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Author Topic: Setting Financial Boundaries during a time of Stress  (Read 467 times)
Inquisitive1
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« on: August 06, 2014, 05:49:43 PM »

My dBPDw is about to return to work after a month-long leave of absence. Her stress level is increasing as we near the day and I'm trying to be supportive.

At the same time, I am trying to get our financials together. She has run up quite a few credit card bills. I keep asking for a complete picture, but the information comes in dribs and drabs. This frustrates me because it wouldn't be much effort to get me the information I need. At some point, I'm going to have to set boundaries on this. I will not continue to co-mingle funds with someone who is financially irresponsible.

For now, because she is facing major stress about work, I guess I'll try to summarize the information I do have and ask her for 1-2 high priority items at a time.

I guess that's the right balance. I'd love to hear the experiences of others who've tried to improve fiscal things with their BPD SO.
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 06:34:06 PM »

Good topic. 

My fiancé has over 100k in student loan debt.  She is at least aware of her debts, but gets emotionally overwhelmed when thinking about money.  She's just starting a job, and with the income, I would assume she will be paying a huge chunk in student loan payments every month.  I'm sure that will set her off. 

I'm responsible with money in the sense I don't recklessly spend on things I can't afford, but I think I lack skills to help anyone else out.  I know little about money managing, investing, re-financing, or any of that.  yet, my fiancé expects me to know everything.  She tends to buy stuff on impulse, and return it.  She's spent money on vacations rather than pay off her debt.  And despite her claims that her family never supports her financially, she's gotten much more support from her family than I have mine, and she has nothing left to show of it.  I'm terrified of mixing money with her.  Upon getting married, I think the best course would be to keep our finances completely separate so that her bill collectors can't look at combined income and come after her for more.  We've already talked about that a little, and that was also the advice given to her by a financial expert - to never file taxes jointly, and to maintain separate accounts in addition to a joint account.

About the only thing I can suggest for you is to avoid dealing with it all at once.  What you suggested sounds reasonable to me.  Prioritize, and then piece together what you can on your own. 
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 12:31:17 AM »

In light of her stress about going back to work, I think prioritizing as you said, asking for one thing at a time - maybe the least difficult thing for her to provide at first - using a SET approach, is a good idea. 

Think seriously about what your boundary is because I know from experience that someone who spends like crazy, especially while you are distracted by additional BPD behaviors, can bring you down before you realize what is happening.   

I’m not really a good example of what to do in this situation…more one of what not to do.  I showed him what was happening on paper, talked with him, asked him, and pleaded with him.  None of that made any difference.  He just kept right on spending.   In retrospect, had I known what I know now, here is what I would have done as soon as I realized there was a problem instead of expecting him to change simply because it would have been the right thing to do:

1. I would have immediately set a boundary:  My own hard-earned income would not have covered his runaway spending habits or stood in the gap because of them either.  If he did not have enough money to pay his credit card bills, then he would have had to suffer the consequences of being called by bill collectors, had a bad credit rating, filed for bankruptcy, etc.   I would not have given in. 

2. I would have maintained my own separate checking and savings accounts, but would have had another separate account just for household expenses, in which each of us contributed 50% or at least a fair percentage of income.  I think that a couple can accomplish much by sharing a joint account with combined income, but it takes two people working toward a common goal for that to happen. 

At least one thing I did right:  Never, never, never share a joint credit card account with someone who does not have self-control over his spending habits.   

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sweetheart
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2014, 04:35:34 AM »

Hello Inquisitive1,

Giving your wife a bit of breathing space to return to work sounds good.

Our situation is tightly controlled by me, we have a combined bill and household expenses account. Then we each have a separate account where we get the same amount of money each week for ourselves. We have tried every which way with money and it became quickly evident that my dBPDh cannot manage his money, and will spend whatever is there until there is nothing left, so after many discussions we agreed that I would manage the money.

Like flowerpath said NO JOINT CREDIT CARDS unless of course money is no object, but even then I suspect that a pwBPD might still be able to cause a problem with this. Smiling (click to insert in post)

My boundary with my dBPDh is that once his own weekly money is gone then there is no more until the next due date and I have been really consistent with this otherwise we would be in debt and we're not. Yes it is controlling and somewhat parental but it works for us.

