BPDw tried to break door down , any urgent feedback appreciated

[bpbreakout]

BPDw had a major major meltdown last night which completely took me by surprise.

She is having an ongoing fight with her brother & SIL. She wanted to go through the whole thing at bedtime last night, her trigger was that she felt I was not being supportive enough as I suggested there were 2 points of view which really annoyed her. Considering how time we spend on her FOO issues and I got angry about the way she always takes out FOO issues on me, that got us into a fight and she then started getting physical pushing me, I stood my ground (without pushing back BTW) for a few seconds and then stormed off to the bedroom and locked the door behind me.

She started trying to bash the bedroom door down which woke up D15,S13 who tried to pull her away from the door. I could hear there was a lot of pushing and shoving the other side of the door and eventually the lock broke and she came in so I got out of the bedroom. By this time my poor son was hyperventilating and d15 was seriously angry with BPDw. I put son in his bedroom and had to stand in her way to stop her getting in his bedroom for a while until she calmed down. I ended up putting both kids to bed with d15 in tears and s13 still hyperventilating for a quite a while.

To her credit she has apologised for her behaviour and she is obviously quite upset with herself. However she is blaming me for locking the door and the children as well for “attacking” her. We have had this issue a few times and there are several doors in our house that don’t close properly. Her reasoning is that closing doors on her “freaks” her out and so I must take joint responsibility these situations.

I have sort of gone along with this in the past (in other words tried to be understanding of the way she gets “freaked” out). Today I spoke to the local domestic violence unit and it is possible for me to make a report and the police will come round to the house and talk to her, I doubt it would go any further though. To be honest I don’t feel physically intimidated by her behaviour but I really hate the implied emotional threat that says I can’t lock the door on her in my own house to get away from her in an argument. If I hadn’t done that and she had continued following me round the house trying to provoke me it could well have got worse.

Any thoughts are welcome. I have never got physical with her but came very close once a few years ago. Part of me is thinking I should have left the house altogether and part of me is thinking I have a right to go behind a locked door in my own house if she is pushing me too far & violating my physical space, in fact I think it's almost sacrosanct and that everyone in our family needs to respect that. I also need to talk to the kids, I know they are fairly young but I don’t want them to be involved this stuff, I would rather they just let Mum bash the door down so she only has herself to blame for her stupid stupid behaviour.

So far all I have said on the issue is that I will continue going behind loccked doors if I feel she is pushing me too far and if it's up to her how she deals with that.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

BPDw had a major major meltdown last night which completely took me by surprise.

She is having an ongoing fight with her brother & SIL. She wanted to go through the whole thing at bedtime last night, her trigger was that she felt I was not being supportive enough as I suggested there were 2 points of view which really annoyed her. Considering how time we spend on her FOO issues and I got angry about the way she always takes out FOO issues on me, that got us into a fight and she then started getting physical pushing me, I stood my ground (without pushing back BTW) for a few seconds and then stormed off to the bedroom and locked the door behind me.

She started trying to bash the bedroom door down which woke up D15,S13 who tried to pull her away from the door. I could hear there was a lot of pushing and shoving the other side of the door and eventually the lock broke and she came in so I got out of the bedroom. By this time my poor son was hyperventilating and d15 was seriously angry with BPDw. I put son in his bedroom and had to stand in her way to stop her getting in his bedroom for a while until she calmed down. I ended up putting both kids to bed with d15 in tears and s13 still hyperventilating for a quite a while.

To her credit she has apologised for her behaviour and she is obviously quite upset with herself. However she is blaming me for locking the door and the children as well for “attacking” her. We have had this issue a few times and there are several doors in our house that don’t close properly. Her reasoning is that closing doors on her “freaks” her out and so I must take joint responsibility these situations.

I have sort of gone along with this in the past (in other words tried to be understanding of the way she gets “freaked” out). Today I spoke to the local domestic violence unit and it is possible for me to make a report and the police will come round to the house and talk to her, I doubt it would go any further though. To be honest I don’t feel physically intimidated by her behaviour but I really hate the implied emotional threat that says I can’t lock the door on her in my own house to get away from her in an argument. If I hadn’t done that and she had continued following me round the house trying to provoke me it could well have got worse.

