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Author Topic: When someone else validates the invalid  (Read 841 times)
maxsterling
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« on: August 15, 2014, 02:49:59 PM »

uggh.  I hate it when that happens!  Here I am, trying to keep things grounded in reality, trying my best to not validate negative or bad behavior, and then someone or something comes along that give her validation that her bad behavior was somehow justified. 

Lately, it's been her running into former co-workers from previous jobs.  And in both cases those former co-workers told her that things got worse after she quit (or was fired), and then everyone else quit.  In her mind it's, "SEE!  I wasn't the only one who had a problem, management WERE a-holes!"  Not the message I want in her head, because her behavior definitely was a problem.  I've been really trying to keep the message to her that work stress comes with every job, but we have control over how we handle it, rather than supporting her belief that all her former employers were out to get her. 

And before that was her aunt (whom I have never met) whom my fiancé was turning to for relationship  advice because the aunt was validating her bad behavior and her belief that I was causing all of her distress.   Fiancé revealed to me a few weeks ago that when the aunt and her uncle first got together, aunt would criticize and belittle him all the time, and fiancé thought that was horrible and doesn't know why they stayed together.  Light bulb!  Fiancé then asked if she does the same to me.  So, early this spring, fiancé was in distress, paints everyone black except for aunt, turns to abusive aunt for r/s advice.   Grrrr. 
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wishfulthinking
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2014, 02:59:54 PM »

I know the feeling.  His mom and his ex both validate him because he doesn't tell them the entire story of what happened.  He tells them stuff like I just blew up at him about taking $20 that he told me he was going to take... .when he said he was getting 20 and took 60 that I didn't have and overdrafted me... .or the time he told his mom he wrote a check on my account that didn't clear and I was mad... .how about 8 checks to the tune of -$800+ of my checking account including overdraft charges.  Then the bank closed my account... .but NOO don't tell the truth on why I was upset?  I didn't even yell or scream, I just asked why and told him I was disappointed and didn't know what to do because of his actions.  Yes, I was mad, VERY mad, but more mad where I didn't want to talk to him ever again than to fight with him, you know... .Of course, it ended up being my fault and his mom still takes his side.  I don't even care anymore.  It's her kid and I know she'll love him, but dang... .TELL THE TRUTH! Of course they validate his feelings, they only hear his side!  They think I'm evil.  His ex still loves him and he uses her for money.  Sickens me.
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woofhound
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2014, 03:56:54 PM »

Great post, man... .

My uBPDex would get validation from her friends all the time, and in return she would also validate their negative behaviors.

For instance: She once did MDMA (basically the drug ecstacy) three days in a row. I have no problem with her partying occasionally, but there are certain boundaries she violated that I was very clear with her about:

1. This is an OCCASIONAL thing.

2. It is to be done in a safe environment where arrest is highly unlikely.

3. We need to be clear with each other about who we are doing this with and where we are at if we aren't doing it together.

She did it three days in a row with people that I do not approve of in a setting where arrest was highly likely while her friend was driving on this drug with a suspended license. Am I crazy or is that really irresponsible? (that's not a rhetorical question. i'd really like to know people's take on this).

Anyway, to continue, when I got really upset about this because of the damaging effects on the brain, the likelihood of getting into trouble, and the dishonesty about who she was with (as I asked her after the second time to stop behaving irresponsibly so she lied about the third occasion, choosing not to text me at all or call) her friend calls me to tell me that i'm a controlling dick. Later I found out that she never said anything good about me to her "friends". She never mentioned that I fixed her car on numerous occasions, paid for all sorts of stuff, cooked for her, helped her get grants for school (which she is no longer going to), got her 2 different jobs... .She only talked to them about me when she needed validation for her irresponsible actions. She would say things like "so and so said you have no right to control me that way, and that i'm an adult capable of making my own decisions. they think your a control freak."

