I don't understand

[jchart]

I have been with someone I think is BPD. I have known him since I was fifteen and now I am almost 36. When we were in high school he was different and everyone said he was gay. I didn't believe them. I loved him so much and he used to write these long letters. Every time we got too close he would end our "friendship" but never had a reason. It was a go to hell and I hate you sort of thing. Time would pass and then things would be ok again. I cried a lot and was over emotional. I dropped out of school and moved away. We stayed in touch and by the time I was 21 we finally kissed. I was scared of him hurting me so I ran. I met someone else and stayed with him for 11 years. I never stopped loving my first love. I led a pretty hard life with him. In 2011 I looked for him after being in touch with him off and on. We texted for a few months and I finally asked him if he was gay. He said adamantly no. We finally came face to face and slept together. I was so happy but then through texting it seemed like he was always angry. We were back and forth between him getting really mean and then talking about sex and having children. I accidently because pregnant within two months and miscarried. He was so upset and so mad. He blamed me. I was falling apart. He stopped talking to me and then a week later after it happened said he had met another woman and it was amazing and she was his girlfriend. I was devastated.

It took six months to recover and I tried really hard to put on a brave face as he kept texting me talking about this woman and how great it was. He talked about a lot of things. I was put on medication for anxiety. Finally I told him I accepted things the way they were and just wanted to have the friendship we had known for almost 20 years. Then he wanted me back. I slept with him again and it continued. One night he left in the middle of the night because a "friend" was in bad sorts. I was suspicious but shook it off. He lived an hour and a half away. He kept wanting to try again to get pregnant. I was really apprehensive. He didn't want to commit to me. He wanted to go to school so I pulled some strings and got him into the local university. He debated back and forth and broke it off with me two months later. He still wanted to go to school and asked me to help him study for the GREs. He got into school. He had to take statistics. He asked for help. The whole time I was stupid enough to keep sleeping with him and thinking since I was already in my 30s getting pregnant wouldn't be so bad. I had already wasted so much of my life.

By the end of summer he moved in with me. Things were tense. I was still suspicious after meeting his guy friend. Something was off. I started trolling social media and one day I saw an email between them that was a break up email. He had emailed me two days later wanting to get together. I couldn't breathe and thought he was gay. I wanted to know why he was sleeping with me for what was over a year at that point. I wanted to know who this guy was. Social media revealed a relationship between them. My guy denied it. He said the other guy was crazy, that it wasn't true. We had fight after fight where he blamed me, hated me, thought I was manipulative and a liar. He would say the worst things he could to me. I finally figured out where the other guy worked and called him. I told him who I was, that I had been sleeping with my guy and that I had miscarried. I wanted to know he was. He wouldn't answer me or tell me anything. Said he had to go.

My guy was beyond angry that I had called. He called me every name in the book and said every horrible thing he could say. At that time I was so mad I told him don't bother coming home or I would call the police. He cried and broke down begging to come home. He always cried a lot. I finally let him. He came home crying and emotional. Then turned on me the next day saying he was gay, that the other guy had been his boyfriend. It was a vicious cycle. Finally he said he was moving out. It was three months after moving in. Said he couldn't trust me. Turned out he was moving out and he didn't say he was moving in with the guy. The other guy gave up a whole life and moved in with him. It was all these cycles and he was still sleeping with me. I was so desperate to have something to remember him and outside of my own skin. I got pregnant two months after he left.

It was this big secret. He didn't want the guy to know. He kept us separate from each other. It was a really hard pregnancy. I was getting anonymous emails and calls telling me to stay out of their relationship. We had these fights and then he would turn the tables saying it was me that sent them to myself, it was me calling myself. It was awful. I was emotional all the time but I was grasping for any shred of hope or happiness. I couldn't understand all of this. I still don't. Why arent they together if this is a relationship? He let the other guy believe when he found out that I was artificially inseminated and he had generously donated his sperm to a friend. He never told him he had sex with me and instead told him I was a liar and I was crazy.

I was in the same program at school and trying to get through it. I held his hand through it and did work for him sacrificing my own. He always threatened to drop out. He always threatened to end the friendship. He went back and forth between wanting to be a dad and telling me our son was a mistake. He still wanted to sleep with me. When our son was born he was immediately attached to him. He wanted to be a dad. He spent a lot of time at my place. He wanted a second one as soon as I could have sex again. We tried. There was a lot of anger cycles and rage. One minute he was ending our friendship and the next minute he was sorry. I got pregnant again three months later. It was really bad. He as all over the place constantly angry but still demanding to spend time with our son. The gist of our fights was that I was to blame for everything that was wrong in his life and that he hated me. The emails were still me and I was not trustworthy, manipulative and a liar. I couldn't cut him off.

