumps ahead and hands the cashier her credit card. I decline her offer to pay but she insists and the cashier takes her card. It was an incredibly awkward moment. At the time, my sister was not doing too well financially while I was doing much better. Plus the shoes were pretty expensive. She beamed at me for the rest of the day, clearly proud of herself for giving me this "gift." I felt so weird and awkward and uncomfortable. When I returned home, I wrote out a check and send it to her in the mail. She didn't acknowledge receipt of the check but did cash it.

This happened a few times: she bought me a ridiculously expensive wallet for Christmas, tried to take me out to dinner at a very expensive restaurant, etc.

I think her intentions were good but she honestly just didn't see how the situation was awkward at best and manipulative at worst. I think it's a problem of boundaries and not being able to tell what ways of interacting with people are appropriate. To be fair, I've struggled with this same issue as well.

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Linda Maria
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 11:33:14 AM »

Hi aubin!  Interesting to hear you have the same experience with the gifts.  I always found it odd, because it would usually be something that really wasn't appropriate, though it would probably be expensive.  We have very different tastes and styles, and sometimes - if my birthday was coming up - she would suggest something - and I would genuinely not want it so I would say it wasn't really my taste and I'd end up not wearing it etc. so please don't waste her money on that, and she was clearly not happy about it.  I think it was a form of control.  Same at Christmas - we would agree we would spend a certain amount on each other, and she would always buy something extra, and it was really annoying.  In the end I always brought a couple of spare presents for her in case but it was silly, especially as a lot of the time she wasn't working, or was quite low paid for a while, and it just wasn't necessary.  Funnily enough she was never overly generous with my kids - she was not one of those doting aunties who was always spoiling them - it would mainly be me and my Mum she did it with.  It's funny because I have a male friend who is very generous - but with basic things - whenever he comes over to see us he comes loaded with wine, beer, chocolates, silly things for the kids.  I know he gets a lot of the stuff from his sisters who work in a big shop and get lots of free stuff, but it's always so nice.  We rarely give him anything, though we always feed him well and put him up.  But I never even think about it - it's just natural.  But with my uBPDsis it never felt quite right, and it never made sense.
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aubin
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 12:23:03 PM »

Excerpt
Funnily enough she was never overly generous with my kids - she was not one of those doting aunties who was always spoiling them - it would mainly be me and my Mum she did it with.

Linda Maria, it's the same way with my sister and our mother. It's this weird dynamic of giving/getting inappropriate gifts for birthdays and holidays while the kids are virtually ignored. I think of it as a kind of circle of pseudo-validation. I think my sister believes that she is doing something truly kind and generous by giving these outsized gifts to me and to our mother but really it's about getting us to return the "generosity" in kind and thus validating her. Between my mother and my sister is a very tight cycle of validation with piles of gifts, expensive vacations, and fancy dinners. I find myself constantly trying to deflect, which I guess makes me the weak link in the triangle of validation.

A truly generous person would be giving to the kids as well and not concerned with really expensive things or with receiving anything in return, as you described with your friend who seems to be a truly giving person. I must admit that after my son was born, I was feeling a bit ruffled because my sister barely acknowledged him but then took my mother on a cruise just a few weeks later.
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Panda39
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 01:48:17 PM »

I see this behavior with my SO's uBPDexw.  She has been evicted 3 times in the last 4 years (for lack of payment) has couch surfed in between and is now living in a hotel but sent D18 to Europe last year ($15,000) and private liberal arts college this year (she paid $30,000 of the tuition) and has sent D14 to camp out of state ($5,000 each year).  We have no idea where she is getting all the money to do these things but are happy she is at least doing something for her kids. 

But I have always felt this is about her not about the kids.  It feels like "look at what a superfantastic mom I am!"  and "I have sacrificed for you and you will owe me" everything comes with conditions.  There always seems to be some other motivation besides simply being a good mom and doing what is best for her kids.

