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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: D17 worries about her weight.  (Read 548 times)
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« on: August 23, 2014, 12:20:00 AM »

D17 runs cross-country and eats a very good diet.  When she was younger she was slightly puffy, but now she is in very good condition - not a great athlete but very healthy.  All year round, she runs almost every day.

Wednesday I took her for her school physical, and the doctor was a middle-aged guy - nice but clueless.  He looked at the chart and said, "Your height is in the 75th percentile and your weight is in the 80th percentile - are you trying to lose weight?"  If he had just looked at her he could have seen that she doesn't need to lose weight.

She got upset and the doctor left the room, and she cried.  She said that her BPD mom, and her mom's sister, both of whom are pretty heavy, have said things to her, like if she drinks anything other than water, ":)o you know how many calories are in that?".  She says some kids have said things about her weight, and S16 and I have made jokes - I asked her "What jokes?" because I don't remember that - she didn't remember but I said I was sorry if I ever said anything about her weight.

I told her I have no concerns about her weight.  I said when someone says something like that, she can either tell them she doesn't like it and ask them not to say things like that again, or she can say nothing and "If it doesn't apply, let it fly."  I think she heard me, but she didn't say much.

The next day we talked about it some more but she still didn't talk much.

Maybe I could talk to her mom, if I could manage that without her thinking I was accusing her of something.  But I'm inclined to focus more on D17 - maybe let it go for a while and then find a time to ask her how it's going.

I know her cross-country coach fairly well, and she's kind of tough and can be a jerk at times, but she's also pretty perceptive and she thinks very highly of D17.  Another set of eyes and ears... .
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 10:45:37 AM »

Don't know if talking to mom is a good idea. I stopped trying to co parent with my ex years ago and things work better. Coach might be a better direction to go.

Maybe find another doc that has better bedside manners.

Our 15 year old doesn't fit the charts very well and has been told he is in the higher percentiles in weight for years now. He is currently a stringbean at 6'1" and is in the higher percentiles. He always was the tallest kid in his class and he got that so it was not an issue. I never had a girl and with peer pressure and advertising it probably is much different than my situation.
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 12:15:37 PM »

Don't know if talking to mom is a good idea. I stopped trying to co parent with my ex years ago and things work better. Coach might be a better direction to go.

Maybe find another doc that has better bedside manners.

Our 15 year old doesn't fit the charts very well and has been told he is in the higher percentiles in weight for years now. He is currently a stringbean at 6'1" and is in the higher percentiles. He always was the tallest kid in his class and he got that so it was not an issue. I never had a girl and with peer pressure and advertising it probably is much different than my situation.

Yeah, her mom's thinking is so twisted, it's hard to know what to say that will make things better.  Usually I've had more success suggesting how the kids can deal with her, than influencing her.

The thing is, D17 is not overweight.  If you saw her walking down the street, you would think she was very pretty - not at all heavy.  This is entirely a matter of weird perceptions from the media, her mom, her aunt, and maybe some kids at school (though I think most of her friends are pretty nice).

She also said that both S17 and I have made jokes about her weight, but I'm not sure that's true.  I told her I'm sorry if I ever did that, but I don't think she's heavy at all.  (If anybody needs to lose a little weight, it's me - I'm healthy but in my 50s and heavier than I was at her age.)
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2014, 01:45:26 PM »

Is the (clueless) doctor using the BMI (body mass index) to gauge height/weight? If so, Michael Jordan at his most fit would qualify as obese on the BMI.

Your D might have heavier bones or have more muscle mass than fat, and be in a higher percentage for weight to height because she's fit. Running every day probably puts her in the top 5% for fitness for most American teenagers, I would guess.

It's really really hard to get through to a teen girl about weight. It might be better to counter the doctor (expert) and facts (BMI) with something else that seems objective. A better gauge is body fat percentage, or something that doesn't rank her on data points like height and weight, which is pretty imperfect. And if you were mad at the doctor, tell D that. I've found that when I point out stuff to S13, like how someone behaves rudely, or acts ignorantly, it helps him put the other person in perspective. Hard to do with a doctor, who is supposed to know everything. But doctors really don't know that much about nutrition -- most get zero training. Zero.

I wouldn't bother talking to your ex about it. If you thought that would make a difference, you might as well talk to everyone, including all of Hollywood, every magazine, every ad, TV show... .

Also, if your ex is heavy, and worries about her weight, she is probably not going to see why telling D17 to watch calories is a bad thing. Even if she wasn't BPD.