I thought maybe if he moved away he would be better. So I talked him into applying to a phd program. I applied to one too. He got in and I am at a different school in the same town. We have moved 300 miles away from his friends and sadly, my family. Nothing has changed. HE is so critical and says he can't separate the mother from the baby, We are living together. He sleeps in my bed with our son and me because he said it makes out son feel secure. He doesn't even have a bed in his room and its been two months.

He still fights with me. Still blames me. His mother finally saw this and now she is dead to him after confronting him. He forbids our son to see her so I am sneaking around. I am seeing a psychologist but I still don't understand all of this and I don't know what the right thing is to do. I wanted my son to have a normal life. Part of me wants to disappear and at the same time I am scared of him taking my son or my son being exposed to his friends.

The hardest part for me is him sleeping with me for three years and constantly saying if people think he's gay let them. If they think that then he will act like it. The other part is being blamed for fake Facebook pages, the emails and the phone calls. I'm the pyriah and no one else in his life especially the other guy would ever be capable of doing that.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

Sounds like he is exhibiting typical BPD behavior. Your real problem is you though. You do not know who you are, what your values are .

You have a lack of boundaries. We teach people how to treat us. If we are are not clear about who we are and what we will tolerate someone who lacks empathy, as pwBPD do, will impose their whims on us, because they can.

No doubt the high swings will drag you in like a drug. I am sure he can be the best of company when on a high. This leaves you in constant hope that if you can only deal with the next drama you can get back to this "hit".

The problem is that the drama in front of you is not the real issue, it is just a symptom of his disordered behavior. Addressing the symptom will not cure the cause.

You alone cannot cure this disorder, particularly as he seems to be in permanent denial and dumps blame on others, and then runs to start again. Rinse repeat.

You can only work on you and what you really want and stand for, then work out how others should fit around you. I know this sounds selfish. But you have to be sound within yourself if you want to be treated with respect. You need to be prepared to let go or your life can deteriorate continuously.

Keep posting and discussing here and you will slowly start to see the smoke clear from in front of you. Many have been through this dance that you currently find yourself stuck in

[DreamFlyer99]

This was one of the first articles I read when I first came here trying to figure out how to make my marriage of more than 3 decades work: BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

It's about what Waverider is talking about: knowing who WE are and what WE want and value, and then learning to place boundaries to support what we value. I learned so much from it. Read the article, but then read the continuation too that's linked at the bottom of the page. It's so worth getting a handle on these concepts! I've felt so much clearer since I worked my way through the info and started applying it to my own life.

You're worth the work!

[jchart]

Thank you and you are both right which is why I am seeing a psychologist for myself. My dilemma is my ten month old son. Part of me thinks leaving and detaching is the best thing for both of us. Part of me wants to stay because you're right. There's hope. I don't understand his actions and behavior. I feel lost and in pieces. I've always been a person to try to understand. I honestly don't know why he is here and I certainly don't know why he hasn't left. He says he hates me.

[waverider]

Having a child is life changing. You need to rebuild your life around that. Your son is the center of your world now.

[DreamFlyer99]

Responsibilities shift when we have a child, and they become the most important one to safeguard. They're unable to take care of themselves while the adults can wherever they are.

[jchart]

I saw my therapist again today. He doesn't want to suggest I leave because of the baby. Says the predicament is that we are a family and maybe trying to cope and learn skills is the best way to keep us together but it isn't a traditional relationship. I am supposed to work on myself to get back my confidence and self esteem. I read the article that was suggested. Very helpful.

[waverider]

I wouldn't suggest leaving just yet either. Your T is right, work on shifting your priorities so that you are not living reactively to your partners whims. Put your hands on the steering wheel if you like.

One step at a time and see what happens, if you change your approach to life, your partner will counter react. You can't change your life overnight but you can start steering back on to a more stable path.

[jchart]

The hard part if the "boyfriend" who tormented me is still in the picture as well as the sixty year old claiming to be his girlfriend. All this dysfunction that is in the back of my mind. I know where the focus needs to be but I feel like while I am working on. Me and trying to do what's best for our baby, his dishonesty is still prevalent and creates what my therapist called ambivalence. I mean if he's gay it seems easier for him to drop the charade I would think. It's hard to wrap my head around and as I titled this at the beginning I don't get it.

