What to expect with EMDR?

[takingandsending]

Hi all.

My uBPDw has started seeing a T  that specializes in EMDR. After her second session and first 10 minutes of actual EMDR therapy, she felt dizzy afterwards (maybe a few hours later?) and then felt as if she was out of body and disappearing. This is pretty common language with her that I now interpret to mean she is feeling a dissolution of her boundaries that define her "self". I was pretty attentive and interested in her experience. Later last night, she had a good sized dysregulation at bedtime with some SI (picks holes in the soles of her feet)  that was focused on us not spending enough time together. I think she was feeling frightened and lonely as a result of her work with T, but I couldn't really get too far with sympathy/empathy as she was too elevated to communicate. There were also environmental factors like not enough sleep the night before and a cold coming on. After 15-20 minutes of trying to communicate and avoid the blame/shame game, I just kept a boundary that the communication wasn't helping either of us and was in fact not good for me and slept on the couch.

Question - does anyone know if this is a pretty typical response to EMDR therapy, especially at the outset? I don't think her T has been given the BPD diagnosis by our MC. Am wondering if I should ask our MC to contact wife's T? Our MC does know wife's T and gave a nice endorsement of the T during our last session.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[maxsterling]

My fiancé is also going through EMDR, and she has been more irritable of late.  This is her second stint with EMDR.  The first one the T told her after a few sessions that she wasn't emotionally healthy enough for EMDR.  In other words, the EMDR was making things worse combined with her suicidal ideation.  She wound up getting into a fight with her T, and didn't go back. 

I'm told that part of EMDR requires re-processing of buried past traumas, and that patients often feel worse before feeling better. 

[DreamFlyer99]

Would it totally go against "the rules" to ask the EMDR T how this therapy works and what you should expect, and even what you should do when it brings on worse behavior? Since the SO is gonna be the one to catch whatever happens after the EMDR?

Past traumas are no little thing to deal with, even for someone not suffering from BPD. I've been doing some trauma work myself in the aftermath of my life thus far-- likely NPD mother and nearly 4 decades with my uBPDh. And even for me it's very troubling and triggers me to the point that my T said I should do an exercise in the workbook before I come to see her so she can help me through it. (I have Complex PTSD which has some overlaps with BPD.)

Sometimes I think therapy needs to be a group effort! Everybody needs to know what game we're playing so at least we're prepared.

My h's psychiatrist decided to see what my h looked like off his medication. (?) That particular piece of hell showed me that some sorts of work should be done only if the treating person has an extra room in their house for the person they're treating! Instead they get to treat them and send them back out into their normal lives, and everyone else is left to pick up the pieces.

[takingandsending]

That particular piece of hell showed me that some sorts of work should be done only if the treating person has an extra room in their house for the person they're treating!

 

Not to make light of it, DreamFlyer, but I really liked the way that you stated this.   

I am just getting into this, as my wife hasn't really been doing any formal treatment/T for some time, so thanks to you both for sharing your experiences. That she isn't formally diagnosed makes this whole team effort thing a lot harder. I feel like I am going behind her back to talk to our MC who related that this is BPD we are dealing with. That said, I think I will ask the MC to contact wife's EMDR T.

From the little I have read and what my wife described of the treatment, it is working with the brain's response to trauma, and the T has started with my wife's sexual abuse as a child. I think I am still hooked into the hope/fear cycle that T will help reduce the conflict in our house. I need to be realistic that T is going to come with the possibility of opening BPD symptoms up wider. 

[MissyM]

I have done EMDR and it definitely heightens emotions for a couple of days after and I have good self soothing skills.  Our marital DBT therapist stated that my dBPDh  doesn't have enough self soothing skills to do EMDR, yet.  I know of one person that was at treatment with my dBPDh and I that did EMDR and it totally flipped them out.  Most other people I know that do EMDR react in much the same way I did.  It has lead to me being much less triggered by my dBPDh (I was treated for PTSD from this relationship).  What self soothing skills does your pwBPD have?  EMDR is a great tool when it works but BPDs need a lot of support when doing it.

[takingandsending]

MissyM, good question. She is not great at self-soothing. She is developing a support/friend network but most don't know about her BPD. She does journal, self medicates with chocolate  , and has Buddhist philosophy and practice though she finds meditation difficult. I will encourage her to talk to her T about effects during/after treatment and ask our MC to share BPD diagnosis with her T. Hoping she manages better, but it sounds pretty intense. Of course, any T is going to trigger stuff no matter what. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[MissyM]

Taking, sounds like you are very understanding towards the struggles your BPDw is having.  Will be interested to hear how the EMDR helps for her long term. 

