More questions than answers

[vortex of confusion]

I am reading through different threads as I ponder things that I have read in the lessons. One of the things that comes up for me is how to acknowledge things without letting those things get in the way.

For example, there have been so many little things in the relationship that have been troublesome from the very beginning. A lot of them I attributed to learning to live with a husband. A lot of them I attributed to me being inexperienced. I had never been married before. So many of the things that I have read here are very validating to me because it makes me feel a lot less crazy. But, I keep asking myself if I am accidentally sabotaging the relationship by focusing on all of the negative things that my spouse does. There are a lot of good things about him but there are also a lot of negative things about him.

Also, I read a thread where somebody was tracking all of the traits of a spouse in a 24 hour period. As I read the traits, I looked at myself. I can see where, at one point, I would go through these traits quite frequently. Was I responding to my external environment or is it BPD? How common is it for people to become so enmeshed that it is almost impossible to tell who is BPD and who isn't?

1)   Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

I have done all sorts of things in an attempt to keep my husband happy. Was it because I was afraid of being abandoned by him or was it because he had become so clingy? At one point, I had become clingy with a few of my friends because I had lost all perspective as to what a normal relationship looked like.

My husband does this a lot with his frequent calls and emails. Sometimes I feel like he follows me around like a puppy dog.

2)   A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between  extremes of idealization and devaluation.

I will sometimes have a bad day and get upset and will let off steam and rant and rave about somebody and it will come across as painting them black when the reality is that I am letting off steam. How does one distinguish between regular venting and irritation and painting one black? I think I know because my mother had a tendency to do it. Once she has painted somebody black, there is no going back.

I worry that I have done this with my husband. Idealizing him was one of the ways to cope with things that were so subtle yet still had a very strong impact on me. He says he never does any of the things that he does intentionally. He just doesn't think. I try to maintain a balance where I am able to continue to see his good and bad traits.

3)  Identity disturbance:  markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

I am definitely struggling with my sense of self. As I am trying to detach and become unenmeshed, I get rather anxious. What happens if I assert myself and set my boundaries and decide that there is no way that I can suck things up and make them work. Can I assert myself as an individual and still maintain my commitment to stay in the relationship.

4)   Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).

I think the closest thing to this are smoking and eating.

5)   Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.

I don't do this but my husband will still occasionally make off hand remarks about knowing how to solve all of the problems. The implication is that he can just off himself and everything will be better. He used to do it quite frequently but has almost stopped it sense going on anti-depressants.

I will admit to occasionally having negative thoughts and feeling trapped like there is no way out of this.

6)   Affective [mood] instability.

Am I unstable or am I reacting to his instability? He has been in a funk for the last two weeks with occasional periods of seeming to be better. How do people live with this day in and day out without it having an impact on their moods? I can be super happy and in a good mood and want to share with him only to have him reject me. That puts me in a bad or confused mood. Sometimes, I am able to find something positive and bounce back but other times not so much.

7)   Chronic feelings of emptiness.

He tells me quite frequently that he feels empty.

I don't know if I feel empty or just plain hopeless. I have all sorts of emotions and thoughts and feelings but have no real outlet. Sometimes, it is easier to claim emptiness or some kind of neutral emotion than it is to try to have a real conversation.

8)   Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).

No real physical fights but we both tend to get angry. I feel like my anger is usually justified but his is not. That does not sound fair at all. The most recent example was when I was putting groceries away and said something. I don't remember what I said but he got mad and slammed some stuff around. He will sometimes get angry with the kids over really stupid stuff. I have always excused it as he is just grumpy and his mother has confirmed that and continues to tell me, "That is just who he is." It usually takes a lot for me to get angry. I try really hard to avoid getting angry because I do have a tendency to blow up.

9)   Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

He will sometimes get very paranoid and will go over and over and over the same things. When I mentioned that I might go to a counselor, he became paranoid.

I will sometimes get paranoid but I think I have traced a lot of it back to his negative comments. Over the years, I will suggest doing something fun and the first thing out of his mouth are the reasons that it won't succeed. We can talk about going to the mall and he will shoot it down by saying it is too crowded. I feel like he has programmed me to automatically assume the worst. That is not who I am. I have always been a bit of a rebel and have always made my own way so it is very discomforting for me to feel paranoid or have these other feelings.