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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 08:42:48 AM »

Thanks y'all helpful posts. I do want to set up a system where she and I have our own accounts for spending. Hoping to get to the bank today about that. I'm not quite ready to separate our funds.

In the last 6 months she has handed over all bill paying to me and acknowledged that she has not managed her money well. So I have some optimism that she may be able to move with me to a new system that would facilitate her getting her spending in control. She has indicated she'd like to get someone to help her with debt management and do it independently of me. But, your points are well taken, there's a good chance she will continue to make bad choices. I can't control that, I can only prepare for that.

I'll try to get her to the bank to today to make some changes on our accounts. I actually took these three days off in part so we could do that. I think I may mention that to her. But, I'll give her a pass this week.

Before long though, I'll have to come up with a boundary on this and tell her about it. Any additional comments welcome. I'll likely post updates here as I could use support managing this.
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 09:48:32 AM »

We didn't get to the bank last Thursday nor Saturday. She just got fired/quit and she's stressed. So, I'm giving a couple more days.

This Thursday I am going to the bank with or without her and setting up my own accounts with separate money. I'll continue to put money in our shared account to pay the bills for now because all the bill payment is set up in that, but that's it.

I also have to wait to hear if she's getting a severance package. And she doesn't want me involved, but I'm concerned she'll make bad decisions... .guess I'll have to let that go. It is out of my control. It seems too disrespectful to insist on being involved.
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2014, 10:21:41 AM »

Just logged into our joint account and found hundreds of dollars in online shopping. This after we've both agreed to tighten our belts b/c she lost her job. Called her and she denied knowledge of it but agreed to call the company. I don't believe her.

I may need to up the timeline on separation of money. Really angry right now!
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Crumbling
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2014, 12:25:05 PM »



Sounds like parental control is necessary, as suggested above.  We've not been successful at finding a system that works for us yet.  At this point, there is no money for either of us, so the point is mute (even credit options are drastically thin right now).  We've had to give up a lot to keep going, lower expenses I mean, and he sees this, and knows our situation. 

You guys are men.  You have that old-fashioned theory of 'I'm the head of the household and I will make these decisions' to fall back on, to try.  When I try taking control, I am jeopardizing his masculinity, and he responds the way any cornered male does... .with anger.  We both try to avoid that at all costs, hence 10 years and no resolve.
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2014, 02:23:55 PM »

I wasn't aware my ex cloned herself and married you... .

Sorry for the sick attempt at humor, but her issues are SO similar to my ex's it's almost scary.

I'm sorry, but I have to call this like I see it - I see all kinds of "red flag" factors in your relationship that are eerily similar to mine... .and I ended up in a financial hole I may never get out of. This is beginning to sound like a VERY toxic financial mix - wife with unstable work history, possible substance abuse issues, now wants to be self employed (oh boy... .could THAT end up badly), and now we find out she is not being honest with you financially.

I know this is the staying board, but I'm seeing all kinds of potential life-altering issues for you that I'm not sure you've ever had to deal with (I did, which is why I'm seeing it).

I think you need to consider steps to protect yourself financially until either 1) she gets better mentally, or 2) you decide to not be together anymore. Like the song said, I see a bad moon rising... .
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2014, 02:52:41 PM »

We spoke again since my last post. She said she thought she'd paid for those things with credits for returned clothes. Not sure I believe that either. She said she could NOT cancel the orders but she'd return them when they arrived. She was very apologetic.

About 2 weeks ago, she transfered $1,000 out of savings into her personal account without telling me. This also got me really angry. I actually had to leave the house I was so mad. When I came back she said I could take her name off that account. I am holding her to that.

Crumbling: I agree it is easier for us guys to take over the family finances. It is our traditional role and a well trodden path. OTOH, I know guys in happy marriages who openly state their wives take care of the money, that is more acceptable now than it was before. These guys just say that the wife is good at that sort of thing. BPD or not, if your spouse if fisically irresponsible and won't let you be in charge of the money, you gotta separate the money so you can at least take care of yourself.

Boss302: You're right. I will take steps this Thursday by taking her off my saving account, and setting us each up with a spending account upon which only the spender is listed. We will retain the shared account for bills only.

