Accepting the truth of my situation

[vortex of confusion]

One of the things that I am experiencing the most difficulty with is accepting things as they are. One of my core issues is accepting the truth of my situation. Every time I feel like I am making some kind of progress, something will happen and I will talk myself out of it. For example, my husband was acting out and posting ads looking for women. I got mad and threw a fit and I looked for other living arrangements for me and our girls. I found an out. It seemed to shake him up enough that he started taking SAA more seriously. He stopped posting ads and took down all of the ones that he had up. Everything seemed to get so much better. After things get better, I start wondering why was I so mad. Maybe I am simply perceiving things wrong.

I am trying to break it off with a guy that I had an affair with and my husband is so supportive and helpful with that. Oddly so. A normal person would be completely pi**ed off if his/her spouse had an affair. Not only did my husband encourage me to have an affair, he would ask for details. For a while, the only way he could be physical with me was if I gave him details.

I know I don't like him talking to other women if he has certain intentions. I am by no means a jealous person but I don't like the idea of sharing my spouse with anyone. I feel like I am the one with the double standard because I had an ongoing affair. I allowed him to use me as a friggin' sex object. I allowed him to act out through me. If I was the one doing bad stuff and telling him about it, he got to hold on to his sobriety. It makes me sick at my stomach to even think about it.

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[MissyM]

Vortex, I am in somewhat a similar situation.  My dBPDh is also a sex addict.  He is fully engaged in recovery, SA, he does individual therapy once a week with a CSAT, does group therapy with a CSAT, talks to his sponsor daily, meets with his sponsor once a week, started on a new antidepressant and we do DBT therapy for couples together.  I go to COSA and Alanon, do group therapy (for spouses of SAs) with a CSAT, individual therapy with a CSAT and a step study.  

I didn't have affairs but I know that for my husband and I to continue on to have a healthy relationship, it takes all of this work.  I have been doing some level of work for 3 years and the last year have really stepped it up.  My dBPDh was only diagnosed with BPD in January and his recovery became remarkable better in May, when he decided to fully engage.  Recovery is a long road for an SA, and when you add in BPD it takes even more help.  SA wasn't my husband's first addiction, he switched after stopping drugs but the recovery from it is still intense because his thinking is off.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, I am in somewhat a similar situation.  My dBPDh is also a sex addict.  He is fully engaged in recovery, SA, he does individual therapy once a week with a CSAT, does group therapy with a CSAT, talks to his sponsor daily, meets with his sponsor once a week, started on a new antidepressant and we do DBT therapy for couples together.  I go to COSA and Alanon, do group therapy (for spouses of SAs) with a CSAT, individual therapy with a CSAT and a step study.  

My husband goes to one meeting a week. He doesn't like the Saturday morning meeting because it is too long. He has only been to a couple of counseling sessions but is talking about discontinuing with his counselor. I feel like it is my fault that he is thinking about stopping. I made the mistake of asking him what kinds of tools she was giving him to work with in the here and now. Her focus seems to be on his childhood and his mother. Since he is going maybe once a month, there isn't a lot of change. There is some change and some improvement but that is mostly focused on him not acting out. He is still very childlike in that he pouts and seems to take everything I say to the extreme.

Recovery is a long road for an SA, and when you add in BPD it takes even more help.  SA wasn't my husband's first addiction, he switched after stopping drugs but the recovery from it is still intense because his thinking is off.

I don't know for certain whether or not my husband has BPD but I do know that reading through these forums and looking at the symptoms provides a lot more help and hope than looking at SA literature alone. His lack of ability to make connections between things has always had me a bit perplexed. And so has his childlike behavior. He has never seemed to understand why I would be hurt or upset over his porn use and lack of interest in me. It is like he doesn't understand normal behavior. He has always been very obsessive and compulsive. He will get fixated on things to the exclusion of everything else whether it is a computer game, a TV show, or something else.

[DreamFlyer99]

vortex,

Whether or not he has full-fledged BPD or bits of several things, disorders are handfuls of traits, right? So you can definitely learn how to deal with certain traits by learning tools and boundaries to whatever traits you're seeing.

Doesn't sound like he's very invested in his recovery or even his sobriety, if he still thinks it's cool for you to have this other guy for the purpose of getting titillating details... .Isn't addiction about what the user gets out of it?

