Well I WANT to stay but he is gone

[hope2727]

Well hello all. Thank you for sharing your stories. I gain so much from reading them.

I am in the want to repair a relationship mode but he is currently in a push me away phase. The worst one I have ever seen in fact. I am doing my best to work on me and stay strong but currently had to ask for no contact as it was just him repeating the same irrational stuff over and over.

He is working out of town for 2 weeks. He currently lives away from me and considers me not his partner. I am living in our home and working on myself and living my life regardless of his actions.

I have set a FIRM foundry of I will not see him without his therapist present and he is refusing. He was told to get care by his work or get fired. So he is seeing a psychiatrist a psychologist and group therapy. He has told me they are talking mood disorder, depression, anxiety and PTSD but he is the most borderline person I have ever met. Reading "Stop walking on eggshells" was like reading my past year.

He asked me to attend therapy but when I agreed he backed out. He knows I will tell the truth and I have recently uncovered some lies. He started with "would you come to therapy so I can tell you how you have hurt me?"  Now it is " You are never going to be at my psychologists as that is my safe place where it is all about me." So I am for the first time ever just saying "no". My boundary is we attend the psychologist together or he doesn't get to see me. Period.

He choose not seeing me. Says "move on with someone else". I said "i love you and I choose you but if you choose to reject me ok. I shall continue with my life then." 

So I would really like some general support and a hug. I have let this wonderful man whittle away at me for a year now (been together 3) and I have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

He will either meet my boundary and we can start to rebuild or he won't and then he never would have. Sigh. Being courageous is so hard. I want to weaken and just meet him for coffee like he asked. BUT NO! I must stay strong.

No relationship that includes a personality or mood disorder survives without a therapist. So he has to meet me there and include me or its not possible.

Ok people, feedback please.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ceruleanblue]

Hugs to you. I am in almost the same boat as you, except I agreed to take my uBPDh back, and it's not turning out well for me. I sort of knew I shouldn't believe his promises to try harder to stop the verbal abuse. Like you husband, mine fits the description of BPD to a "t". Mine just got diagnosed(love those 20 minute diagnosis' where they only go off what the "patient" wants to tell them) with Intermittent Explosive Disorder. Which I'd thought they only diagnosed when the symptoms couldn't be accounted for by any other disorder? Hello! My husband has all the signs of BPD, and NPD.

I think you are doing the right thing by having boundaries, and not just letting him suck you back in. Everyone needs their line in the sand. Like you, I was firmly entrenched in wanting my marriage to work, but that doesn't just depend on me, and he wasn't doing his part, even after the separation, which I thought might wake him up. I did fine during our separation, and he finally saw what he was throwing away, and got scared. Only scared enough though to make false promises though, not to actually want to do any real work on himself. He resents that his psychiatrist put him on two drugs, but it was his psychologist who recommended he see the psychiatrist. His family doctor also told him this was a mental health issue, and put him on an antipsychotic drug, but he promptly when off that too. He blames ME for his having to take meds, but it's not my fault he needs them!

I found my line in the sand while my husband was gone. I'd actually found it before he left, which is why I agreed to give him the "break" he was always threatening me with. I will not be treated with such disrespect anymore. His anger, rages, mockery, belittling is HIS issue, and I'm not going to live a life always giving in to someone like that. Everything was HIS way, and I was just his target. No more. He came back, but nothing has changed. I'm trying to decide if I can even last a few more days.

Have you thought about writing his therapist, and disclosing what his real behaviors are? I've read of others on here who have done that. I think they have to share it with the patient(your husband), that you have done so though. I know my husband probably didn't tell his psychiatrist about all his behaviors, or he'd have gotten a different diagnosis than IED. He is so much more than just explosive. He is personality disordered, with a capital PD. He can't help being that way, but it's his fault he chooses to STAY that way without really working his issues.

