What issues do you bring - non BPD?

[Klarity Kwest]

I am curious if there is any common denominator for people who are in relationships with people who display symptoms like BPD. Are there personality types, so to speak, that are attracted to people who may be borderline? While I have never been diagnosed with any clinical issues I definitely bring my own issues to this relationship.

I'm just curious what other people here think of themselves. I will start with myself.

My issues:

Abandonment issues (my biological mother gave us up when I was 5)

Doubts about my loveableNess

Lack of confidence in my abilities

which leads to

Lack of motivation to pursue my dreams

Short temper

I yell and curse when I'm mad

Difficulty maintaining/pursuing healthy friendships

Highly critical Dad (now passed)

I know I have many lovable, positive qualities. But I just wanted to start a list of areas that I have challenges in. I know this site is supposed to be about the BPD partners yet I'm curious about this issue. I feel like the only way I'm going to get my head above water in this relationship is to look at myself with genuine eyes. And not just blame things on my partner or myself.

Please share any thoughts you may have about this.

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[White_Lily]

Hi Klarity Kwest,

What a great topic! You are addressing a very important point.

I certainly had (and still have) some self-esteem issues, but only in certain areas in my life i.e. when it comes to relationship with SO. One of the things that attracted me to my BPD bf is his ability to make me feel like I am the best of the best.  That boosted my self-esteem a lot.  All the way throughout our long-term relationship, his attitude about what he thinks of me never changed, although in some occasions, he will be quick to through few nasty criticism here and there, mainly about silly stuff i.e. how long it takes me to dry my hair

I do lean to believe that our emotional insecurity is attracting us to BPDs. From what I have read already here, it seems as if it is a common thread. Would be very interesting to see what others think.

Cheers.

[maxsterling]

Shyness.  But I am much less shy than I was 20 years ago.  It's mostly in my past, but now it is the memories of being shy that sometimes makes me hesitant.  I'm not sure if that makes sense.  But I think it has kept me in this relationship though bad times because I have memories of how hard it was for me to meet people, and I am not ready to give up on what I am familiar with. 

I'd also say abandonment issues.  But it's not like a fear of abandonment, it feels like nostalgia for the past.  I don't want to have meaningless relationships.  I never was one to feel comfortable dating if I didn't see a future with someone, mainly because I know years later I may look back with regret.  I'm the type of person that feels sad if they tear down or remodel a building that I have memories of as a child.  I think it affects this relationship because I know that should it end, I would have uncomfortable feelings years down the road. 

I also don't like the feeling I have when I think I have hurt someone.  And pwBPD are pretty good at playing the victim.  This makes it hard to me to say "no" sometimes, when saying no would probably be very healthy for me and for the relationship.  It also means I tend to let people cross my boundaries. 

And I also think my mom has many BPD characteristics, especially when she was younger.  I'm not sure how that affects me now other than not having a good role model for a healthy relationship, but it may play into the issues I mentioned above.  But I know it must play some role, because my older brother is married to a dBPD, my sister is married to a man who is quite clearly NPD, I dated an NPD/BPD before my fiancé, and my younger brother is married to a woman who clearly has her own anger issues. 

[thereishope]

Very open, trusting, caring, naive to the "bad stuff out there", insecure, abandonment issues, critical parents as a child and therefore very critical of myself as an adult... .possible co-dependent... .;iving beneath a mask I created to protect myself from hurt/judgment... .just starting to be completely honest with myself after much injury from BPD h ?  I'm sure there's more... .

[Sugarlily]

I share a lot in common with you maxsterling. I was quite badly bullied at school and so I have always been very shy socially, although confident at work. Sometimes I feel socially awkward and as a result need to have a lot of time alone; I'm drawn to more solitary pursuits.

I also did not have good role models growing up, my dad has always been highly critical, he is very narcissistic and throughout my childhood raged at me unpredictably. One of his sisters is BPD and the other codependent in a very abusive relationship. As a result I don't really know what a healthy relationship looks like and I am used to extreme people. This is something I've been working though in therapy.

I think people with BPD do pick up on esteem issues and I expect we accept them because we have our own issues. Good topic.

[survivalmode27]

I too have a very critical father. I have tried to please him most my life and failed. My mother says he brags about my accomplishments and the person I am to other people. But he has yet to tell me that I have done anything well or that he loves me. I think that is what brought me to my BPDh.

