Can a pwBPD nurture us?

[Moselle]

I told my separated uBPD wife that I have decided that I want nurturing in my life. I want to be nurtured.

She explained to me that she was very nurturing in other relationships but that she has not nurtured me for 14 years, for a "plethora of reasons", all of them my fault.

My response was. "I don't give a toss if you have or haven't for 14 years, I'd like you to start now please?"

She also said "trust me as I unfold".

I'm not entirely sure what that means, but my question is. Can they nurture a spouse or not? I'm thinking not.

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[mywifecrazy]

My uBPDxw was NEVER nurturing towards me in out 18yr marriage. It was always me nurturing and taking care of her. She just didn't have it in her. I was always there for her whenever she was sick or down about something, etc. she was never mean or nasty and not really the raging type. She is the waif type and always was playing the victim role so I could take care of her. Heck she would even seem to be mad at me if I was ever sick. I would have to fend for myself.

I never felt appreciated... .God I don't miss that!

MWC... .

[itgirl]

My uBPDgf is nurturing.  When I am sick everything is done for me.  What I would like more is her nurturing our relationship.  There it seems like I am the only one.

[meerkat1]

I have been wondering the same thing. My pwBPD have made some strides forward recently. We still have a very long way to go.

I have to wonder, even in recovery will she be able to nurture? Can I finally relax and just be me again? Can I simply not feel good or be sick one day and not only NOT have a huge fight, but have her be comforting to me?

I am not sure if that part ever existed. After 20+ years of marriage I simply cannot recall. I know it has not existed in the last 10 years.

I guess some small part of me does not even want to put the effort in if this is not possible. The other part of me says it does not matter and I have to do this. I am tough enough and mature enough to nurture myself and I have to do it because I love my wife, need to see her get better for herself and our children.

[tayana]

Mine would be nurturing to a point.  If I was hurt she would make me do everything the doctor said, but if I was actually sick, with the flu or something, she still expected me to take care of everything and would actually be upset if I just wanted to lay around.  At one point when I had strep throat and a high fever, she was upset that our bank account was overdrawn and demanded I take care of it.  There had been a bank error, and I had to call and get it fixed.  We both had a stomach bug at the same time and she got upset that I was laying on the couch and not taking care of the kids.  She would be nurturing as long I went along with what she wanted, like accepting that I am the disordered one.  She would encourage me to get counseling and then get upset that I was talking about her to my T.  Or when I was really depressed, she basically badgered me and told me that I was just playing the victim and not really dealing with the real issues as I started to notice things about myself like I seek approval and not getting it makes me very upset.  I tried explaining this, but she didn't understand and told me I was full of BS.

[maxsterling]

She explained to me that she was very nurturing in other relationships (snip)

I'd bet big money that is a complete lie.  If she was very nurturing in other relationships, chances are she wouldn't have been single when she met you.  This seems to touch on something pwBPD tend to throw at us when they are upset - that all their previous partners were better than us and it's our poor relationship skills that lead them to treat us poorly.  They can't even begin to contemplate the irrationality of that statement alone!

Back to your original question - in their mind they may be nurturing.  But their definition of that word is different than ours.  In my r/s the extent of nurturing may include her getting me a glass of water when she is up or cuddling with me.  Note the latter is really about her, that she needs/wants the cuddling too.  And when I am sick or having a bad day, I will usually get an, "aww, what's wrong, anything I can do for you?" But that is about the extent of it.  In a year I haven't had a day where she goes out of her way to take care of me or do things for me in order to help me feel better.  No coming home from work to a surprise dinner.  No surprise gifts.  I've come to not expect much from her, and look for validation an nurturing elsewhere (or from myself).

[bruceli]

I told my separated uBPD wife that I have decided that I want nurturing in my life. I want to be nurtured.

She explained to me that she was very nurturing in other relationships but that she has not nurtured me for 14 years, for a "plethora of reasons", all of them my fault.

My response was. "I don't give a toss if you have or haven't for 14 years, I'd like you to start now please?"

She also said "trust me as I unfold".

I'm not entirely sure what that means, but my question is. Can they nurture a spouse or not? I'm thinking not.

IME, I would say that it depends on what phase you are in with them.  My pwPD is an excellent nurturer if I am in a white phase and not at all if I am painted black.

