BPD SO's in recovery

[ziniztar]

As most of you know my dBPDbf is in recovery. We split up last weekend for the time being, to give each other some space. And oh yes, because he cheated.

Who has a BPD SO in recovery as well? How do you handle their progress, their setbacks? What kind of treatment are they getting?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[maxsterling]

Mine has been in "recovery" since she was 16.  That's 22 years of various therapies, medications, and hospitalizations.  I've now known her a little over a year and a half.  So what is she doing now?  EMDR therapy, group trauma therapy, two medications, and a 12-step program.  Admittedly, she has fallen out with the 12-step program in recent weeks.

So what do I do?  I try to not have any expectations, try not to put any pressure, and let her mental health be her business.  That means no ultimatums, no "I think you should do this... .", nothing that she can throw back at me as an accusation of me controlling her.  I do my best to have patience, and try to utilize my free time wisely so that I have more energy for her in the evenings and on weekends.  I try to avoid having 'milestones" as in "I need to see this from her by a certain date."  The reality here is that if I put any expectations on her, she is guaranteed not to meet those expectations and that means I might as well discontinue the relationship.  The real keys here are patience, learning to deal with our own issues, and living in today, not the past or the future.

[MissyM]

My dBPDh is in recovery, he is working sex addiction recovery but also has had drug addiction and work addiction problems.  Our arrangement is a little different than what the previous poster replied.  My dBPDh has a recovery plan, that I was given and asked for my input.  I am aware of what his recovery work is, I do not try to manage it but being secretive about it is considered unhealthy behavior in sex addiction recovery.  I do my own codependency recovery work, go to step study, therapy and group therapy.  He has a similar schedule and talks to his sponsor daily.  If you have split up for a while, I would take the time to go to alanon and get into therapy.  Support in getting through this is really beneficial.

[Moselle]

3 Days ago my wife went from uBPDw to dBPD/NPDw.

She opened up for the first time that she has both BPD and NPD, and mentioned that she has been doing CBT. So I'm very interested in people's responses in this thread.

I sent her a list of From To's, without putting a time frame or who needs to do the work.

eg From: "Conflict", To: "Problem solving. If there’s a problem, we’ll solve it amicably."

From: "Victim mentality", To: "Acceptance, Self Responsibility"

She said she is excited to work on this with me, and on her own accord, she has offered to read the book "Conflict couples" which uses DBT (Dialectic Behaviour Therapy), and lead us through the excercises.

I'm still pinching myself because she has been raging for 6 months (we've been separated for 7 months), and wondering if this is real, or mirrored. How can I tell? At the moment I'm just going with it and trying to build positive momentum with her.

[ziniztar]

Hmmm... so I hear:

- different treatment schedules, there is no one way ... .I think it depends on the adapted coping mechanisms.

- keep expectations low

- expressing a road to a healthier relationship

MissyM, I did get into therapy a few weeks ago. It helps a lot, and I have at least 10 more sessions before I have to start paying for them... so there is room, and I already learnt so much after 4. How are you doing yourself?

Moselle, when did your wife get the diagnosis? Is she diagnosed last week or has she known for a long time and did she only recently share that knowledge with you?

I know my dBPDbf was very excited about treatment for a long time, as the idealization phase happens there as well. He's discussing quitting treatment now (I know he probably will not end it, as he's been through this cycle before). He's not that happy about it anymore as he feels he's stuck and it's not working for him. That initiates a lot of fear in me because I know I wouldn't want to stay with him if he quit... and that would mean me ending the r/s. Well, now it doesn't matter at all anymore.

What I like is to look at him as a good friend. Keep a safe distance, when it comes to what you expect from him/her. If a friend would have a set back you wouldn't panic either. It helps me to think this way.

[Moselle]

Moselle, when did your wife get the diagnosis? Is she diagnosed last week or has she known for a long time and did she only recently share that knowledge with you?

It's hard to tell. She told me in January that she thought she was BPD (that was when I googled and found bpdfamily for the first time). But then we separated and she raged for along time - 6 months. She told me she only went to therapy to please me and I promptly stopped paying for it. When I raised BPD again, she screamed "stop diagnosing me".

A few months later she told me she was back in therapy, and I know I'm not paying for it, so I didn't ask too many questions. Then she asked me to contact her therapist to give my side of the story, which I've not done. I'm in a stage where her stuff is her stuff and I don't really want to get involved.

Then she apologised for some stuff the other night, and admitted being diagnosed with BP and NP by her psychiatrist. I stuck it in an email and sent it off to her LOL, saying "thanks for sharing that with me".

Today she was back to "stop diagnosing me", but admitted she has both.

I'm trying to be quite aloof with it. I've noticed if I don't show too much interest she actually does better. I guess because she feels in control of it. So I said "I don't give a hoot if you have BP, NP or the plague, I just want to know what it means for you and what it means for me and the children. Can you tell me?". I'm trying to get her to understand the implications of the disease for me and others. So it's more about behaviours than a label, but she blew me off.

I love that quote in one of your other posts "We can only have hope in the things we can change about ourselves, the rest is wishful thinking". I'm trying to apply that here and not hope for too much, but get really busy with my own stuff. Particularly co-dep/caretaking

[MissyM]

I  know my dBPDbf was very excited about treatment for a long time, as the idealization phase happens there as well. He's discussing quitting treatment now (I know he probably will not end it, as he's been through this cycle before). He's not that happy about it anymore as he feels he's stuck and it's not working for him. That initiates a lot of fear in me because I know I wouldn't want to stay with him if he quit... and that would mean me ending the r/s. Well, now it doesn't matter at all anymore.

We actually discussed this in marital DBT today.  Many BPDs have no stress tolerance and hit the road when it gets to the hard work. This is also true in addiction, when people get to the 4th step they run.  All I can do is be supportive while my dBPDh works through all of this.  We talked about some ways that I could support him, he couldn't come up with any himself and the therapist had to recommend some things and let him pick.  I really can't say enough how having a DBT marital therapist has helped.  She is able to handle my dBPDh in a way that I have never seen and is able to get us both to have a team attitude.

[Indyan]

The reality here is that if I put any expectations on her, she is guaranteed not to meet those expectations and that means I might as well discontinue the relationship.  The real keys here are patience, learning to deal with our own issues, and living in today, not the past or the future.

Wow, so much wisdom in your talking.

[Indyan]

I'm trying to be quite aloof with it. I've noticed if I don't show too much interest she actually does better. I guess because she feels in control of it. So I said "I don't give a hoot if you have BP, NP or the plague, I just want to know what it means for you and what it means for me and the children. Can you tell me?". I'm trying to get her to understand the implications of the disease for me and others.