MissyM, the amount of work your husband and you are doing is probably what it really takes to deal with recovering from both an addiction and BPD. I would think it takes that sort of continuity and accountability for recovery to happen.

Vortex, nothing to do with what your husband chooses or does NOT choose to do is your fault, it's not about you. Only he can make the choices of what to do with his body and mind.

As my therapist has said a lot in the last 6 months, "your goal is to learn how to care for yourself in the best ways possible."

Have you thought about what self-care might look like for you?

[vortex of confusion]

Have you thought about what self-care might look like for you?

I have come a long way in the self care department but I still have a long way to go because there are times when it feels difficult to maintain.

I got a second job outside of the house. I love, love, love my job. My coworkers are awesome. I hadn't worked outside of the house in 7 or 8 years. I worked but it was from home.

I got my own bank account so that I could do things with the kids without consulting him or worrying about it interfering with paying the bills.

I tried to get some clothes that make me feel better. Dressing up for work always seems to boost me up a bit.

I write. I have always done a lot of writing and it is one of the things that has helped me maintain my sanity over the years.

I try to make it a point to get away occasionally. At one point, I don't think I would leave the house for extended periods of times. He did all of the grocery shopping and all of the errands. I insisted on taking over some of the grocery shopping. Now, he does the spot shopping or goes when we have a tight budget and need to stick to a list.

I have gotten better at taking time outs. When I feel myself getting to a point of losing it, I will get a hold of my brother and go hang out with him and his fiancé for an evening. If my brother hears my phone ring or sees me texting, he will tell me, "You had better not be talking to him." LOL.

I think the biggest thing that I have done to take care of myself is to start talking and being more honest with myself about how unhappy I had become. Even if I don't tell anybody else, I allow myself to have certain thoughts. Not too long ago, I would have a negative thought and then I would beat myself up over it.

[vortex of confusion]

Doesn't sound like he's very invested in his recovery or even his sobriety, if he still thinks it's cool for you to have this other guy for the purpose of getting titillating details... .Isn't addiction about what the user gets out of it?

I completely agree with you. I have had that question myself. In all honesty, I don't think he really wants to get better. If he gets better, then he won't have his addiction to fall back on. Any time something doesn't go his way or he is upset, he will blame it on the addiction. He will be grumpy and then tell me that he had a rough day because he really wanted to act out. It is like he has now defined himself as an addict and doesn't want to really improve himself. That is not what he says but that is what I get from his actions. I have tried to suggest that maybe there is more going on that just the addiction.

The bigger question that I have had is, "Is he really an addict or is he just really compulsive?" He can sit and play his computer games for hours. I got home from work this evening and my oldest daughter was upset because he ignored them all evening. She was upset because she was hungry and wanted some help finding food. She was sad and wanted somebody to talk to and hang out with but he was too wrapped up in his game to notice. He is fine with the younger ones because they tend to play together and only ask him to get stuff for them. He doesn't have to connect with them or even think much. My oldest is very put out with her dad because he would rather play games. She loves computer games too and doesn't understand why they can't share that interest together. She has asked me time and time again why dad won't play games with her or connect with her on any kind of level. She loves piano and has a big keyboard in her room. She will compose stuff and record it and then ask one of us to come listen, usually me. Tonight, she played something that she did while I was at work. She wanted to know how it made me feel. Her music is so emotive and it really showed me how alone and sad she was while I was at work this evening.

[waverider]

Its almost as though they exist in a room of nightmares. Other people put a great deal of time and effort into showing them where the exit door is, even painting a path to the door. They see it, feel elated that there is a way out. Everyone is happy that they seem keen to leave. You take them by the hand and guide them, share the burden. You get close to the door, you both feel relief. Then a couple of steps short they veer to one side walk into the wall and fall on their butt. Throw a tantrum that it is all too hard and crawl back to the middle of the room again claiming no one is willing to help them so its all pointless.

Then you repeat the whole saga again.

Self sabotage is a big component of BPD, addictions, impulse and obsessions are characteristics. wanting to be rescued from the room of nightmares is part of neediness. You can't fulfill neediness, hence they sabotage the final result of the rescue attempt in order to maintain the need. To need is to have a reason to live for. Without need they have no purpose or direction. Need is their structure they wont let you take it away.

