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Author Topic: Terrible night - need help deciphering this..please  (Read 401 times)
nightmoves
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
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« on: August 23, 2014, 11:12:44 AM »

At my wits end.

I am truly hoping there are those out there who can help me figure that out. Or at the very least, offer feedback so as to keep my from going insane with this stuff.

Quick synopses:

Wife very LD. I am HD. Has stated that sex has simply never been a “high priority” for her. Stated that sex “has always stressed her out”. She has BPD – and with it - the ever present irrationality, rage, blame, and all the unpredictability that ensues.

Sex over the years…started good. Albeit I was far more experienced and freer with my sexuality and truly enjoyed an entire life of wonderful sex and intimacy. At first, she seemed so happy like she was brought into a world of color. That said, I really loved her and she …to this day…does something to me that no other woman has. I still desire her as much today (if not more) than long ago.

So fast forward.

Sex soon after marriage and kids, began to seriously take a turn. Frequency fell off dramatically. She indeed did showcase a lack of desire and as she mentioned it was not even on the radar to some degree. That said – we continued to have sex AND we were both enjoying it. In fact, WHEN we had sex... even if she did not seem to be fully there at first…she really got there during.

I have ALWAYS been the one who needed to initiate. She would NEVER …since day one.

This was the first time I had ever experienced that to such a dramatic degree. I talked about it – and she just said that I would have to…she just could not. SO …I did. And over the years…I was thus rejected …more …and more…

In fact – it seemed like I was set up to be somewhat “controlled” that way.

I was the one who wanted a wonderful and happy and intimate sex life. (she would at least SAY she agreed)

SHE, because of ME being the one who initiated, suggested, asked seemed to be the one who thus controlled the when and if.

We even went thru a point where she actually took sex off the table all together. (painful time).

I hung in there. I do love her. I do want us to stay together.

But this became truly unbearable. In fact, while the no sex was almost impossible to accept and deal with, the lack of affection, touch, kindness and appreciation. Was excruciating. She vaguely stated that there was none of that forthcoming, so as to not wrongly signify an overt or purposed lead up to sex.

So…about half a year ago…I (even to me) found myself at wits end. I really found myself calmly coming to a realization that I could not go on this way. Did not want to end my marriage or my family. But was equally at a point that something had to happen.

And then?

She reintroduced sex back into our marriage. (huh?)

I was happy…but there was a part of me that was thrown a bit if not a bit angry.

So... just like that? What? So, WHY could we not have found a way to get back to here far before now?

But here is the thing.

The VERY first time after it was back on the table that I then initiated…I was met at best with a hesitant or reluctant ok.

The second time (weeks apart) She said that I was now "pushing”…or “pressuring”. (WHAT?)

To be clear…I do NOT do that.

In fact…have learned that the very best way to initiate is the most subtle possible. It almost has to be that I cannot showcase “too much” desire. I try to put it hardly out there. Text. Suggest maybe dinner out. Etc. I suppose part of it is as well to reduce the all too often pain of rejection.

So we have continued to have some sex. (average of couple times a month) BUT…it has to be HIGHLY orchestrated and almost “by accident”.

She has resumed the NO initiation again. SO…I am left to do that.

In the first few months…she was open enough to even quasi initiate so much as to meet the suggestions for a nice weekend or night with some dialog or interest.

Then…it became a situation where …if we made love at one point…and it was a nice time. Enjoyable time away... etc…IF a couple weeks even later I suggested we do again…was met with anger. Suggestion that “we JUST did”….”it’s never enough”…”I knew this would happen”….”you are pressuring me”…

Now let me be REALLY clear again. I do not and have not EVER pressured for sex. So THAT is a really tough statement to hear. AND I clearly wince each time.

SO ---all this leads me up to the recent incidence I need some people to help me understand or dissect.

We were “in agreement” to have sex about 2 weeks ago one night. AS we go to the night…she announced she was too tired. I said ok (was disappointed) but let it go. She said how about tomorrow night.

Tomorrow night arrives -I suggest we go out to a nice dinner.

As the day goes on…she seems bent on us getting into an argument. Any argument. About ANYTHING…

I avoid it... so she simply makes and issue up to get angry at me. Preposterous at that. But – you guessed it…dinner she calls off. And so – is any possibility of sex.

Fast forward to last night.

We had a REALLY nice day together. (rare in a BPD world). Went out to lunch at a favorite place. Took a walk. Had a great time talking about us, future, etc…Was truly great…close. Even held hands and kissed a bit. We told each other how much we loved one another etc. This continued thru the day.

Later on way home…I suggested we carve out some time for us later.

She said “OK. But I won’t want to if I wind up tired later”.

I inside was thinking “what?” Now predicting tired? But I let it go and said something like “ok…if so we at some point really should try to figure out a way we can find time for us when not so tired”

Anyway – the early evening came.

I finished all the tasks for the day …picked up and shuttled the kids here and there... came home and she said she needed wine. So I headed BACK out to get some. (my wife …from day ONE …has ALWAYS needed alcohol when having sex. I have asked – and she has stated that “sex has always stressed her out”... ”alcohol reduces her stress”)

I return with it.

Eventually she heads up to bed.

I follow shortly afterward.

We lie in bed and talk about anything she wants to for over an hour. (this is ALWAYS the case. IF I make a move “to soon”... she get angry. It is almost as though sex needs to be NOT overtly stated. IN some odd way I cannot SHOW my desire to her. (Which is a complete mystery to me as ME HAVING desire for her I would think would be a good thing(?)

Anyway…usually the sex starts with me eventually starting to caress or begin to take her top off. I am a very attentive lover so I do not rush into anything and she eventually does get very responsive.

