Talking about abuse after a rage. Yes/No?

[winnie77]

Moselle, that's sounds so very similar to me. My husband however hates when I use analogies... .sometimes it works but most of the time he will tell me it doesn't apply... .ugh, it's frustrating... .... .i am glad it calmed her down... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Moselle]

Moselle, that's sounds so very similar to me. My husband however hates when I use analogies... .sometimes it works but most of the time he will tell me it doesn't apply... .ugh, it's frustrating... .... .i am glad it calmed her down... .

Oh dear, I thought I was being quite innovative   this is the first time I tried using an analogy. It's probably an exercise in futility isn't it? We're trying to use reason and logic to help them understand something that is emotional (the hurt they feel) and very little to do with reason. Best I just enforce my boundaries in the moment and leave the analogies for another day

[winnie77]

Moselle, ... .i hear ya... .but I also believe that as long as they are working toward recovery it is important we don't place limitations on them but rather protect ourselves from expectations so we aren't disappointed. The analogy may have made a difference but we have to be careful to not be too expectant... .if nothing else it sounds like it calmed her down which is good.

[michel71]

Waverider... .

Wow.

That is EXACTLY what it feels like.

I firmly - and without anger - stood up to my BPDw just these past days.

I told her that the rage, fury, aggression, name calling , verbal abuse was not ok... .was a significant drain my me the family... .and really needed to stop.

It was as though she BARELY let me even get the words out. It is like... .whenever I try to even talk about ANYTHING like this that she does... .she cuts me off... gets ANGRY... .will not let me finish... OR ... .if I am seeming to make a point she cannot justify away... .she flees. Leaves the room, leaves the house... .etc... .

Now mind you... .there is NO aggression shown to her nor anger.

BUT she goes from 0-100 in seconds. It is almost that she either realizes that this offense and aggression works to stop the discussion - OR - she is THAT unwilling to look at her self ... .or both.

She TRULY turns it all around on me. SHE winds up being ANGRY at ME.

She was completely out of sorts the past few days. Calling me at the office - yelling. The house was upside down with her emotions, anger, irrationality.

Now mind you... it was about a series of things I had nothing to do with. BUT... .the crazy thing is that she found preposterous ways to WEAVE me into to them. AND actually weave in others who had NOTHING to do with any of it as well.

Eerie to even watch.

I asked her about a dozen times to please calm down. That this tone/anger/rage was not even NECESSARY. It did nothing to stop it.

SO ... .days later... when I am desirous of things JUST getting back to at least where they were PRIOR to all this... .I begin to try and meet in the middle.

I really believe that people should STRIVE to NOT lose their temper etc... .(life is too short)

So when I try to begin to tell her I love her... .try to be upbeat and kind... .

I am met with a person who now tells me that "these past few days ... .you have really upset me"... "and now we have taken 20 steps backward"... .

What? Again - so now I TRIED to voice my desire to have her at least LOOK at this behavior of hers...

AND I am not punished for that.

IN FACT... .I had made it clear over and over again that it was NOT the issue or the topic.It was ehr BEHAVIOR. She KEPT goign back to the issue of the moment... .(which was insignificant) I suppose to try and "justify"the behavior?

So - this time when she took a stance that she is pissed and will be for days... .I had it a bit.

Again - very calmly  on the phone - I told her that she is turning this completely around. That I voiced a real problem for me. Her behavior.

She said that "When you bring this stuff up... .you do real damage"... .

I said "so that tells me that you are telling me to just accept this treatment... and your aggression etc?"

She actually said that "I "made her" be that way when I tried to discuss"... ."that I "escalated"things when I try to calm her down or "discuss" things"

I could not believe what I was hearing.

I said "oh come on... NOONE or NOTHING ... .just MAKES a person that way . You cannot go into a RAGE... .get AGGRESSIVE... .VISCOUS ... .and then say it is all ok... .because the other person MAE me mad"... .

She then - as always - just HUNG UP THE PHONE... .

WHAT - OR WHY does she deal with this - this way?

Night. I was reading you post and by any chance are you married to my wife as well? LOL.

I have been pondering the idea of confronting her when she goes off again. Employing the techniques I have learned thus far but not letting her get away with her abuse. I fear that my convo will end up like yours. My tactic lately and since feeling so listless and beaten down is just to take it. Sometimes I walk out of the room with her in mid-sentence. Then she accuses me of not caring about her.

I am finding so many road blocks lately. Trying this and trying that. Nothing is better. I just want to scale those road blocks and run the hell away.

[Moselle]

Winnie77, thanks for the support,

Michel71 That is such a desperate place to be, and flight might be a good choice for a while until you have your strength back. I ran to another city 7 months ago while I figured BPD out, and I still have much to learn, but I've got a rudimentary handle on it now.