That makes a lot of sense to me. At least, that was what I thought a few weeks ago... .but now I'm not sure anymore... .he's gone to crazy.

Has you wife ever had any "major crisis"? I mean what's been her worst behaviour?

[Moselle]

I'm trying to be quite aloof with it. I've noticed if I don't show too much interest she actually does better. I guess because she feels in control of it. So I said "I don't give a hoot if you have BP, NP or the plague, I just want to know what it means for you and what it means for me and the children. Can you tell me?". I'm trying to get her to understand the implications of the disease for me and others.

That makes a lot of sense to me. At least, that was what I thought a few weeks ago... .but now I'm not sure anymore... .he's gone to crazy.

Has you wife ever had any "major crisis"? I mean what's been her worst behaviour?

Twice, she has gone bezerk for a period of months. Both precipitated by  uncertainty career changes of mine. The first was 4 years ago, the second 7 months ago. She started screaming at everyone, me kids. She started hitting and kicking me, swearing and throwing things, going to bed for 3 to 4 days at a time. Day in day out for weeks and months. The first time I left the country, the second time, I left the city.

The first time I said "it's divorce or therapy". She chose therapy but did nothing to change really, and I had no idea about my role in it as co-dep, or BPD NPD.

This time I know about all that fun stuff :-) it's been 7 months

[Indyan]

How about the kids when you left? I mean who took care of them?

Does she feel a tiny little bit grateful for your patience?

LOL what a question! I guess she might even feel resentful .

You say she's in recovery but your profile shows "undecided", how come?

[Moselle]

How about the kids when you left? I mean who took care of them?

Does she feel a tiny little bit grateful for your patience?

LOL what a question! I guess she might even feel resentful .

You say she's in recovery but your profile shows "undecided", how come?

She's actually extremely highly functioning and I think the NPD counteracts the debilitating part of the BPD. She gets the kids to school and gets everything done, so I don't worry that way. What I am concerned about is their emotional welfare, so I speak to each of them individually on the phone twice a day, and once every two days or so on skype. W resisted all of this communication of course but I just persisted and persisted and persisted, and now she actually appreciates the value of it.

Her awareness is so brand new, I'm not sure what to make of it. She already had a relapse saying it's actually me with BP and NP :-) but I guess the evidence is stacking up and perhaps  she realises that if things don't change I'm outta here. I don't think there's a lot of concern for me in that, but she's had a taste of life on her own, and a money, sperm and time donor is something to be kept around.

That kind of answers your next question.  Why am I undecided? Well I don't like being a convenient piece of meat. I've decided I want to be nurtured, respected and loved by my mate. I'm not willing to compromise on that. I just want it and I'm happy to give what I need to on my side to have it.

[Indyan]

She's actually extremely highly functioning and I think the NPD counteracts the debilitating part of the BPD.

I'm very intrigued as I thought that NPs were "the bad guys out there". Today, I saw a therapist (THE director of THE BPD association in my country) and he said (among lots of other fascinating things) that, according to all I told him, not only my uBPDbf had PBD (at last!) but also "some" NPD.

And freaked me out. What does it mean for real? That he manipulates me for his own interest?

[Moselle]

Look I'm no expert on this but my W does not lose executive function like a classic. BPD. I assume the NPD kicks in at a certain stage, and says, "Hang on, you're incredible, keep going".

She is actually an extremely capable and talented woman.

Prone to spouse abuse though. That's not so kosher

[MissyM]

My dBPDh also has NPD traits.  He would also be classified as "high functioning" BPD, Ivy league educated and somewhat successful.  Think the NPD traits are what have pushed him further, of course he isn't nearly as successful as he could be  because with the BPD he sabotages himself when things go too well.

[Moselle]

My dBPDh also has NPD traits.  He would also be classified as "high functioning" BPD, Ivy league educated and somewhat successful.  Think the NPD traits are what have pushed him further, of course he isn't nearly as successful as he could be  because with the BPD he sabotages himself when things go too well.

That's interesting. Nice to see that correlated with someone else's experience. Do you get blamed much?

It's taken 14 years for the BPD NPD to reach it's full acidic bloom. I see yours is diagnosed. Is he open to treatment? Has he shown any progress since diagnosis?

[Indyan]

My dBPDh also has NPD traits.  He would also be classified as "high functioning" BPD, Ivy league educated and somewhat successful.  Think the NPD traits are what have pushed him further, of course he isn't nearly as successful as he could be  because with the BPD he sabotages himself when things go too well.

I get the bit on the professional side of things. But on a relationship level, does it make them evil?

I feel my PBDbf is not acting spontaneously (it's been this way for 2 or 3 months now and I hate this), and I keep wondering what on earth he can be hinding from me, or what behaviour is trying to induce in me.

For example tonight (he's away at his parents, as I've often mentionned) I texted him about my therapy session today, of which I was very enthousiastic. And I told him the neighbour gave some veggies from her garden. He chose to only reply to the second part ("say thanks to her from me", as if to say "I don't share your enthousiasm about therapy".

I feel he's constantly trying to hurt me on some level. But if I mention something (like "seems I'm bothering you with this subject), then he turns it against me ("what have I done - or not done- again?"

[MissyM]

That's interesting. Nice to see that correlated with someone else's experience. Do you get blamed much?

It's taken 14 years for the BPD NPD to reach it's full acidic bloom. I see yours is diagnosed. Is he open to treatment? Has he shown any progress since diagnosis?

He has blamed me for everything in the past. He is in treatment and is responding.  He is also in recovery.  All of this is requiring that he deal with his behaviors and the shame he feels from them.  Shame is a huge issue for BPDs and for addicts.  He has ups and downs but is generally heading upward.  Things are usually 2 steps forward, 1 step back.  He is an intelligent guy and can be loving.  Hoping that things continue to improve.

[MissyM]

I get the bit on the professional side of things. But on a relationship level, does it make them evil?

  Well, at times I have thought that!  LOL.  However, it is more that he has been incredibly immature and selfish.  That is improving as he gets better.  I am hopeful, at this point.

[vortex of confusion]

We actually discussed this in marital DBT today.  Many BPDs have no stress tolerance and hit the road when it gets to the hard work. This is also true in addiction, when people get to the 4th step they run.  All I can do is be supportive while my dBPDh works through all of this.  We talked about some ways that I could support him, he couldn't come up with any himself and the therapist had to recommend some things and let him pick.  I really can't say enough how having a DBT marital therapist has helped.  She is able to handle my dBPDh in a way that I have never seen and is able to get us both to have a team attitude.