Any thoughts are welcome. I have never got physical with her but came very close once a few years ago. Part of me is thinking I should have left the house altogether and part of me is thinking I have a right to go behind a locked door in my own house if she is pushing me too far & violating my physical space, in fact I think it's almost sacrosanct and that everyone in our family needs to respect that. I also need to talk to the kids, I know they are fairly young but I don’t want them to be involved this stuff, I would rather they just let Mum bash the door down so she only has herself to blame for her stupid stupid behaviour.

So far all I have said on the issue is that I will continue going behind loccked doors if I feel she is pushing me too far and if it's up to her how she deals with that.

You are in a tough spot.

If she is apologizing for behavior... .is she willing to go to counseling/therapy and own her side of it... .and work on it.  I'm thinking that this is a point where you need to focus on healthy family.

Some of this is coming from my personal experience... that came out of similar stories to yours.  High conflict situations inside the house with kids watching/involved.

Getting everyone (me included) into family counseling was key.  Everyone gets evaluated, diagnosed and whatever else the professionals decide needs to happen.

My family is not "fixed"... .but we are on the right track. 

Do you think something like this is workable for your family

[JohnLove]

I believe you need to be very cautious involving children in this. This is not THEIR fault. I can assure you they want no part of it. More harm than good can come from over involving children in any capacity. I heard your opinion bpbreakout. Use your judgement.

I would also advise caution when following medical professionals blindly. I would use them for assistance, guidance, for what they're worth. If you agree entirely with everything they recommend, or have run out of ideas yourself, then you might have nothing to lose.

bpbreakout, this is not a good situation, hopefully some good will come from her behaviour escalating, as in a catalyst for change, I am glad you have spoken to authorities, if a neighbour makes a call for whatever reason and your wife make BPD style statements to the authorities you can find yourself in a lot of trouble even to the point of being forcefully removed from your own home if you don't comply.

I will give this further thought and post later... .

[bpbreakout]

Thanks for the feedback guys, it's helping me get there.

We have an MC which could work. She is in a sense owning she has a problem but she wants other people to take responsibility for managing it.  But FT maybe a stretch for her, giving the children a voice is something she would find extremely threatening as they are not happy with her anyway. A lot of things they said in the heat of the moment last night suggested there is a lot of pent up anger at the way she has behaved over the years. In a sense it's better for them to learn to let BPDw go if she goes off her head again but maybe FT isn't quite the way to achieve that. They both panicked last night (understandably) but unfortunately it did make things worse (totally agree not their fault). Theye are teens so maybe some therapy would help them feel under more control and less panicky if this arises in the future. As for me I just wanted to get away from her into another room and just block her out of my head as she was really pressing some buttons (ie just as panicky as the kids in my own way & definately not thinking clearly myself). Of course this meant I wasn't in a position to do anything to help calm the kids down which of course is what she thinks I should have done, in fact she says we are "equally" responsible and I have failed them as a father.

As for what do next, there is a boundary issue for me, should I  - 1. stand up for my right to go into another room and lock the door in my own house or 2. just walk out of the house in future ? Option 2 seems like it's condoning or enabling the bashing down of doors which is not a message I want to send to the kids, having said that I've been on these boards enough to know a lot of people would go for walking out of the house. I'm thinking I might wait a couple of days when I am feeling calmer & more capable of touch love and tell her I have spoken to the police and if she does do anything like this again I will put in a formal complaint.

[waverider]

If you, and the kids were all to lock yourselves in your rooms do you think she would then escalate it to trashing the house and/or self harming?

It is hard to ask kids to stay out it as they are frightened and want to either help or be with you, not have you locked away whilst they are not.

Dont tell her you have spoken to the police and will put in a complaint unless you have, and you will. Make no idle threats.

TBH the ideal is for you to take the kids and leave the house.

I have toughed it out like you before and in the long run the kids were overexposed to it, and I regret it.

[formflier]

 

As you read this... .make sure you understand that this is a bit personal from my situation... .and it's not "over"... .probably never will be "over"... .but something we always work on.  In other words make sure you blend things from this post with other wisdom on this site.

I'm convinced that in my situation that getting my wife into individual therapy was a big step in getting us "unstuck".  Don't take that to mean that it was her fault.  Do take it to mean that you guys are a family unit... .everyone has r/s with everyone else.  So... .it is unreasonable to think that any one person can "fix" the family.  Or... .if everyone but one person is working hard to make things better... .things will get better... .but there is a limit to getting better because someone has decided to not be part of the process.