[vortex of confusion]

Self sabotage is a big component of BPD, addictions, impulse and obsessions are characteristics. wanting to be rescued from the room of nightmares is part of neediness. You can't fulfill neediness, hence they sabotage the final result of the rescue attempt in order to maintain the need. To need is to have a reason to live for. Without need they have no purpose or direction. Need is their structure they wont let you take it away.

Oh wow, that is very true. I hadn't really thought of it like that but that makes a lot of sense and sheds light on his behavior as well as my mother's (plus a few others I know).

I can feel my husband slipping. He is checking out again and he gets these mannerisms that are grumpy and curt. He is passive aggressively trying to get attention. If I give in and question him and shower him with attention, then I get right back on the wheel of saving him from himself. When he gets like this, I start looking for distractions and end up doing things that I will regret. I am trying to break that cycle and hope that I can keep from mentioning his subtle changes and grumpiness.

I have to resist the urge to save him. He loves it when I jump in and come to his rescue. It is so funny because he is very much a damsel in distress that needs to be saved from himself.

[DreamFlyer99]

Need is their structure they wont let you take it away.

Succinct! I hadn't seen it quite that way, but it's so true. Your whole analogy about painting them a path and they sound excited but then make a turn is so perfect. It explains a lot about how I realized that words were just words from my h. That when he'd actually respond nicely to my comment that we should learn some new communication tools and I would believe his positive words I was setting myself up for disappointment. He'd rather be in the place where I was just doing everything for him like a mommy to a small child.

Vortex, how old are your kids again? That is so cool that your oldest has a way to express herself musically! I too found that my uBPDh was not able to Play Well With Others. Sharing is a two way thing, and that's not on the pwBPD's radar.

OH! and Vortex, those ways you're doing self-care are awesome! Very intuitive and wise and self-aware.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, how old are your kids again? That is so cool that your oldest has a way to express herself musically! I too found that my uBPDh was not able to Play Well With Others. Sharing is a two way thing, and that's not on the pwBPD's radar.

OH! and Vortex, those ways you're doing self-care are awesome! Very intuitive and wise and self-aware.

I have 4 girls. The oldest is 13 and the youngest is 5.

It is a real struggle for the kids because they think that dads should want to play with their kids and spend time with them. My oldest has repeatedly said that she wishes she had a strong father figure in her life. She thinks her dad is a bit of a joke and has a bad habit of pushing his buttons to get him to react. Negative attention is better than no attention. When I see her doing it, I shut her down and try to find ways to soothe them both.

I got a lot of those things from my dad and another close friend that went through a divorce. Even if I don't leave, I need to make sure that I have an exit strategy just in case. I haven't told my dad everything but I have told him just enough and one of the best things he told me in regards to some of the stupid stuff that I have done in reaction to my husband is something along the lines of, "Sometimes, you gotta do something stupid to keep yourself humble. It becomes too easy to become self righteous and blame them for everything."

Something else that my dad told me that helped me decide to stay is something along the lines of, "Why leave? If you leave, you run the risk of finding someone else that is just as bad or worse. At least with him, you kind of know what you are getting."

[DreamFlyer99]

Something else that my dad told me that helped me decide to stay is something along the lines of, "Why leave? If you leave, you run the risk of finding someone else that is just as bad or worse. At least with him, you kind of know what you are getting."

How do you actually feel about that statement? Maybe put that into a real situation of yours and see how it works. For me it would look like this: "At least with his belittling of me and calling me names I know what to expect."

A more self-care way to look at it is "how can I learn to deal with his belittling of me and calling me names? I don't want to be run down anymore." Then I'd go to the tools and see how I could change it up rather than merely put up with it.

Question on the soothing--I wish I had known to teach my daughter to soothe herself more than I did, I gave her what I needed as a child (who really didn't get any soothing.) And your husband is an adult, right? Should it be your job to raise him?

(these are things I've gone through with my therapist, to be honest.)

[vortex of confusion]

How do you actually feel about that statement? Maybe put that into a real situation of yours and see how it works. For me it would look like this: "At least with his belittling of me and calling me names I know what to expect."