[JohnLove]

Would it totally go against "the rules" to ask the EMDR T how this therapy works and what you should expect, and even what you should do when it brings on worse behavior? Since the SO is gonna be the one to catch whatever happens after the EMDR?

Past traumas are no little thing to deal with, even for someone not suffering from BPD. I've been doing some trauma work myself in the aftermath of my life thus far-- likely NPD mother and nearly 4 decades with my uBPDh. And even for me it's very troubling and triggers me to the point that my T said I should do an exercise in the workbook before I come to see her so she can help me through it. (I have Complex PTSD which has some overlaps with BPD.)

Sometimes I think therapy needs to be a group effort! Everybody needs to know what game we're playing so at least we're prepared.

My h's psychiatrist decided to see what my h looked like off his medication. (?) That particular piece of hell showed me that some sorts of work should be done only if the treating person has an extra room in their house for the person they're treating! Instead they get to treat them and send them back out into their normal lives, and everyone else is left to pick up the pieces.

Hello DreamFlyer99, I am sorry to hear of your negative experiences but from reality comes truth. I felt it was very refreshing to hear what you have articulated.

I believe the only effective way to deal with BPD is to closely involve those closest around the pwBPD in whatever treatment modality is utilised. The trouble with modern medicine and mental health "specialists" is that it is all very separatist. BPD is a relational illness that causes severe dysfunction to the disordered person and their relationship with others around them with the epicentre being those that are the closest. Why the heck would you not involve them in treatment or at the very least have them well aware what is transpiring in the course of their treatment and what to expect?.

While I appreciate the difficulties in doing so and the average Joe (whoever he is) may not be much assistance or quite frankly in many cases even care, or want to be involved. It is much easier just to lump the problem entirely on the diagnosed person. Good luck with that. Unfortunately it is NOT that simple.

It's funny (or maybe not) that after reading your post that my friend had to see another GP at the clinic he attends after his regular GP moved out of the area. He attended the clinic because of an earache that needed investigation. This GP went on to question his weight, his partners weight (who only accompanied him to the appointment), went on to question other unrelated medical matters, and finally asked if he thought if his treating psychiatrist would be alright if she changed his psychiatrict medication as prescribed by his psychiatrist?. He flipped out at this point.

My friend spent a short stint in prison after an absolutely HUGE life event where he couldn't cope with the extreme invalidation and undermining of those around him. I know I couldn't have coped either when he explained the circumstances and his situation to me.

His psychiatrist is a highly qualified and well respected man that has written books on the subject and treated him for 10 years. To "mess" with his psychiatrict medication sounds like madness to him (and me).

To approach the subject of opening a person up from childhood sexual trauma would be like OPENING THE GATE TO HELL in most instances. Why do you think pwBPD developed a chronic and very severe mental disorder in these cases in the first place?. Any attempt here should not be undertaken lightly or without the possible consequences including to the therapist. You can only detach so much and then how much help can you be if you are completely detached?.

I agree DreamFlyer 99 that an unhelpful (for whatever reason) therapist may make the problem worse. That this is a possibility that must be considered and coped with if the prospect of fully healing is the ultimate (long term) goal.

[HoldingAHurricane]

EMDR is a trauma focused technique, ideally used in conjunction with other therapies. It is aimed at processing trauma related memories and integrating them because the idea is that traumatic memory is not processed properly at the time and remains potent hence why if has a residual triggering effect. This website talks more about it and what to expect. www.emdr.com/general-information/what-is-emdr.html. Sounds like your wife was experiencing some dissociation and its probably good for her therapist to know that.

With clients who have a high level of dissociation, and BPD is one of the highest, therapists need to have a lot of experience and more than introductory training. Mostly, because those clients rely on compartmentalization or dissociation to cope with life (albeit dysfunctionally) and if your break down the compartmentalisation without replacing it with other coping mechanisms the result is a person who is probably going to be more dysregulated with less ability to cope.

My husband's psychologist is a very experienced EMDR practitioner. He had been integrating EMDR right from the beginning. My husband is always much calmer and more removed from the trigger afterwards. Over time the trigger loses some of its potency, according to him. We have experienced great results from it.

