Wife is asking for something again

[startrekuser]

Hi,

I took a break from these forums b/c things were going well (relatively).  I've learned better how to calm down my wife when she's upset and also to keep her from getting upset in the first place. 

Anyway, her issues have entwined my family, including my dad and brother and his wife.  My father had been sending her emails over the years with invites for all of us to get together and she got upset by this, seeing as she hates my brother and sister in law.  So she emailed him back to not email her anymore.  So he complied.  Now he's on vacation with his woman friend and is sending photos to me, my brother and sister-in-law via email.  My wife is upset and says I shouldn't be on the children email list if she isn't on the list.  She says that I should tell him to send me emails separately from everybody else.  I don't want to give in to this. How should I handle this?  Thanks.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[joshbjoshb]

I know your feelings... .both on the first part and the second. I, too, tend not to visit these forums when things are going well. I think it's wrong because basically we bury our heads in the sand and think it will be all better now. The truth is that when things are calm then is the time to learn, to master new skills, and get prepared for the next wave that will surely come!

I also know your feelings about your wife. My wife is very similar. She refuses to be part of my family, yet when they don't include her she is upset.

I don't think it's anything rational there.

What to do? Well, imo you can simply ask her "do you want me to ask my dad to include you on those thread? I assume he didn't include you because you asked him not to email you anymore."

If she says yes, go ahead and ask your father. Make clear to him that it's his decision.

Does he know about your wife's BPD? If yes I am sure he will be more understanding. If not, he might think that she is rude. Either way it shouldn't reflect or impact your relationship with him in any way.

[startrekuser]

I know your feelings... .both on the first part and the second. I, too, tend not to visit these forums when things are going well. I think it's wrong because basically we bury our heads in the sand and think it will be all better now. The truth is that when things are calm then is the time to learn, to master new skills, and get prepared for the next wave that will surely come!

I also know your feelings about your wife. My wife is very similar. She refuses to be part of my family, yet when they don't include her she is upset.

I don't think it's anything rational there.

What to do? Well, imo you can simply ask her "do you want me to ask my dad to include you on those thread? I assume he didn't include you because you asked him not to email you anymore."

If she says yes, go ahead and ask your father. Make clear to him that it's his decision.

Does he know about your wife's BPD? If yes I am sure he will be more understanding. If not, he might think that she is rude. Either way it shouldn't reflect or impact your relationship with him in any way.

You seem to really understand my plight.  Yes, she doesn't want to be part of the family, but complains when she's left out.  It's nuts.  Yes, my father knows she's BPD.  It's funny, but this time I knew that it would come again - the BPD behavior, that is.  I didn't do any special preparation in the mean time though.  Thanks for the advice! I think I'll try it.

[startrekuser]

I know your feelings... .both on the first part and the second. I, too, tend not to visit these forums when things are going well. I think it's wrong because basically we bury our heads in the sand and think it will be all better now. The truth is that when things are calm then is the time to learn, to master new skills, and get prepared for the next wave that will surely come!

I also know your feelings about your wife. My wife is very similar. She refuses to be part of my family, yet when they don't include her she is upset.

I don't think it's anything rational there.

What to do? Well, imo you can simply ask her "do you want me to ask my dad to include you on those thread? I assume he didn't include you because you asked him not to email you anymore."

If she says yes, go ahead and ask your father. Make clear to him that it's his decision.

Does he know about your wife's BPD? If yes I am sure he will be more understanding. If not, he might think that she is rude. Either way it shouldn't reflect or impact your relationship with him in any way.

The problem will come if she says NO to my request, that she doesn't want me to ask him and still wants me to separate myself from the list.  Then I'll have a problem.

[joshbjoshb]

You will not have a problem but an opportunity that is to practice boundaries. You don't have to yell, scream or hurt her in any which way, yet you can still tell her - like I tell my wife many times - "they are my family and I am not going to stop being in touch with them".

Once she told me that basically I "betray" her because I have relationship with them. Oh well. Too bad she feels this way. But knowing that she might feel different things that have very little base in reality helps me.   

[startrekuser]

You will not have a problem but an opportunity that is to practice boundaries. You don't have to yell, scream or hurt her in any which way, yet you can still tell her - like I tell my wife many times - "they are my family and I am not going to stop being in touch with them".

Once she told me that basically I "betray" her because I have relationship with them. Oh well. Too bad she feels this way. But knowing that she might feel different things that have very little base in reality helps me.  

thanks again. She wants me to ask my father to send me emails with the same content, but separately from my brother and sister n law.  How do I answer that one?