[byfaith]

survivalmode27 and Sugarlily

I have many of the issues that you both mention. I am not shy, really, but I had parents who were very critical of me.

They divorced when I was 6. I am 50 now. I was always sensitive and took things personally.

I don't blame my parents I'm just saying that has much to do with how I am wired. I'm not afraid of people so I don't know why I am so "afraid" of the back lashes of my wife if I bring up a sensitive topic. I guess the roots of all this runs deep into why we behave the way we do.

[bpbreakout]

My father treated me really well and was a very kind, strong and together person. My mother had BPD traits and always seemed to be off the planet or going round in circles. Two older sisters were subject to a lot of verbal crap from my Mum and much worse off than me. Dad stood by Mum through the years but obviously got frustrated being around her.  It wasn't their fault but I was brought up to be the caretaker & I think susceptible to FOG & tending to put others befoire me. I was living in another country & just split up from another long term relationship when I met BPDw & ripe for the picking. Being in another country and distance from old friends and familiy brought it's own set of issues though didn't realise it at the time. BPDw has had some major FOO issues. She has been quite unstable over the years and much worse than my mother ever was. I'm reasonably clear now over what I bring to the table and working on it. It's lifting a lot of my anger and frustration. 

[123Phoebe]

Ooo, I like this; let's talk about us

I have a few narcissistic traits, perfectionism being one of them, in the sense that even making a typo gives me a little icky feeling for a few.  Or when I edit a post and the margins shift, I'll go back and backspace to try and straighten them out

I like to be right; don't like the feeling of being wrong.  That flush that goes through straight to my head, blech.

Waste time. 

I can go off on a tangent about something I'm really into.  Pretty good at noticing the glazed over eyes though.

I might get 10 compliments, but that one negative can bring me down more than the positives bring me up.

Domineering

Ruminate

I'm messy and disorganized in certain areas of my life (house).

I'm a people pleaser.

Dad had schizophrenia and was a super deep thinker.  He apologized for it, saying that I had to raise myself because of it.  Told me he was proud of me, but a thinker he would remain.  I take after him in the thinking too hard department, to the point of wanting to do that more than be with people socially sometimes.

Mom has BPD traits.  Thankfully, (because of this website!) I'm not deep thinking about her anymore   But, I do take after her in many ways; tone of voice being one of them.  That has actually helped me understand her more though, because my tone doesn't = intent.  I don't mean for someone to feel bad by tone or the delivery.  So, I give her a little leeway in this now and listen for her intent.

Oh boy, there's more... .

[Samuel S.]

This is a very interesting question. Yes, we all bring our issues or our history into any relationship; however, it all depends if we have dealt with them thoroughly so that we are not triggered when a similar situation takes place again.

My issues were dealing with my parents arguing so very much when I was younger. In fact, as a toddler, I rebeled by not eating! Then, my grandmother flew from the midwest to take care of me by encouraging me to eat, and thank God for her doing that! Nevertheless, the arguing just continued. I resolved way back when not to argue and to do my best to please. Of course, that can't always happen, but I have done my best not to argue.

So now, I stay away from arguing as much as possible and keep my mouth shut. The consequence is that when my BPDw becomes verbally abusive with me and neglectful of me, I bundled up emotionally like a little kid, being angry inside and taking it out on myself very often, like every day.

[waverider]

Using rescuing as a means of self validation. Which comes from insecurities leading to lack of ability to impose your own boundaries.

Sometimes its even a need to be rescued.

So when you first meet a pwBPD you are both "victims" rescuing each other from the big bad world.>>Quick bonding and living in a world of delusions.

When it all goes wrong not only do you not have the tools to assert yourself, you  have reinforced the fact that you don't, so its a long climb back to find a strong self.

[123Phoebe]

I do lean to believe that our emotional insecurity is attracting us to BPDs. From what I have read already here, it seems as if it is a common thread. Would be very interesting to see what others think.

Cheers.

I agree with this.  I also believe that emotional inquisitiveness plays a huge role.  Perhaps from feeling insecure with the surroundings during childhood?

[itgirl]

Oh this is fun!

I would have thought a lot more people would say co-dependent.  I read these threads and always spot that.