[DreamFlyer99]

Have you had a chance yet to look at that Boundaries article? If you're able to spend some time thinking through the things that hold the most value for you and learn to put some boundaries in place to safeguard those, whatever is going on in the background will affect you less. you'll have more focus. (I understand how tough it is to find time when you have a little one!)

Like Waverider mentioned, when we learn to be less reactive to our partner's whims, we become more in control of the things that matter to us. We can spend our energy on what's important.

[itgirl]

I mean if he's gay it seems easier for him to drop the charade I would think. It's hard to wrap my head around and as I titled this at the beginning I don't get it.

Some people have difficulty in accepting their sexual orientation and it might not be as easy as you think.  It is very hard to accept.  I am gay and I know.  The thing is that if he is living a lie and is indeed gay he will never be truly happy.  Sooner or later it will either eat him up alive or he will come out. 

Does his other friends and family know this other guy?  Or is he hiding him from them? 

[waverider]

The hard part if the "boyfriend" who tormented me is still in the picture as well as the sixty year old claiming to be his girlfriend. All this dysfunction that is in the back of my mind. I know where the focus needs to be but I feel like while I am working on. Me and trying to do what's best for our baby, his dishonesty is still prevalent and creates what my therapist called ambivalence. I mean if he's gay it seems easier for him to drop the charade I would think. It's hard to wrap my head around and as I titled this at the beginning I don't get it.

It may seem like a charade to you, but if he doesn't really have a sense of who he is, then he probably is unsure of his sexuality. So it is more of an unstable facade he constantly lives behind, partly to fool himself and partly to hide behind.

pwBPD often seek solace in the "taboo". That doesn't last of course because thats not the answer, so off they go looking for something different again. Bisexual fantasizing by men is far more widespread than you might expect. pwBPD are more likely to attempt to live out these fantasies, as separation of fantasy and reality falls under the umbrella of the inability to regulate life in general.

I guess the whole point is that this is his "stuff", you need to separate it from your "stuff". Trying guess his sexuality and who else maybe in his life is a sideshow. He will also use it as lever against you.

Regardless of who/what is tormenting you, you need to put a boundary up to remove yourself from that torment. It matters not whether the threat is real or not. Whether you have the facts or not. Whether you are being fair or not. Boundaries have only one purpose and that is to protect you from these feelings.

[jchart]

Tonight he figured out I went to a therapist and I shrugged it off saying I'm working on my own issues and to make sure I'm a good parent to our son. In turn he accused me of hurting our son and thinking negatively of him. Said I need to show our baby that I love him and accused me of not doing things that show that when I do all of it. The baby is so happy all the time because i do everything I can. This really hurts.

[waverider]

Tonight he figured out I went to a therapist and I shrugged it off saying I'm working on my own issues and to make sure I'm a good parent to our son. In turn he accused me of hurting our son and thinking negatively of him. Said I need to show our baby that I love him and accused me of not doing things that show that when I do all of it. The baby is so happy all the time because i do everything I can. This really hurts.

Totally hurts, there is no easy way around these problems. Your partner is probably needy. You can never fully satisfy neediness. When he perceives a shortfall he will describe that in absolutes. ie he will claim you never meet his needs. That will feel unjust to you after all you do. It can provoke you to try to defend yourself. You do not need to defend and justify yourself or you will gradually become more frustrated and your justifications will start to sound more and more like excuses. You doubt yourself and cave in.

Shrug it off and don't get drawn into justifying yourself. You dont have to. You know your reality, dont attempt to sell it to someone who simply wont accept anything but their own needs.

[jchart]

Well itgirl all of his friends seem to know about the guy, I think but I know I have been the secret from them. The guy who in believe was harassing me didn't really know who I was and I know he doesn't know that my friend in question had been sleeping with me for the last three years. The other guy that people seem to know about believes my son was conceived via sperm in a cup. However, his family doesn't know well didn't know until I told them. They were very confused. Because my friend acts different and is so secretive everyone has always assumed he's gay even since we were kids. He has verbally gone back and forth with me when he's in a rage.

Everyone around him including me has been very accepting of the possibility including his parents. He won't hear of it and says he is not. Says oral doesn't make him gay.

He always vocalizes mistrust in me. Says the harassment was my own doing and I must have emailed myself these emails about him and the other guy. I have taken what I have learned so far and have stopped defending myself. I have proof from phone company it wasn't me but in fact it came from the other guys place of employment and their former residence but I have never showed it to him and it is hidden. I'm afraid he will turn the tables on me.