I guess I am writing this all out just to get it out of my head. Writing helps and having any kind of feedback might helping to answer some of my own questions. Untangling all of this is a lot of work.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

Vortex,

Very good self insight.  Great questions.

My opinion is that "nons" have an easier time examining themselves and getting to the point where they realize that they have the power to change themselves.


I think pwBPD can get there as well... they just have a much harder time of it because of their illness.

Thoughts?

[waverider]

Everyone absorbs and reflects/reacts to their environment. Our benchmarks shift.

Not having a disorder means that we can sort through all these dysfunctions identify and attribute them, once we have outside resources onto which we can anchor healthier benchmarks.

To use a problem solving and project manager term, we can organize things in a way to determine a critical path towards a result. A disordered person struggles to identify this critical path and so jumps from one to the next in a disorganised way getting nowhere fast until they give up on ever getting anywhere.

In short you can't address everything but you can be informed enough to work out what is worth tackling for an effective improvement.

It always comes as a shock that tackling our problems first is the most effective means to a better end.

[vortex of confusion]

My opinion is that "nons" have an easier time examining themselves and getting to the point where they realize that they have the power to change themselves.

I agree with this. One of the things that I struggle with is the fact that I don't feel like my husband is truly examining himself. I think he is still relying on me to do the examination for him. I have been trying not to share my observations with him because I have noticed that he has a tendency to focus on the things that I mention without considering other options and thinking for himself. The easiest way to explain it is to give an example.

After I discovered this forum, I mentioned that he needed to consider things beyond his sex addiction. I tried to bring up his anxiety and paranoia and little things like that. I tried to do it in a way that validated his struggles. I tried to present it as, "I know how hard you are struggling with all of this. Have you considered that maybe there is more going on than just the sex addiction?"

Somebody on the forum mentioned finding a CSAT (certified sex addiction therapist) so I asked him about that. Now, he is telling me that he doesn't want a therapist that specializes in sex addiction because he has all of these other issues to deal with.

Up until I mentioned that I was going to look into therapy, he was pretty ambivalent about going to counseling and was thinking about stopping all together. When I said I was looking into it, he suddenly got interested in it and has been talking about going back to counseling or finding a new one.

In looking at the patterns between us, I am seeing that I am inadvertently controlling him even though that is the last thing that I want to do. It is confusing for me to try to make sense out of things because he seems to want to mirror everything that I do and everything that I think. So, I tend to clam up. When I do share or make observations about him or our relationship, then it seems that he takes that on as his own. If I am mad at someone and vent a bit, then he will go along with it and take on the same feelings. Sure, people vent to each other but the act of me venting shouldn't change how HE feels about a person. It is so subtle that it took me years to figure out what the heck was going on. I had never really heard of mirroring until reading through stuff on this site.

When he does do things on his own or gets passionate about stuff, it is usually stuff that I am not comfortable with. For example, he couldn't plan a date for our anniversary but the following week he got all excited and was going on and on about planning to meet a female friend of his that he met online. He didn't seem to understand why I was bothered by that. He ended up not meeting his friend. Part of me felt bad about it but another part of me was just plain confused. A lot of times, I feel confused more than anything because I will go along with things with him because I don't want to send mixed signals. I feel like I do because I can sit and think about the times that I have encouraged him to think for himself and do things on his own only to turn around and ask him what the heck he is doing. For me, the disconnect is the fact that he is doing things that, to me, are clearly not normal. Now, the day he took care of an accident that he had in the car, I validated and praised and made a big to do out of it because I was really proud of him. I feel like I go out of my way to NOT tell him no because it is so rare for him to take any initiative.

[vortex of confusion]

To use a problem solving and project manager term, we can organize things in a way to determine a critical path towards a result. A disordered person struggles to identify this critical path and so jumps from one to the next in a disorganised way getting nowhere fast until they give up on ever getting anywhere.

In short you can't address everything but you can be informed enough to work out what is worth tackling for an effective improvement.