That is really good to know. My husband has been on step 4 for quite some time now. When I ask him how I can support him,  he has no clue. When I ask him anything about anything dealing with his recovery, I get really vague answers like, "I am taking it one day at a time." Or, "I am doing really well. I think I have made a lot of progress." My perception of things is very different than his but I am starting to realize how normal that is.

[MissyM]

That is really good to know. My husband has been on step 4 for quite some time now. When I ask him how I can support him,  he has no clue. When I ask him anything about anything dealing with his recovery, I get really vague answers like, "I am taking it one day at a time." Or, "I am doing really well. I think I have made a lot of progress." My perception of things is very different than his but I am starting to realize how normal that is.

That is how my dBPDh was in recovery last year, then we ended up having a big blow up and separated.  He went into  relapse, not as bad as his previous addiction behavior but still a relapse.   Once he was diagnosed with BPD and NPD traits, then started a different therapy approach, and now he is truly in recovery and able to talk about it.  He started recovery 3 years ago but has only truly been engaged the last 5 months.  I hear many people say it took 2-3 years for their SA husbands to get truly into recovery not just sobriety.  Not sure if those are all the ones that have PDs or not.  They can recover, it just takes a lot of work.

[Moselle]

That is how my dBPDh was in recovery last year, then we ended up having a big blow up and separated.  He went into  relapse, not as bad as his previous addiction behavior but still a relapse.   Once he was diagnosed with BPD and NPD traits, then started a different therapy approach, and now he is truly in recovery and able to talk about it.  He started recovery 3 years ago but has only truly been engaged the last 5 months.  I hear many people say it took 2-3 years for their SA husbands to get truly into recovery not just sobriety.  Not sure if those are all the ones that have PDs or not.  They can recover, it just takes a lot of work.

That sounds familiar!

What new treatment regime is he busy with? Mine has had hit or miss therapy for 4 years, but only strated taking it seriously when I walked out and stopped paying for it.

I've got a crucial week ahead. I'm back with the family, and I'm determined to start a new way of living and test if she is serious... I think it's a crucial watershed for me. She has the choice to come along or relapse.

I think I can hold it for a year all by myself.

Has anyone ever "scheduled" a separation for 1 years time to do a health check and see if the new patterns have stuck and to get some BPD  Rest n Recovery

[ziniztar]

I've got a crucial week ahead. I'm back with the family, and I'm determined to start a new way of living and test if she is serious... I think it's a crucial watershed for me. She has the choice to come along or relapse.

Good luck Moselle, I'm voting for you.

My dBPDbf has been in therapy each week for 1,5 years and he's been pretty consistent in going there. I expect whatever the hell is happening right now are relapses. I remember he turned around the day after I thought 'hey this kinda feels like a normal relationship now'. His parents had commented the week before we were doing so well and making nice grown-up decisions. Perhaps it was all too good too soon. That can invoke fears of abandonment again from a thought pattern 'I'f I'm doing too good these people will leave and I have nothing to fall back on anymore'.

[Indyan]

Ziniztar, I don't get it. He goes to therapy every week and looks "healed" and your status shows are "undecided" about staying with him?

[MissyM]

What new treatment regime is he busy with? Mine has had hit or miss therapy for 4 years, but only strated taking it seriously when I walked out and stopped paying for it.

His CSAT (certified sex addict therapist) is now treating him as BPD and NPD, with some trauma work and CBT, weekly.  He started attending a different 12 step group (2 times a week) and got a new sponsor, that is really a good relationship for him. He attends group therapy weekly.  We started marital DBT together, weekly.  And last but not least, he has gotten on a new antidepressant.  These are a lot of changes but they seem to be working.  He has had some small slips but is generally getting better.

[ziniztar]

Ziniztar, I don't get it. He goes to therapy every week and looks "healed" and your status shows are "undecided" about staying with him?

Yeah I could see why this amazes you. However, he turned very depressed after that wondeful month of June and ended up cheating on me a few weeks ago. So even though this is all part of a bigger plan of recovery, in order for us to proceed I had to act. So we split up for the time being, he knew this was my biggest fear/boundary and he crossed it.

I had him on the phone yesterday, and he said he now realized he is very ill. He called BPD his illness before but I think it really got to him this time. He's doing stuff for me I value (call once in a while, he's taking me out to dinner on my birthday that is coming up, he even said I could still use his car if I needed to (we shared it), but that he also realizes he needs a lot of time. Him calling me yesterday was 'quite a thing for him', I think because of the shame and guilt. Previously he would have cut off contact completely because he couldn't handle it. So even though it is small for me, I see why this is a big step for him. In the meantime this is a very good time for me to demesh and get back to my old self again.

And, Undecided, because I want to Stay but not at all cost, and it now depends on his commitment to grow and work through things, if I will actually stay...

[Indyan]

Yes, I am in the same situation sort of. Except that he's just starting therapy, staying at his parents and we have a baby.

What you say about him realising how "ill" he is is very interesting. My bf has been in deny for weeks and weeks (he did admit having "a big problem" in the past), saying that "everyone has problems" and all that rubbish. I decided to see THE big specialist in BPD, and now he said he's going to see him. Which means he  will normally hear from the therapist's mouth that he's "ill", and what to do about it, and that it doesn't mean "crazy" etc.

I think they KNOW deep inside there going wrong, it's just too hard to admit it. And they have no idea as to what to do to repair their mistakes, but might accept to do anything we propose.

Long is the road... .

Good luck with your BPD. Are you married?

[ziniztar]

How old is your baby? And how long have you two been together? I’m happy for you he has started therapy, although I have to say: it’s not a straight line up. There will be relapses you think you can imagine and prepare for, but then you can’t, otherwise it wouldn’t be a total relapse.

What you say about him realising how "ill" he is is very interesting. My bf has been in deny for weeks and weeks (he did admit having "a big problem" in the past), saying that "everyone has problems" and all that rubbish.

The thing is, and this comes and falls with the ups and downs of recovery... we started dating when he was in therapy for about 3 months. He told it to me on the 3rd date and then later mentioned his T was very proud of him that he was so open about it. I now see that him telling me this, never meant that he had actually accepted the diagnosis and really understood the severity of it. He was very disconnected at the time. When I tried to talk about it with him, he cringed when he hear the B-word and said it hurt him a lot. So I stopped doing that, until he started talking about ‘my borderline’ and later on even ‘my illness’. Now, he seems to internalize it by saying he is ill.