My dad, who is overweight, told me when I was 17 that I was going to have a weight problem my whole life. It was devastating. Especially because at the time I was thin. If anything, I was underweight. I realize now that he was projecting his own stuff on me. Maybe it was even a way of exerting control, I dunno.



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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2014, 02:07:12 PM »

No, the doctor didn't mention the BMI.  I think he was reacting to two things:  80% (percentile for weight) is greater than 75% (percentile for height), and she had written on her paperwork something about hoping to lose weight.

Of course 80% and 75% are very close, and there are lots of high school girls who keep their weight lower than what is healthy - lots with eating disorders or just bad diets.  So that difference between 80% and 75% would not be a cause for concern if he had some basic common sense.

The other thing - what she wrote on her form - should have prompted the exact opposite approach from the doctor - he should have been telling her that her weight and height are well-proportioned, and that if she is running almost every day she is surely in very good condition, and with no other symptoms of bad health - no reason to be concerned about her weight.  He should have told her, "Keep doing what you're doing.  Every 17-year-old girl should take care of herself as well as you do!".

Not a bad guy, just thoughtless.  I might aim for a different doctor next time, but usually it's a question of who is available.  (It's a clinic that caters to Native Americans, so I save quite a bit by taking the kids there, and generally the staff is super-helpful - overall a good place, just with this one doctor with a blind spot.)

And yes, she's not muscular, but she probably has a little more muscle and less fat than most girls her age, and muscle is more dense than fat.  All stuff I have explained to her, but it would have been nice if the doctor had gone there too.

I did share with her afterward that I thought the doctor had handled it poorly.  This probably isn't really about her weight or appearance per se;  she projects a lot of confidence and un-sinkable-ness, but I think there is probably a part of her that doubts her self-worth.

Her mom is a master at pushing peoples' buttons - a genius at saying exactly what will make you feel bad about yourself.  When we were married, I was in my 30s and 40s, with a good education, a good career, and at least fairly good-looking, and my parents raised me to be confident.  But it was a constant challenge, when I was around her, to remember, "I'm a good person.  I know what I know.  I'm not crazy.  I'm not stupid.  I'm not lazy.  I'm honest." - a degree of self-affirmation I'd never had to bother with, just to stay reasonably balanced.  That only changed when I got away from her and reduced my interaction with her by about 99.9%.

SS35 was raised by her, alone, and has very serious problems, mainly around self-worth.  SD25, not so much, but I'm not sure.  S16 is with me most of the time, and he has some issues, but not too bad I think.  D17 seems the most confident of the lot, and she's with me most of the time too, but she spends more time with her mom than I wish she did, and I'm pretty sure that is what's going on here.  Her mom just can't let someone be happy and confident.

And no, I don't think I can probably fix the way her mom talks to her about her weight any more than I can fix all the images in the media.  D17 is smart about all that - she has posted stuff on her Facebook page about the images of women in the media, and I think she has some good influences in her life, like her cross-country coach - strong and healthy women who are aware of media images and skeptical without being militant.  That's where I think D17 is going - led by her brain.

By the way, she doesn't really date at all - most of her friends are girls, but some boys, but I've encouraged her not to "pair off" but to hang out with groups, like for prom, and that's mostly what she has done.  She doesn't do the thing where girls dress to be "hot" - she wears pretty stuff and I know she cares about her appearance but nothing even remotely inappropriate.  So my sense is she has a very good grip on who she is at this age, and isn't too eager to see herself as overly sexual.  I feel really good about all that.  (Her mom has some issues about that - similar to others with BPD I think.)

So it's more a matter of supporting her choices, which are very good, than changing D17... .
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2014, 02:46:49 PM »

I've got two little girls of my own, and the thought of having to deal with this in 10 years is a personal nightmare. At that age I'm not sure it matters at all what you're body looks like. Everyone as a teenager has some issue with their bodies. Lord knows I had issues with how I viewed my body in highschool. In my head I was either too fat, or didn't have enough muscle mass. Neither of those was remotely true. Now that I'm thirty I look back in envy at what my body was back then. Getting teenagers to realize these things though is difficult at best. You know what they say: The wisdom of age is wasted on the aged. Or something like that Smiling (click to insert in post)


All kidding aside it sounds like you're doing a pretty darn good job raising your daughter. Her knowing that she has a caring, supportive father that thinks the world of her is going to go a long way to getting her through stuff like this.

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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2014, 09:17:48 PM »

All kidding aside it sounds like you're doing a pretty darn good job raising your daughter. Her knowing that she has a caring, supportive father that thinks the world of her is going to go a long way to getting her through stuff like this.

