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Author Topic: Family Outings  (Read 456 times)
vortex of confusion
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« on: September 07, 2014, 09:38:15 AM »

Yesterday, we went to a convention as a family. I have spent a lot of time trying to find outings that we can do as a family since my husband and kids think that everything has to be done as an entire family.

It was very stressful. Sure, taking 4 kids out is going to have hiccups. However, in light of things that I have read here, I was able to identify a few dynamics. I was also able to keep my cool better and we did have fun.

Here are some things that I observed but wasn't really sure exactly how to deal with:

We were at a convention and it was supposed to be fun and interesting. My husband tends to stress out the kids because he will nitpick. It is subtle stuff like, ":)on't get too far ahead. You are in my way. Don't stop in front of me. "

My oldest daughter complained that dad was being a jerk and that she felt like she couldn't do anything right. His constant correction makes it difficult for the kids to enjoy things because they are trying to find that right balance between staying close but not too close and being far but not too far. When he was walking with us, the kids clung to me and made it difficult for me to breath. I notice they cling to me because I tend to have more realistic expectations.

I tried to suggest that my husband go off by himself because he wanted to look at things we did't want to look at. It was a hobby convention and it is a hobby of his, not ours. We found some of the stuff fascinating but we didn't really care to see some of the things that he liked. He tried to insist on us all staying together. He finally did wonder off by himself and the girls and I were able to sit and watch the things that fascinated us. Once he wandered off, the girls and I were able to relax and be silly.

One of my daughter's made the comment, "People wonder why we cling to you so much. We get in trouble from dad if we don't." She had wondered a little bit ahead of us at the park and was standing on the railing by a pond. I could see her and she could see us. He yelled at her to get back with the family. We were at a park and he would yell at them if they got too far ahead or too far behind or were too fast or too slow. And that leaves me and the kids a bit frustrated and confused. My kids are not really allowed to be kids.

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joshbjoshb
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2014, 10:25:23 AM »

Sorry to hear that you didn't fully enjoy... .I am usually also finding it very difficult to enjoy any trip with my BPDw. But the trips is the smallest problem, isn't it? How about his parenting at home... .I am going to guess it's much worse.

To me trips and outing is one thing, but when my kids get almost zero emotional support at home from she speaks to them the same way her mother spoke to her - which I suspect caused her to get BPD - a lot of rejection words, not really emotionally available etc.

So my answer to it is that I must stay around for their own benefit.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2014, 10:33:49 AM »

Sorry to hear that you didn't fully enjoy... .I am usually also finding it very difficult to enjoy any trip with my BPDw. But the trips is the smallest problem, isn't it? How about his parenting at home... .I am going to guess it's much worse.

The parenting at home has improved dramatically but there is still a long way to go. At home, he doesn't really connect with the kids. They can ask him to get stuff for them and he will but there is very little actual connection. Our oldest has expressed frustration at his inability to hang out with her or talk to her. They all love gaming but he is set on focusing on his games and has little or no interest in getting involved in the kids' games. I have also noticed that there are a lot of things at home that he simply ignores, which is better than the constant nitpicking that he used to do at home too.

Excerpt
To me trips and outing is one thing, but when my kids get almost zero emotional support at home from she speaks to them the same way her mother spoke to her - which I suspect caused her to get BPD - a lot of rejection words, not really emotionally available etc.

There is definitely a lack of emotional availability with the kids.

Excerpt
So my answer to it is that I must stay around for their own benefit.

Same here. I have seriously considered leaving but then I realize that he would likely have visitation and the kids would have to be with him for extended periods of time without me around to help buffer things. The kids love their dad but they wish he was more of a dad.

At the park, there were a bunch of dads out on the playground with the kids. I was the only middle aged mom playing in the water with all of the kids while he sat on the sidelines complaining about the heat and that he didn't have a hat. Instead of sitting in a shady area near us, it seemed that he would passive aggressively go sit in a shaded area that was farther away. At one point, I told him, "Come sit by us on the bench, there is shade right there."
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waverider
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2014, 06:35:46 AM »

Have you asked him what he feels when the kids wander too far (in his eyes).?

To deal with this you need to find out what the trigger and emotion behind all this is.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2014, 07:06:46 AM »

Have you asked him what he feels when the kids wander too far (in his eyes).?

No, I haven't asked. There are times when it is obvious that he is afraid that the kids will get lost. We were in a crowded place so it made sense to a degree but at the same time it is very confusing when he wants them close but then gets mad when they are too close.