About the progress: when he met me he was in therapy for a few months. Was alone the first months, got stronger (duh he wasn’t in a r/s), met me, got happy all white-idealizationphase-style. So he also thought therapy was going very well. By that time he didn’t really understand yet how strong the pattern was. He had a bi-annual checklist in January and the results of his overall life quality were higher than 6 months before. His T then mentioned “be aware that you are very in love with your bf now”. I assume he did not expect the set-back at all, as he was not aware of his pattern yet. And I know he cares for me a lot (apart from the black/white thinking) and that he never imagined he would have cheated on me... that was his realization that he is in fact ill, and does not control his actions. I know that the cheating was a form of acting out, probably searching for comfort at a time when I was distancing myself from him and a lot of his friends started doing the same as well. He had no net to fall back on.

I think they KNOW deep inside there going wrong, it's just too hard to admit it. And they have no idea as to what to do to repair their mistakes, but might accept to do anything we propose.

I think admitting it is difficult as it entails admitting bad behavior you’ve had for years, all of a sudden you have to re-assess all the fights you had when you thought you were completely right. I also think a) they have no idea what to do to repair their mistakes but b) when they know, they don’t trust their level of self-control to actually execute that new behavior. Which actually is correct.

Good luck with your BPD. Are you married?

Nope, only a year together, no kids. It’s one of the reasons I’m undecided, if this takes too much effort I’m out. But what is too much effort? I also value giving people a (2nd) chance to grow, and as long as he’s working his ass off, I am enclined to do the same. The only big fat lesson I had to learn is that I have to take good care of myself, which, in the end, gives him time and space to breathe and work on his own recovery.

[Indyan]

Nope, only a year together, no kids. It’s one of the reasons I’m undecided, if this takes too much effort I’m out. But what is too much effort? I also value giving people a (2nd) chance to grow, and as long as he’s working his ass off, I am enclined to do the same. The only big fat lesson I had to learn is that I have to take good care of myself, which, in the end, gives him time and space to breathe and work on his own recovery.

I learnt my lesson too! Been together for 2 years, baby is now 7 months (yes, everything went very fast).

I had to learn to be "selfish", to be capable of enjoying life with my kids (I also have a 10D) when he's in "crisis".

You're lucky he'd already begun his T when you met him, and that he was already diagnosed.

It took me about 1 year to figure out there was something wrong with him and find out about BPD on the net. And almost another year for him to start T and probably get professional diagnosis.

Although this is quick compared to some people who find out about thedisorder after years.

[ziniztar]

Well Moselle & BPD Family in general,

My dBPDbf asked to write down a list of expectations from a relationship. I used the characteristics of healthy relationships as a framework, and for each value I described a 'from' and 'to' state. Sometimes I used very explicit examples (in case of arguments), sometimes I stayed more vague.

I also let him know which ones I think are the first to be built up, before we can start calling this a r/s again, and I asked him what he would like in a r/s...

Sent it to my T and he told me he wanted to know where I got it from, he thought it was a really good way to list this . So, props for Moselle and BPD Family for the input...  

[Moselle]

Well Moselle & BPD Family in general,

My dBPDbf asked to write down a list of expectations from a relationship. I used the characteristics of healthy relationships as a framework, and for each value I described a 'from' and 'to' state. Sometimes I used very explicit examples (in case of arguments), sometimes I stayed more vague.

I also let him know which ones I think are the first to be built up, before we can start calling this a r/s again, and I asked him what he would like in a r/s...

Sent it to my T and he told me he wanted to know where I got it from, he thought it was a really good way to list this . So, props for Moselle and BPD Family for the input...  

So happy for you Ziniztar, it feels great doesn't it.

I got through them last night with my W and children and basically started the conversation by saying to the girls. If you could change one thing from 7 months ago in the family what would it be. And they chose "conflict". And I proceeded to outline my From To's in front of W. I talked about a family with chaos, dysregulation, and disorder to one which is ordered, peaceful, pleasant to be around. And basically said in front of W, this is my choice as the father of my chldren and i will be teaching you these skills at every opportunity I can.

I basically made the rubicon speech. I'm not going back to the time of conflict, disorder, chaos. I have chosen that. and we have a new standard. They are not rules, they are a standard. And when we don't measure up, we realise "Love yourself, Everyone makes mistakes", say sorry to those offended, and move on.

My middle one aged 10 came afterwards and gave me a big smile and a hug. Saying "thank you dad". They've had 7 months of BPD NPD fare, and I think they want it to end.

I am also being blunt about Borderline and Narcissitic traits with them. I don't name them that way, but I tell them what they look like in front of W. She didn't bat an eyelid!

Good luck with yours. Hold it firm!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ziniztar]

My middle one aged 10 came afterwards and gave me a big smile and a hug. Saying "thank you dad".

that must have been an amazing feeling! You hold firm now too  

I was wondering, how did your SO's react to this list or your ideas of how a r/s could work? Mine called today, and he kept telling me he does not believe he will ever be able to get near the list I created. At some point I got annoyed with him as he kept talking about how he could never do it without deciding to quit things. "I am just sharing how I feel about it, I don't know what I mean to say with it." Which actually is behavior that got quite near one of the points on my list, but hey, he doesn't see that .

In some way I feel stupid and naiv for thinking he is able to change, as he is the one who has to believe it if he wants to really change. Then again, maybe believing you can do it is not something you need to change; it's the desire to change?

He proposed to come here and was shocked I was okay with it. Told him he could think about it but that he has to be here by 11 as my sleep is important. Also told him I don't want to 'talk' anymore, just be. Talking can be done later again, I don't want to talk anymore after 1,5 hours of being on the phone. I even quit the conversation and hung up! Something I never dreamt I would do before as it would feel like abandoning him (really, a phone call zin? Yes, a phone call).

[MissyM]

I

was wondering, how did your SO's react to this list or your ideas of how a r/s could work? Mine called today, and he kept telling me he does not believe he will ever be able to get near the list I created. At some point I got annoyed with him as he kept talking about how he could never do it without deciding to quit things. "I am just sharing how I feel about it, I don't know what I mean to say with it." Which actually is behavior that got quite near one of the points on my list, but hey, he doesn't see that wink.

Seems that a long list would be overwhelming for a BPD.  I know that I did an Impact Letter to my dBPDh and he has really struggled with it.  I finally had to ask him to never read it again, he can ruminate on things and then it does become overwhelming.  Focusing on dealing with one thing at a time is hard for my dBPDh to do but necessary to his recovery.  If he focuses on everything, then he will do nothing.

[Ceruleanblue]

I too had a separation from my uBPDh. It was about four weeks ago, and I only took him back on certain conditions. I gave my all before our separation, and don't even believe in "breaks" or separations, but I was at wit's end. I was about to end up in our local stress unit, and my emotional state was not good. I'd about killed myself trying to deal with his blame, rages, aggression, moods, and meanness. I felt like I'd run flat out, and gave it my all, and was about to drop dead... .so I gave him that "break" he was always wanting(he was always huge on divorce threats too).