I had a great childhood and am successful.  However I am such a people pleaser!  All the way to the MAX.  Which makes me co-dependent.   I use to just visit this board so that I can have a healthy and strong relationship with my partner.  However lately I have started to focus more on myself.  Yesterday I went as far as to get Co-Dependent no more.  Now I just have to start reading and practicing it.

GAME ON! 

[waverider]

Oh this is fun!

I would have thought a lot more people would say co-dependent.  I read these threads and always spot that.

I had a great childhood and am successful.  However I am such a people pleaser!  All the way to the MAX.  Which makes me co-dependent.   I use to just visit this board so that I can have a healthy and strong relationship with my partner.  However lately I have started to focus more on myself.  Yesterday I went as far as to get Co-Dependent no more.  Now I just have to start reading and practicing it.

GAME ON! 

I think co dependency often develops during course of RS.

[maxsterling]

Waverider - that's a good point.  I read information about co-dependency or talk to other people who describe themselves as codependent, and I don't feel like I can really relate.  My BPD fiance, when raging, will accuse me of looking for women to "rescue" or control.  I think she says that because of spending her whole life in 12-step programs, has labeled me as a co-dependent, and that is what co-dependents do.  And she knows my previous girlfriend was a woman with serious issues (a personality disorder), and assumes I volunteered for that kind of relationship in as a means of trying to fix her.  When raging, she accuses me of having some kind of rescue fantasies. 

And nothing could be further from the truth.  Both my current and previous relationship i would have stayed the hell away from if I knew what was coming.  I don't want to fix anyone.  I hate it.  I REALLY HATE IT.  My ideal partner would be one who is capable of taking care of her own needs.  My "codependent" traits are coping mechanisms for how to deal with a situation once I am already in it.  I don't want to always cook for or clean up after my fiance.  I don't want to be having to force her to go to therapy or have her completely dependent on me for everything.  I HATE THIS ROLE.  But, I enter into it because I fell in love with this woman before I came into this role, and I stay in this role because that is the easiest method to obtain peace and quiet for the time being.  In the case of both my previous and current relationship, I thought I was seeking out women who were strong and independent.  And both were on the surface!  My fiance has traveled the world by herself, lived in foreign countries by herself, lived by herself, all qualities that told me she was capable of taking care of herself.  I've passed by countless other women who seemed too needy.  And two months after moving in with me, she suddenly needs me for everything.  That's when the "codependence" started. 

[sweetheart]

Poor self-image/ lack of confidence even though high achiever/ serious issues around disordered eating in my teens and twenties

Rescuer

Issues around control

Depression and anxiety

Spent 10 years in psychoanalytic psychotherapy re above yet I still managed to 'marry my father' and nearly repeat the chaos of my parents marriage until I found this forum and started to walk out of the FOG and use what I learnt about myself and my FOO with my therapist! Nearly forgot though

[Klarity Kwest]

Wow I am so happy so many people replied!

I think I should have said codependent about myself for sure.

It's not something I would have thought about myself, but the more I have looked into understanding my roll in my relationship the more I realize it is true.

Also, I am very defensive.

I learned this after a few years of therapy. It was not easy to accept this about myself, but the more I realize how true it is, and the more I try to stop defending myself when I feel I'm being misunderstood, the better I am able to defuse situations that may I have become arguments in the past.

I think I also have something about an appropriate boundaries. And I'm talking about emotional, or even intellectual ways. I'm not talking about anything sexual with boundaries, but in other ways like how someone feels, or even what someone is thinking.

I found myself saying to my partner the other day that I don't feel that I have emotional autonomy with him. for example, if I'm in a bad mood and he comes home instead of him being able to say, hey honey what's matter? The fact that I'm in a bad mood becomes his bad mood and now I'm dealing with a bad mood and a partner who is in a bad mood instead of being able to just have my emotional autonomy. I don't know I don't think this applies with other relationships in my life, but maybe it doesn't some way. I know I need to start looking into that more. And in speaking about emotional autonomy with him, I realize, similarly with being codependent, I need to learn to have emotional autonomy for myself. That is, not to rely on someone else to "give it to me", but to learn to maintain my own equanimity regardless of what someone else may be feeling.

So being able to do that without being indifferent, aloof, or emotionally unavailable is a challenge. In past relationships I would just disconnect emotionally when things were not going well. I think being given to a foster home by my mother at age five probably has a lot to do with disconnecting emotionally from a situation that is painful.