[bruceli]

She explained to me that she was very nurturing in other relationships (snip)

I'd bet big money that is a complete lie.  If she was very nurturing in other relationships, chances are she wouldn't have been single when she met you.  This seems to touch on something pwBPD tend to throw at us when they are upset - that all their previous partners were better than us and it's our poor relationship skills that lead them to treat us poorly.  They can't even begin to contemplate the irrationality of that statement alone!

Back to your original question - in their mind they may be nurturing.  But their definition of that word is different than ours.  In my r/s the extent of nurturing may include her getting me a glass of water when she is up or cuddling with me.  Note the latter is really about her, that she needs/wants the cuddling too.  And when I am sick or having a bad day, I will usually get an, "aww, what's wrong, anything I can do for you?" But that is about the extent of it.  In a year I haven't had a day where she goes out of her way to take care of me or do things for me in order to help me feel better.  No coming home from work to a surprise dinner.  No surprise gifts.  I've come to not expect much from her, and look for validation an nurturing elsewhere (or from myself).

Perhaps in the beginning of the relationship during the "honeymoon" phase to set the hook.

[maxsterling]

bruceli -

'Honeymoon" phase is an act.  True nurturing requires some selflessness, and even though the acts may seem nurturing at first, the selflessness was never there.  And that's still the way it is.  When she does things around the house, the reason is because she feels ashamed that she is doing nothing and she feels that if she doesn't I will leave her.  If she was motivated by selflessness, than I don't think she would be so challenged to initiate. 

[Moselle]

Thanks for your comments all.

Maxsterling, she didn't really have any serious relationships before me. A few boyfriends, but they were very shortlived. Perhaps they saw things I didn't - Oh dear :-)

Tayana, MWC, I don't think they can caretake someone who is sick.  I guess in their mind the person who happens to be their spouse is now 'faulty', and needs to get back to work as soon as possible. No empathy!

OK yesterday, I refused to let this go. I highlighted all the victim playing, blaming, evasion tactics, guilt (I just can't put up with it now that I can see it) and she started stressing. Today started with all the usual dysregulation fare. Criticising the children, blaming me for stuff and asking me for money. I think she is realising that her idea of nurturing and mine are very, very different.

So I let rip I'm afraid. I said I feel like a money donor, emotional support donor, sperm donor, and I ask for her to do some research into what it means to nurture a man. It freaking takes 4 hours and 27 emails to get it through to her that I'm actually not backing down on this one. It may be a marriage breaker folks. I just want to freaking have some nurturing in return for all the crap I put up with.

She committed to all sorts of other things. But nurturing... .ah... .no. Perhaps nurturing leads to intimacy, which I assume is the other big no no.

To her credit, she acknowledged my feelings. So CBT really does work LOL :-)

So she realised that I'm really angry, did some quick googling about nurturing a man's ego, and tells me "It actually wasn't that difficult to research"? and that "A woman should never try and change a man, that's how to nurture them". I chose to compliment her for doing something. But I'm fast realising that I will need to find my nurturing elsewhere, if I choose to stay married to her. She actually doesn't have a clue about nurturing herself, me, the children or old boyfriends :-)

It just feels like I have to give up on all the good stuff if I stay married to her: nurturing, intimacy, love, companionship, friendship. Jeez, what's left?

I really want this in my relationship. I really want intimacy, and nurturing is part of that.

This really is a cruel disease. What to do?

[Moselle]

bruceli -

'Honeymoon" phase is an act.  True nurturing requires some selflessness, and even though the acts may seem nurturing at first, the selflessness was never there.  And that's still the way it is.  When she does things around the house, the reason is because she feels ashamed that she is doing nothing and she feels that if she doesn't I will leave her.  If she was motivated by selflessness, than I don't think she would be so challenged to initiate. 

So what you're saying is the prognosis is not that good for nurturing any time soon? :-)

[vortex of confusion]

Back to your original question - in their mind they may be nurturing.  But their definition of that word is different than ours.  In my r/s the extent of nurturing may include her getting me a glass of water when she is up or cuddling with me.  Note the latter is really about her, that she needs/wants the cuddling too.  And when I am sick or having a bad day, I will usually get an, "aww, what's wrong, anything I can do for you?" But that is about the extent of it.  In a year I haven't had a day where she goes out of her way to take care of me or do things for me in order to help me feel better.  No coming home from work to a surprise dinner.  No surprise gifts.  I've come to not expect much from her, and look for validation an nurturing elsewhere (or from myself).