Please don't stand there and take it, it'll take you into the black hole with the BPD, and trust me, we are not prepared for survival there. They have lived it for their whole lives and have learned to manage it in their way. I've been on the edge of that twice, and left for 4 months the first time and now 7 months the second time. Your staying there will serve neither you nor her.

I've had a radical acceptance event  about 5weeks ago now, which actually allowed me a lot of freedom to really be bold with my uBPDw. Somehow when I accepted she won't change, I stopped trying to fix/change her, and went into boundary mode. I stopped worrying about what she would do, and I started being very assertive about what I would and wouldn't tolerate. When I really accepted this is a person with a serious mental disorder, I stopped taking her accusations so personally. Ironically she sensed the shift and went from rampaging, to nice and sweet. I recognise it for what it is, another idealisation cycle, but it's a break from the raging, which I know will cycle back BTW.

Can I suggest a book, which has changed the game for me quite significantly "Stop caretaking the BPD/Narcissist. How to stop the drama". It's on the BPDfam reading list

[winnie77]

Moselle, I have that problem sometimes. I forget that he has an illness... .he seems so together at times and after awhile, when things are good, I forget. It's so odd because they can be so loving and mine is such a natural caretaker... .it's just easy to forget... .until a blow up, and even then sometimes I forget... .hoping being a part of this group will help me to remember all the time... .

[nightmoves]

Michel71... .

NO - I am not married to your wife... .LOL.

That would then necessitate apparently me dealing with TWO people hammering me and creating a world of chaos (SQUARED!)

I DO hear the crazy push - pull of disengaging simply to avoid being shot at... .only to then "not care"... .

What the heck!

I have come to the theory that they NEED a target... .their brains... .and their emotions... .NEED to leak out of their head... .AT US!

It has become a thing I do to whenever possible AVOID being pulled into that web... .AND ... .it is interesting and curious to see her then STRUGGLE with that.

ACTUALLY NEEDING to DEAL with whatever is swirling emotionally in her head.

Hey... .maybe this is a home remedy rote attempt at starting to be less codependent?

[Moselle]

Moselle, I have that problem sometimes. I forget that he has an illness... .he seems so together at times and after awhile, when things are good, I forget. It's so odd because they can be so loving and mine is such a natural caretaker... .it's just easy to forget... .until a blow up, and even then sometimes I forget... .hoping being a part of this group will help me to remember all the time... .

I've named it Green light and Red light behaviour for some years now. I just didn't know what was causing it, until 7 months ago. Its the Idealising and Hating cycles, playing out.

I've spoken about Orange light behaviour being a sustainable working relationship, where we should be for 90% of the time.

If she was Green or Orange for 90% of the time I'd be over the moon. Unfortunately she's Red for 60-70% of the time. Or was before I left. I don't know what she is now. The separation has been deep Crimson/Black for 6 months :-), and Green for 1 month

Winnie77, lets keep reminding eachother LOL

[LilHurt420]

Has anyone in here experienced BPDs getting mad at financial limitations or ignoring limitations when they want something?

yep... .my uBPDh has no concept of financial limitations.  he has blown through thousands upon thousands of dollars and not thought anything of it.  he thinks because we've never been homeless that that is all that matters.

He also takes "my money" in my personal account when he's mad.  Just to do it... .when he's mad at me he'll do absolutely anything to "get back at me"

[michel71]

Winnie77, thanks for the support,

Michel71 That is such a desperate place to be, and flight might be a good choice for a while until you have your strength back. I ran to another city 7 months ago while I figured BPD out, and I still have much to learn, but I've got a rudimentary handle on it now.

Thinking about it! Not impossible to do. I just don't want it looked at as abandonment. I have to discuss this with my immigration attorney.

Please don't stand there and take it, it'll take you into the black hole with the BPD, and trust me, we are not prepared for survival there. They have lived it for their whole lives and have learned to manage it in their way. I've been on the edge of that twice, and left for 4 months the first time and now 7 months the second time. Your staying there will serve neither you nor her.

I feel strangled by her emotions. Both insulted and devastated by her detachment. How dare her.

I've had a radical acceptance event  about 5weeks ago now, which actually allowed me a lot of freedom to really be bold with my uBPDw. Somehow when I accepted she won't change, I stopped trying to fix/change her, and went into boundary mode. I stopped worrying about what she would do, and I started being very assertive about what I would and wouldn't tolerate. When I really accepted this is a person with a serious mental disorder, I stopped taking her accusations so personally. Ironically she sensed the shift and went from rampaging, to nice and sweet. I recognise it for what it is, another idealisation cycle, but it's a break from the raging, which I know will cycle back BTW.