These people were drug dealers that didn't even live with their own child, and another set, who were also drug dealers, had a child in the home, and constantly allowed basically strangers to come over and buy drugs with the kid there! How immoral is that? Why would she associate with those sorts? Oh yeah, because they gave her drugs and validation in exchange for validation so they could all believe their hideous behaviors were acceptable. TOTAL LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

This is only one instance... .
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maxsterling
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2014, 04:24:25 PM »

wow, woofhound.  That's quite a story, and exactly what I am speaking of.  When they find validation for something that is almost universally understood as wrong.  Doing drugs and putting your life and the life of others at risk wrong.  It must have been completely mind-blowing to hear someone else defend her actions, no?

That's the thing with boundaries.  On the BPD end, they always feel like we are trying to control them.  The reality is a proper boundary is meant to control US - to keep the chaos out of OUR lives.  We say "no, we won't tolerate that" and leave if it happens.  To them, they think we are trying to force them to change their behavior.  And when they speak to others, they present it that way:

"He won't let me go out and party with you guys."

And to the listener whose sole motivation in life is to get high with other people, you look like a big ass.  I'm lucky that many of her friends have met me and know I am a good guy.  So when she goes to them complaining now, they aren't so quick to validate.  I just remember year ago when during arguments she would bring up how she talks about me to all her friends and all her friends agree that I am an immature prick.  Let's see, friend #1 is a single mom of an uncontrollable child, doesn't work and lives with mom and dad.  Friend #2, same story... .

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woofhound
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2014, 04:59:33 PM »

I think we all tend to gravitate toward others that validate our value structure. Most of my friends come from solid homes. In fact, I've noticed this about myself lately: many of my friends, because of my profession (woodworking), are over the age of 60 and have been married for a VERY VERY LONG TIME without divorce... .
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maxsterling
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2014, 05:45:55 PM »

I think we all tend to gravitate toward others that validate our value structure.

Yep.  That's human nature.  Just like we all turn here to bpdfamily, to people who have experienced the same as us, to help us feel less crappy about ourselves.  But I can't recall ever using what my friends said (or what the people on here said) to go back to my fiancé and say "SEE, they all agree that you are abusive and crazy!"  I don't recall ever logging off of this website feeling, "Oh, it's okay that I was rude to my fiancé because she has a mental illness."  One of my fiancé's biggiset complaints with AA is that she doesn't believe people there are real.  She claims real addicts are not happy and living happy lives.  She thinks they are all phones, and that real addicts live miserable lives and struggle daily even after years of sobriety.  She says she prefers NA meetings where people are rough around the edges and admit they are struggling and that they hit their spouses and sleep around. 
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winnie77

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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2014, 03:46:50 PM »

Mine went behind my back with a female coworker because she built his ego so he started twisting things with us so she would give him attention... .his ego being built completely changed the way he was with me at home. He got arrogant and distant... .started complaining... .i had to leave to stay at my mom's for financial reasons and he let this woman believe that I had left him and they talked constantly on the phone for two weeks and I didn't even know she existed... .when I found out and wanted them to stop talking, my husband agreed and apologized but she came at me saying I had left him and that I was just being mean and basically didn't want him to have her friendship. She also said she would not stop talking to him... .he blocked her and got into therapy... .that's when he was diagnosed... .so I understand how infuriating it is for them to be validated for doing the invalid... .mine was validated for being financially irresponsible and going behind my back... .ugh... .: ) Thank God he is wanting recovery... .
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2014, 04:03:48 PM »

I have had so many instances where people have validated the invalid.

My mother and his mother are great at it. My mother tells me that I should be thankful to have a husband like him because of all of the nice things he does (that is when she isn't making it all about her and my dad). His mother told me to suck it up when I called her one evening concerned because he was making veiled suicide threats. I shared some other stuff about him and she told me to suck it up and that he was just like his dad.