Excerpt
To deal with this you need to find out what the trigger and emotion behind all this is.

Part of it is fear of losing a child. I get that because I worry about that too. However, another part of it seems like a bit of a show. At home, he seems very disinterested in the kids. There are days when it seems that he only interacts with them if they ask him for stuff OR if he is correcting them. So, when we go out, he is putting on a show and trying to act like a dad. In all honesty, the kids seem to stress him out and he seems to be afraid of the kids making him look bad or something. I don't know how many times I have had to reassure him and tell him that things are okay.

Going out is a trigger, which is why we usually don't go out much. Crowds but him. Misbehaving (I see it as normal) kids bug him. People stopping in front of him bugs him. People not staying with him bugs him. People not wanting to listen to him drone on bugs him. The kids wanting something is a trigger. It seems like everything triggers his anxiety when we are out and about. For a while, I would be just as anxious as him because I was walking on eggshells trying to get the kids to act certain ways and trying to anticipate every little thing. Now that I have stopped that, I am trying to figure out how to have family outings that are more fun. We did have fun while we were out but it was still very stressful.

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meerkat1
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2014, 07:09:23 AM »

I really liked your observations. Made me think a little bit about when we go out as a family, too.

One, I just realized I am doing a lot of the things your BPD husband is doing. Ugh. This is to avoid the triggers of my BPD wife. In other words, I am the one yelling at the kids to stop this, stop that, do this, do that all to try to keep a trigger from causing my wife to explode. It is putting distance between the kids and I.

Thanks for that observation. I will have to figure out a way to stop myself. Also, will have to find other ways to deal with pwBPD on outings, trips, and the like.

I also notice that we have the same dynamic. Get the pwBPD to go off by herself, then the rest of us can relax and actually have fun.

It is really sad that persons with BPD push people away so hard, but then can't realize that they are causing their own loneliness.
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waverider
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2014, 07:19:56 AM »

Does he fear not being in control. Withdrawing approval in the home is a very "Victorian" way of demanding respect. When outside the house physical separation threatens that control as the further away they are the more they are distracted by other things.

You can't demonstrate your control/power unless someone is near enough to be affected by your dismissal.

"Come here so that you can see that i am ignoring you because I am important"
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2014, 07:51:21 AM »

Does he fear not being in control. Withdrawing approval in the home is a very "Victorian" way of demanding respect. When outside the house physical separation threatens that control as the further away they are the more they are distracted by other things.

You can't demonstrate your control/power unless someone is near enough to be affected by your dismissal.

"Come here so that you can see that i am ignoring you because I am important"

I hadn't really thought about it from that angle before. I do think it is about control. My husband doesn't do well with anything that isn't predictable. Kids, by their very nature, are not predictable.

The point about physical separation threatening control is something to pay attention to more closely. I think that really might be at the root of things. It does sometimes feel like all attention needs to be on him and what he wants. As soon as we got to the convention, the youngest two wanted food despite the fact that we had tried to do everything we could to get them to eat beforehand. It is a pretty typical kid behavior. He got stressed out about it while I got busy looking for something that the kids could eat that was reasonably priced that they would actually eat. While we were sitting and letting them eat, he got all fidgety. I suggested that he go off by himself but he didn't want to do that. So many times it is his overall demeanor that is problematic. He won't say anything but he is clearly pensive, fidgety, in a hurry, and just plain snappy. If anybody mentions anything because we can clearly see that he is bothered, he will get defensive and mad and deny anything and everything.
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Perez

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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2014, 07:53:44 AM »

Thanks for the post on family outings.  We experienced something similar on our family vacation.  My uBPDw would lag behind the rest of the family talking to strangers and taking picture after picture while myself and the kids waited.  After a couple of days of this, we began to leave her behind and wait for her further along the trail.  It was so much more pleasant for everyone as I was able to enjoy the hikes talking with the kids, without constant griping and nitpicking or dealing with restless kids.  I would stop periodically but she would just ignore and continue her behavior.

Of course, a little later as my wife was driving the car she pulled over and let everyone know how hurt she was that was being ignored.  Calmly told her that if she refused to follow the rest of the family, we would happily wait for her , but would go at the rest of the family's pace.  This led unfortunately to a full fledged rage episode, her against everyone else.  Finally stopped only when my nine year old started spilling tears.

Ignored that rage episode and continued with our "boundary".  She was bitter but overall our family outing was much more pleasant for myself and our kids.

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