Can I suggest a book, which has changed the game for me quite significantly "Stop caretaking the BPD/Narcissist. How to stop the drama". It's on the BPDfam reading list

[nightmoves]

Thank you Michel

[winnie77]

Moselle... .you got it! Lol

Lilhurt... .i know how you feel.  Mine has gotten better but I still think there are moments. He almost destroyed our marriage from lying about finances. He realized that his hiding from me turned him against me... .miracle I know!, but he did, on his own, so now, he tries to be honest and transparent. ... every now and then he'll do something and I'll be on to it and remind him and he gets back on track after a short period... .I'm praying he continues improving... .

[qkslvrgirl]

Can someone please tell me why BPD's say, "I was joking, you're too sensitive"?

Mine has said something to that effect for years - after saying or doing something that was truly "not funny".

I understand it shifts blame from them; but it invariably comes after something that no one would ever consider even remotely "a joke".

The disconnect is so drastic - and I'm not sure what the appropriate boundary is, other than silence. I can't make sense out of non-sense!

 

[waverider]

Can someone please tell me why BPD's say, "I was joking, you're too sensitive"?

Mine has said something to that effect for years - after saying or doing something that was truly "not funny".

I understand it shifts blame from them; but it invariably comes after something that no one would ever consider even remotely "a joke".

Lack of empathy means they dont realize just how hurtful this attempt at avoiding responsibility is. So the project the responsibility for you being upset back on you thinking it is a plausible excuse

.

I can't make sense out of non-sense!

 

Cant make a silk purse out of a pigs ear, so quit trying. Its a pigs ear, it's easier to just recognize it for what it is and leave it at that

[Moselle]

Moselle... .you got it! Lol

Lilhurt... .i know how you feel.  Mine has gotten better but I still think there are moments. He almost destroyed our marriage from lying about finances. He realized that his hiding from me turned him against me... .miracle I know!, but he did, on his own, so now, he tries to be honest and transparent. ... every now and then he'll do something and I'll be on to it and remind him and he gets back on track after a short period... .I'm praying he continues improving... .

Is there a manual for managing finances BPD style?

I saw under the healthy relationship section that both parties should be party to financial decisions. What if I'm tired explaining to my 3 year old wife that spending less than we earn = financial freedom.

I would rather lose a tooth than have a financial discussion with her. I know I'm being a bit of a victim with this, but what's wrong with yearning for a spouse that doesn't max everything out every month?

[winnie77]

Moselle... .not sure if there's a manual or not but mine realized on his own, I believe it was God seriously, that he almost completely destroyed his life over finances and lying and spending... .he got tired of it. We still have issues... .he has trouble understanding that little stuff adds up and if there's extra money he figures out what we need to spend it on before we have it but I talk to him about the choices involved and the consequences of those choices a lot. I've told him I'd rather live broke and not be broke than to live broke because we really are... .... .he tries now... .which is huge... .

[Moselle]

Moselle... .not sure if there's a manual or not but mine realized on his own, I believe it was God seriously, that he almost completely destroyed his life over finances and lying and spending... .he got tired of it. We still have issues... .he has trouble understanding that little stuff adds up and if there's extra money he figures out what we need to spend it on before we have it but I talk to him about the choices involved and the consequences of those choices a lot. I've told him I'd rather live broke and not be broke than to live broke because we really are... .... .he tries now... .which is huge... .

That sounds very assertive and I'm impressed! I've never really been very assertive towards her financially. It's one of my goals now. Thanks for the inspiration. I'll try something different. I'll teach my girls about money management once per week, and make sure my wife is present. I can be constructive with the kids, and she won't feel condescended to

[winnie77]

Moselle, thanks! We are all just trying what we can to get by here... .. The conversations have not always gone well but I'm a firm believer in the Albert Ellis premise of rational emotive behavior therapy, that is it takes like a huge number of positives to get rid of one negative, so given that, I try to remain calm and positive and state true and healthy thoughts believing that enough of them will be a positive influence. I don't know if it works but positive and healthy thinking can't hurt! : )

[Moselle]

It takes like a huge number of positives to get rid of one negative, so given that, I try to remain calm and positive and state true and healthy thoughts believing that enough of them will be a positive influence. I don't know if it works but positive and healthy thinking can't hurt! : )

I like this. When I married my wife, I  was  positive, full of fun, complimentary, kind, thoughtful, co-operative. I recognise that these things disappeared over time. Certainly within the relationship. I feel that it needs a level of reciprocation to sustain these kinds of things. It is an exchange of energy, which grows.

When I married my wife she displayed these things too. I'm angry that it was the idealisation phase of this disease and lying below it,  was a cesspool of dysfunctional thought and behaviour. I'm not sure where to put that anger or even if I can sustain a relationship where there is none of the above.