I discovered while he was gone, that I felt fine when he was gone, which I sort of already knew. I leveled out, and got my feet back under me. I got my boundaries back in place, and I re evaluated what I wanted and needed. I faced my fear of being alone, and decided alone was better than what I'd been living. Another whole faction is that uBPDh has four adult kids, three of whom are daughters who hate me, and treat me horribly, and uBPDh blames me, and enables that in them. I've tried and tried with them, and all I get is abuse. I married into a hornet's nest of dysfunction and personality disorders. Getting out seemed like self preservation.

Well, I did fine while he was gone for the most part, uBPD however didn't react like I thought he would. I expected him to move on, go back to kissing his kids' butts, and want out of our marriage. I expected total denial of his horrid anger, moods and irrational behaviors. Instead, he went to a psychiatrist(finally), got diagnosed with ODD(total bullcrap diagnosis, but whatever... .I'm sure he'll eventually get diagnosed with BPD or APD), and he got put on meds. I agreed to take him back on some conditions. It was rocky for a bit, even after I first took him back, and I was actually regretting my decision. Now, after about five weeks though, I think the meds have kicked in, and he's really being much, much better. He's still not what he pretended to be when we dated, but he's not the flaming rage-a-holic he'd become either. He's easier to deal with and live with.

I hope it continues, and I'm really thinking it is the medication. Therapy never helped this much, and in fact he's seen the same therapist for three years, so I feel he needs a new one. He needs someone who can push him, one who sets goals, and one who doesn't just buy into his manipulation. I never thought he'd ever get any better, and I'm amazed, and thankful that he has.

Lots of damage has been done though, and we are going to get in couples counseling to address that.

[Indyan]

I too had a separation from my uBPDh. It was about four weeks ago, and I only took him back on certain conditions. I gave my all before our separation, and don't even believe in "breaks" or separations, but I was at wit's end. I was about to end up in our local stress unit, and my emotional state was not good. I'd about killed myself trying to deal with his blame, rages, aggression, moods, and meanness. I felt like I'd run flat out, and gave it my all, and was about to drop dead... .so I gave him that "break" he was always wanting(he was always huge on divorce threats too).

I discovered while he was gone, that I felt fine when he was gone, which I sort of already knew. I leveled out, and got my feet back under me. I got my boundaries back in place, and I re evaluated what I wanted and needed. I faced my fear of being alone, and decided alone was better than what I'd been living. Another whole faction is that uBPDh has four adult kids, three of whom are daughters who hate me, and treat me horribly, and uBPDh blames me, and enables that in them. I've tried and tried with them, and all I get is abuse. I married into a hornet's nest of dysfunction and personality disorders. Getting out seemed like self preservation.

Well, I did fine while he was gone for the most part, uBPD however didn't react like I thought he would. I expected him to move on, go back to kissing his kids' butts, and want out of our marriage. I expected total denial of his horrid anger, moods and irrational behaviors. Instead, he went to a psychiatrist(finally), got diagnosed with ODD(total bullcrap diagnosis, but whatever... .I'm sure he'll eventually get diagnosed with BPD or APD), and he got put on meds. I agreed to take him back on some conditions. It was rocky for a bit, even after I first took him back, and I was actually regretting my decision. Now, after about five weeks though, I think the meds have kicked in, and he's really being much, much better. He's still not what he pretended to be when we dated, but he's not the flaming rage-a-holic he'd become either. He's easier to deal with and live with.

I hope it continues, and I'm really thinking it is the medication. Therapy never helped this much, and in fact he's seen the same therapist for three years, so I feel he needs a new one. He needs someone who can push him, one who sets goals, and one who doesn't just buy into his manipulation. I never thought he'd ever get any better, and I'm amazed, and thankful that he has.

Lots of damage has been done though, and we are going to get in couples counseling to address that.

Very, very interesting what you're describing.

I'm at the stage of "feeling better on my own while he's still stuck in anger."

As I mentionned earlier, I've seen a briliant therapist (the best in my country since he's the therapist director of the BPD association), which made me feel a lot better. He understood me, read behind the lines in an amazing way, confirmed "my" diagnosis and proposed a programme of therapy.

My BPDh said he'd call him... .and hasn't. Still serves me that angry bull___. I told him I'm counting on him for the sake of our baby son... .we'll see. I think he's freaking out as he knows T is specialized in BPD.

What's the med your h's on? How did he "come back"? Did he beg you ()?

I'd never heard of ODD, had a look, sounds stupid... .as stupid as my uBPDh who got "conjugopathy" as a "diagnosis" (I checked on the internet, the definition was "problems with spouse which make us feel depressed"... .

[ziniztar]

I

was wondering, how did your SO's react to this list or your ideas of how a r/s could work? Mine called today, and he kept telling me he does not believe he will ever be able to get near the list I created. At some point I got annoyed with him as he kept talking about how he could never do it without deciding to quit things. "I am just sharing how I feel about it, I don't know what I mean to say with it." Which actually is behavior that got quite near one of the points on my list, but hey, he doesn't see that wink.

Seems that a long list would be overwhelming for a BPD.  I know that I did an Impact Letter to my dBPDh and he has really struggled with it.  I finally had to ask him to never read it again, he can ruminate on things and then it does become overwhelming.  Focusing on dealing with one thing at a time is hard for my dBPDh to do but necessary to his recovery.  If he focuses on everything, then he will do nothing.

Yeah I was expecting that a little and it happened. What I know is that he WANTS this, and that sometimes is all that matters. I'll tell him to stop looking at the list and to focus on something else - I will make sure I address the several issues in a predefined order, knowing what I think is important and knowing that not everything can be changed at once.

[MissyM]

What I know is that he WANTS this, and that sometimes is all that matters. I'll tell him to stop looking at the list and to focus on something else - I will make sure I address the several issues in a predefined order, knowing what I think is important and knowing that not everything can be changed at once.

My dBPDh wants this too, unless he becomes dysregulated and overwhelmed.  Then he goes to ending the relationship as a solution.  We talked about it in MC today, how he cycles through all of his emotions and gets angry.  Then he either shuts down or threatens to end the relationship.  It was good to talk through the cycle and some ways he can problem solve and not let his emotions get away with him.  My therapist talks about the 1st order of change with addicts vs. the 2nd order of change.  The 1st order includes doing all the things required, like a check list.  The 2nd order of change is when the thinking changes, that is really the goal and takes much longer.

[ziniztar]

My dBPDh wants this too, unless he becomes dysregulated and overwhelmed.

Yes I recognize this A LOT. 