Hang in there. You can do it. I already took mine back, and I'm regretting it. I mostly did it so I could look back and say I'd given him a chance to actually try(because he sure didn't prior to the separation). So at least I have that. He blew it. I'd like him to actually get "some" better, but if being separated and scared(and he was scared) didn't make him be any better... .I sort of give up hope that he can be at this point. He resents me for wanting him to stop being abusive.

I know I'm a factor in our marriage, but I killed myself trying, and I didn't blow our marriage up with my moods, anger and blame. HE did.

You are being smart and looking out for yourself. I just started doing that too, and it feels so good. I'll admit I'm scared, but being scared beats where I have been these last few years.

And some marriages and relationships with a PD do survive without a therapist, but you can be sure that the non PD person is the one suffering in silence or enduring all the hurt. Some people just have the ability to do that(and to me that certainly doesn't seem healthy).  Most people are not willing or able to do that long term, and they shouldn't have to.

I want to be happy and healthy, and out of this constant chaos. I'm going to get there with or without him. So will you if you want it bad enough, and I can tell that you do.

Keep us posted, and come here often. It keeps me sane.

[hope2727]

Hi thanks for the response. I am sorry you are enduring all that. You sound very strong.

I would love to write his therapist a letter but I don't know who she is. He won't tell me.  At first he was all over my coming to meet him in therapy. Then when I started to exhibit my old self (who doesn't take crap) he backed out. Last week I found out about a whole convoluted lie he told me and asked him about it. He denied of course. So then he was absolute that I would never meet his therapist. I truly believe he has been lying to her. I know he manipulated the truth with the last one.

So I just have to sit and wait. I am exhausted. I want my best friend back. But he has been consumed by this monster. I have to keep living my life and leave him to his but it is so hard.

Thanks again for the support.

[Ceruleanblue]

Something it helped me to realize is that the "friend" who I initially fell in love with wasn't really the real man. That man was just smoke and mirrors. It was the man he created, and he was no more real than Santa Claus. I used to grieve over that fact, but now I know it's all part of the BPD, or personality disorder issue. If they showed us the real them, we'd have RUN! They may be disordered in some way, but they certainly don't lack intelligence. They lack insight into their own issues at times, but they are expert manipulators.

I think my uBPDh also lies to his therapist, or at least he slants the truth or leaves huge parts out. He feeds his therapist his skewed perspective, and his perspective IS his only reality. He refuses to empathize or consider that things he does effect me. It's all about HIM.

I want my "friend" back too, but it's probably never going to happen, or if it does he'll probably again split me to black. I guess I've gotten to the point where I don't care as much what he thinks. I mean, he doesn't care to know or see the true me. He doesn't want to see how kind I am, or how even with people who have treated me badly, I keep trying,  because it matters to him(speaking of his hateful daughters here). He just doesn't want to see me as "good", so why should I care? It's HIS loss. And I guess I no longer value his opinion so much, because I see how dysfunctional, and skewed his view is. I can love him, but still see his flaws. He sees what he views to be my flaws, but he has trouble acting loving towards me.

Like you, I'm focusing on me now. He's still here, but he's only still here on my grace. He's here on a trial basis, because I'm pretty fed up. He pushed me too far, and I eventually pushed back. I actually think the way you are doing this is much safer and healthier. I wish my uBPDH had stayed gone until his meds had kicked in better, and he'd done more extensive therapy. He's still wasting time with his therapist who he's been with three years... .the one he's been with while he was escalating wildly. This is the thinking of a person with BPD. Ugh!

Hang in there. One day of no contact at a time.

[ziniztar]

Hi hope2727,

First of all:  

Second of all: you set a very firm boundary on what you expect from him and what type of behaviour you will not tolerate . However, boundaries are not threats and do not have to be explained to the person you are setting your boundary against. It is about protecting yourself, not about taking something away from someone else. Now you are the one waiting for him to return and cave in, expecting yourself to 'be strong', but still suffering... that cannot be a good place to be in (believe me I've been there  ).