She is a mom that fluctuates between neglectful (never able to do the things she should do) or indulgent (throw money at it)
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Linda Maria
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2014, 08:53:03 AM »

hi there!  Reassuring in some ways to hear other people have similar experiences.  Her attitude to my kids has really shocked me.  When she turned really nasty last year, she accused me of having said that she couldn't see my kids until July.  This was in the May - I had never said any such thing, in fact I had been inviting her over to my house regularly precisely to see the kids, and she would never come.  The reason I was at my Mum's house that day was because she wouldn't come to me, although the kids were on half-term so we could have done the paperwork (sorting out my late Mum's estate) then spent time with them.  Bizarrely - she accused me of this in front of my daughter - who I had brought with me so she could see her!  so - untrue and weird.  I had previously asked her if she would like to come to my daughter's concert in July but she had not confirmed.  She accused me of this again in an email the next day, and I replied that this was completely untrue, and that even if she apparently didn't want to see me, she was welcome to come over and take the kids out.  She never replied to that, and shortly after started pretending that she doesn't get email any more!  She sent them both nice birthday cards in October, with some money.  At Christmas she never even sent them a card!  She later put in some communication that I was stopping her seeing them and that I had stopped them writing to her.  I had never done any such thing.  She has never asked to see them, and made no attempt to contact them other than one weird text to my daughter where she made some untrue comment about me.  I did change my daughter's mobile number after that because I was not happy about uBPDsis trying to drag the kids into it.  She has no kids or I assume she would know that this is not an acceptable thing to do.  So she clearly has no real feeling for the kids or she would have bitten my hand off on the various occasions that I did ask her over to see them.  Of course - now - after over a year of real nastiness and madness, I wouldn't want her anywhere near them, but only because I know she would badmouth me and it would be really disturbing for them.  So much for the loving auntie!  I was really upset that she would even think of dragging them into it, or trying to use them against me - what a despicable way to behave.  Unbelievable!  JB
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ABCD1234

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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2014, 11:45:48 AM »

I have a long story that you can look back on if you read my older posts, but I got this from my unBPD sister after I blocked her on Facebook for smearing me.

"I didn't realize that I had been blocked.  I thought you pulled your account from all for privacy because of your troubles.  When I found out today,  I was hurt.  I spoke to my counselor about it.  She thinks (after all she has heard over the last 10 years) that I have put up with enough from you.

Please do not try to contact me again--ever--for any reason.

No more pretend apologies or ovations.  No more false birthday wishes or invitations to place myself at your mercy--for you have none.  You are beyond callous.  You are cold, cruel, selfish and downright mean.  As long as I have known you, you have been that way.  You even were as a child.

My therapist says you "piss" on me (her words not mine) because you are bitter and unhappy with YOU and your ___ty choices. Start pissing on somebody.  Goodbye."

I have italicized a section that, I believe, sums up the whole gift/manipulation thing.  I don't give gifts so that I can hold them over people's heads. I don't usually give expensive gifts. I usually give MEANINGFUL gifts. She gives expensive gifts.  She gave her son a car. She lent my sister $10,000 and gave her a washer and dryer (and then held it over her head in another cruel and awful email that she sent to my mother, my oldest sister and myself, detailing all of our shortcomings).  I believe this is why BPD's give gifts and do favors.  What do you guys think? 

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Barbara Smith

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« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2014, 11:02:19 PM »

I'm finally getting a chance to read through all of these.  Very interesting.  ABCD1234, that email sounds so similar to the emails and messages I have received from my sister.  The gift thing has been one of the most confusing things in my situation.  Sometimes I wish I had just kept the painting and then she would believe she had something over my head and would be able to speak to me in a more happy and confident way.  That I wouldn't be manipulated just made her more mad at me.  So I feel like my choices were a "happy" fake relationship or this depressing monotone she speaks to me in that I can't take anymore.  So now we're NC.  I would like to get back to a friendship with her, but I don't know if that's possible or how to get there if it is.
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