I think that is where I am having difficulty. I have identified the path that I need to take but am having difficulties because I feel like he is trying to latch on to my path and make it his own. I feel like he wants somebody to tell him what to do and how to do it without making the personal investment needed. For example, he was upset that his sponsor wasn't available to him. Well, he hadn't really put forth much effort into communicating with the sponsor. He wasn't upset about his sponsor until I started asking him how often he talks to his sponsor. I was trying to get a sense of where he is at with things. A lot of times, I feel like he is coasting along and is content to do nothing but when I ask him about it he seems to deflect.

It always comes as a shock that tackling our problems first is the most effective means to a better end.

So true!

[waverider]

In looking at the patterns between us, I am seeing that I am inadvertently controlling him even though that is the last thing that I want to do. It is confusing for me to try to make sense out of things because he seems to want to mirror everything that I do and everything that I think. So, I tend to clam up. When I do share or make observations about him or our relationship, then it seems that he takes that on as his own. If I am mad at someone and vent a bit, then he will go along with it and take on the same feelings. Sure, people vent to each other but the act of me venting shouldn't change how HE feels about a person. It is so subtle that it took me years to figure out what the heck was going on. I had never really heard of mirroring until reading through stuff on this site.

I experience this to, almost like passing the responsibility to organize their chaos onto you. While this is fine to a certain extend, if it creates progress, you have to be careful to stay the part of supporter rather than rescuer. If they are not motivated to put their foot forward then they are unlikely to stay the course. Learning to take responsibility is part of the recovery, we can inadvertently disable this ability if we allow ourselves to always set the pace.

It is hard to judge that line, but the first step is to realize there is one.

[waverider]

To use a problem solving and project manager term, we can organize things in a way to determine a critical path towards a result. A disordered person struggles to identify this critical path and so jumps from one to the next in a disorganised way getting nowhere fast until they give up on ever getting anywhere.

In short you can't address everything but you can be informed enough to work out what is worth tackling for an effective improvement.

I think that is where I am having difficulty. I have identified the path that I need to take but am having difficulties because I feel like he is trying to latch on to my path and make it his own. I feel like he wants somebody to tell him what to do and how to do it without making the personal investment needed. For example, he was upset that his sponsor wasn't available to him. Well, he hadn't really put forth much effort into communicating with the sponsor. He wasn't upset about his sponsor until I started asking him how often he talks to his sponsor. I was trying to get a sense of where he is at with things. A lot of times, I feel like he is coasting along and is content to do nothing but when I ask him about it he seems to deflect.

It always comes as a shock that tackling our problems first is the most effective means to a better end.

So true!

yep that is why its best concentrating on ourselves first. It's less frustrating if nothing else. They will be ready when they are ready. If you push they will make excuses, and then start believing their own excuses, and get stuck there

The better we get ourselves the better example we set to motivate them

[vortex of confusion]

I experience this to, almost like passing the responsibility to organize their chaos onto you. While this is fine to a certain extend, if it creates progress, you have to be careful to stay the part of supporter rather than rescuer. If they are not motivated to put their foot forward then they are unlikely to stay the course. Learning to take responsibility is part of the recovery, we can inadvertently disable this ability if we allow ourselves to always set the pace.

It is hard to judge that line, but the first step is to realize there is one.

Oh man, this is one of the toughest things for me. I have a tendency to rescue. There have been so many times when he will moan and groan about things and will go on and on and on. I start out supporting and listening but at some point I get sick and tired of hearing about the same things over and over and over again. So, I do something about it. I have lots of examples from our relationship when I stepped in and rescued him or took over.

I feel like I have to find a way to become immune to the harping and nagging and obsessing in order to stop rescuing him. Most of the time, I feel like he is content to simply talk and complain and doesn't really want things to change because that would require too much work on his part.

I have noticed that he tends to do the bare minimum to get by. Rather than him rising up to meet me, I feel like I have become lazy as well. I am also trying to figure out how to get remotivated and reinvigorated. I used to always have a zest for life. I tend to be a pretty positive and upbeat person that likes adventure but I haven't felt like that in years. I want that back.