When I talk to my friends about what he says during these times they say ‘But if he really thinks he can’t do it then why would you continue?’ It’s sometimes hard to explain that I know he’s in an all-black state where he thinks nothing will ever work again. And that I choose not to take his words literally, I know he’ll change his thinking the day after. What I’ve learnt now is that I should not waste too much time & energy to convince him he’s wrong, I just let him be.

He was very overwhelmed with the list on Tuesday, sounded quite hopeless, about our cycle as well. He mentioned ‘I’ll have another episode and then you react to it and then I react by taking more space and then you react even more, that’s how it works with us. I’ve been in the same pattern for so long, nothing changed compared to last year, nothing changed in 1 year of therapy. Why would it change next?’

All I could say is that I am determined to change my part in the cycle, and the advice of my T is invaluable. I know that everything I’ve tried before didn’t work, so I’d be quite stupid to continue down that road. As for him, I told him that he probably better grin and bear this one to change his part of his cycle as well, and that I am very curious to see the effect on him when I change my part in all this.

Yesterday he called me to ask about my opinion about him getting his own business ‘as you are probably the person on this planet that knows me best’, texted later that day ‘I have a good feeling about how we’re doing, I think’ and that he was willing to build things up again. Today he’s acting like nothing changed – which annoys me but I know that is my issue . I like that part about a 1st round and a 2nd round of change... I think the 2nd one just started, so the road ahead is long.

[MissyM]

Oh, that sounds so much like my dBPDh.  In previous marital therapy he would just say how hopeless this all was and the therapist would tell us just to get divorced.  My husband would look at the therapist like they were crazy and say that isn't what he really meant.  The DBT marital therapist we have now, helps him logically sort through his emotions and try to problem solve.  He is just problem solving in a BPD way, which doesn't work.  (I feel sad, lonely and hurt, therefore I will leave and be alone)  This is the opposite of the outcome he wants but he has no skills to deal with his emotional state.  The hard part for me is not reacting to the threats, they are hurtful.  Ugh!  I am getting better at it but people that aren't in a relationship with BPDs do not understand. 

[Moselle]

People that aren't in a relationship with BPDs do not understand. 

No they really don't do they, in fact everything they give as advice is often the opposite of what we need to do.

It's a very lonely road

[Rapt Reader]

When I talk to my friends about what he says during these times they say ‘But if he really thinks he can’t do it then why would you continue?’ It’s sometimes hard to explain that I know he’s in an all-black state where he thinks nothing will ever work again. And that I choose not to take his words literally, I know he’ll change his thinking the day after. What I’ve learnt now is that I should not waste too much time & energy to convince him he’s wrong, I just let him be.

This had happened in my relationship with my Husband fairly regularly. We've been married for 40 years, and 90% of the time he is happy and fun and loving and easy to live with (prior to my finding this site in April 2013, I'd say it was maybe 70% of the time, more or less). The last time he dysregulated to the point that he questioned our being married (  ) was last December.

It was weird. He'd gotten up very early on a Saturday morning to snow-blow the driveway, and as he left the bedroom in his warm clothes at maybe 5:00 AM, he told me: ":)on't get out of bed; I have to do the driveway... .go back to sleep" in a calm, loving way. So I went back to sleep.

At around 7:00 AM I woke up to him slamming around the bedroom looking for his regular clothes, obviously in a state of anger. I said "What's wrong?" thinking he had problems with the snow-blower and I wanted to sympathize. He just glared at me and said "Nothing."

I got out of bed and found him in the kitchen in front of the sink. I put my arms around his waist as he was getting the water ready for his coffee, and he stiffened up, letting me know that his anger was directed at me. Out of left field. I was actually quite stunned, and couldn't figure out what I'd done "wrong". I asked him what's wrong? He turned around and looked at me with that look of his (like the proverbial stranger, someone who didn't know my soul anymore, with little flecks of hatred in his eyes), that told me that this was going to be a "big one".

He said: "I can't believe you. And you have no idea what is wrong. Fine. I guess that I've been watching too many warm and fuzzy Christmas movies on the DVR, and living in a fantasy world. Well, life isn't like that--it's nothing like I thought, and I have to get used to that... ." He was actually livid, stiff and brimming with anger.

He looked at me and said: "You have no idea what I'm talking about. If I went to work and told the guys I work with all about what you did this morning, they wouldn't believe it! They'd say 'Really?' They just wouldn't believe it! Well, if you don't know what I'm talking about, then forget it. This marriage is SHOT!"

Well, obviously I didn't know what he was talking about. I scanned my brain for any bits and pieces of my behavior since he'd told me to go back to sleep, and couldn't for the life of me figure out what he was talking about. So, I just looked at him with a sympathetic putting of my lips together, furrowing of my eyebrows and nodding of my head, and I didn't say anything. I went slowly back into the bedroom to get dressed for the day.

He had breakfast without saying anything to me, went down to the garage to work in his workshop, and at lunch time I found him there and told him lunch was ready--nicely    By dinnertime he was almost back to his friendly old self, and by 7:00 PM when we usually watch old movies from the DVR on our large-screen TV on a Saturday night, he was not stiff anymore and we watched on the double recliner together (as usual), in a fairly friendly way. By the next morning he was back to himself, and we didn't talk about what had happened. I didn't want to JADE in any way (and how could I? I had no idea what I'd done   ), and I didn't want to ask him what I'd done, because he'd already told me that if I didn't know, then our marriage was "SHOT!"

The kicker is, about 2 weeks later, he had to snow-blow the driveway again, very early in the morning. I heard the snow-blower (this time I didn't wake up as he got dressed for the ordeal) outside, and hurried out of bed. After getting dressed for the day (and it was only around 5:30 AM or so!), I went into the kitchen to ponder my next move. He wanted me to do something, but what was it? I waited for him to finish up and put the snow-blower in the garage, and made him a pot of coffee. When he came upstairs and saw me in the kitchen with the coffee pot filled, he looked at me with such pain and consternation: "You didn't have to get out of bed... .That wasn't what I'd meant... ." And then lovingly thanked me for the coffee, and the day went fine.

And 10 months later we have never discussed what I did "wrong" last December, but he had snow-blown the driveway several times more since that day (I didn't get out of bed), without incident. Knowing that these phases happen, and not getting tangled up in them by JADEing or needling at him ("What did I do? Please tell me what I did wrong! Please don't be mad at me! I never mean to hurt you when stuff like this happens!", not only seems to make the dysregulation fade away much quicker than in the past, but also seems to prevent them from happening as often. Go figure... .

[Indyan]

No they really don't do they, in fact everything they give as advice is often the opposite of what we need to do.

It's a very lonely road

Indeed, and I think it's even worse on his part. His family (who totally deny he as a problem, how can they?) believe everything the tells them, and encourage his deepest fears. You freak out she might vanish with your son? Get an attorney, and don't tell her anything!