[takingandsending]

Holding,

Thanks for the additional information. I will read up on the link. Yes, she was experiencing dissociation after the session. That was after 10 minutes of EMDR. How long does your husband receive that treatement within a session with his counselor? Our MC, who has experience with DBT and working with pwBPD stated during our session that wife's EMDR T is very experienced, loving and would hold my wife's safety throughout. It was encouraging to hear, as her last T was someone that our MC had never heard of (not necessarily good or bad - just a big question mark). My wife is receiving other therapy of sorts, working with a life coach who actually is doing boundary work with her in a non-traditional but reasonable way. And my wife has done a lot of self work, Brene Brown shame classes, etc. Thing is, the BPD is a lot bigger, more entrenched and dangerous than most of these therapy lite approaches, so none of them have been particularly effective.

I know that DBT in conjunction with EMDR is recommended, but our MC doesn't believe my wife will go for DBT, as it is group work and typically with participants that are much younger than she is. MC believes that my wife may bolster her defenses by dismissing DBT for people who don't have the tools that she has.

Again, not having formal diagnosis makes it harder for me to help on the therapy / treatment plan side. I will do what I can for now. I will watch after upcoming treatments for increases in emotional upset and dissociation. I feel for her. I wish I knew how to help her get all of the help and support that she should have. She is pretty brave, and she really does want healing in her life. I know this is a lifelong journey for her. At some point, I have to decide how much of my life journey I want to take beside her.  :'(

Thanks for your input. It is helpful to me.

[Patti Jane Levin PsyD]

maxsterling said: "I'm told that part of EMDR requires re-processing of buried past traumas, and that patients often feel worse before feeling better." While this may feel true at times in ANY therapy, EMDR therapy is the most gentle therapy I've ever known in 35+ years of being a psychologist (and as a client). That said, be certain the therapist is VERY experienced with both EMDR therapy and trauma disorders.

I use EMDR therapy as my primary psychotherapy treatment and I've also personally had EMDR therapy for anxiety, panic, grief, and “small t” trauma. As a client, EMDR worked extremely well and also really fast. As an EMDR therapist, and in my role as a facilitator who trains other therapists in EMDR therapy (certified by the EMDR International Association and trained by the EMDR Institute, both of which I strongly recommend in an EMDR therapist) I have used EMDR therapy successfully with panic disorders, PTSD, anxiety, depression, grief, body image, phobias, distressing memories, bad dreams, and many other problems. It's a very gentle method with no significant "down-side" so that in the hands of a professional EMDR therapist, there should be no freak-outs or worsening of day-to-day functioning.

One of the initial phases (Phase 2) in EMDR therapy involves preparing for memory processing or desensitization (memory processing or desensitization - phases 3-6 - is often what is referred to as "EMDR" which is actually an 8-phase method of psychotherapy). In this phase resources are "front-loaded" so that you have a "floor" or "container" to help with processing the really hard stuff, as well as creating strategies if you're triggered in everyday life. In Phase 2 you learn a lot of great coping strategies and self-soothing techniques which you can use during EMDR processing or anytime you feel the need.

In phase 2 you learn how to access a “Safe or Calm Place” which you can use at ANY TIME during EMDR processing (or on your own) if it feels scary, or too emotional, too intense. One of the key assets of EMDR therapy is that YOU, the client, are in control NOW, even though you weren’t in the past, during traumatic events. You NEVER need re-live an experience or go into great detail, ever! You NEVER need to go through the entire memory. YOU can decide to keep the lights (or the alternating sounds and/or tactile pulsars, or the waving hand, or any method of bilateral stimulation that feels okay to you and your parts) going, or stop them, whichever helps titrate – measure and adjust the balance or “dose“ of the processing. During EMDR processing there are regular “breaks” and you can control when and how many but the therapist should be stopping the bilateral stimulation every 25-50 passes of the lights to ask you to take a deep breath and say just a bit of what you’re noticing, anything different, any changes. (The stimulation should not be kept on continuously, because there are specific procedures that need to be followed to process the memory). The breaks help keep a “foot in the present” while you’re processing the past. Again, and I can’t say this enough, YOU ARE IN CHARGE so YOU can make the process tolerable. And your therapist should be experienced in the EMDR therapy techniques that help make it the gentlest and safest way to detoxify bad life experiences and build resources.

Grounding exercises are essential. You can use some of the techniques in Dr. Shapiro's new book "Getting Past Your Past: Take Control of Your Life with Self-Help Techniques from EMDR." Dr. Shapiro is the founder/creator of EMDR but all the proceeds from the book go to two charities: the EMDR Humanitarian Assistance Program and the EMDR Research Foundation). The book is an easy read, helps you understand what's "pushing" your feelings and behavior, helps you connect the dots from past experiences to current life. Also gives lots of really helpful ways that are used during EMDR therapy to calm disturbing thoughts and feelings.