[waverider]

I have noticed that he tends to do the bare minimum to get by. Rather than him rising up to meet me, I feel like I have become lazy as well. I am also trying to figure out how to get remotivated and reinvigorated. I used to always have a zest for life. I tend to be a pretty positive and upbeat person that likes adventure but I haven't felt like that in years. I want that back.

This is something I have yet to find an answer for, I can handle not pushing her harder than she is willing to go, as that results in chaos, stubborness and conflict. I dont mind just getting on with stuff, but at time the motivation flags when you are out there on your own with no one to pace yourself with.

This is where I call fun "me" things as must dos, and dont regret neglecting 'chores" in order to do them. As long as I am doing something it feels like time well spent.

"Why do I seem to have to do everything myself" is a completely negative mindset to allow yourself to get into, as you know the answer and you cant change it in the short term. So make everything less of a chore, then its easier to accept (and fool yourself a little  )

[vortex of confusion]

I am getting a lot better about getting out and doing fun stuff with or without him and the kids. It has taken quite a while to get things to a point where I could even leave the house. He has made huge improvements in his relationship with the kids and that has taken a big load off my mind.

It still does very little for my motivation. There are nights when I get off work and stop by the store and am a walking zombie.

Every now and then, I do get in the "Why do I have to do everything mindset" but try to pull myself out of it by seeing the things that I do as a choice and as an act of service. It isn't always easy but I try. I tend to avoid even using the word chore because it carries such a negative connotation. Yes, perhaps a little bit of fooling myself from time to time goes a long way and is the source of some of my own problematic behavior. I never set out to do a lot of what I do long term. It started out as me carrying the load because my husband had extenuating circumstances. I would tell myself, "I am going to pick up the slack until he gets his stuff taken care of." The only problem is that something else would come up. After 14 or 15 years of fooling myself into thinking that things would change when x or y or z happened, I became completely and utterly burned out.

[waverider]

I am getting a lot better about getting out and doing fun stuff with or without him and the kids. It has taken quite a while to get things to a point where I could even leave the house. He has made huge improvements in his relationship with the kids and that has taken a big load off my mind.

It still does very little for my motivation. There are nights when I get off work and stop by the store and am a walking zombie.

Every now and then, I do get in the "Why do I have to do everything mindset" but try to pull myself out of it by seeing the things that I do as a choice and as an act of service. It isn't always easy but I try. I tend to avoid even using the word chore because it carries such a negative connotation. Yes, perhaps a little bit of fooling myself from time to time goes a long way and is the source of some of my own problematic behavior. I never set out to do a lot of what I do long term. It started out as me carrying the load because my husband had extenuating circumstances. I would tell myself, "I am going to pick up the slack until he gets his stuff taken care of." The only problem is that something else would come up. After 14 or 15 years of fooling myself into thinking that things would change when x or y or z happened, I became completely and utterly burned out.

Its like traversing a mountain range and convincing yourself that the mountain in front of you is the last one, only to find it isn't there is always another one. You have to stop crossing the peaks trying to go in a straight line, and find a more flexible easier level path around them. Learning about BPD is like being given a contour map to plan your journey better

[vortex of confusion]

Its like traversing a mountain range and convincing yourself that the mountain in front of you is the last one, only to find it isn't there is always another one. You have to stop crossing the peaks trying to go in a straight line, and find a more flexible easier level path around them. Learning about BPD is like being given a contour map to plan your journey better

Ooo, that is a very good analogy. In my line of work, having the right search terms is paramount. Find the right word or right label can mean the difference between complete ignorance or some kind of information.

Finding this discussion board has been a Godsend because it is the first place where I have seen other people struggle with some of the same things that I have been struggling with for years. I have used all sorts of search terms and looked up all sorts of different things over the years only to walk away feeling stumped and/or crazy.

It wasn't that I was trying to fix my husband. It was that I knew something wasn't normal or right but couldn't quite put my finger on what it was. I came from a very dysfunctional family so I always assumed that I was the problem. My husband came from a very religious home. Went to private schools his whole life. His parents volunteered at the church. Heck, he was even an Eagle Scout and had been a monk at one point in his life. When I looked at my life story and his life story, I figured I HAD to be the problem. There was never any doubt in my mind that I was the problem.