But at the same time I find that I am overly emotionally dependent on what someone else may be feeling, thinking, saying,  or doing.

So I decided that I want to try a few things. Simple cognitive tasks, almost like slogans I can tell myself when I'm starting to get caught up in something I don't want to be caught up in. Like an argument.

Do:

Focus on ~ what I'M ~

Needing, feeling, wanting, thinking

And Don't:

Focus on ~ what someone Else is ~

Needing, feeling, wanting, thinking

This is not to say I would not be compassionate, empathetic, understanding, or to try to hear someone out. But when I find myself in arguments, that's probably another defense mechanism I have learned, to be argumentative, I want to be able to defuse things. So I'm learning that if I stop being a defensive person and always try to fight for what I think is right for me, if I can learn to just OWN what I'm feeling, to know what I know, and to let it go, and breathe in and breath out. I think that will help me.

I am so grateful for all of your replies.

[guitarguy09]

Waverider - that's a good point.  I read information about co-dependency or talk to other people who describe themselves as codependent, and I don't feel like I can really relate.  My BPD fiance, when raging, will accuse me of looking for women to "rescue" or control.  I think she says that because of spending her whole life in 12-step programs, has labeled me as a co-dependent, and that is what co-dependents do.  And she knows my previous girlfriend was a woman with serious issues (a personality disorder), and assumes I volunteered for that kind of relationship in as a means of trying to fix her.  When raging, she accuses me of having some kind of rescue fantasies. 

And nothing could be further from the truth.  Both my current and previous relationship i would have stayed the hell away from if I knew what was coming.  I don't want to fix anyone.  I hate it.  I REALLY HATE IT.  My ideal partner would be one who is capable of taking care of her own needs.  My "codependent" traits are coping mechanisms for how to deal with a situation once I am already in it.  I don't want to always cook for or clean up after my fiance.  I don't want to be having to force her to go to therapy or have her completely dependent on me for everything.  I HATE THIS ROLE.  But, I enter into it because I fell in love with this woman before I came into this role, and I stay in this role because that is the easiest method to obtain peace and quiet for the time being.  In the case of both my previous and current relationship, I thought I was seeking out women who were strong and independent.  And both were on the surface!  My fiance has traveled the world by herself, lived in foreign countries by herself, lived by herself, all qualities that told me she was capable of taking care of herself.  I've passed by countless other women who seemed too needy.  And two months after moving in with me, she suddenly needs me for everything.  That's when the "codependence" started. 

You hit the nail right on the head! I was also seeking out someone who was strong who was not afraid to take the initiative. Unfortunately, once you get past that "outer hardness" there was a person inside that was very, very sensitive and that reacts poorly to nearly any circumstance that isn't ideal. I love my uBPDw very much and there are a lot of good aspects to our marriage (her family is great and we have a great toddler together), if you get the "Mr. Hyde" part of her personality it's pure hell until Dr. Jekyll shows back up.

I would definitely label myself as being emotionally insecure. I have overly critical parents who zapped whatever confidence I was supposed to build up as a kid. Even now, and especially with my uBPDw, they question my decision making. I never really got the sense that they trusted me with any of my own decisions.

[bobcat2014]

Codependent people pleaser. I have some NPD traits I struggle with.

[joshbjoshb]

Great, great topic!

I agree that perhaps us being people pleaser is what attracts us to BPD people. Did I get out of that? I think I made very good strides, and much thanks to my narcissistic boss yes, I have one BPD at home and one NPD at work. How much more lucky can you get?

But I am moving in the right direction, I believe - or at least hope. 

[thereishope]

Oh this is fun!

I would have thought a lot more people would say co-dependent.  I read these threads and always spot that.

I had a great childhood and am successful.  However I am such a people pleaser!  All the way to the MAX.  Which makes me co-dependent.   I use to just visit this board so that I can have a healthy and strong relationship with my partner.  However lately I have started to focus more on myself.  Yesterday I went as far as to get Co-Dependent no more.  Now I just have to start reading and practicing it.

GAME ON! 

That sounds like a book I need to read... .Thanks for sharing it! 

[waverider]

Codependent people pleaser. I have some NPD traits I struggle with.