Pacing and dosing are critically important. So if you ever feel that EMDR processing is too intense then it might be time to go back over all the resources that should be used both IN session and BETWEEN sessions. Your therapist can use a variety of techniques to make painful processing less painful, like suggesting you turn the scene in your mind to black and white, lower the volume, or, erect a bullet-proof glass wall between you and the painful scene, and so forth. There are a lot of these kinds of "interventions" that ease the processing. They are called "cognitive interweaves" that your therapist can use, and that also can help bring your adult self's perspective into the work (or even an imaginary Adult Perspective). Such interweaves are based around issues of Safety, Responsibility, and Choice. So therapist questions like "are you safe now?" or "who was responsible? and "do you have more choices now?" are all very helpful in moving the processing along.

And, BTW, The World Health Organization has published "Guidelines for the management of conditions that are specifically related to stress: "Trauma-focused CBT and EMDR are the only therapies recommended for children, adolescents and adults with PTSD. Like CBT with a trauma focus, EMDR therapy aims to reduce subjective distress and strengthen adaptive cognitions related to the traumatic event. Unlike CBT with a trauma focus, EMDR does not involve (a) detailed descriptions of the event, (b) direct challenging of beliefs, (c) extended exposure, or (d) homework." (Geneva, WHO, 2013)

[MissyM]

I know that DBT in conjunction with EMDR is recommended, but our MC doesn't believe my wife will go for DBT, as it is group work and typically with participants that are much younger than she is. MC believes that my wife may bolster her defenses by dismissing DBT for people who don't have the tools that she has.

Yes, I think DBT with EMDR is a great approach from what I have been told.  DBT can be done one on one with a therapist and we do couples DBT, so going off to a class by herself would not be a necessity.  Our marital DBT therapist does different DBT groups and said that she would put my husband with other professional men, if he decided to add that in.  I would think there would be a DBT therapist around with an age appropriate group for your wife.

[DreamFlyer99]

SUCH an interesting thread!



Takingandsending, in a way I've HAD to make light of some of it or i'd go over the edge!

So interesting about EMDR. I had read about it previously but this has been the real low-down!

JohnLove, your poor friend! One of my sil's is a GP and I think they really do get to thinking they know more than others... .rather than hear that I've left my uBPDh for at least a time so I can do some healing and have him be supportive, he and my daughter seem to have put me on a Time-Out for bad behavior and won't hardly speak to me! And this after frequent conversations via Skype and text for years. Bah Humbug. The God Complex. I think he didn't like it that I made a boundary to not talk about my marriage problems with them anymore. Most of my family isn't enjoying my new boundaries. Of course the BPD in my life is spinning them stories about me... . 

Dr Levin, thank you so much for that full-on description! Not to call you a large rideable animal, but it's great to hear it from the horse's mouth.

[hope2727]

My fiancee has been in therapy with a Phd psychologist for years and finally when he did EMDR it tipped him over the edge into his first psychotic break. Not pleasant at all. He was completely hysterical and dissociated. He couldn't function well enough to tell me apart from his ex wife. The psychologist in question thought it was appropriate to let him leave the office after he cleared described no less than 3 ways he intended to kill himself on his way home. He ended up in our living room completely hysterical raging and pacing incoherently for about 4-5 hours at which point he literally collapsed and slept to 12 hours. SO beware. EMDR has its downsides if the person is not adequately able to deal with the emotions it brings up. The same psychologist thought it wise to try again a week later. He ended up in inpatient care at that point and she was removed from his case thank god.

The psychologists I have spoken to about this including a prof at out local university said EMDR id ONLY suitable once the person is able to regulate their emotions adequately. If not you are dumping all those traumatic memories onto a mind that can't even deal with a misinterpreted glance or perceived abandonment.

In the case of my fiancee he has been in and out of psych in patient care ever since the EMDR and now sees a new team but refuses more EMDR. I am in fact relieved. The neighbours almost called the police that day and in truth I should have done it myself. He was completely irrational and incoherent. He has done this 5 times total since the first incident that I know of and in truth I am afraid that any further probing of his childhood winds prior to extensive DBT will result in suicide.

Just a heads up. It may be a great tool but perhaps it can be introduced to early.