I got physically sick when I found out what sort of advice he'd got from his sister, I wouldn't talk to her since then.

People don't understand, that's true. But they are common sense too. They hear about violence, instability, suffering, so they say "leave, just leave!"

[Moselle]

Knowing that these phases happen, and not getting tangled up in them by JADEing or needling at him ("What did I do? Please tell me what I did wrong! Please don't be mad at me! I never mean to hurt you when stuff like this happens!", not only seems to make the dysregulation fade away much quicker than in the past, but also seems to prevent them from happening as often. Go figure... .

Oh dear. I had one this week. We had an argument about one of her selfish things, and it escalated from there. Wish I could say that I had self control. I actually was the one saying, "why am I doing this... .again", and brought up exiting. She then hit the proverbial roof, telling me to get my stuff and leave, we are over, your last chance is over. Don't speak to me, speak to my lawyer, she 'll phone you tomorrow about the divorce. She had that glazed look, like "I could kill you, look", so I packed up my things and left.

2 hours later and about 50 crazy sms's, she said "I need a hug, I'll give you one last chance if you come over now".

crazy making!

[maxsterling]

Wow, Rapt!  that's quite a story!  First of all, I am jealous that you get 90% pleasantness, and still got 70% before finding this site.  The most I have been able to get is maybe 50%.  And there were week after week where that number was around 10%.  But second of all - I think it is situations like this that helped me realize that much of her anguish has nothing to do with me or anything I can do anything about.  I've been in similar.  She's upset, I can't figure out what it is, I am to blame, the r/s is over, etc, etc.  Eventually, things calm down, I think the problem is gone, but maybe weeks or months later the problem resurfaces and she is still mad about me not fixing whatever that initial problem was.  And if I ever do discover what the problem was, I realize it was something completely absurd or completely beyond my control. 

If I can venture a guess from your story, the problem was that he was angry he had to get up to remove snow in the first place.  And then something happened.  The blower did not work correctly, he bumped his knew on something, he slipped on ice, who knows.  Or maybe he had to move something of yours out of the way to find something he needed.  You then got the blame because you weren't there to help him when the problem arose (even though he told you to stay in bed). 

[Indyan]

2 hours later and about 50 crazy sms's, she said "I need a hug, I'll give you one last chance if you come over now".

I hope you apologized too! 

[ziniztar]

Wow Rapt Reader, that IS quite the story.

When I read it, in all honesty I think: do I want a marriage like that? We're together for 1 year now, no kids, nothing to bind us... wouldn't it be easier to step out?

And yes, easier it would be. Then again I know I can't quit right now, for some reason, so I better stay until I know for sure.

As mentioned before my dBPDbf is back on the white track again thinking everything is normal, while I am still physically hurting when he pretends everything is back to normal even though we haven't seen each other for 2 weeks and the last time I checked, he was the one cheating on me. He's been sending very happy texts, even though this (!) Sunday he said to me 'just leave me alone until the end of the week'. And then things changed.

Today I didn't respond to a picture he sent me and I hoped it would pass by silently. Instead, he texted 'so, no reponse to the picture really?'. I answered that I don't really feel like texting a lot yet as it feels like nothing happened, and that's not the case. I called him, he didnt respond, and I went to a work event without my phone. When I got back he called me twice and sent me 'Are you not responding on purpose?'

Oeuf. I think I have underestimated this disorder, or maybe I've underestimated the severity of his diagnosis. All I know is that I had a HUGE struggle going to that particular work event, as I felt drained/dead/without energy after reading some of his texts, knowing things were back to their normal state without us having seen each other in the mean time. I felt the need to lie down on the sofa, cancel on the event, and cry a little until falling asleep. Ok, a lot. But I went, because that's what I promised myself (and him) to do: changing my end of the cycle. So I had a wonderful evening with colleagues, got a little drunk (guilty!) and when I got home and saw all this... I empathized with his insecure feelings but I didn't feel responsible for them, or dependent on him.

I even educated an intern today on 'getting out of the FOG' as he mentioned he wouldn't send a e-mail to introduce himself to the European community out of fear, so I (double) dared him. So, this site even provides career advice to interns  .

[Rapt Reader]

Oh dear. I had one this week. We had an argument about one of her selfish things, and it escalated from there. Wish I could say that I had self control. I actually was the one saying, "why am I doing this... .again", and brought up exiting. She then hit the proverbial roof, telling me to get my stuff and leave, we are over, your last chance is over. Don't speak to me, speak to my lawyer, she 'll phone you tomorrow about the divorce. She had that glazed look, like "I could kill you, look", so I packed up my things and left.

2 hours later and about 50 crazy sms's, she said "I need a hug, I'll give you one last chance if you come over now".

crazy making!

So did it all work out well?    If so, then it sounds like you learned something... .Try not to get all caught up emotionally in her "stuff" if you can understand that it really isn't all about you; it's the disorder talking. And if you can give her the space to speak her piece, and validate it (even without words, but with your expressions and body language), it could blow over quicker than usual. I really hope it worked out well... .(and I agree with Indyan that apologizing for threatening divorce would not have been a bad idea!).

Wow, Rapt!  that's quite a story!  First of all, I am jealous that you get 90% pleasantness, and still got 70% before finding this site... .If I can venture a guess from your story, the problem was that he was angry he had to get up to remove snow in the first place.  And then something happened.  The blower did not work correctly, he bumped his knew on something, he slipped on ice, who knows.  Or maybe he had to move something of yours out of the way to find something he needed.  You then got the blame because you weren't there to help him when the problem arose (even though he told you to stay in bed).

I know that I am lucky that he's pretty regulated and fun to live with most of the time. But that is one of the reasons that when something like that happens, it hits me like a ton of bricks and I'm very confused. Luckily, my first reaction now is within the parameters of Validation, S.E.T., Matching or just being quietly empathetic and compassionate when I just don't know what else to do!

As far as to what he was upset about? I think it had to do more with whatever "fantasy" he was talking about. He's a very sentimental guy; he loves Christmas and wants everything to be done like he thinks is the "perfect Christmas" and he has idealized ideas of us as a couple in all sorts of ways, and especially at Christmas time. When I unknowingly don't live up to his ideals (not just at Christmas) he gets upset. I actually wish I did know just what was in his head at that time of year and what he expected of me that I didn't fulfill. My BPD son, when told the story (by me, later on) said: "Was he expecting you to make him some hot chocolate and take it out to him in the snowy driveway?"   

Wow Rapt Reader, that IS quite the story.

When I read it, in all honesty I think: do I want a marriage like that? We're together for 1 year now, no kids, nothing to bind us... wouldn't it be easier to step out?