I hadn't thought about them having a very different definition of nurturing. When I am sick or incapacitated, my husband is great. He is a great little house boy. He will cook for me and bring me things. He seems to actually like it when I am totally dependent on him. But, I have to request everything. There is no independent thought on his part. As for surprises, there are none.

One of the things that really made all of this stand out for me was the fact that I have a relationship on the side. (I know. It isn't right but I am not willing to give it up yet.) The first time my friend took me to lunch, I ordered a salad. They brought it to me while I was in the restroom. He asked the waiter to bring extra dressing. My husband would never do anything like that for me. And my friend seems to intuitively know things. It is odd because I pay attention to my husband and I know what he likes and dislikes and I can anticipate a lot of things about him. My husband cannot do those things.

If I am at a weak point and feel like I am faltering, my husband remains oblivious. Before I strayed, I begged my husband for support, help, nurturing, anything. I told him that I felt like I was drowning because I was so exhausted taking care of everyone. I got nothing. He sat there like a dear in the headlights. Heck, I asked him to plan a date for our wedding anniversary and he couldn't even do that. We had to discuss it and it became this long drawn out ordeal. All I wanted was a social activity WITH my husband where I didn't have to plan everything. The lack of nurturing and even acknowledgement is exhausting.

My brother was in a similar relationship when he was younger so him and his fiance will invite me over from time to time and they will nurture me and baby me and it is really quite refreshing. It is silly stuff like listening to me and joking with me and not taking things personally. I get to let loose and be myself.

[Moselle]

I guess some small part of me does not even want to put the effort in if this is not possible. The other part of me says it does not matter and I have to do this. I am tough enough and mature enough to nurture myself and I have to do it because I love my wife, need to see her get better for herself and our children.

Meerkat, this sums it up perfectly for me too. But there is also a part of me that wants to be healthy now, find a healthy partner now, and be done with this nonsense.

[Moselle]

I hadn't thought about them having a very different definition of nurturing. When I am sick or incapacitated, my husband is great. He is a great little house boy. He will cook for me and bring me things. He seems to actually like it when I am totally dependent on him. But, I have to request everything. There is no independent thought on his part. As for surprises, there are none.

One of the things that really made all of this stand out for me was the fact that I have a relationship on the side. (I know. It isn't right but I am not willing to give it up yet.) The first time my friend took me to lunch, I ordered a salad. They brought it to me while I was in the restroom. He asked the waiter to bring extra dressing. My husband would never do anything like that for me. And my friend seems to intuitively know things. It is odd because I pay attention to my husband and I know what he likes and dislikes and I can anticipate a lot of things about him. My husband cannot do those things.

If I am at a weak point and feel like I am faltering, my husband remains oblivious. Before I strayed, I begged my husband for support, help, nurturing, anything. I told him that I felt like I was drowning because I was so exhausted taking care of everyone. I got nothing. He sat there like a dear in the headlights. Heck, I asked him to plan a date for our wedding anniversary and he couldn't even do that. We had to discuss it and it became this long drawn out ordeal. All I wanted was a social activity WITH my husband where I didn't have to plan everything. The lack of nurturing and even acknowledgement is exhausting.

My brother was in a similar relationship when he was younger so him and his fiance will invite me over from time to time and they will nurture me and baby me and it is really quite refreshing. It is silly stuff like listening to me and joking with me and not taking things personally. I get to let loose and be myself.

Vortex, I can fully understand why you would seek nurturing from someone else. I'm 7 months into a separation, and I'm very ready to be nurtured! I asked my wife to do so yesterday, and I think the answer was "no", but I'm not sure. Such is BPD.

I fail to plan dates too, but it's for a different reason . I don't enjoy dates with my wife. The conversation is about her, the emotional support is for her, the mood is seldom fun loving and quirky like me, it's more solemn and serious like her. I took her to a belly dancing restaurant once for a laugh, and I got up and started dancing - that's just me. She has brought up so many times how I offended her, hurt her feelings and made a disastrous night for her. I'd prefer to date a squirrel. It's a sheer wonder how we got married 14 years ago. I'm still trying to work that one out!

[vortex of confusion]

I fail to plan dates too, but it's for a different reason . I don't enjoy dates with my wife. The conversation is about her, the emotional support is for her, the mood is seldom fun loving and quirky like me, it's more solemn and serious like her. I took her to a belly dancing restaurant once for a laugh, and I got up and started dancing - that's just me. She has brought up so many times how I offended her, hurt her feelings and made a disastrous night for her. I'd prefer to date a squirrel. It's a sheer wonder how we got married 14 years ago. I'm still trying to work that one out!