[DreamFlyer99]

When I was first talking to my therapist about my marriage I just kept telling her all the things that were happening that seemed so outrageous. I'd be, "and then h did this! and then h did that!" and she finally started saying to me as I was starting another story, "so, h was acting like h... ." That really made me think, I was expecting behavior from him that I couldn't expect. I WANTED it, but I couldn't expect it.

I needed to start seeing whatever he was saying/blowing up about/etc as mere smoke. It was nothing of substance as far as the things I needed to learn to protect myself. What I needed to do was learn to apply boundaries about how I was willing to be treated. It really boiled down to worrying about myself, and not him.

[jchart]

I don't think I can stay here and do this. I was so stupid and got sucked in again. I'm almost 37 with a baby that is almost one now. I want more children and a real relationship. Today he kept bringing up my period and I said I haven't had one and dropped the subject saying maybe it was stress or just anxiety. Awhile ago he said no more children ever and that the topic was never to be brought up again. So I let it die. Today he says he wants to have more children etc and there was part of me that was so excited at the idea. He kept hinting at sex and reeled me in. Then tonight since he said I'm never direct before I was direct. He rejected me outright and said no children. This is so depressing and I don't want to be here anymore. I want to just move out and away. He knew how I felt and it was like he toyed with me. I have been trying so hard and I'm working on myself but life is going by. All my previous posts show who he is and what he may be confused about. This seemed malicious. I am so sad and can't stop crying.

[DreamFlyer99]

I'm so sorry you're sad... . 

There's definitely grieving involved when we start seeing the reality of our relationship with truly open eyes.

Does this mean you're becoming more clear on the things that are important to you? It sounds that way. And once we get that clarity it makes keeping boundaries around those things come more easily.

It sounds like he acted pretty much like he's been acting all along in regards to your feelings, so what changed?

[jchart]

He seemed to go straight for what he knew I want most and then shot me down. It made me realize he doesn't care how much it hurts me. It feels like it will always be this way and being my age, and him never changing, I can't keep doing this. The person I thought existed when we were kids doesn't exist. He's this person who hurts and makes me feel so humiliated. I don't matter to him and I don't think no matter how much effort I put into it, I never will. The last 20 years of friendship meant nothing to him. I can't do this anymore.

[DreamFlyer99]

What do you want to do now?

[jchart]

I think I have to find a way to leave. I'm so down and so tired. I feel broken. He's back to being nasty today and pretending nothing was said yesterday. Told me I should see other people and have children with someone else. He always says this and has been saying it before our son was even born. Wants to be his dad, but feels like he wants me gone anyway.

[DreamFlyer99]

That was a typical behavior for my husband too, mean words one day and then upset that I can't just move on the next day. It's hard not to take personally, but it's more about his disorder than it is about you.

[jchart]

I feel so torn and depressed. I feel like it's me. That I'm not worth anything and that I am these things that he says. Maybe he really sees me dating others so this releases him from me. He doesn't even care and just texted me telling me he has choices too. Fathering anymore children with me is disgusting. I live with him and my son - how can I be the one to just take his father away.

[waverider]

I feel so torn and depressed. I feel like it's me. That I'm not worth anything and that I am these things that he says.

Do you feel like you are worth nothing because of your difficulty in finding the strength to end this cycle?

Don't be too hard on yourself, it takes most people a long time to arrive at the strength of mind to gain control again.

[jchart]

I lost it tonight. He was so mean all day and said he was mad at me and couldn't stop saying horrible things to me. He  accused me for the millionth time of ruining his life and blaming me of electronic harassment to myself. He keeps doing this. I finally had proof and I dug it out and handed it to him to show it wasn't me but he took it and started ripping it and he called me a freak. I shoved him so hard I knocked him over. We have an 11 month old son who was in the room. I scooped him up and left. He said he was calling the police. I was so scared. I drove. A few blocks down and waited. They never showed.  I called the house and he called me every name in the book and demanded I return to be arrested and to give my son to him. I wouldn't go. I went home but he just continued telling me I was an abuser and I was lucky I didn't get arrested and that I had a free pass this time. It all continued for hours and I said I was sorry. He was receptive to being BPD and then shut me down. Says he is leaving tomorrow by the end of conversation . I feel so low.4

[itgirl]

JChart

Do you have a friend that you can visit for a night. I think getting a little space will help get perspective.