And yes, easier it would be. Then again I know I can't quit right now, for some reason, so I better stay until I know for sure.

Well, that's the thing... .We each have to decide what is in our best interests, and what is important to us. I didn't know anything about BPD in 1974 when we got married; I did know his Mom was "crazy" in my mind (I now know she is terribly BPD in a very bad way!), but being 20 years old when we got married, I didn't put 2 + 2 together to realize that he would at the very least have some of her personality traits just due to having her as his Mom   

I just tried to be the best wife I could be. We had our first son (the one who lives with us and is in recovery now) when I was 23, and our second (who's married to my BPD D-I-L, and has a child now) when I was 25. Things were mostly good (really, more or less 70% of the time), but these dysregulations were apparent before our first son was born. I always blamed myself for being somehow a "bad wife" and just tried to do things "right" so that I didn't upset him. He met the woman who he had that 2.5 year affair with, the same month as our 11th Anniversary, and ended it when we were married 13.5 years. No infidelity after that, and I haven't had to worry about it ever since it ended. I'm thankful for that.

I'm glad we got married, I'm happy to have him for my Husband, I'm happy to have my kids and my grandchild. If I had to do it over again, I would... .I've learned a lot about myself and have become a better, more understanding and compassionate person because of him. He's a good provider, and has made a wonderful home for us and a good family life. I grew up with him (I was 18 and he was 21 when we started dating), and he knows me better than anyone else in the Universe. Who else would look in my eyes and see and an 18 year-old, innocent girl?   

[ziniztar]

Today I didn't respond to a picture he sent me and I hoped it would pass by silently. Instead, he texted 'so, no reponse to the picture really?'. I answered that I don't really feel like texting a lot yet as it feels like nothing happened, and that's not the case. I called him, he didnt respond, and I went to a work event without my phone. When I got back he called me twice and sent me 'Are you not responding on purpose?'

Today I realized: these are extinction bursts! I explained to him I would keep a healthier distance and that I don’t want to get too enmeshed anymore.

When he started texting like nothing happened, and getting mad for me not responding immediately, I said I don’t really like this much texting in this stage yet. And that he has to try to trust me that I won’t respond immediately anymore, and will not actively text when I am at work, but that me not responding doesn't mean that I am mad at him or don't want to be with him anymore.

Today, what happened? He sent me a joke around 11 in the morning, with a question to see if I would answer, and then later sent a few other texts as well. I didn’t respond (yay me), but it’s quite funny that you ask someone something and he then does exactly that what you asked not to do anymore.

Before I would have gotten mad at him for not honoring what I had requested... now I see he can’t do anything about that and is probably testing my new behaviour.

I see that I have control over my response and that if he texts me during the day, I am in no way obligated to text him back. If he feels bad about that or demands me I should – that is his problem.

I think I am slowly learning not to act upon fear, and learning to step away from obligation… Feels good .

[Ceruleanblue]

Indyan: I misstated. My uBPDh was actually diagnosed with Intermittent Explosive Disorder(IED), not ODD. I always thought my son had ODD when he was younger, and mis typed. From what I researched, IED is pretty much something they diagnose when NO OTHER disorder can account for the rages, and they don't have many other symptoms. Well, I can tell you that uBPDh has a lot more symptoms. He pretty much checks the entire list of BPD traits other than self harm. He also has a lot of traits you find when looking up Antisocial Personality Disorder, and he's very narcissistic.

He's a lot better right now, but he keeps having setbacks. Maybe that is normal. I'm just happy for such a big improvement. I actually think his getting scared of losing a second marriage, was as much of a motivator for him to change as anything. I'm sure the medication he's on is a huge help, but I don't truly believe this is all due to the meds.

If you think a "break" would help you get perspective, it might be worth considering doing that. I've always been the type who thinks that you stay and work your issues out in marriage, and I think when you have an emotionally healthy partner, that is great. When you have someone acting crazy, and dysregulating, and causing you daily emotional pain, I think it can actually help in some cases. For me, it came down to realizing that not JADE-ing, and validating, was getting me nowhere with him. That nothing I was doing was making a dent in his rages, and lashing out. I had to actually walk away, and be willing to get out, to change the dynamics.

[Moselle]

Oh dear. I had one this week. We had an argument about one of her selfish things, and it escalated from there. Wish I could say that I had self control. I actually was the one saying, "why am I doing this... .again", and brought up exiting. She then hit the proverbial roof, telling me to get my stuff and leave, we are over, your last chance is over. Don't speak to me, speak to my lawyer, she 'll phone you tomorrow about the divorce. She had that glazed look, like "I could kill you, look", so I packed up my things and left.

2 hours later and about 50 crazy sms's, she said "I need a hug, I'll give you one last chance if you come over now".

crazy making!

cc

So did it all work out well?    If so, then it sounds like you learned something... .Try not to get all caught up emotionally in her "stuff" if you can understand that it really isn't all about you; it's the disorder talking. And if you can give her the space to speak her piece, and validate it (even without words, but with your expressions and body language), it could blow over quicker than usual. I really hope it worked out well... .(and I agree with Indyan that apologizing for threatening divorce would not have been a bad idea!).

Yes it worked out well. We patched it up and she's agreed not to threaten divorce any more. We'll see if she keeps to that. We had 4 really fun days thereafter.

[ziniztar]

I notice that now we are building things up again, I feel a very strong resistance towards getting enmeshed. Whenever I feel I do something because it will probably be better for him, my chest starts to burn.

Does anyone recognize this?

Don't really know if I should listen to that completely, a r/s is give and take... but perhaps it's good for me to 'see the other side' for a while before centering somewhere in the middle.

[Moselle]

I recognize the enmeshment but mine's more around her dysregulation. I feel it in sympathy with her :-(. She's hurting so I feel it too

[sweetheart]

Hello ziniztar,

My throat starts to constrict, like my body is actually trying to stop me from talking to try and appease him

It took me a while to recognise, I also get it when I'm withdrawing from a situation which is escalating. My natural response in life would be to try and soothe a persons anguish/pain. Not trying to sort things out doesn't come easily to me.

I've never really struggled not to JADE, but my throat is always fighting with my mouth not to make things better for my husband, which I now realise is different from validating how a person feels.

[Indyan]

I've never really struggled not to JADE, but my throat is always fighting with my mouth not to make things better for my husband, which I now realise is different from validating how a person feels.

You mean you struggle to not go talking about things, am I right?

How do you handle these situations?

[waverider]

This has been an interesting subject, however it has reached its posting limit, and ihas now been locked

A new post has been created to continue in the same theme here

Stepping out of caretaker role