So... .once wife and I were in individual counseling, doing marriage counseling... .and the family was involved in family therapy  some dramatic changes took place.  We also had the interesting situation where the family therapist was the individual counselor.  We had a separate MC.

We had done marriage counseling for a long time with many different providers and pastors.  I can't say there was no effect... .but nothing dramatic.  I had been addressing my issues for a long time (PTSD)... .  We had multiple recommendations from multiple providers to get full physical and mental checkups so that the MC or other therapist could have a more clear picture of what they were dealing with.  I would always comply... .and various reasons would come up about why my wife couldn't or wouldn't go see the mental health component.

There was a lot of fear on her part.

So... .getting all of those people involved and my heavy involvement on this board has been a very busy time for many months now.  But dramatic changes have happened in my family that give me hope for the future.  To be clear... .many of those changes have come from me.

To also be clear... .a big turning point was when my wife was obvious about doing things for me that she didn't have to... .and honestly didn't want to do.  That inspired me... .touched me... .and gave me hope... .which allowed me to do things for her... .she would do more for me... .  We were unstuck... .

Now... .to translate this to your situation.  I think you understand the "gold standard" of getting the entire family looked at.  Don't shy away from that.  Also don't shy away from acknowledging progress just because you didn't get the gold standard.

Everyone can "take a step" in the right direction.  You may be able to take a huge step... .the step your wife may be able to take may be barely perceptible.  Encourage her to take it... .and honor the fact that she did... .if she did... .instead of focusing on what she didn't do.

Hope this helps.

[MaybeSo]

You are getting good advice on this thread.

You need to put a very clear safety plan in place for when you need to leave the house and how that will go down.  Period.  It may be that you leave and you make sure another adult is called and shows up to be with your wife/kids.  This is imperative. By the way, you should have access to a phone at all times, so the police or another safe adult could be called at any time.

Try to be less focused on the right to lock a door when things have gone south…and turn your attention on a safety plan to get out of there so everything de escalates asap. I like your ideas about your home being sacrosanct, it sounds good and reasonable, but, the reality is you have a person with trauma responses in your home…and trauma isn’t reasonable. That kind of logic used against trauma responses will get you into a lot of trouble.

The kids absolutely need to be protected from these kinds of scenes.  Your goal is to prevent and help deescalate these kinds of situations for the sake of your children and the whole family. Sometimes we can’t, but that is the goal.

A wife married to a vet who has PTSD sometimes has to leave the house, too.  It’s no different.  

There is a lot of information on this board about how to communicate in ways that lessens the likelihood of these kinds of escalations. Sometimes nothing works, but there are skills that help.  Nighttime is a common time for people to get upset and escalate, it is very common.

Get a safety plan in place immediately.  Hopefully there won’t be a next time, but if there is, you know exactly what to do and it will likely mean leaving and getting someone to come to the house. I think leaving w/out dragging the kids out of the house in the middle of the night is the best bet if you can get a grown up to come over and check on everyone…you have to have a phone on you at all times…and a plan to call someone.  Your kids are older, and the issues was with you, not them... you may even be able to leave for an hour or so and then just come back when things calm down. (you know your wife, I don’t, if you think she is dangerous to the kids in any way…then of course you wouldn’t leave them there).  Some distance can be a life saver.  The rest of the advice on this thread is excellent, too.

[ydrys017]

bpbreakout,

I'm sorry for your experience, and understand the stress of being in that situation.  My uBPDw melted down several months ago and began physically beating on me, I did not retaliate - just tried to cover up.  I saw the master bathroom door open, and ran in - locking the door behind me while she was trying to get in.  It was 2AM.  She calmed enough for me to get out, but as I went downstairs she followed and went right back to the verbal abuse.  Eventually, she went back to bed.  I followed up individually with each of our 3 children to see if they were aware of anything, they were/are not.

What I learned that night is that no matter what - I am unable to JADE (justify, argue, defend explain) anything to her.  I saw the momentary rage flashes several times but thought the 2 hour conversation leading up to the confrontation was under control.  I was wrong.  Now, with the help of this board, books and tools I no longer engage in such conversations.  The other morning I saw the rage flash 2-3 times, and I physically got out of the room, before the kids were woken up.  I felt like a failure in that moment, but an hour later I felt like I did the best thing.