That isn't what I was thinking at all. I was thinking more along the lines of something that I heard in a COSA meeting that I attended which is that I have to deal with my own junk or these same dynamics will be repeated over and over and over in every relationship that I attempt to have. I know a lot of my husbands triggers and can avoid them. I have a set of coping mechanisms, if you will, that are tried and true and seem to work. I have done so much work in this relationship why start over with someone else that might require even more work. Why start over with someone else that may be even more deceptive and actually be physically violent? Is it cynical? Yes. But, I have no hopes of ever having a healthy relationship if I don't get myself in a better frame of mind. That was more my thinking. I was not thinking that it was okay to accept the belittling or any of that.

Question on the soothing--I wish I had known to teach my daughter to soothe herself more than I did, I gave her what I needed as a child (who really didn't get any soothing.) And your husband is an adult, right? Should it be your job to raise him?

I absolutely shouldn't have to soothe him or raise him. There are times when he should soothe himself. If I am up to my eyeballs caring for the kids, the house, my work, and other stuff, I should not have to stop what I am doing and deal with his crap. But, I will sometimes get caught up in thinking, "I wish somebody would do this for me when I am struggling." Not because I need it. I have learned to pretty much take care of myself most of the time. It's just that every now and then, it would be nice to have somebody throw me a life preserver. So, I guess refusing to soothe him would feel really mean to me. I know that probably isn't the best way to look at but that is the gut reaction that I have. I am his wife. Aren't spouses supposed to look out for each other? Those are the thoughts that I have about that.

[vortex of confusion]

I wanted to add a bit of an update. This afternoon, I asked him when he was going to see his therapist again. He said he didn't know. I told him I thought he should do it soon.

His response was, "I don't know what to talk to her about."

Me: What do you think you need to work on?

Him: I don't know.

In the past, I would have started making suggestions and telling him what I thought he needed to work on. Tonight, I didn't make any suggestions or anything. I left it at that. That told me a couple of things. The reality is that he really doesn't think he has that big of a problem. He thinks going to SAA once a week will be more than enough. He was going to two meetings a week but decided that he didn't like going on Saturday because the meetings are too long. And, there are times when he will perceive me being disappointed or upset that he is gone so much. I don't have a problem with him going to his meetings. What I have a problem with is that everything is about him.

[MissyM]

Vortex, that is why they say that sex addictions a baffling disease.  The amount of denial involved by the addict is astounding.  My dBPDh is doing all of the things I mentioned  and is having a rough time the last week and a half.  He has had contact with his family because his Mom has been diagnosed with breast cancer.  Whenever he has contact with his family, his behavior stinks.  Addiction is such a deeply ingrained thinking that recovery takes a tremendous amount of work.  It is easier just to be  miserable and wallow.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, that is why they say that sex addictions a baffling disease.  The amount of denial involved by the addict is astounding.  My dBPDh is doing all of the things I mentioned  and is having a rough time the last week and a half.  He has had contact with his family because his Mom has been diagnosed with breast cancer.  Whenever he has contact with his family, his behavior stinks.  Addiction is such a deeply ingrained thinking that recovery takes a tremendous amount of work.  It is easier just to be  miserable and wallow.

I have read that. I have read about guys that go into detox centers and spend time there to help them with the addiction. I guess that is one of the things that I have been baffled about over the years. Does he have an addiction or not? There are times when it seems like he can turn it off and on with no rhyme or reason. That is something that I working to accept. For the longest time, I had a bit of a childish attitude and felt like "Why should I have to work on my junk if he won't work on his? I am already the one that is keeping this family together and making sure that clothes are washed, bills are paid, dishes are done, and stuff like that." How much more am I supposed to do? How much more does he want from me? Now, I have gotten to a point where I don't even care about some of these things. All I want to do is live in peace and have some privacy. I couldn't hide anything from my husband if I wanted to because he is always so concerned about what I am or am not doing. I have been in a lot of denial too.

[MissyM]

Vortex, I get that.  There has to be a certain level of denial living with an addict.  I knew pretty quickly that this was sex addiction with my husband because he behaved the same way he did on drugs.  I was in denial by minimizing how bad it was, it took a few months for me to accept that he had actually had sex with hookers.  It is such high risk behavior and he has always been terrified of women.  Apparently, that is common among men that pay for sex (fear of women).  Focusing on me really helps.  I can't change him and I can't stop him from sliding into dark places.  I can have boundaries that I won't be with him if he is going to behave this way.  I am not going to stay with my husband if he doesn't stay in recovery, I just can't do it.  It is really triggering for me when he has behaviors that look like he will slip.