Once we find out what's happening with her severance package from work, we'll use most of that to pay down her debt. Then I'll support her looking into seeing credit counselor to come up with a debt settlement. She's already given me all her cards, and I think she's being honest about that.
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 10:24:31 AM »

Looks like we're on track to go to the bank tomorrow. There are a few things we need to do there.

I'm apprehensive about asking her to take her name off the savings account. I will ask, but I'm not sure what I'll do if she says no. There are other things I'd like to accomplish at the bank. Do I take my stand here OR finesse the situation so we can get at least some things done.

Taking a stand might involve calling for complete separation of our finances, which would be especially tough for her since she has no income at the moment.

Advice? Comments?
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Boss302
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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 11:32:48 AM »

Looks like we're on track to go to the bank tomorrow. There are a few things we need to do there.

I'm apprehensive about asking her to take her name off the savings account. I will ask, but I'm not sure what I'll do if she says no. There are other things I'd like to accomplish at the bank. Do I take my stand here OR finesse the situation so we can get at least some things done.

Taking a stand might involve calling for complete separation of our finances, which would be especially tough for her since she has no income at the moment.

Advice? Comments?

I think you have to act in the best interest of your family right now. There will be consequences to your marriage from this, but based on what you've told me, I don't see how you can let this continue.

Have you consulted with an attorney or CPA about this?
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2014, 03:02:43 PM »

I haven't spoken to a CPA or an attorney, and don't intend to for now. My time and finances are limited and I still hope my wife will agree to my plan. Once that is resolved, I plan to seek counsel of one form or another.

Earlier today she agreed with the approach I was suggesting. But, when I started talking about details, she flaked out and said she was too depressed to discuss it. Hopefully, we can do that tomorrow, face-to-face.

She also confessed to a recently accrued debt, the circumstances of which are somewhat understandable. She wasn't intentionally hiding this from me. But, it is another sign that she should not be responsible for managing our money.

So Boss302, you're sweating me on the CPA/attorney angle, no worries, I can take the pressure. :-) It'd be helpful to know exactly what help you thing they can provide or what questions you think I should ask them. Feel free to private message me on that topic.
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Boss302
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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2014, 04:15:53 PM »

I haven't spoken to a CPA or an attorney, and don't intend to for now. My time and finances are limited and I still hope my wife will agree to my plan. Once that is resolved, I plan to seek counsel of one form or another.

Earlier today she agreed with the approach I was suggesting. But, when I started talking about details, she flaked out and said she was too depressed to discuss it. Hopefully, we can do that tomorrow, face-to-face.

She also confessed to a recently accrued debt, the circumstances of which are somewhat understandable. She wasn't intentionally hiding this from me. But, it is another sign that she should not be responsible for managing our money.

So Boss302, you're sweating me on the CPA/attorney angle, no worries, I can take the pressure. :-) It'd be helpful to know exactly what help you thing they can provide or what questions you think I should ask them. Feel free to private message me on that topic.

Not trying to sweat you... .I'm hoping you can consult a professional on this, that's all.

BPDs are definitely prone to financial irresponsibility. Some are fully capable of doing things that are downright reckless (and in my ex's case, illegal). Combine that with possible substance abuse issues, and the fact that your wife's been less than honest with you about money issues, and and I think you have a financially dangerous situation on your hands. If you were divorcing, then a lot of these issues would be solved by the divorce process, but since you're staying, I sense danger, my young padawan... .Smiling (click to insert in post)

I would just like you to get some facts and good advice from a professional, versus opinions from me.

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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2014, 07:16:38 AM »

If I'm the padawan doesn't that make you Yoda?

Difficult to understand the ways of the pwBPD are.



Seriously, the advice is appreciated.
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Boss302
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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2014, 09:38:20 AM »

If I'm the padawan doesn't that make you Yoda?

Maybe I'm a Sith lord... .always two there are, master and apprentice... .Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I'm nowhere near mastering this, but I do hope someday to make the Jedi Council of ex-husbands of BPD wives.

Seriously, the advice is appreciated.

I just hope it's worthwhile.
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2014, 06:57:28 PM »

Sith lord and 'always two there are' made me chuckle. Your advice is worthwhile.

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« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2014, 06:03:49 AM »

I'm rooting for you.  I want this to work for you.  It's great when a BPD partner finally sees what is happening.  She is fortunate to have such an understanding spouse.
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2014, 10:28:15 AM »

Thanks crumble.