My rookie advice is not to try going toe-to-toe, be aware of the warning signs of escalation, and always have an exit strategy.

[formflier]

  Now, with the help of this board, books and tools I no longer engage in such conversations. 

Solid choice!   

[walksoftly]

Hi,

wow, I have experienced this with my BPD ex only she would hit me in front of my nine year old daughter while I was driving the car.

On one occasion I locked myself in the bathroom only for her to take a hammer and smash the hinges off. By the time she managed to open the door she had calmed down.

My advice to you:

1) Document as you may need it for future family court litigation and custody disputes.

2) Sit down with her and have her agree to go to therapy with you.

3) Ask yourself why you are with her- its not love if shes behaving like this. You may love her but someone doesnt act like this if they love you.You may need to stop caretaking.

When I stopped caretaking for my BPD ex she started an affair and left me for him. She found a new source of supply (NPD)

[waverider]

With practice and awareness it becomes increasingly possible to spot the warning signs to defuse/remove yourself before it gets to the stand off situation. Thinking you can handle it leads you down the road to no return.

The earlier you go occupy yourself elsewhere the less obvious and triggering it is.

[maxsterling]

Wow.  I'm so very sorry that you had to deal with this.  I would have been scared out of my wits.  I can only offer my advice, as what you ultimately do is up to you. I would check out the links on this site about domestic abuse towards men and about legal options.  For me, this kind of physical abuse is a clear boundary crosser and a serious deal breaker.  If it's gone this far, it says to me there is a real chance of it escalating.  As suggested, I would document everything with photos, and maybe have you and your children write statements as to what happened.  This just in case she gets mad again and tries to come back at you legally and label you as the aggressor. You don't want to go to jail. 

Physical abuse of trying to break down the door says to me time to get me and my children out to safety ASAP.  Stay for a week at a friend or family members house while you sort through this.  I generally don't agree with ultimatums, but this is one of those cases where I would be stern and say "leave and go get help, or I will file for divorce."

[bpbreakout]

Thank you all for your comments, really apprciated by me and aplogies for not being able to respond individually.

Things are much calmer now at home.

I'm going to visit a therapist who knows the background this week to discuss the options, it is complex and made more difficult by the fact I have to go away for work for a few days next week so I'm not going to bring things to a head before I go. It's in everyone's interests if I'm as supportive as I can be in the meantime.

Now the kids are older I'm pretty comfortable being away for a few days and I can ask a couple of her close friends to provide any support required while I am away.

I will organise a session with MC for when I get back & I guess go from there. My thinking is that if I lodge a formal report with the police now, I'm effectively ending the marriage & I'm not yet at that point & I agree there is no point making threats it's just a matter of doing it when and if it feels like the right thing to do for me which I think is what boundaries are about. However we can discuss this at MC and whatever happens in the future we will have at least had this discussion with a 3rd party. I can say that I'm seriously concerned/scared, I have discussed the issue with the police and that I have not made a formal report so things have not gone any further and that I do not know what I will do if it happens again. The reason I am with her is partly love and partly the children, I totally agree its not the way people who love you treat you. This issue won't be brought to a head quite yet but it may well result in the end of our marriage. If we separate now, it should be a roughly 50/50 arrangement re kids & I think it could be good for d15 as we have a good relationship. However s13 may get used as a sort of proxy husband by BPDw a lot of the time which obviously wouldn't be good for him. d15 doesn't not put up with a lot of crap from BPDw but S13 I think is scared of the FOG & needs some help with seprating from his mother in a healthy way.

[formflier]

Thank you all for your comments, really apprciated by me and aplogies for not being able to respond individually.

Things are much calmer now at home.

I'm going to visit a therapist who knows the background this week to discuss the options, it is complex and made more difficult by the fact I have to go away for work for a few days next week so I'm not going to bring things to a head before I go. It's in everyone's interests if I'm as supportive as I can be in the meantime.

Now the kids are older I'm pretty comfortable being away for a few days and I can ask a couple of her close friends to provide any support required while I am away.