And then there were all of the times he talked to women online. He told me it was platonic. I got mad for some reason and went snooping and saw that he had told them all sorts of things and had him thinking that his wife is such a horrible person. I went so far as to email several of the women and tell them that he is a sex addict. They thanked me and cut off all contact with him. He told one of the ladies that I had cut him off when the truth was that it had only been a day or two since the last time you know what happened.
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winnie77

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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2014, 04:29:21 PM »

Vortex of confusion, had he been sexual with them in the emails, or just seeking pity and attention?
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2014, 04:37:22 PM »

Vortex of confusion, had he been sexual with them in the emails, or just seeking pity and attention?

He had been very sexual with them in the emails. We were both emailing people. All I asked was that there be honesty and no pics of private parts. Both of those were violated to the tune of promising to send her videos. Not only were pictures of certain things taken but they were taken in the bathroom at work. That freaked me out because he lost a job over his addiction 10 years ago.
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winnie77

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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2014, 04:44:07 PM »

Oh ok... .yeah mine insists Tha it was completely platonic and that he was not attracted to her in any way... .and I have to say, I don't think she's someone he would have picked out if a group however she was apparently very protective of him and loyal toward him against me so it was at least emotional. ... but he says she built his ego and gave him approval which he felt he wasn't getting from me because I didn't like him lying to me about money and people at work... .ha... .
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winnie77

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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2014, 04:47:49 PM »

Actually he said he thought that if I found out about lies, I would leave him and so he just needed someone to make him feel good in case I did... .whatever... BPD abandonment issues. I just wish other people would mind their own business and stay out if marriages... .Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2014, 05:25:19 PM »

It seems common for them to get validation by twisting the truth, telling half truths, or making things up.

I find it interesting that my husband seems to have a disconnect about the whole email friends thing. He enjoys it and pushed me to do it so that he would have an excuse to do it too. I am so mad at myself for letting myself get caught up in all of the crap. At our worst, I think I was the one that was validating the invalid because I thought that maybe, just maybe it would help. I got my thinking so blasted twisted.
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winnie77

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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2014, 09:35:30 PM »

Yeah we have to be careful to remain focuses and not allow their disordered thinking to spill over to us. It can seem ordered at times which is why I guess they suggest we plan ahead our responses to things. It's strategy...
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MissyM
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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2014, 11:14:43 PM »

Oh, the good old shopping around to have people validate the invalid!  My dBPDh has been a master of this.  Thankfully, everyone involved right now knows that he does this and challenge him on his thinking.  Amazingly today he told me that he makes up fantasies in his head (think he means distortions) about me because he is afraid I am going to leave him.   So he makes up these scenarios of how I don't love him and takes small things and makes them bigger to reinforce that belief.  Really, i was stunned that he has this much insight.  He would then take these made up stories about me and go to get validation from other people about how horrible I was.  Then he would start to be cruel towards me because everyone agreed that I was a terrible person and he was a victim.  It was a real nightmare.  Hopefully, he will keep this awareness and not just "forget" it.
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waverider
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« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2014, 06:24:51 AM »

Unfortunately its all part of the bumps in the road. Keep in mind that they may selectively interpret what others say. If they want validation then that is what they will hear, just the same as they will hear criticism if they are looking for it.

It is one reason they often seek multiple medical opinions, so they can cut and paste quotes to make up their own version of a diagnosis
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winnie77

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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2014, 09:01:14 AM »

Waverider, that is exactly what i am seeing. He has it in his head at times certain negative things about me and if I do anything remotely similar then I have validated his belief. I actually asked him the other day if he would mind trying to see me in a good light , with good intentions as well as seeing the good things that I think of him, then I named all the good things I see in him and think about him... .he said he was trying to... .i guess that's all I can ask for. I can tell he has been trying. It's definitely an attitude thing. We can choose to see the good or we can choose to see the bad... .they just have to conquer the fear of seeing the good, feeling the good and risking the vulnerability... it's hard, even for nons... .
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