Sorry for this hurt you going through. We are all here for you as we go through the same stuff.

[Slave to the binary]

Hi jcart,

We are in similar situations, close in ages, although I have no human children (adopted 5 animals with him)... .maybe we can be of support for each other. 

[Slave to the binary]

Sorry should say "jchart" 

[jchart]

I have no where to go. He claims he is leaving today for good and dropping out of school. I would love to support each other. I feel like such a crazy person right now. If I didn't have a son I think my depression would be a lot worse. I don't know how I'm going to get through this and the person I thought I knew for all these years never really existed. He really hates me and says I'm to blame for everything. Says he will be happier elsewhere and that makes me so sad because I tried so hard

[MaybeSo]

I don't think you are clear yet about the disorder your significant other has.

BPD is an attachment disorder.  That means the symptoms of the disorder will show up and be at their very worst when there is an attachment bond with another person.

It doesn't matter who that person might be.  It could be you. It could be me. It could be others in his life.

He will become very disorganized and triggered when he is in an attachment setting. Period.  :)isorganized means he feels unclear about himself and who he is, including his sexual orientation, where he lives, with whom, etc.

This disorder has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.  He will hate you today and love you tomorrow.  It will always change.

The ugly things he says are what people say when they are really upset or feel offended or attacked or threatened or scared... but b/c he has BPD... .he feels really upset and confused and threatened and untrusting almost ALL THE TIME because that is how the disorder works. It's similar to PTSD.  It's how his mind/body works.

If I were with him, he would be doing the same things to me as he is doing to you.  His symptoms would be the same.

If another poster on this board met him and was trying to have a r/s with him, he would be behaving similarly with them.

The story content might change a bit... .if I'm upset and I KNOW YOU... .I will have information about you that helps to explain and externalize my upset feelings ... .the story line may be slightly different... .but the overall dysfunction whenever in a close relationship will be the same.  It will be volatile, ups and downs, huge mood swings, huge changes in wants/needs/goals, lot of blame and finger pointing, everything will change depending on how the person with the disorder is feeling at any given moment and they feel dysregulated a lot.   They often have horrendous emotional pain... .and they EXTERNALIZE the emotional pain as being about the person they are closest to... .IT MUST BE BECAUSE OF YOU.  It's not, of course, it's a disorder that has a trajectory of it's own... .regardless.  But he doesn't really know that.  He lashes out at you.

Here is where we DO become part of the problem.

When a person with an attachment disorder like your bf has... .hooks up with a partner who has low self esteem, poor boundaries, etc. we get very sick along with them b/c we accept their externalization and we accept abuse.  

When we get healthier, and develop a more solid sense of our OWN being... .we stay out of the FOG and see the disorder for what it is.  We see areas where we need improvement, as all people do have things they can work on or improve about themselves... .but we do not accept abuse or blame or poor treatment.  There is no place in a healthy r/s for mistreatment... .even if he did have a legitimate complaint about you... .if he is cruel about it... .then a boundary is needed.  When we are healthy and have emotional boundaries, we do not get lost in the other person's illness and projections.

The ugly stuff he says is a reflection of his own pain and his own experience... .it's a projection, you do not have to accept it or take it into yourself... .you can view it as an announcement of how much fear he lives with.  Stop mistaking this to be about you.    

This is what you need to work on.  Either in or out of the relationship. Yourself.

I go back to the original response you got on this thread b/c it was really the most important one.

There are lots of folks in this world that have serious attachment issues, and they act the way your bf acts. It is what it is.

That is a fact.  It has nothing morally or intrinsically to do with you or anyone... .it is simply a disorder.  It has it's own symptoms, and those symptoms will show up basically the same way... .even if the story content changes with different partners.

Your job as a parent is to develop yourself as a full, grounded adult that has strong, but flexible boundaries and knows how to take care of yourself.  And your child.  Regardless of who you might love or associate with... .your job is to grow into an adult that takes care of yourself and your child.  You can do that!   When people like this are in our lives... .we can feel like victims ... or we can take charge and see that these people are showing us that we need to learn to take care of ourselves.  This r/s has been going on a long time... .this is about you, not him.  This is about you learning to take care of you. That is the lesson that is knocking at the door. Stay away from the content of the story (he told me I was an awful mother... .)... .the content will change over and over and over and over... .if you keep hooking into his story and his projections... .you will stay stuck.  See it as the disorder talking, visualize the crap as just falling to the floor... .and take steps to get healthy no matter what. You can do this!  You can do this.



Very best to you.