Bit of a contradiction there, could you expand on that a bit more? You may be misinterpreting something there

[123Phoebe]

I do lean to believe that our emotional insecurity is attracting us to BPDs. From what I have read already here, it seems as if it is a common thread. Would be very interesting to see what others think.

Cheers.

I agree with this.  I also believe that emotional inquisitiveness plays a huge role.  Perhaps from feeling insecure with the surroundings during childhood?

I wanted to expand on this a bit from a thought that popped in my head earlier... .

From the time I was little, I knew something wasn't right with my mom.  She could be so mean and angry!  I didn't want to be like her.  I became ultra interested in different ways of being.  She attached to me in such a way though, that straying was not allowed.  I learned how to become her in a way, in order to get my needs met.  But I wasn't her, I'm not her, but that curiosity has remained... .

Hmm, not sure what that means exactly or if it has to mean anything.  Can anyone relate?

[michel71]

GREAT TOPIC!

Hmm... .let's see... .

Codependent

Insecure

Felt unlovable at times

Had previous relationships with women who were sexually repressed so I was desperate to be considered desirable

Mother had BPD traits and was definitely a narcissist and emotionally abusive/neglectful

Rescuer

Fixer

[takingandsending]

Ummm ... .shy, very functional/successful outside but very low esteem inside (esp. socially and insecure about my looks), hate blame and criticism (which is very funny considering who I married), recovering perfectionist although the inner and outer critic still comes like an uninvited guest to the party, rescuer. My mom was likely BPD or traits thereof and Dad was emotionally withdrawn. Both loving but with lots of strings. Boundaries were not accepted. Weakness was not accepted in FOO. I had an insane need to be right when I was younger. I once shoplifted a $2 refrigerator door magnet and got caught. I was so terrified of what my parents thought of me. And they were really decent and kind, not blaming, but I couldn't admit I had done it. A lot of shame. I found my perfect match with my uBPDw as she has surfaced every last one of my fears as expertly as a psychoanalyst.

[vortex of confusion]

From the time I was little, I knew something wasn't right with my mom.  She could be so mean and angry!  I didn't want to be like her.  I became ultra interested in different ways of being.  She attached to me in such a way though, that straying was not allowed.  I learned how to become her in a way, in order to get my needs met.  But I wasn't her, I'm not her, but that curiosity has remained... .

Hmm, not sure what that means exactly or if it has to mean anything.  Can anyone relate?

I can relate! My dad knew something was wrong with my mother. I am the youngest and I am separated from the older 3 by about 5 years. By the time I came along, my dad knew that my mother was not a good mother so he took me under his wing and kept me away from her as much as possible. Because I didn't see all of my mother's junk all of the time, I didn't develop some of the same problems that my siblings did. Now that I am an adult, my mother tends to glob onto me and dump all of her problems on me. She will go on and on about how much she hates my dad. Like you, I have a difficult time breaking free from her because of the way that she has attached herself to me. My biggest fear in life is being like her but I realize that I have become her to a degree because I am unhappy in my marriage. Of course, she encourages it by saying things, "Oh, I know what you are going to do. You are going to stay with him for the kids and just put up with it. That is what I have done for years." She loves to tell me that I am just like her. It is maddening because I am nothing like her. My dad and I have talked and the truth of the matter is that I have married my mother.

I have my own host of problems. I overthink things. I am insecure even though I know that I am pretty friggin' awesome. Part of that insecurity comes from being told by my parents that I need to stop being proud of myself because it comes across as arrogant and upsets my siblings. I have that same dynamic with my spouse in that I try to keep myself down because if I do too much or do too well, he gets upset and jealous. So, I tend to try to play stupid. I lack carry through and get easily discouraged. I don't take criticism well. I take things too personally and I tend to be a bit of a perfectionist. Oh, and I am codependent but I have always hidden from that fact by saying that I just really like to help people. 

[thereishope]

Using rescuing as a means of self validation. Which comes from insecurities leading to lack of ability to impose your own boundaries.

Sometimes its even a need to be rescued.

So when you first meet a pwBPD you are both "victims" rescuing each other from the big bad world.>>Quick bonding and living in a world of delusions.

When it all goes wrong not only do you not have the tools to assert yourself, you  have reinforced the fact that you don't, so its a long climb back to find a strong self.

Perfect wording for what I'm now living... . 