I feel cheated of a love relationship, and that I've accepted less for so long. I feel that I am worth more. I'm not sure why I accepted less for so long, but I won't accept less any more. My wife has been on the idealisattion drive for the last month and and I see it for what it is, after showing the real dragon (her words not mine) for 6 months.

I've made some changes in terms of emotional independence, how I approach relationships, and I genuinely wake up excited for life again. I'm seriously questioning why I would go back to this. Any advice?

[winnie77]

Wow... .I'm right there with you but I am keeping the faith. I never think all is lost. Emotional problems are just that, problems, and the way I see it is there is a solution to every problem. I feel the same way as far as needing love and validation and positivity back and am thankful that my husband is doing better than he did for years... .i call on my higher power, which to me is Jesus, for words to say and patience to speak in the right tone... .THAT'S probably the best advice I can give. Sometimes positive is simply persistence with love and patience... .i never give up believing in the process. ... i do not want my husband to go his whole life not knowing what it's like to be at peace within himself and like himself, his life and know what it feels like to fully accept love. So, that keeps me demonstrating happiness. ... i workout, wake up in a good attitude, take care of things in the house, talk to my friends and God... .and hope it's contagious! Ha...

[Moselle]

Wow... .I'm right there with you but I am keeping the faith. I never think all is lost. Emotional problems are just that, problems, and the way I see it is there is a solution to every problem. I feel the same way as far as needing love and validation and positivity back and am thankful that my husband is doing better than he did for years... .i call on my higher power, which to me is Jesus, for words to say and patience to speak in the right tone... .THAT'S probably the best advice I can give. Sometimes positive is simply persistence with love and patience... .i never give up believing in the process. ... i do not want my husband to go his whole life not knowing what it's like to be at peace within himself and like himself, his life and know what it feels like to fully accept love. So, that keeps me demonstrating happiness. ... i workout, wake up in a good attitude, take care of things in the house, talk to my friends and God... .and hope it's contagious! Ha...

Winnie77, this is such an assertive way to see things. I'm still getting my mojo back, but I hope I can be the same way, in this relationship or the next

[winnie77]

Moselle, never thought of it as assertive but I guess it is. I just kind of see life like that... .gotta be proactive or ya won't get anywhere... .. I hope it works out well for you and all of us really. It's difficult...

[Vatz]

In the case of insults, put-downs and controlling language, I learned to simply state, "You cannot speak to me in that way" - followed by leaving / removing myself from the situation.

I used to do that and got called a coward for walking away. I was frequently accused of not having the guts to talk things through. Even though I talked, justified and explained plenty. Eventually she just hated that as time went on, I sorta became more difficult to manipulate. It still happened and I still took the bait at times. At the end, I didn't have any patience left. I was finished solving her crises and dealing with problems that were entirely hers. I bailed her out physically, emotionally and financially numerous times and I was done with having to deal with a mountain of *gasp* even more demands lest I be unworthy in her eyes. But that's me, and this is the staying board so take this with a grain of salt.

But seeing as how you're working on staying. The above quote is actually really good advice. If they're being mean, Walk Away. Enforce your boundaries. You don't have to take the unreasonable sort of nonsense they might toss at you. I don't necessarily mean leave them, I do mean you don't actually have to talk to them if they're being unreasonable.

Another mistake I used to make was I'd try to set boundaries, but would somehow have to justify them all the time. You don't have to. In the case of rude, aggressive and abusive behavior you don't have to justify, you don't owe them anything. But you can take care of yourself, and your mental/physical well-being so that you are better able to open up a dialogue with them and hopefully move forward together. Hope this helps.

[Moselle]

Vatz, I've one foot on the staying board, and one foot on the leaving one, so your comment is valued.

Either way, I want to handle her in a respectful, kind and generous way. She is the mother of my three children, so the staying principles apply.

I guess the SET and other tools are valuable in all my relationships, including with my children, and I'm definitely staying in those LOL

[amaris]

I have learned to let it go every time... .If I try to bring it up to reason it out, he rages again and it goes on for weeks.  There is never a time of taking responsibility for his actions... .never a time of reason and loving assurances.   I have taught myself to detach and let it go every time... .however, it has also caused me to withdraw from him to the point that I am not sure where love plays in this relationship.   I have boundaries and I validate him every chance I get... .but when the chips are down for him and he isn't getting his way he will find ways to make it my fault and there is never any support for my feelings or pain... unless he is in the 'worship me' phase... .and then he sings my praises to the multitudes... .when this happens I have learned to back even further away because I know it is only a matter of time before everything that happens in his world is my fault.  I am praying for relief and a place to rejuvenate myself... .