I will organise a session with MC for when I get back & I guess go from there. My thinking is that if I lodge a formal report with the police now, I'm effectively ending the marriage & I'm not yet at that point & I agree there is no point making threats it's just a matter of doing it when and if it feels like the right thing to do for me which I think is what boundaries are about. However we can discuss this at MC and whatever happens in the future we will have at least had this discussion with a 3rd party. I can say that I'm seriously concerned/scared, I have discussed the issue with the police and that I have not made a formal report so things have not gone any further and that I do not know what I will do if it happens again. The reason I am with her is partly love and partly the children, I totally agree its not the way people who love you treat you. This issue won't be brought to a head quite yet but it may well result in the end of our marriage. If we separate now, it should be a roughly 50/50 arrangement re kids & I think it could be good for d15 as we have a good relationship. However s13 may get used as a sort of proxy husband by BPDw a lot of the time which obviously wouldn't be good for him. d15 doesn't not put up with a lot of crap from BPDw but S13 I think is scared of the FOG & needs some help with seprating from his mother in a healthy way.

There are other options that going to the police.  All should be considered carefully.

If you want to go back and look at my story from months ago... .I filed a report with DSS  Department of Social Services.  They can check on child welfare and can suggest action in many cases... .and in other cases they can compel it to happen.  It may be called something different where you are at... .but the agency that checks on child welfare.

The person that made the complaint is not revealed to the rest of the family... .although many can guess.

And yes... .you are right the marriage may end.  Because of kids there will always be some sort of r/s and if the family gets the care it needs (all members)... .then it is possible to stick together. 

In my case we are still working on putting things back together... .but all agree we are not going back to the way it was.

Lots of things to consider.

[waverider]

Dont stick together for the sake of the kids as that could make it worse for them. It is insufficient reason on its own to turn things around.

The longer it stays in the undecided category the worse it is for them

[bpbreakout]

Good point Waverider, you prompted me to write this list down


Reasons to leave•   Relationship issues, lack of intimacy, FOO issues with BPDw significantly affect our relationship , BPDw can be nice to be around but also often extremely controlling, rude and sometimes  abusive/violent (3 times this year so far & a real deal breaker for me), BPDw shows limited interest in me

•   D15 school leaving exams in 2 yrs, go now to give her a chance to settle into new routine, goodtime to leave ? Would d15 want to live with me for final school year ?

•   S13 now at high school has settled well, good time to leave ?

•   I have good job, may not be case in 5 years (early 50’s)

•   Good example to kids not to put up with BPD behaviour

•   Less stress & conflict means I can be a better father

•   New beginnings could be exciting time of life for me (early 50’s), I can be me, meet someone new ?

Reasons to stay•   1 year since BPD diagnosis for BPDw and BPDw now in therapy, can things improve, how much ?

•   BPDw has initiated MC, can things improve ?

•   BPDw doing a lot in her own life to improve self esteem

•   Stability for children for next few years (offset by BPD behaviour but stabalised by me to large degree)

•   If we separate BPDw could expect 50% custody, could worse than now in some ways especially with S13 who is BPDw’s “favourite”, BPD sepration could be very stressful and destructive, children could be FOGed

•   I am much better at dealing with BPD behaviour than 1 year ago and also seeing how I have contributed to relationship issues, grow inside marriage could also be good example to kids and maybe rewarding

•   I can maintain a number of outside relationships which could fall by wayside if we separate

•   Financially better off

[walksoftly]

I would start to rethink why you remain in this situation.

Is it easier to stay in a dysfunctional relationship than to start over again? Do you think you can fix her? Do you feel sympathy for her? If she is in fact disordered then you can count on the fact that she may not get better?

My ex finally sapped the life out of me after ten years- I refused to placate- so, she had an affair and ended it with painful trips to family court.

I would suggest you take a good look at your definition of love.

Cheers my friend.

[formflier]

 

bpbreakout,

Powerful list.  Can you think through items on the list that are more or less important than other things on this list.  Basically a ranking.

Do you think you are still getting better at working on yourself and dealing with pwBPD behavior? 

Do you think that the wife is improving in therapy?

[bpbreakout]

Can you think through items on the list that are more or less important than other things on this list.

The most important issues are the kids growing up with limited damage / getting through school ok and my own personal happiness (ie can the relationship work) and how it affects the people around me (BPDw & kids). Money and new beginnings are less important to me.

Do you think you are still getting better at working on yourself and dealing with pwBPD behavior?

I have learned to look after myself more so less dependent in some ways, I have learned a lot about personal values/boundaries and SET, almost completely stopped JADEing and much less suspectible to FOG than I was. The next step for me would be starting to state what I want in the relationship and opening up about my own vulnerabilities  . I have touched on a couple of these things but so far the response is irritation. This could be a walk away point for me as I don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone who I cannot open up to & TBH shouldn't have spent the last 18 years in such a position.