I don't enjoy dates with my spouse either. It was my attempt to give him something simple and concrete that he could do. On one hand, he says he wants to work on our relationship and enjoys my company. He says all of the "right" things but when it comes to putting them into practice, he falls short. One of the things that I have read that has nothing to do with PD is to not expect your partner to read your mind. So, I have worked on trying to be more specific and give him concrete things to do.

I can't make him feel things and a lot of what I want is the intangible nurturing that most people seem to do without much thought. It is my boss giving me encouragement after a rough night of work. It is a coworker that offers to cover for me so I can take a break. It is that little bitty intangible stuff that is very nurturing but seems to completely stump those with BPD or BPD traits.

[workinprogress]

My uBPDxw was NEVER nurturing towards me in out 18yr marriage. It was always me nurturing and taking care of her. She just didn't have it in her. I was always there for her whenever she was sick or down about something, etc. she was never mean or nasty and not really the raging type. She is the waif type and always was playing the victim role so I could take care of her. Heck she would even seem to be mad at me if I was ever sick. I would have to fend for myself.

I never felt appreciated... .God I don't miss that!

MWC... .

My wife always seemed to get mad at me when I was sick, also!

She claimed that she never got sick, but she pops Ibuprofen all of the time for headaches and so forth.

[meerkat1]

Dates? Hmm.

We go on dates sometimes. Rarely been much fun. There is always a deep tension in the air, at least on my side. I have to worry about what I am going to say, how I say it, what did I not say that I should have... .

My wife does the same thing, too. She wants me to be in it, thoughtful, and plan something nice. I don't really plan the dates. How could I possibly. I would have to have every single little detail perfectly planned out the exact way she expects it be. Which would not be that big a problem, except she has no idea what she expects, so how could I?

[formflier]

OK yesterday, I refused to let this go. I highlighted all the victim playing, blaming, evasion tactics, guilt (I just can't put up with it now that I can see it) and she started stressing. Today started with all the usual dysregulation fare. Criticising the children, blaming me for stuff and asking me for money. I think she is realising that her idea of nurturing and mine are very, very different.

How does this compare with what you have read in the lessons?

[formflier]

I can't make him feel things 

Why would you want to do this?

[vortex of confusion]

I can't make him feel things 

Why would you want to do this?

I don't want to make anybody feel anything. I was simply reminding myself of that. If I am going to stay in the relationship, I need to be able to accept the fact that I will not be nurtured by my spouse. In the past, I have wanted him to act like he feels certain things or even understands them.

[workinprogress]

It's funny, tonight while my wife at her zumba class dancing with her friends (she hasn't danced with me in 12 years, even though I asked her many times) I fed the kids, the dogs, took out the garbage, and cleaned up the dog poop in the back yard.  Now, I have paperwork to do.

While I was taking out the garbage it occurred to me out of the blue that I haven't had any of my needs met nearly my whole life!

My wife has barely touched my body in the last 16 years.

She gets mad if I try to hug her, but she hugs everyone else she sees.

She never tells me that she loves me.  She said her dad never told her so she has trouble saying it.

She doesn't cook things I like.

She never wanted to go out on dates with me, friends had to always be around.

When I try to talk to her I have to watch everything I say.

I get no empathy at all.  When I told her I was tired from working 2 weeks straight she said, "everyone has to work."

When I complained that we didn't have sex she would say "things change, get over it."

If I make the slightest mistake she is mad forever about it.

I, too, feel like a sperm donor and a human checkbook.  As for an example of this, my wife and one of her idiot (sorry) BPD friends told my kids that they should marry for money!

I don't know how much longer I can do this.

[michel71]

I think the inability to nurture and thus be totally selfless because let's face it, nurturing is the total focus on the recipient, is at the heart of what it is to have BPD. So consumed with themselves, their needs, their wants. Anybody who wants anything emotional from them is simply too much and they feel "put out".

In my case, my BPDw is a nurse. Yeah, I know, go figure. She is great with her patients. Warm. Giving. Understanding. Honestly she is Florence Nightingale. With her daughter she is nurturing, perhaps more like babying and always trying to protect her feelings so she won't get upset or cry. They do have a weird, co-D relationship.