My boundary is we attend the psychologist together or he doesn't get to see me. Period.

He will either meet my boundary and we can start to rebuild or he won't and then he never would have.

Is there any way you could loosen up this boundary? I am in no way explaining you should accept abusive behaviour! Any type of verbal, emotional or physical abuse should be fought with consistent boundaries... however... they describe what you will do. So if he does X you will do Y. You could take a shower, read a book, go to your parents, call a friend... but it does not describe what he does or does not get in return for not meeting your boundary.

Maybe he is willing to work on the relationship (after all he is going to therapy), but it is just too much for him yet. I know my dBPDbf and I have talked about me going to his therapy sessions, but he is too afraid of letting me in. It's his safe place, it took a long time to built trust between he and his T, and I'm guessing he's afraid I will change those dynamics. And he's right, because I will. He needs to be up for the task before letting me in.

Even though I am hurt he won't let me in - I don't force him to. Forcing anyone into any type of behaviour is a form of controlling, and we'd rather stay away from that. I would advise you to take a look at this: PERSPECTIVES: Conflict Dynamics - The Three Faces of Victim

Best of luck  

[hope2727]

Hi and thank you all for responding. It is soo hard.

I would love to loosen the boundary but every time I give an inch he takes a mile.

He is the one who wanted me to come to therapy but now he is changing the rules. This is typical of him. He will say "I will do x by Y date." then when the date rolls around and nothing is done and I say ummm whats happening here he goes " Oh no I said Q date" or "I changed my mind now I am going to do ... .whatever" But he never includes me in this process and never informs me unless I ask and I am always the one who ends up holding the bag when things go wrong and then I am to blame of course.

He became verbally and emotionally abusive and exhibited stalker behaviour at the end right before blaming me for his psychotic break (which happened at work and had nothing to do with me) so I will not meet him without a therapist present. I have made it very clear that if the relationship is to continue we need the help of a therapist and I need to be involved in his therapy process at least to a limited extent. He has let me down so many times and left me picking up the pieces of his mess that this time I have to protect myself.

SO yes I would love to just go hug it all better but that is not possible. This time we need help and we need to approach it as a team.

Sigh. I really miss him today.

[hope2727]

Oh yes and thanks for the link zinizatar. 

I appreciate it. I have actually seen that one before in counselling with my ex-husband a life time ago. I was totally a rescuer. I work hard to be supportive but not enabling. Its a hard path sometimes but I am in fact the queen of 'you did it you figure out how to undo it".

I do respect my partner immensely. He comes from a background of abuse. He has overcome where most would not. He can take on the victim role sometimes and act like he is helpless and hopeless but I hate that and am careful to point out that he is both capable and talented. Somehow in the last year his stresses have triggered him to flip to persecutor. It is so weird. He started at a different job and I think the dynamic there is super unhealthy. He works with his best friend who my partner admits is the biggest narcissist ever. The friend is borderline abusive and VERY influential. I can't tell you the number of times I have had my partner come home crying, literally crying, about how he has been treated. But just like an abused spouse when the friend calls he comes. I have noted the dynamic in counselling with my partner (when he was willing to go). And he admits to then taking his frustration out on me when he is treated poorly. But still he hero worships the guy. Its so weird.

So now he lives elsewhere and flips from taking responsibility in one breath to blaming me in the next. It is dizzying. I am reading stop waling on eggshells and practicing SET (not successfully yet) and trying to be patient.

Mostly I am trying to take care of me. He has left a path of chaos in his wake and I need to take a break from all the emotional turmoil. The whole I hate you don't leave me dynamic can be so overwhelming.

I am re-reading Codependant no More and Boundaries and Trying to centre myself for the long haul. All other links reading lists and suggestions are welcome. Its always good to re-learn things that I have let slip. And I in no way want to be a victim or a persecutor or an enabler. Ugg I have worked way to hard to be happy in my own skin to go backwards.

Oh and than you for the hug, I really needed that today.