[thereishope]

I have my own host of problems. I overthink things. I am insecure even though I know that I am pretty friggin' awesome... .I lack carry through and get easily discouraged. I don't take criticism well. I take things too personally and I tend to be a bit of a perfectionist. Oh, and I am codependent but I have always hidden from that fact by saying that I just really like to help people.  

Wow, I could have written this... .I have "hidden from that fact by saying that I just really like to help people" too... .and "I'm an encourager!"  LOL  

[tayana]

I grew up with a NPD/BPD mother.  I'm really not sure which fits her more, but everything was always about her.  Appearances were everything to her.  We always had to have the best we could afford.  She was highly critical of everyone and everything and nothing was ever quite good enough for her.  I was always trying to be perfect.  In school, I tried to get the best grades because I wanted her to say I'd done well, but usually I got comments like, "what did your friend get, and why didn't you get the same if it was better."  I became a people pleaser because it was the only way to stop the criticism.  I became involved in a lot of things I didn't really like, and engaged in a lot of passive-aggressive behaviors because I had a lot of anger, hurt and sadness inside that I couldn't express.  My father wasn't really emotionally available.  I loved him and loved spending time with him, but we didn't really talk about emotions and he would always tell me to just take what my mom said with a grain of salt cause I knew how she was.  Currently, I have no contact with my parents because I can't handle dealing with them and dealing with my BPD partner at the same time.

I struggle with depression/anxiety and low self esteem.  One of the things that attracted me to my partner was that she thought I was beautiful and amazing.  My parents never said things like that to me and I felt unattractive because my mother constantly criticized my weight and appearance.  I had a lot of body image issues as a teen.  My partner at least made me feel loved and worthwhile at least until her BPD traits started to come out.  I realized that I'd gotten involved with someone very like my mother.

I get very defensive because I don't feel listened to.  My parents never listened to me.  If I was venting about something my mother rushed in to take care of it and play the hero, so I started not asking for help and trying to deal with everything myself.  I try really hard to do things correctly and am really hard myself when I fail.  To me, asking for help is a sign of weakness.  I learned very early I had to depend on myself for everything.

I have a hard time talking about and dealing with my own feelings, but I am compelled to try to fix those around me.  I didn't want to be like my mother, so I did everything I could to be helpful and good.  I find myself doing a lot of rescuing of my children and my partner instead of letting them make mistakes.  It's really hard to let anyone around me suffer.

I can't say no.

I am insecure and need validation.  I like to hear compliments and crave them.  I seek approval a lot.  I've always wanted to hear my mother say she is proud of me, but I never did.  In the same way, I want to hear others say that... .my boss, my partner, etc.  The approval seeking causes issues with my partner because she is also highly critical and always finds fault.

[Moselle]

Ooo, I like this; let's talk about us

I have a few narcissistic traits, perfectionism being one of them, in the sense that even making a typo gives me a little icky feeling for a few.  Or when I edit a post and the margins shift, I'll go back and backspace to try and straighten them out

I like to be right; don't like the feeling of being wrong.  That flush that goes through straight to my head, blech.

I can go off on a tangent about something I'm really into.  Pretty good at noticing the glazed over eyes though.

I'm messy and disorganized in certain areas of my life (house).

Oh boy, there's more... .

123Phoebe, this is hilarious !

I can see my self in there too.

I'm sensitive to others.

Extremely intuitive and perceptive.

Generous

Kind and thoughtful.

I'm learning to be more assertive in this relationship, so I claim that.

I'm a very good dad to my three girls.

A good teacher. I can hold the attention of a room full of people

Extrovert.

I'm administratively challenged. Tax, bills, any of this boring stuff. I'm allergic to it actually, and outsource ALL of it.

I think I can do and achieve anything.

Mum was/is BPD/Narcissistic (still trying to work out which)

Freud believed we select someone like our oppositely sexed parent, but it has been updated to account for the theory that we select a partner similar to the parent (male or female) with which we have 'unfinished business'. That is the parent that resulted in any gaps in our childhood emotional development. In a nutshell, I selected someone like my mother, who was domineering, critical, perfectionistic, BPD/Narcissistic, self absorbed and co-dependent. I wish I hadn't, but then perhaps it's an opportunity to develop the bits which were underdeveloped in me as a child.