[joshbjoshb]

If he knows that she has BPD you are very lucky. No one in my family knows. You can simply ask him - what do you care? If he will be fine - what do you care, again?

[startrekuser]

If he knows that she has BPD you are very lucky. No one in my family knows. You can simply ask him - what do you care? If he will be fine - what do you care, again?

I want to stay on the same email list.  I want to at least feel like I have some connection to my brother, even though she doesn't allow me to have a relationship with him.  I don't want to ask my father to send me a separate email from my brother and sister in law.

[joshbjoshb]

Sorry, I misread your email.

She can want whatever she wants. But you don't have to do it if you don't like it. Tell her the truth (I want to stay on the same email because I like to feel part of the family). She might rage... .then it's time to try all of what you learned... .just be ready because it's going to come.

By me, the second there is any expected visit from anyone in my family she is going into major sensitive mode where the rage will come - it's just a matter of an excuse.

So she wants you to ask your father to remove you from that main email - say no. Nice, polite, but no. Heck, you can decide for yourself. You are an adult.

[maxsterling]

Seems to me that as absurd as this is, it could be a request that your dad would easily comply with.  And if he does, that may be the best way to just move on (for now - because there will be something else)  I understand why you don't want to give in.  Because if you give in to this, what's next?  I should ask - how does your W even know you are getting photos emailed to a group list?  Are you simply showing her the photos, or is she actually reading your email?

This must be a common BPD problem.  This weekend my fiancé was going on about how my parents and my family don't even care that we are getting married (not true at all), how they haven't offered to give us any money, and if they did give us money it would not be very much.  Then she complained how she doesn't like my sister in law and doesn't want help from her or my family.  So on one hand she says she doesn't like them and doesn't want their help, but on the other hand is upset that they aren't helping    And then my dad called me on Sunday and told me they plan on giving us a significant amount.  Her parents?  Nothing.  So she got excited with the amount my parents said they would give us (still hasn't apologized for the hurtful words, though) then told her parents, and now is saying she shouldn't have told her parents.  It's one of those things where I wish I could be sent on a business trip on a remote island for two weeks with limited phone coverage!

[startrekuser]

Sorry, I misread your email.

She can want whatever she wants. But you don't have to do it if you don't like it. Tell her the truth (I want to stay on the same email because I like to feel part of the family). She might rage... .then it's time to try all of what you learned... .just be ready because it's going to come.

By me, the second there is any expected visit from anyone in my family she is going into major sensitive mode where the rage will come - it's just a matter of an excuse.

So she wants you to ask your father to remove you from that main email - say no. Nice, polite, but no. Heck, you can decide for yourself. You are an adult.

Yes, I know I can decide for myself.  I just can't bare the rage.  I'll be nice when I say no.  I would love to tell her off, but I know I can't do that.  Thanks for your moral support.  That's really what I was looking for.

[joshbjoshb]

The fear or rage is the worst part for us. You must learn how to deal with it. Understand that you being scared of her reaction doesn't say anything about her, only about you! In other words, her raging is one issue - you being scared of that is another.

Maybe this is why you have her in your life - to teach you to be strong. Some people will never do it themselves so they are being pushed to it... .

I know how you feel though. I was exactly in that same place. Now, at least I am not so scared of her rage. I don't like it, in fact I hate it - but just less scared.

[startrekuser]

The fear or rage is the worst part for us. You must learn how to deal with it. Understand that you being scared of her reaction doesn't say anything about her, only about you! In other words, her raging is one issue - you being scared of that is another.

Maybe this is why you have her in your life - to teach you to be strong. Some people will never do it themselves so they are being pushed to it... .

I know how you feel though. I was exactly in that same place. Now, at least I am not so scared of her rage. I don't like it, in fact I hate it - but just less scared.

I was strong and she raged and she's still raging.  She'll be pissed for days, maybe weeks.  She's trying everything.  She says we're not a team, I'm hurting her, etc, etc, etc.  So I'll have no marriage and will be on edge for weeks now.  It's really horrible.  She will basically go on strike and threaten me with divorce and on and on and on.  Once she's in a rage, none of the techniques work with her.  I've tried them repeatedly and they don't work once she's in a rage.

[startrekuser]

I want to go over to the other side - the "I'm leaving my BPD relationship forums."  We just had such a nice weekend and did things for eachother and were getting along wonderfully, then POW!  I'm going to the undecided forums b/c we have a beautiful 13 year old daughter together.  If it wasn't for my concern for her well-being, it would be a very easy decision to make.  I would be gone tomorrow.  Actually, I would already be gone.