Do you think that the wife is improving in therapy?

TBH I have no idea, I have asked and she won't talk about it and I obviously need to respect that. She has a lot of major FOO issues and I think she is mostly dealing with that. I would like to think that she was doing this to work out what she baggage she bring to the relationship but I suspect she may be a long way from that. This is also becoming a walkaway point, as much as I feel for her FOO issues I also feel like they have come to dominate our life at expense of relationship.

[formflier]

 

Can you expand on talking about what you want in a r/s and opening up about vulnerabilities.

What does that conversation look like? 

[bpbreakout]

Maybe a crazy thing to be putting in this site  :)but I would like a 2 way relationship where I can be open about how I feel about things and not feel punished. Recent example that has emerged for me over the last few weeks in my mind is that I now feel totally inadequate in the bedroom, apparently this is all my fault because  I don't provide enough romance, the phrase "step up to the mark" has been used quite a few times. After years of crisis management I can see her point in one sense because it's true I have become like a robot as a way of avoiding arguments. I get the BPD sense of rejection & how my behaviour has contributed to this, to her I have probably been very cruel and rejecting. However what I would really like is to be able to talk this through with my wife in a non-confrontation way and just find a way through. The diifculty is that BPDw finds this enormously irritating so it ends up making me feel worse. I think some guys can laugh this stuff off but I'm not sure I'm one off them.

[pallavirajsinghani]

bpbreakout:  This is specifically in response to your last post:  I am quoting another poster here:

"How can I kiss the lips that have been chewing my ass the whole day?"

Just letting you know

a) there is nothing that is out of bounds on this board.  All truth is welcome, understood, respected.

b) you are not alone in feeling like this and

c) now here I am going to get personal too to illustrate a point.  I have been married for 20 years now, we are in the total thick murky beautiful mess of raising two teenagers, a puppy, work and etc. etc.  And the sex life is very satisfying.  When we first married, I was full of romantic notions and being an imaginative person, expected to be romanced all the time.  As time went by and the daily grind took over and I saw that there was no "romance" in the traditional terms.  I took it to mean that he does not love me.  I felt neglected and unappreciated and abandoned and came within an inch of having an affair.  Then one entire day I fought with my husband with pleadings and accusations of him not loving me enough etc.  Finally in anger and frustration, he picked up a chair and smashed it on the floor.  I had never ever seen my husband so angry.  He is very gentle, very courteous, very self-contained.  This was just so out of this character.  He burst out,  "If I did not love you, I won't be coming home to you every day!"  The anguish in his voice shocked me.

I realized at that moment that "love" is different from "romance".  A mother loves her child whether his face is smeared with mud or not. 

And more on this later... .the tired goodlooking husband has walked in after a 12 hour work and I would love to kiss the ground he walks on (I mean it... .as a phrase of respect... .not sarcasm)... .

[formflier]

Maybe a crazy thing to be putting in this site  :)but I would like a 2 way relationship where I can be open about how I feel about things and not feel punished.

I totally think this is possible... .but my sense of where you are at now... .and where you want to go is pretty far apart.

I'm hoping you can identify some smaller "steps" that can be taken that are in the right direction.  Baby steps are good... .as long as they are consistently in the right direction.

Can you think of how to get from here to there (where you want to be) in a series of smaller steps?

[pallavirajsinghani]

... .and to continue... .

It took me some time (say a couple of years) to understand that love means the ability to withstand the daily grind and find it meaningful.  To do it happily, willingly and as a sacrament... .and to consider it a good fortune.  Then I started to find romance in different ways in our relationship.  Sometimes the way his Elvis Presley curl fell on his forehead or the way his eyes became lost within themselves, lids half closed when he played his guitar, the way he playfully did a funky dance in the kitchen to embarrass our teenagers... .I just felt as if romance was swirling all around me and I am still dancing within that glow.

The point I am making is that I expected my spouse to help me get "high" to give me those extraordinary magical moments that took me out of my real self and made me more glamorous than I am.  My expectations were not at all justified nor normal.  Afterall he saw me in Pajamas and dishevelled hair too... .