As for me, I work all day. She doesn't right now. Do I ever come home to a clean house or a cooked dinner? NO! Would she ever lift a effing finger? NO. No surprises for me. No little gifts. Just more requests. I am an ATM and a butler to her. Luckily I love to cook but, you know, it's nice to have something made for you when you come home after working all day.

Worse yet is when I don't feel good. Once I was having a colonoscopy. The night before she told me to get up extra early before I had to get ready to go to put the trashcans out. You can imagine how I felt. I hadn't eaten for 24 hours, had extreme abdominal discomfort, throwing up and she just couldn't do it herself. She wouldn't do it herself.

If I am ever tired, she accuses me of being lazy or "old". She is a night owl that likes to watch mindless TV and drink. I am an early to bed kinda person. I don't drink.  I have to get up early.

To me that is one of the worst things about my relationship... .the lack of nurturing. It is so EMPTY.

[waverider]

I can't make him feel things 

Why would you want to do this?

I don't want to make anybody feel anything. I was simply reminding myself of that. If I am going to stay in the relationship, I need to be able to accept the fact that I will not be nurtured by my spouse. In the past, I have wanted him to act like he feels certain things or even understands them.

This is an important thing which often forget and have trouble practicing. Only requesting what they are capable of providing. Some people will make an over the top fuss, some non and others will be on a par with our expectations.

I guess it comes down to open sharing, and allowing them to give what they can without pressure. Being sound in ourselves is the best defense for not feeling like we need to lean on them

Often they just get caught up or distracted by the issues going around in their head that often throw perspectives and priorities out of wack.

[mywifecrazy]

It's funny, tonight while my wife at her zumba class dancing with her friends (she hasn't danced with me in 12 years, even though I asked her many times) I fed the kids, the dogs, took out the garbage, and cleaned up the dog poop in the back yard.  Now, I have paperwork to do.

While I was taking out the garbage it occurred to me out of the blue that I haven't had any of my needs met nearly my whole life!

My wife has barely touched my body in the last 16 years.

She gets mad if I try to hug her, but she hugs everyone else she sees.

She never tells me that she loves me.  She said her dad never told her so she has trouble saying it.

She doesn't cook things I like.

She never wanted to go out on dates with me, friends had to always be around.

When I try to talk to her I have to watch everything I say.

I get no empathy at all.  When I told her I was tired from working 2 weeks straight she said, "everyone has to work."

When I complained that we didn't have sex she would say "things change, get over it."

If I make the slightest mistake she is mad forever about it.

I, too, feel like a sperm donor and a human checkbook.  As for an example of this, my wife and one of her idiot (sorry) BPD friends told my kids that they should marry for money!

I don't know how much longer I can do this.

My God I feel so,sorry for you brother! What you describe here is exactly what I experienced in my 18yr marriage before I caught my uBPDxw cheating and it all ended last year. Our whole relationship was all about her. I was never her lover, friend and soulmate. I was solely her provider and fatherly figure. Then in the end she devalued me and threw me into the trash which actually turned out to be a good thing for me. Sperm donor and checkbook, yeah that was me too. Didn't even get to donate much sperm the last several years either. She was getting it elsewhere.

Whatever you do from here on out I hope you find peace Workinprogress. I know what you're going through!

MWC... .

[Rapt Reader]

I told my separated uBPD wife that I have decided that I want nurturing in my life. I want to be nurtured.

She explained to me that she was very nurturing in other relationships but that she has not nurtured me for 14 years, for a "plethora of reasons", all of them my fault.

My response was. "I don't give a toss if you have or haven't for 14 years, I'd like you to start now please?"

She also said "trust me as I unfold".

I'm not entirely sure what that means, but my question is. Can they nurture a spouse or not? I'm thinking not.

Sure, they can nurture a spouse... .Whether any specific husband or wife (BPD or not) will nurture her or his spouse, is another question depending on the people involved.

My uBPD M-I-L was most of the time very nurturing of my now deceased F-I-L; she was most of the time very nurturing of her son--my Husband--who has major BPD traits from her flawed parenting, which prevented her from being nurturing to him (and also my F-I-L) when dysregulated. And the dysregulation happened a lot, unfortunately.

My uBPD D-I-L is almost all the time very nurturing of my non-BPD Son, except when dysregulated, and then all bets are off. But, my F-I-L & Husband never knew about BPD and how to deal with it, and my non-BPD Son doesn't know about BPD and how to deal with it, and none of them stood a chance at trying to navigate those relationships well enough to deal with dysregulations.