[joshbjoshb]

I fully fully understand you.

However, just for you to know - your reaction to your BPD spouse is something you have to work on, whether or not you are leaving!

Your fear... .avoiding conflicts... .etc... .perhaps a bit co-dependency... .are all your issues. Not hers.

Please don't take me wrong. She has many issues and only if she will deal with them, life will be almost all better. But you should use this situation to be honest with yourself and work on yourself.

[takingandsending]

Hi startrekuser. I was wondering where you were. You are correct - tools won't work while she is enraged. But I am proud of you for holding what you value. I too have allowed my wife to dictate my relationship with my family - basically limiting it to what supports her in the moment. But the key is that I allowed this.

I am sorry that you are suffering through her rage right now. I can only encourage you to take care of you and your daughter during this time. You are not obligated to absorb your wife's unhappiness. Acknowledge and move on and if she won't, step away for your own sake.

Give yourself the care and time to consider what's right for you in a hard situation with your caring for your daughter. Whatever you decide, we will be here for you. I am in a ver similar boat as you with two young children. You are doing a lot of good work reducing the conflict, but you have to have your life too. 

[startrekuser]

I fully fully understand you.

However, just for you to know - your reaction to your BPD spouse is something you have to work on, whether or not you are leaving!

Your fear... .avoiding conflicts... .etc... .perhaps a bit co-dependency... .are all your issues. Not hers.

Please don't take me wrong. She has many issues and only if she will deal with them, life will be almost all better. But you should use this situation to be honest with yourself and work on yourself.

I stayed strong (except when I lost my temper) and I didn't give in.  She said she was going to send the email to my Dad using my email and in my name and I begged her not to.  She has access to my email.  So, I changed my password and she is FUMING! By the way, she has done that before - sent an email from my email account in my name and I DON'T LIKE IT.  So basically, I went a step further than I imagined I would and did the right thing and cut her off from my email.  She's escalating now in many ways.  I'm not giving in.  I will threaten to move out though, if I have to.

[startrekuser]

I fully fully understand you.

However, just for you to know - your reaction to your BPD spouse is something you have to work on, whether or not you are leaving!

Your fear... .avoiding conflicts... .etc... .perhaps a bit co-dependency... .are all your issues. Not hers.

Please don't take me wrong. She has many issues and only if she will deal with them, life will be almost all better. But you should use this situation to be honest with yourself and work on yourself.

Fear of her rage is normal and I will never ever lose that fear.  Why wouldn't I fear it or at least feel tremendous anxiety about it when I know something that I do will trigger it?

And avoiding conflicts.  I did't avoid this one and what do I get?  A horrible long argument, I'm very upset and I won't sleep tonight and I'll be a basket case tomorrow.  I'm very angry now.  F--- HER!  So what issues do I have.  I hate her, that's one.  I'm miserable, two. If I had just given in, I wouldn't be so upset.  My father would have been upset and I would have peace.  So what's my solution.

[JohnLove]

I have read your posts and I for one am very sorry for what you are enduring startrekuser.

There is almost never a win-win in these situations... .and if there is, it's almost like there is no free lunch. Somebody always pays. In this case... .either you or your father. I know it's not fair.

I hear that your relationship with your brother is already suffering. This is YOUR family of origin. I am sure that if these relationships are under duress there will be others around you (or you wish you could have more to do with) that this crap will impact.

Your wife, her opinions, and her feelings should be a priority but BPD screws with this badly.

The fear of her rage is yours... .as others have said... .you shouldn't be fearful of your wife and neither she of you. Your anger is not only normal but expected. It is unfair and she is being unreasonable.

Hating her is yours too. She doesn't have control of her emotions nor full control of herself. Hating her and then trying to make the relationship work are mutually exclusive things. She will be hyper attuned to you. Even if she doesn't "see" it... .she will feel it. It may be the thing that continually triggers her to continue to dysregulate for these lengthy periods. I have witnessed pwBPD unregulate (if that's a word) just as quickly. Sometimes you have to think way outside the square with these people. Try considering doing something radically different. Would she expect flowers?. If she knows you care and are on her "side", along with validation, you may make some progress or have a deeper appreciation or understanding of each other in your relationship.

I hear you want to stand your ground. I would as well. That is your choice.

If she is at the REALLY severe end of the BPD spectrum there may be NOTHING you can do to improve the situation. Try everything first... .then if everything fails, you are in deal breaker territory. She has to want to work in with you and on herself if necessary.

I hope it works out for you... .