This night... after talking about things…she states that “she is not going to be able to “be there” tonight”…

“too stressed... ”…

I asked her why she was stressed? Then she dropped the horrible statement on me. “ I feel pressured”….”I am not into it tonight…for whatever reason”...

And I was REALLY nice about it. But she would not STOP being really angry and almost made up pissed. And saying some really nasty things. I kept asking what is wrong? Why are you stressed? WHAT in the world could I have possibly done to make you feel pressure?

I also at least said …”I do not feel that I did anything wrong. I had a great and intimate day with you…I felt GREAT feelings for you…and I wanted to make love to you”…

Her answer? “you just need a release”….”you are like all men”…

I was really shocked at this stuff. But I stayed calm and said…”what is driving this”?

She said that she decided she was not “in a good spot to have se” and that I need to respect that.

I said I really do respect that... I do NOT want to if she does not. But WHY all this ugliness? WHY or WHAT or HOW could she possibly feel like I did anything wrong or caused her to feel pressure?

I asked “when did you feel pressure”?

She said …”the moment you first asked”.

SO – everyone – PLEASE help me with this…

SHE will not initiate. I am left to do that. I HARDLY ask anywhere NEAR the frequency commiserate when I feel sexual or desire her.

I am VERY careful to ONLY suggest when there MIGHT be a possibility.

I am turned down – or excuses are eventually made/arguments manufactured approximately 90% of the time even at that.

SO …PLEASE …if anyone –especially any women can weigh in on what this is.

My sanity is at stake... .(said only partly in jest... .)
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workinprogress
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 548


« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2014, 11:30:00 AM »

NM, your life mirrors mine for the last 16 years!

Nothing they say or do sexually makes any sense.

If you try to have sex with your wife, she will get angry.

If you don't try to have sex with her, she will say your gay.

I recall being so on edge just trying to hug her (because she got angry) that I would preface a hug by saying, "I'm not coming onto you."  I was a nervous wreck.

Then, I find out she is out propositioning other guys.

One particular time years ago, after I hadn't seen her naked in almost a year, we were out with some friends.  The friends suggest we swap partners.  My wife was all for it!  I was angry about this.  I openly told everyone at the table, "I haven't seen my wife naked in months, and now I'm supposed to let her be with someone else?  There is no way in hell!"

BTW, the guy was so not in her league.  Which also amazed me.

The best thing you can do NM, if you stay in the marriage, is just to forget about sex.  Sorry... .
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vortex of confusion
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3234



« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2014, 11:42:49 AM »

I am turned down – or excuses are eventually made/arguments manufactured approximately 90% of the time even at that.

SO …PLEASE …if anyone –especially any women can weigh in on what this is.

My sanity is at stake... .(said only partly in jest... .)

Don't lose your sanity over this!  

I don't know if I can help you decipher anything but I can at least commiserate a bit. Since I have found this forum, I have felt less alone because I can see that other people are having some of these same confusing experiences. I am still trying to make sense of things but at least I don't feel quite so alone or crazy.

A lot of the same things happen in our house. I am the female yet I am the one that has always had to initiate. I find it odd because my husband is a sex addict. He could look at porn and take care of himself but could never really get into having sex with me. I would have to initiate and do all of the work. There were certain things that I had to do if I wanted to be physical with my spouse. There are even times when things seem to be going just fine and then he will lose interest in the middle of things.

If I didn't initiate on a regular basis, things would be said and it would be clear that he was interested. I didn't understand how he could be interested yet NOT initiate. And then, it seems like there are times when he knows that I am not interested that he will try to initiate and will then get upset and make a big deal out of the fact that I rejected him. It would then become, "I don't initiate because you reject me when I do." I find that confusing because I rarely say no because I know that saying no comes with consequences.

I have stopped initiating and have not been physical with him for a while because he tried to tell me that he had erectile dysfunction. I tried a little experiment one time and started telling him about my affair. He got real excited and real into and everything was fine. Things will only work in certain settings and for certain reasons. I don't feel like it is possible for us to be physical in a "normal" way.

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nightmoves
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 121



« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2014, 11:51:26 AM »

Thank you for the replies... .

Vortex, I laughed at the "don't lose your sanity over this"... .

If only ... .

Vortex... .sorry to hear you are going through this. Hope it gets better.

Hey - you are a woman - so you understand women... .(all men believe that this is an easy truth... .LOL)

What hit you when you read my recount of my wife. In other words... .what do you think may be causing her to act this way... .say these things?

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vortex of confusion
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3234



« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2014, 12:47:36 PM »

Hey - you are a woman - so you understand women... .(all men believe that this is an easy truth... .LOL)

What hit you when you read my recount of my wife. In other words... .what do you think may be causing her to act this way... .say these things?

One of the first questions that came to mind was, ":)id your wife ever experience any sexual abuse as a child?"

Also, one of the things that a lot of guys fail to realize is the pressure that is put on women by society to be a certain way. If you don't put out at all, you are cold and frigid. If you put out too much or like sex too much, you are a whore or a slut. Lots of mixed messages that interfere with marital relations.

I would like to think of myself as a woman that is pretty open and honest about sexuality. That doesn't always work out so well in some circles. Does your wife have any religious affiliations? Some religions are very, very specific about what is okay with regards to physical relations. Some religions seem to think that the only time physical relations are okay is when they are focused on procreation. Of course, there is also the double standards between men and women. Men are supposed to want it all of the time and women aren't supposed to want it ever. At one point, I was really upset over things with my spouse so I talked to his mother. I was very vague but was basically wondering if it was normal for a guy to prefer porn and self pleasure over his wife. Her response was, "I was always glad when he took care of things himself because that meant he wasn't bothering me." So, it might help ease your mind a bit if you look at your wife's history.

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