My Husband (the one with the inherited BPD traits), is very nurturing of me. In the past--before I found this site--he would periodically dysregulate, and when that happened, the nurturing was absent for the time it took for him to get regulated again. These days he isn't dysregulating; I've learned enough about myself by reading on this site so that I don't push his buttons anymore. I've stopped JADE-ing when he feels something that doesn't make sense to me, and I've stopped taking every dysregulation or unexplainable (to me) feeling of his personally. And things calm down or don't even escalate, and he's nurturing again quickly and lovingly.

I have BPD loved ones all around me, and each of them knows how to be nurturing, and is nurturing, and they are still BPD. That doesn't mean that everyone with BPD will be nurturing to their spouses, but it also means that yes, it is possible that they can nurture a spouse 

[joshbjoshb]

I think not everyone here agrees what nurturing means.

Some view it as preparing food, taking care of the physical element of our needs. Well, I am sure many BPD people do that. My wife also - but only kind of. It's up to her mood, almost never really doing it for me but rather what SHE wants to do.

As for more of a support, love and TLC... .it's hard for me to imagine which BPD is even capable of doing it.

When I tell my wife about my day - good or bad - she almost always stops me mid-sentence because she had to say something, or she got a whatsapp message... .I feel I talk to the wall then.

[Moselle]

OK yesterday, I refused to let this go. I highlighted all the victim playing, blaming, evasion tactics, guilt (I just can't put up with it now that I can see it) and she started stressing. Today started with all the usual dysregulation fare. Criticising the children, blaming me for stuff and asking me for money. I think she is realising that her idea of nurturing and mine are very, very different.

How does this compare with what you have read in the lessons?

Not very well I'm afraid, thanks for the reminder! you seem to post the most inconvenient of questions  

I suppose it's me reverting to the persecutor role and doesn't really do any good in terms of validating her. So its me acting out as a co-dependent, rather than an assertive, compassionate husband which I want to be. It certainly doesn't follow the SET guidelines. It's also focussing on her behaviours, and issues which I cannot change, instead of focussing on what I can change - me.

But I did stick up for myself, and communicate my desires in words. I have decided what I want, and am at least aware of victimisation, blaming and FOG tactics. Before I came to BPDfam I would have done whatever was necessary to appease her, so I guess it's also me experimenting, testing how to speak my mind, and not fear the anger, crying, FOG that might come in return.

Is there anything in particular which you think I might have done better?

BTW, I phoned her this morning and asked if she could spare some nurturing?

She did well for about 2 minutes and she really made me feel loved!, so she is making an effort which I reinforced. It then became a positive discussion around changes and she said that nurturing was a muscle that she needed to develop. It was followed by 15 minutes of what she wants and needs, but I got my 2 minutes of nurturing which is more than I've had before.

She then sent me another sms asking for money, but thanked me for the nice chat.

I asked her a very important question too. I asked why the changes? why the efforts to behave differently? and she said, that she had accepted life alone or away from me, and needed to make changes for herself. This is about her becoming healthy. I liked her answer!

[formflier]

I suppose it's me reverting 

Solid answers... .

What's the difference in supposing... .and choosing?

Which gives you more power?

[formflier]

She did well for about 2 minutes and she really made me feel loved!, so she is making an effort which I reinforced. 

How did you reinforce this?

So... since it is obvious (correct me if I am wrong... .) that she is taking some steps in the right direction... .the direction that you want... .how are you going to reciprocate... .to honor her choices?

[Moselle]

I think not everyone here agrees what nurturing means.

joshbjoshb This hits the nail squarely on the head!

Nurturing is different for each of us, and may even vary within each person depending on the context. What is nurturing one day, might feel condescending the next day. Or nurturing in front of friends might be embarrassing for one, and the height of validation for another.

This intuitive, context specific skill set, allows most of us to read between the lines in terms of interpersonal relationships. It is a healthy dance.

We can come away from an interaction with anybody, and know very clearly whether we have been nurtured or not, but not really know what was said or done that made us feel that way. Much of it is subconscious, and includes body language, so it is indeed not surprising that we would have a different view of it.

In a pwBPD, I think they can change behaviour and be more nurturing, but it will be more mechanical. The subtleties and intuition of it must be very difficult to learn.