Creating romance is a matter of imagination.  We, and we alone are responsible for creating our own romance.  Romance is not in candlelights, fancy dinners, fancy vacations, petals on the bed, lingerie... .it is in the fact that a man works 60-70 hours because he loves his family and does it cheerfully, willingly day after day after day... .this is romance.

So I hope that I have taken some bite of the accusation against you for not being "romantic" enough.

[bpbreakout]

Creating romance is a matter of imagination.  We, and we alone are responsible for creating our own romance.  Romance is not in candlelights, fancy dinners, fancy vacations, petals on the bed, lingerie... .it is in the fact that a man works 60-70 hours because he loves his family and does it cheerfully, willingly day after day after day... .this is romance.

Thanks 

[bpbreakout]

Thanks again to everyone who provided feedback on this issue. I have been away for work but as a postscript BPDw has discussed her behavior with her therapist (good), we have both discussed in with MC (good) & I have discussed it with a couple of people who I trust (good). The MC was last and interesting as BPDw still believed it is my responsibility to calm things if she is is out of control that her trying to bash the door down is something to do with a traumatic childhood experience which she cannot articulate (mmm). I have been very very open with her in a non confrontational way. The fact that it is near impossible to remain calm when a door is being bashed down was not acknowledged whether it was deliberate or just plain went over her head I don't know (bad) At MC we discussed the idea that if things are escalating then it's a very good idea for both parties to seperately retreat to a safe part of the house before they get any worse (what I tried to do in the first place). BPDw seemed on board with this in a non commital kind of way & I think she is still half expecting that if she is raging I will leave the house & thus take responsibility for her behaviour (mmm). I've thought about this for a couple of weeks and I very strongly feel that I should feel safe enough (both emotionally and physically) in my own home to go to another part of the house without this kind of thing happening. This is really a walk away point for me & I'm expecting that she will respect this. There are some risks for me if she doesn't (ie her pushing me too far in one of her rages) which were pointed out in this thread & which I have told BPDw that I am fully aware of. I realise that in a sense I have handed her a loaded gun with which she can shoot me as no doubt she could or would report me. However I have decided to put the marriage on the line with this issue. Theye are many things we put up with with BPD partners and sadly feel that we become conditioned to things that we shouldn't have to put up with & on the raging issue I have reached my personal limit.

[Indyan]

BPDw seemed on board with this in a non commital kind of way & I think she is still half expecting that if she is raging I will leave the house & thus take responsibility for her behaviour (mmm).

Hi,

I'm not sure I agree with this. Unfortunately I've had to leave the house a couple of times to keep the kids (D10 + baby son) away from his rage. I was of course really upset about having to sleep at a hotel while HE could stay at home, but relieved too to be at peace with the kids. I didn't really feel that I was taking responsibility of anything, I just told calmly my daughter (his stepD) that "we wanted some peace". The next morning I went to the police and declared he had been abusive verbally.

The problem for me is not whether you are entitled or not for a peaceful corner in your house (), but more about what could happen if you left (let's say for a walk). Would your wife shift her anger toward the kids?

Last year, my BPD went wild because I woke him up during his nap. It was one month before baby was due and I was anxious to tidy up his future bedroom. BPD litteraly exploded, breaking the baby's bedroom door (which was open btw) and a large plastic box with baby clothes in it. My D10 freaked out and ended up in the garden screaming with despair and fear, poor kid.

I was really shocked, and everytime I saw that broken box it broke my heart

I almost left him for good then.

[formflier]

 

Thinking about things that are happening in your home... .and determining what you will and won't accept is a good thing.  It seems like you have thought long and hard about this.  And have gotten some guidance about this in a therapy situation.

One thing I would point out.  There are many things in my own life that I have changed through therapy and MC.  Very few of those were "lightbulb moments" where a T explained something once... .and I understood and changed behavior.  It was more a series of small steps... more gradual.

I would guess similar things happen with pwBPD.

So... .while you have figured out a hard line of what you are and aren't ready to "risk the marriage" over... .I would also encourage you to take a look at the steps you wife is taking to control this.  Talking to T about it... .some acknowledgement of responsibility... .etc etc.

I would keep the push more on there... .rather than drawing a hard line on behavior in the house... .as long as the general momentum is going in the right direction.

So... if she is saying there is a reason from her childhood for this... .then appropriate for you in the MC situation to make sure that gets referred to the individual counselor for your wife.  And whatever the appropriate forms and permissions to the MC and talk to the individual T... should be done.