Yep  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

My kids doc always shows us the percentile chart. Partly to make sure they are growing normally and the other... .government guidelines   That was poor thinking though of him asking your daughter if she was trying to loose weight. My doc asks the kids if they can name the foods on the food group, are they eating the foods on the food group and  if they are they exercising. If yes , good. And if there are any concerns.     A person has to be fit for cross country so to be me your D is doing great.   I would not say anything just yet to ex. But since the doc asked her about weight and it did upset her maybe just keep a watchful eye on D's eating in the sense that it stays the was it was and does not go in the other direction of not eating.
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2014, 09:24:11 PM »

Thanks guys.

I would not say anything just yet to ex. But since the doc asked her about weight and it did upset her maybe just keep a watchful eye on D's eating in the sense that it stays the was it was and does not go in the other direction of not eating.

This is one of my concerns - she might get into some eating disorder, and I'm not sure I'd know... .
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2014, 10:41:53 PM »

I didn't want to add more worry. Anorexic is starving yourself and bulimia is eating but throwing it all up afterwards. I think these are gradual in starting.  Hopefully the doc's comment passes, (her mom is a different story) and she stays the same diet and exercise. My S was in CC and after running he wasn't hungry so if D is not hungry after running don't worry.

At 17, does she still have health in school? If need be , beside the coach you can tell your concerns to the health teacher.
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2014, 10:44:32 PM »

That must be so frustrating. I admire your composure for not going off on the doctor. I hear the voice of my mother, an RN for 40 years, who used to complain about doctors like that.

Is it possible to get a second opinion? BMI uses the height and weight charts. At least he didn't go there. By BMI, I'm obese, but neither it, nor the percentiles account for musculature. A health worker who did an on site work screening said to disregard my BMI. S4's in the 90th and 95th percentiles for weight and height, respectively. Your daughter's still growing, too.
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2014, 10:51:01 PM »

At 17, does she still have health in school? If need be , beside the coach you can tell your concerns to the health teacher.

Yes, she's taking Health now.  I don't know that teacher but it would be easy to contact her.  I do know the CC coach pretty well, and if I asked her to help, I'm sure she would have good insights - sometimes D17 tells her stuff she doesn't tell me... .

D17's big brother is a recovering addict - alcohol and other stuff - now sober for almost 6 years - which I believe started with emotional stresses from his mom.  I don't think D17 is at high risk for substance abuse, because she has seen the consequences of drinking and drugs, but I think eating disorders are another kind of addiction.  But for now I don't see that happening, just something I can watch out for.
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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2014, 10:57:02 PM »

That must be so frustrating. I admire your composure for not going off on the doctor. I hear the voice of my mother, an RN for 40 years, who used to complain about doctors like that.

Is it possible to get a second opinion? BMI uses the height and weight charts. At least he didn't go there. By BMI, I'm obese, but neither it, nor the percentiles account for musculature. A health worker who did an on site work screening said to disregard my BMI. S4's in the 90th and 95th percentiles for weight and height, respectively. Your daughter's still growing, too.

Well I tend to under-react to stuff, which is usually a good thing, but once in a while I think maybe I should give people a piece of my mind.  But in this case, I'm sure he didn't realize what he was doing, and I'm also sure that D17, like every other young woman, is always going to be subject to our society's weird ideas about how women should look, so it's probably more important to help her with that than to try to keep her away from anybody that might contribute to the problem.

I hadn't thought about a second opinion, but I think maybe that would be giving too much weight to the whole issue.  My thinking would be to just check in with D17 from time to time, and see how she is doing with it.

Meanwhile, she is looking at colleges, and one that came up high in her search is where I went to school - the state where I grew up and where my family still is.  D17 e-mailed my two sisters, and my brother, and his wife, asking them to help her with a trip to see that school, and they all responded with a lot of excitement.  I want her to go to the best school she can, and I'm not sure if that will be her top choice, but I'm very encouraged that she might be around my family, who are all good people and think the world of her.  I think that would help her stay balanced when she goes to college.
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2014, 11:17:47 PM »

I think you're right that it would give too much weight to his comment. You know your daughter. It's great that she's focused on schools an you have the support of family. It must be very exciting, though maybe sad to see you baby leave the nest.

Body image and societal pressures are frustrating. I saw a new member the other day comment in upon her son who had an eating disorder. I've read that eating disorders are on the rise with boys now.

My Ex has a borderline eating disorder, no pun intended (well, maybe). She commented last month that she was concerned about D2's belly. That D2 likes carbs (bread, crackers) doesn't help. uBPDx was anemic when I met her, due to her experiment with being a vegetarian. Hopefully, your D17 is smart enough to not internalize comments from her mom.
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2014, 01:23:28 PM »

Hopefully, your D17 is smart enough to not internalize comments from her mom.