[takingandsending]

startrekuser,

My heart is aching with you. And I really appreciate the courage you have to be honest. I, too, hit a point where I felt hatred for my wife. And I get the feeling from your posts, that this isn't you, it's not aligned with how you see life or even yourself. And yet, you did the right thing by your values to not let your wife engage in harmful communications with your dad or brother, knowing that it would likely cause you harm. So I think you are probably stronger than you give yourself credit for.

Are you getting any help for yourself? Do you see a T on your own for your needs? Are there other people in your life that you can go to for support? Perhaps you are already doing all of that right now, and if so, I can only encourage you to continue to seek the support and connection that everyone needs, particularly when they are being attacked by someone that they loved.

Do your best to remember that you have a choice, and it is absolutely acceptable for you to leave the house, go for a walk, go for a drive, or in some manner create space for yourself until your wife can come down from the anger/blame/shame/etc. The pwBPD needs us to have consistent boundaries. One of mine that I am still developing some muscle around is that I won't be engaged in name calling, shaming or blaming. It demoralizes me. It harms me. It harms our children. It harms my wife. I will not allow it to have a place in my life any longer. I hope that you can regain some peace of mind and take care of yourself in this.

Please let us know how you are doing. We are here for you.

[startrekuser]

startrekuser,

My heart is aching with you. And I really appreciate the courage you have to be honest. I, too, hit a point where I felt hatred for my wife. And I get the feeling from your posts, that this isn't you, it's not aligned with how you see life or even yourself. And yet, you did the right thing by your values to not let your wife engage in harmful communications with your dad or brother, knowing that it would likely cause you harm. So I think you are probably stronger than you give yourself credit for.

Are you getting any help for yourself? Do you see a T on your own for your needs? Are there other people in your life that you can go to for support? Perhaps you are already doing all of that right now, and if so, I can only encourage you to continue to seek the support and connection that everyone needs, particularly when they are being attacked by someone that they loved.

Do your best to remember that you have a choice, and it is absolutely acceptable for you to leave the house, go for a walk, go for a drive, or in some manner create space for yourself until your wife can come down from the anger/blame/shame/etc. The pwBPD needs us to have consistent boundaries. One of mine that I am still developing some muscle around is that I won't be engaged in name calling, shaming or blaming. It demoralizes me. It harms me. It harms our children. It harms my wife. I will not allow it to have a place in my life any longer. I hope that you can regain some peace of mind and take care of yourself in this.

Please let us know how you are doing. We are here for you.

My wife threw out a lot of the food that I use to make my breakfast and lunch. She put her rings in my lunch bag.  I feel very beat up and tired, so I took a nap at lunch time in my car.  There's more to the story b/c last night I told her I want to have a relationship with my brother even though he was very critical of my wife (it wasn't much, but to her it was extreme criticism).  She's extremely upset over this and is in full BPD mode.  The shaming and blaming is at a peak.

[joshbjoshb]

The fact she has a rage attack is not surprising to anyone here... .the question is how do you feel. Are you stronger... .more empowered... .less upset... .more confident... .and if not, what are you doing to get there?

You need for a little bit to stop thinking about her.

[JohnLove]

I think I'm going to retract my suggestion to buy her flowers... .

When my relationship with my BPDex broke down and she wouldn't allow me inside my own home I would sleep in my car in the driveway... .because I had children. This is painful.

You might be trying too hard startrekuser. I might stand by my earlier comments about what you own but in these situations she owns so much of these problem. Your brother probably had every right to be critical of your wife. By what you have described her behaviour is pretty much unacceptable by any standard!.

I wouldn't try to force too much at once and probably nothing if she is in a rage.

Unless you are trying to catapult the relationship into extinction.

[formflier]

Startrekuser,

You are in the middle of it! Please read about boundaries and extinction burst ASAP


I went through one of these over email access.  I stayed strong and it was a turning point... .

I can't emphasize enough that you must see this boundary through.  Giving in is worse... . 

Stay strong... .you can do this! 


Next:  I saw something about you threatening to leave the house or do something else... .please consider things from her point of view.  Do NOT escalate!

Just stick with your boundary... .nothing more.

[formflier]

A quick note on "big theory" of dealing with inlaws.

Way before I learned about BPD I "got out of the middle of the road" in my wife dealing with my parents and my family.

I decided to no longer be a go between... .play telephone... .any of that. 

Sometimes I will pass a simple message... ."dinner time changed to 630... ."  but nothing that conveys feelings... .or could be a big deal... .or looks for some type of compliance.