If she moves in that direction... .that I'd give it time and space... .to let the individual T work it out.  If she tries to back out... .then boundaries might need to be thought about.

Thoughts?

[bpbreakout]

The problem for me is not whether you are entitled or not for a peaceful corner in your house (), but more about what could happen if you left (let's say for a walk). Would your wife shift her anger toward the kids

Hi Indyan, my kids are 13 and 15 and I'm the guy so the dynamics are different to yours. I think the fact that you are the mother could make it a lot easier to take the kids away when husband is raging. When the kids were younger I trod very carefully with this. There were times when I did leave the house on my own but left the kids as I did not want them to be in the middle of a tug of war. Having "possession" of the kids when she was disregulated was calming for her and though necessarily good for the kids. There were other times when I took them out of the house with me and it made them feel better and her more unstable, to be honest it was a no win situation. d15 is now adamant that she is not in the slightest scared of her mum's rages but s13 still has difficulties with coping as his mum turns to him for comfort if she is disregulating & I'm the enemey so I think is is subject to FOG at some level, I need a way of helping him walk away from this as it does concern me.

Hi formflier,

If she moves in that direction... .that I'd give it time and space... .to let the individual T work it out.  If she tries to back out... .then boundaries might need to be thought about.

I'm happy to give it time and space and I'm happy with my personal boundary. For a long time I have felt in part responsible for her rages (a case of FOG), the process of thinking all of this through has helped me detach and feel much calmer. If BPDw wants to bash doors down it really is her problem and hers alone. At this stage I prefer to remain married to see if we can make a go of it but I can also cope if things fall apart, d15 can cope if things fall apart and hopefully with a bit more help so can s13. If this does happen again the circumstances will be different and I'll find a way of dealing with them.

[formflier]

 

Are the kids involved in any kind of family therapy?  Or individual therapy?

It may be more powerful... .and less likely to boomerang back on you... .if you can get the kids in an individual therapy situation where they get to talk about what is going on in their lives. 

If the mum emerges as an issue... .then mum can come and hear it from the childs T... rather than you.

Plus... .this could equip the kids to handle this better... .and take you somewhat out of that role... .the role of compensating for the mum.

Thoughts?

[bpbreakout]

Hi formflier, d15 has been in therapy on and off for a number of years as she has borne the brunt of BPDw's illness form an early age. It's something I organised & BPDw has never been happy with it as she has felt threatended. It has undoubtedly helped d15 detach & realise that she is not a bad person despite all the crap she gets. Also d15 has an ADHD diagnosis as a result of this (FYI not on medication) which I think has helped as d15's untidiness has been a constant trigger for BPDw. The fact that d15 may genuinely need help with this has taken some pressure off. s13 did see a therapist a few years ago for other reasons which you may remember from my PM. He is mum's favourite and been much more balanced over the years and quite mature for his age. However now he is 13 and starting to assert his independence I think BPDw is having a lot of trouble with it, I'm wondering how I help him with this as I can see a future "co-dependent" in the making.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

Hi formflier, d15 has been in therapy on and off for a number of years as she has borne the brunt of BPDw's illness form an early age. It's something I organised & BPDw has never been happy with it as she has felt threatended. It has undoubtedly helped d15 detach & realise that she is not a bad person despite all the crap she gets. Also d15 has an ADHD diagnosis as a result of this (FYI not on medication) which I think has helped as d15's untidiness has been a constant trigger for BPDw. The fact that d15 may genuinely need help with this has taken some pressure off. s13 did see a therapist a few years ago for other reasons which you may remember from my PM. He is mum's favourite and been much more balanced over the years and quite mature for his age. However now he is 13 and starting to assert his independence I think BPDw is having a lot of trouble with it, I'm wondering how I help him with this as I can see a future "co-dependent" in the making.

My thinking is that it's not you that need to worry about helping him... .but you that need to worry about getting him and mum to help... .and stand aside.

Let mum be threatened by a T... .not you.  You are just following a professionals advice.  If mum has problems with this... .then the family T and mum's T need to talk... .to coordinate a way to deal with this.

You participate... but don't lead the effort.  That way you can "just be following the T's advice.

If mum doesn't like it... .she can talk to the T.

That kind of thing.

You have a complex situation on your hand.  Lots of individual issues that need to be coordinated... .

Thoughts?