[takingandsending]

hope2727, that sounds really scary! But it leaves me utterly perplexed. 

Why is EMDR identified as a good adjunct to DBT or even remotely recommended as a therapy for BPD when self regulation is nowhere in the lexicon of most pwBPD? It seems like there are two stories going on here, and they don't even remotely match.

I have expressed my concern to our MC, and she committed to helping me contact my wife's T with concern over BPD and pacing of EMDR. My wife's last session was no EMDR, just straight CBT, which left her feeling pretty sensitive and some dissociation.

Please, if anyone else has experience here, I'd appreciate it. I don't want my wife to come off the rails. She is trying to get help, and we have two small children that need her functioning on some level.

[DreamFlyer99]

With my complex PTSD (which has many overlaps of symptoms to BPD) I've found trauma work very triggering. And I have a strong sense of self, something a pwBPD doesn't until they gain some healing. The trauma work I've done includes learning to visualize my Safe place, like Dr Levin was mentioning in her description of EMDR. I'm still struggling to learn to put it in place when i'm triggered, though i'm getting better at seeing what the origin is of my trigger more quickly.

My ptsd has come with dissociation too, and that along with my breakdowns into calling myself names in my head and wishing for death, seems to come from when I go back into the child part of me in response to the huge stress my BPD husband's rages caused. My t has described it as the rules for survival I made up when I was really really young in a non-nurturing and scary environment. They don't serve me well as an adult, and I've worked hard to build more adult rules, but I can still be triggered back into that terrified little girl who was just trying to deal somehow with all the craziness around her.

If CBT can cause your wife to dissociate, i'd want to be SURE to do what Dr. Levin said and

be certain the therapist is VERY experienced with both EMDR therapy and trauma disorders.

This sounds to me like the therapist would benefit from knowing the BPD diagnosis, since it would give a lot more information about the possibilities.

[maxsterling]

My ptsd has come with dissociation too, and that along with my breakdowns into calling myself names in my head and wishing for death, seems to come from when I go back into the child part of me in response to the huge stress my BPD husband's rages caused. My t has described it as the rules for survival I made up when I was really really young in a non-nurturing and scary environment. They don't serve me well as an adult, and I've worked hard to build more adult rules, but I can still be triggered back into that terrified little girl who was just trying to deal somehow with all the craziness around her.

Interesting discussion here.  I'm wondering if I have some "natural" coping mechanisms in place.  What do you mean by "safe place"?  When things get really heated, I tend to daydream about some things that I always have found comforting.  I've done that ever since I was a kid.  And they don't have to be heated - I could be bored, uncomfortable, hungry, etc.  That seems to be my natural reaction when my brain wants to go into a bad place - to daydream about things I find comforting.  Same goes when my fiancé is dysregulating.  I "check out" so that things don't hurt so bad.  This behavior had kinda fallen by the wayside the past few years, but I have noticed that I'm back into it again in dealing with BPD rages.  It seems to be a constructive way to deal with things to a point.  My issue is that I tend to withdraw in other areas of life, too, and I find myself spending time I should be using to do other things simply daydreaming. 

[DreamFlyer99]

maxsterling,

so interesting! Making a Safe place is pretty much what you said, either building a new or referring back to an old place or time that was comforting and makes you feel safe. That way you can visualize it when you feel unsafe. It's a good thing to have when trauma is being triggered and is telling us we are "unsafe." I would imagine that it's counterproductive when another skill might serve us better, like a boundary about how we'll be treated in our partner's raging dysregulation.

The ways I would disappear before during my husband's rages were not healthy adult ways to cope, they were my child-like "skills." I always hid from my parents' fights by reading, hiding in the closet, stuff like that. I'd feel compelled to disappear those same ways when triggered by my h's rages, and did sometimes after I could escape. But when I realized I was dissociating and probably had been since I was a small child, that freaked me out and showed me how bad our relationship was!

It sounds like you did develop a very useable skill as a child, being able to hide away from things that weren't comfortable. It's a way to self-soothe. It sounds like you realize when you're using it in a less adult way currently, though, right?

[DreamFlyer99]

Takingandsending,

there's a whole discussion on EMDR and trauma here: EMDR and PTSD

that you might find interesting.

[takingandsending]

So far so good. uBPDw hasn't received any further EMDR her past two sessions, and her T seems to be working CBT and developing safe place and meditations to build her self soothing. I suggested that she have a plan in place after seeing her T to do some self-comfort activities in a supportive environment. She did that today and had a really good session. She said she had a 20 minute period of just sinking into stillness.    That's a big deal for her, as she usually gets very squirmy when she meditates and her mind is off to the races. I was so genuinely happy for her.