[Bear60]

Something else that my dad told me that helped me decide to stay is something along the lines of, "Why leave? If you leave, you run the risk of finding someone else that is just as bad or worse. At least with him, you kind of know what you are getting."

How do you actually feel about that statement? Maybe put that into a real situation of yours and see how it works. For me it would look like this: "At least with his belittling of me and calling me names I know what to expect."

This is at least my second trip with BPD and remember saying "at least I know what to expect", I am not sure that is a very healthy approach. I also remember when I was on here 12 yrs ago hearing how non's tend to repeat unhealthy relationships. Between first uBPDw and second uBPDw I had some unhealthy relationships but was able to step away from them. I also had some that were not bad just simply could not see us together in future.

I was told by some that I was so closed off to a fully committed relationship because of my past so I tried to make sure I wasn't running away or into one for unhealthy reasons. Now that is one issue that is solely mine and need to work on.

[vortex of confusion]

The amount of denial involved by the addict is astounding. 

That is becoming more and more apparent. When we were first married, I got to a point where I told him I didn't want porn in my house anymore because we were getting ready to have our first kid together. He didn't have it at home at all so I relaxed and thought that everything was okay. He lost his job over it and went to ONE SAA meeting. Before he lost his job over porn, I didn't know that sex addiction existed. I had never heard of such a thing. After that one meeting, he said he was never going back because he didn't think he was an addict because all he did was look at porn. He wasn't as bad as most of the guys there. He had never cheated on me, blah, blah, blah. I have recently found out that he still spent most of his time fantasizing and using me as an object rather than a wife. I always knew something wasn't quite right but I always got excuses as to why things were always a bit off in the bedroom.

It is easier just to be  miserable and wallow.

Yep, it seems that way. I think I subconsciously felt that way for a while because every time I would try to push things, he would push back and things would get crazy and out of whack.

[MissyM]

He lost his job over it and went to ONE SAA meeting. Before he lost his job over porn, I didn't know that sex addiction existed. I had never heard of such a thing. After that one meeting, he said he was never going back because he didn't think he was an addict because all he did was look at porn. He wasn't as bad as most of the guys there.

Just about every SA I have heard of goes into meetings thinking that they aren't nearly as bad as the other SAs.  Every addict thinks that they are terminally unique and no one else understands because they really aren't "that bad."  It takes a lot of meetings and therapy for them to stop and realize that they are just like the other addicts.  It is hard when you mix in BPD because both SA and BPD have a lot of shame.  BPDs have shame about who they are and SAs have shame about the way they behave.  It seems like one shame triggers the other.  Add on top of that a ton of fear and it is just a toxic situation.  I know that my fear gets triggered and I can become irrational, I don't know what shame on top of that would look like for me.  Glad you are going to COSA, I attend that and Alanon.  Both really help me cope with my situation and help me stay focused on recovery.  Even when we slipped out of healthy behavior last night, we were able to move back on track this morning.  This would never happen without 12 step and therapy.

[vortex of confusion]

Glad you are going to COSA, I attend that and Alanon.  Both really help me cope with my situation and help me stay focused on recovery.  Even when we slipped out of healthy behavior last night, we were able to move back on track this morning.  This would never happen without 12 step and therapy.

I've only been to two or three meetings. My work schedule coincides with the meeting time for the meeting that is in my area so I haven't been back in a while. I still read the literature.

[DreamFlyer99]

I was thinking more along the lines of something that I heard in a COSA meeting that I attended which is that I have to deal with my own junk or these same dynamics will be repeated over and over and over in every relationship that I attempt to have. I know a lot of my husbands triggers and can avoid them. I have a set of coping mechanisms, if you will, that are tried and true and seem to work. I have done so much work in this relationship why start over with someone else that might require even more work. Why start over with someone else that may be even more deceptive and actually be physically violent? Is it cynical? Yes. But, I have no hopes of ever having a healthy relationship if I don't get myself in a better frame of mind. That was more my thinking. I was not thinking that it was okay to accept the belittling or any of that.

AH! I see now what you were saying. I think I joined it up with the thought of our normalizing behaviors that are questionable. I've also heard the saying, "wherever you go, there you are" and that carries a similar meaning. We better grow into the best "us" we can be no matter where we are, right?