D17 is smart and perceptive, but her mom has this amazing super-power:  she can somehow, with a few words, reach inside you and pull out about 90% of your self-worth.  Even if you know she is doing it - I was in my mid-30s when we got married and after a year or so I knew what she was doing - it still hurts - you're so busy feeling bad about yourself you don't focus on her role in it.
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« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2014, 01:29:45 PM »

Hopefully, your D17 is smart enough to not internalize comments from her mom.

D17 is smart and perceptive, but her mom has this amazing super-power:  she can somehow, with a few words, reach inside you and pull out about 90% of your self-worth.  Even if you know she is doing it - I was in my mid-30s when we got married and after a year or so I knew what she was doing - it still hurts - you're so busy feeling bad about yourself you don't focus on her role in it.

I think most of us know how that is. Mine had the tone of voice which telegraphed, "you're an idiot, why don't you know how to do this?" I've observed her do it with her family members, and they just step back rather than challenging it. Even with our limited contact as co-parents, which is decent compared to many here, I've heard that tone creep into her voice now and then. I guess that's about me still not dealing with it too well. Almost 25 years out of the house, I'm pretty immune to it with my BPD mother (where it was words rather than tone). Being cognizant now, we can help support our kids to not fall into the same way of thinking. I've heard their mom use that tone on S4 (due to her admitted distrust of men).
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2014, 02:28:56 PM »

Well I'm not sure I've found the best way to help the kids see what their mom does to them, without making them feel like I'm attacking her.

I try not to raise the subject except when it's clear that there has been an "attack" on one of them, and then I try to just say what I know - "Sounds like your mom made you feel bad and maybe that wasn't fair... .?" - clear but not too blunt.  I think both kids (S16 and D17) do get it, but aren't very good at protecting themselves from her super-power.

But I think they're both doing OK, and it's likely they will both go to school somewhere else - the only colleges where we live are probably not the best fit for them - so they'll have four years with more distance from her, and that might help.
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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2014, 07:44:00 PM »

Hi Matt,

My SO's daughter is also struggling with body image issues she is a lovely almost 14 year old. The other night she was trying on  some "skinny jeans" in a size that were too small for her.  She said but I'm size ** and he told her not to focus on the size but on what was comfortable and fit properly. I really liked that response because it wasn't invalidating like it could have been.  He could have just told her she is a beautiful girl (which she is  Smiling (click to insert in post)) but that would have invalidated her feelings so instead he just took her in another direction and refocused her attention on finding something that had a nice fit.

I just put together a CD for her for her upcoming birthday.  It's a GIRRRRRRRRRRRRRL POWER CD and I loaded it with songs about being proud to be a girl/woman, self acceptance, body acceptance, pride in being smart and ended it with "Girls just Want to Have Fun!"  I hope she likes it and I hope that she gets the message that she is perfect just the way she is.  But it is hard to be you when the message you receive from the outside world and unfortunately her uBPDmom is that you must look and act a certain way to be popular/loved.

I'm so sorry the doctor was so incredibly insensitive to your daughter!  Body image is a tough one I would guess the most women struggle or have struggled with it.  All I can say is just love your daughter for who she is and so she knows it 

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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2014, 10:58:48 AM »

Hi Matt,

My SO's daughter is also struggling with body image issues she is a lovely almost 14 year old. The other night she was trying on  some "skinny jeans" in a size that were too small for her.  She said but I'm size ** and he told her not to focus on the size but on what was comfortable and fit properly. I really liked that response because it wasn't invalidating like it could have been.  He could have just told her she is a beautiful girl (which she is  Smiling (click to insert in post)) but that would have invalidated her feelings so instead he just took her in another direction and refocused her attention on finding something that had a nice fit.

I just put together a CD for her for her upcoming birthday.  It's a GIRRRRRRRRRRRRRL POWER CD and I loaded it with songs about being proud to be a girl/woman, self acceptance, body acceptance, pride in being smart and ended it with "Girls just Want to Have Fun!"  I hope she likes it and I hope that she gets the message that she is perfect just the way she is.  But it is hard to be you when the message you receive from the outside world and unfortunately her uBPDmom is that you must look and act a certain way to be popular/loved.

I'm so sorry the doctor was so incredibly insensitive to your daughter!  Body image is a tough one I would guess the most women struggle or have struggled with it.  All I can say is just love your daughter for who she is and so she knows it 

Thanks!
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