What you want to avoid is being responsible for the choices of others.

When they try to make you responsible for the choices of others... .I love the phrase "help me understand... ."  be conscious about not using the word "why"

They most likely will eventually tire of trying to get you to make other people do things... .they can do that directly with them

While I learned that before I ever even heard of BPD or BPD traits... .I think this is good theory to continue with.

Thoughts?

[123Phoebe]

Next:  I saw something about you threatening to leave the house or do something else... .please consider things from her point of view.  Do NOT escalate!

Just stick with your boundary... .nothing more.

This is excellent advice

Had a situation yesterday.  It was interesting in that, he was the one who was "JADE-ing" all over the place while I held true to my boundary.  I could see where he was coming from, validated that, yet still hung onto myself.  Was even able to navigate our opposing views as "agreement" of how they originated---> feeling invalidated.

It would have been easy to stomp all over him, jump into his excuses and thoughts, demanding he see things from my perspective, as I thought I was totally in the right about this particular situation   BUT, I didn't want to be "right", I wanted to be "fair" and I desired to bring us closer, not to push him away.

It worked

[formflier]

 Nice Work!     

[startrekuser]

I made a big recovery last night.  From a loving standpoint, I "spoke" with her, even though she was in complete lunatic mode.  I repeated back the things (wacko exaggerations, distortions and falsifications) she said that I said and that worked out decently.  I made sure not to look her in the eyes because of the flames coming out of them.  I find her expressions of extreme anger and hate to be provocative.  When she kept interrupting me, I said that I have to leave now "b/c you're not letting me communicate".  She would ask me not to leave and say that she wouldn't interrupt anymore.  This happened a few times.  Finally, when I wanted to leave the conversation and go to sleep, I said so.  I said that I want to take a break now and go to sleep and we can resume tomorrow.  I said it very nicely and humbly and she didn't pursue me.

I think I managed to handle the situation very well and didn't fan the flames, so to speak.  I still think she's crazy and I'm very unhappy with our relationship.  There's no intimacy and never will be unless she recognizes her problems and genuinely wants to change and goes for proper therapy to change.  She'll never do it on her own.

[takingandsending]

Startrekuser,

I am glad you got some rest! And you validated by repeating what she said. Good job in not adding to the conflict. That's all we really can do sometimes. I am still really concerned about you letting out some of the pressure and pain that you are feeling. Great that by not adding fuel to the fire, the flames dies down, but you were still burned and need to attend to your wounds. I wish I had the answers. Only you can assess what your needs are and how you can get them met even if it is just small steps to ease your unhappiness. I have been finding the SWOE workbook helpful in sorting out some of my feelings around my wife. Have you done any of the exercises in that book? It helped me to see the need for developing boundaries for my own self health. You are worth it.

[formflier]

  I repeated back the things (wacko exaggerations, distortions and falsifications) she said that I said and that worked out decently. 

I think I managed to handle the situation very well and didn't fan the flames, so to speak. 

Can you expand on what you repeated back?  Maybe a couple lines of "word for word" examples... .we may be able to help tweak a bit.




Solid work avoiding fanning the flames... .

Fanning flames results in getting burnt... .

[startrekuser]

She twists things to make it seem like I said something hurtful when there is no truth to that.  She does this often.  Sometimes she even makes things up.  Sometimes her distortions are so outrageous that I have to hold back from laughing or else she'll go into dysphoria.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

She twists things to make it seem like I said something hurtful when there is no truth to that.  She does this often.  Sometimes she even makes things up.  Sometimes her distortions are so outrageous that I have to hold back from laughing or else she'll go into dysphoria.

Is there no truth in it... .or a "kernel" of truth? 

Usually if you really focus on what they are saying you can find a kernel.  Many times that is what to focus the validation on... .or to make sure that you don't invalidate that small bit of truth...

[joshbjoshb]

She twists things to make it seem like I said something hurtful when there is no truth to that.  She does this often.  Sometimes she even makes things up.  Sometimes her distortions are so outrageous that I have to hold back from laughing or else she'll go into dysphoria.

When you feel nothing inside, you are sure you are not deserving, everything will sounds to you like an insult.

Think about it this way: you work for a big comapny and someone lets you know that there are good chances you will be laid off soon. So everything that anyone is telling you is a sign that it's coming, because you believe it's coming... .

For a BPD person, they don't deserved to be loved, so they can't believe any compliment and will find reasons to be insulted.

HOWEVER, if you are thinking that she is doing it out of bad intentions, know that it's wrong. She is really, really really sick.

And it's sad.