We got to the bank and remove her name from the account. She put up mild resistance, but I made this clear this was non-negotiable and we got it done. She made a couple of jokes about not divorcing her, which were more than jokes, so I reassured her I wasn't and that I loved her.

Next on the list, gather necessary info on credit card debt in preparation for meeting with a financial counselor of some sort.

All this is a bit sad. Makes me feel like I am NOT in a relationship of equals. Rather, I'm partially in a care-taking role. (I posted about this on another thread, maybe one Crumble started, and it has stayed with me since then.) I am relatively fortunate because my dBPDw appears to be on the milder end of the spectrum, forgoing the most severe symptoms, having the ability to show genuine concern, and making contributions to our family. Still, realizing staying in the relation means some degree of care-taking is a  bit sad.
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« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2014, 06:29:53 AM »

I've made progress! That's good news.  It's a tremendous weight, these one sided relationships, I agree.  One of the hardest parts of all this, for me anyway.  I was looking forward to not having to parent anymore when my kids left the house... .no such luck I guess.

Stay strong, I1, you are doing a good thing, for you, for your lady and for your family.

And for us here, because you are letting us share in the process of setting boundaries.  Something I grapple with daily.
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2014, 10:52:03 AM »

Staying strong... .not really feeling that way right now, a little exercise will probably help, so I'm doing that after checking the bpdfamily boards.

yesterday was a good day. started getting together documentation we'll need to see a financial counselor, including details on her debts. Ideally, she'd get this info, but she just doesn't do it. So I'm doing it. A bit enabling, but in order to move forward I'm just doing it. This week I'm going to work on getting all that info and looking into what sort of financial counselor we might see.

Yesterday she was getting a bit frustrated with my questions about what was spent on what. Getting our separate spending accounts set up should help with that somewhat. Until then, I need to closely track spending to avoid overdraws. But, I am reacting a bit too quickly, with too much anxiety anytime potential use of money arises. Need to stay calm about this and work the plan.

I continue to appreciate the support here. Writing this stuff down and having people weigh really helps me stay focused on each incremental step, instead of being overwhelmed by all the different things that need to be achieved.
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Boss302
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« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2014, 08:36:18 AM »

All this is a bit sad. Makes me feel like I am NOT in a relationship of equals. Rather, I'm partially in a care-taking role. (I posted about this on another thread, maybe one Crumble started, and it has stayed with me since then.) I am relatively fortunate because my dBPDw appears to be on the milder end of the spectrum, forgoing the most severe symptoms, having the ability to show genuine concern, and making contributions to our family. Still, realizing staying in the relation means some degree of care-taking is a  bit sad.

Yep, same thing happened to me. In order to stay with my BPDx, I had to become "the responsible one." The good news is that this lessened the financial issues somewhat. No more "Surprise!" moments when I tried to use my debit card and it got declined. The bad news is that I was stuck being the grown up in a relationship with a 45-year-old woman. It was ridiculous... .and she never changed. Never made one effort to do things different. I came to resent this tremendously - I "didn't sign up for this." And it wasn't like she had come down with some dread disease, or gotten run over by a bus, or some other life changing event that was beyond her control - this was all behavioral on her part. She decided not to get a "real job." She decided to be dishonest with me about money. She decided to spend money on ridiculous things that took food off the table. These were all her choices, and I was stuck cleaning up after her continually.

And years later, two years after she lost custody of her children, she's doing the same things over and over. She's never changed.
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Inquisitive1
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« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2014, 08:52:16 AM »

I seem to be walking a similar path to you Darth Boss302. I hope my journey end more positively than yours, but I'm open to the same ending you describe.
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« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2014, 09:23:53 AM »

I seem to be walking a similar path to you Darth Boss302. I hope my journey end more positively than yours, but I'm open to the same ending you describe.

I hope so too. Just remember, though, that there's no law that says you have to spend the rest of your life cleaning up someone else's messes. And I know you are thinking of your kids, and you're right when you think that divorce will definitely hurt them, but I believe firmly that setting up a stable home where BPD mom's out-of-control lifestyle can't affect them as much has been a blessing for my kids. Hopefully things improve for you, but if they don't, you have options. You are NOT trapped.

Let us know how things go for you.
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