I am going to see our MC this weekend on a solo visit. I will talk to MC about whether I ought to seek out my own T. I feel much happier for my wife making some positive steps for healing. Her book has been self published, and she's enjoying the good response from her friends and people who follow her blog. It's a good time for her. Which really makes it strange why I don't feel particularly more optimistic about our rs working out. I guess it's like MaxSterling suggests: don't set your sights too high when they start T because it is a long up and down process. I don't know. It sounds safe to not hope, I guess, but not very promising. Meaning and intimacy still seem years away.

[DreamFlyer99]

It sounds safe to not hope, I guess, but not very promising. Meaning and intimacy still seem years away.

When the thought about "hope" comes up I always have to go back to something my therapist told me a while back: that we can only have true hope for the things we ourselves can control, as in our behaviors, our skills, our actions. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

My problem was always that I would be "hoping" that if I got my husband to read the right book, go to the right conference, he'd "catch on." That was just wishful thinking because I had no control over his responses--heck, I couldn't get him to even consider going to the conference or read the book!

So my hope had to be in me learning new ways of having better boundaries around the things I value, like respect in how he treated me, stuff like that. 

[takingandsending]

Hi DreamFlyer99.

Yeah. You are right about that. Hoping for someone else to change or conform to what I want is not so healthy. 

My wife is continuing her EMDR. She had a 45 minute full session of it while I was out of town on a business trip. She really blissed out, which I couldn't tell whether it was really just good feeling or she was dissociating in a not so scary way? I guess it really doesn't matter. She had a positive experience, and she seems to be moving toward feeling empowered right now. I will enjoy the ride while it lasts. 

We have been making a point of connecting and talking more after the kids are in bed. It's nice to see that part of my wife again. She still frequently tells me what I am thinking and feeling about her and reacts to those thoughts, but I don't react to the bait much at all lately. That's becoming my new mantra, Don't React, Don't React, Don't React.

Even when the kids get involved in a dust up with her, I don't feel so much need to rescue her or them. I was even able to coach my S8 to not react when she had a particularly angry-at-the-family evening. She tried to hook me, couldn't, got frustrated and tried to hook him. He was rising to the bait when I just explained that he didn't have to say or do anything when mom yells at him, that it's okay for her to be angry, and nothing really needed to be done about it. She continued to escalate, but she had nowhere to go with it. I encouraged her to take care of herself in whatever way she needed to. After fuming for a while, she went upstairs. When I joined her, I was able to let her vent and validate her feeling angry without ever really feeling it was personal. Next day, everything was fine.

Our MC kind of put me on the spot last week, asking us both (but really looking intently at me) to consider what our marriage means for us. Loaded question. I am still skirting that one, for sure. But I am seeking out my own T to help me dive in and understand more of my entangled patterns of relating to people that I love.

Thank you all for the support and kindness you have given thus far. 

[Theo41]

I am a "non BPD " and consider myself relatively normal as do most close friends and relatives who know me. 

I had a traumatic ending to my career after a five year stint in an impossible job under an immature and harsh supervisor. I went to a therapist and he used EMDR therapy to reprogram my brains response / thinking about this experience to a more positive and realistic and a  less emotionally negative reaction. It worked and their were no negative side effects.

However, a friend of mind with mental and emotional issues, recently went through EMDR and has had some unsettling results. He is hoping this is temporary and tha the longer term result will be salutary. Theo

[DreamFlyer99]

Hi DreamFlyer99.

Yeah. You are right about that. Hoping for someone else to change or conform to what I want is not so healthy. 

Thank you all for the support and kindness you have given thus far. 

But wouldn't it be awesome if our hoping worked?   And you're so welcome, we're hear to support each other, that's the beauty of this place.

SO GREAT about not engaging! My therapist would tell me to wiggle my toes in my shoes to remind myself to not repeat my old patterns with my husband, but i'm often barefoot so had to do it mentally.  Your mantra is exactly that--a challenge to your old patterns. Once you start that process you can breathe again. So wonderful that you're having success AND helping your son to learn he's not responsible for mommy's feelings. Boy do I wish somebody had taught me that a hundred or so years ago (give or take.)

Theo, that's so interesting! maybe the less deeply entrenched the trauma is has a better chance with the EMDR--i'm so glad it worked for you. Phew!