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Author Topic: I'm going back in Advice needed  (Read 723 times)
In Pain
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« on: September 10, 2014, 02:02:22 PM »

I'm going back in ! Advice needed

I've decided to break 8 weeks of NC and contact my ex BPD girlfriend.

What’s a good "Open the Door Again" text to send ?

I'm feeling much better and better about myself after all I've learned. I know I'm still a work in progress, but aren't we all.

Please, everyone respect my choice and please don't tell me:

Don't do it

You're free !

Why ?

There's better women out there !

It's gonna hurt again !

You'll be back here on the board !

I appreciate the concern and warnings, which are correct, but I'm not done yet and just need to do this for myself more than her. Although I know I'm playing with fire, I am at least a realist now as to what to expect. I think it will be a short reunion period.

Right, wrong... .It is what it is.

Thank you for understanding.

Recap:

18 month relationship

Mid 40's

Very attractive

Lying, cheating, the whole BPD package

No shortage of men circling her and she teasing with

At least 1 rebound relationship for her since me.

So what I want is to have a kind of rebuttal book.

When she says X, I want to be able to respond with Y, and not create more chaos. I want to be able to deflect ( maybe not the right word ) or absorb her negative comments and move the conversation along in at least a neutral way.

For all I've read and the more I re-read the same passages to get clarity and  understanding, I still instinctually think like a non-BPD person.

One response I read to a borderline acting angry was the partner saying,

" I know you're not angry, just afraid" and it seemed to calm her down.

What are the scenarios and things she will be saying to me now ?

If I say:

I want to have lunch with you

I still care for you and only wish you happiness

If she says:

Are you seeing anyone ?

I, and my friends have seen you out on the weekends partying, chasing girls, I guess you don't miss me !

You abandoned me ! You haven't called me in 8 weeks !

You were cheating on me !

You pushed me away !

You don't love me !

I good with who I am as a person.   ( she has said this to me )

Will she be open to any physical relationship with me now ?

Please feel free to add possible questions and answers to my post here.

I just want to try and not get too tangled up in her web. LOL

Thx

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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2014, 02:43:24 PM »

Why not start with something simple like "How have you been?"

Have you considered the possibility that she won't respond at all? How will you handle it if she ignores you? Are you prepared for that?

Don't get too far ahead of yourself. I know how easy it is to sit and try to think of all of the different possible scenarios. I think that might be setting yourself up for disappointment. It is better not to have any expectations at all. If I try to anticipate too, much then that makes things more difficult. I tend to take things too personally. I think the key is to try to tread lightly to test the waters and be prepared to handle whatever is said without taking it personally.

You also might want to review some of the communication techniques in the workshops. Also, make sure that you are secure in your boundaries as to what you will and will not accept.
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goldylamont
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2014, 03:02:53 PM »

you need to be able to mirror all of her strengths. she's very attractive, with plenty of options of other men. you need to be attractive and also be dating other women. only approach her when you are on the same level of detachment and relationship success.

if she asks if you are seeing someone, and you are, be honest and say your are. who cares about her abandonment fears? she's going to have them regardless.

tone down on all the i-love-you-still stuff until at least you start getting some type of affectionate behavior from her. if she's telling you how great her life is without you and how much fun she's having with other men then you should be able to share how great you are doing on your own as well and how much fun you are having dating. in this way you are more in tune with her current mind state and have more in common. it will be blatantly obvious if you are not and are just making yourself available to her at any cost to receive any small tidbit of affection--she's already got several guys waiting in line like puppy dogs for her attention--don't be that guy.

don't be that guy.

as stated before. be prepared for no response. or for a negative response. and be prepared to walk away and leave it alone for a while.

you *must* give yourself a timeline and an endgame strategy. how much isht will you put up with and for how long? i successfully re-engaged with my ex and got at least an attempt at a recycle. i understand how you feel. of course the recycle was fake and didn't work out. but i needed to do this for closure myself. i will say though that i never would have done this if i had known about BPD. but alas you are headstrong in this regard. the reason i consider my re-engagement a success, even though the r/s failed big time was that i knew the chances i was taking. and i had a specific amount of time i was willing to wait for her to behave accordingly (1 month in my case) before i cut all ties. i did my own thing. was happy and dating others and had just as much if not more good things going on my life as she did. we were on the same level. finally, i waited for her to start giving me cues that she wanted to retry, so i timed things and went all-in in one last ultra-romantic hail mary. and i don't regret it. because i knew that if this didn't work out that she was too nutty to be with. it was going to hurt like hell but at least i would have a final answer-- for myself. on *my* terms. and on my own timeline.

honestly seeing your situation i highly doubt it will work out at all. but, if this is your disposition if you do the things above then even if it doesn't work out you don't feel bad or guilty (or embarrassed) about trying. hope this helps.

and sorry for the repetition, but, please don't be the needy guy, orbiter, do whatever she wants-guy. if this is your play when things don't work out you'll feel bad about yourself. if you are in a strong position the whole time, sure you'll feel terrible about the fact that the r/s will never work out, but you won't feel bad about your behavior or feel like you tried to hard.
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takingandsending
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 03:37:03 PM »

In Pain,

How about, "I am going out to lunch. Would you care to join me?" It leaves her with the choice of connecting, with no projection of hope, fear, desire, etc. on your part.

Think about what your core values are and use these to maintain your boundaries in your interactions.

Good luck. 
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In Pain
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 04:30:30 PM »

The following was suggested to me. And although I do like it, its light and friendly, but it assumes we’re not on good terms.  In fact the last short text I had with her, didn’t end too bad !  LOL

"Hi, I know we're not on good terms right now, but when you feel better, feel free to send a message, I'm quite happy to be friends, Hope you're happy xx"

I also was thinking the text should not force her to elicit a response, which this does.  I just want to open the door.  If she responds I could then suggest a casual meeting.

I could change it to:

"Hi, hope all is well and you had a great summer. I hope we can still be friends. I hope you're happy xoxo"

And I do feel she will respond quickly…….she has always been; Feel…React…Think

And she will want to show that she is ok.  Just my thoughts.

Boy oh boy……so much thinking involved for a darn text !  LOL

Other suggestions appreciated.  thx
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goldylamont
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 05:00:28 PM »

The following was suggested to me. And although I do like it, its light and friendly, but it assumes we’re not on good terms.  In fact the last short text I had with her, didn’t end too bad !  LOL

"Hi, I know we're not on good terms right now, but when you feel better, feel free to send a message, I'm quite happy to be friends, Hope you're happy xx"

I also was thinking the text should not force her to elicit a response, which this does.  I just want to open the door.  If she responds I could then suggest a casual meeting.

I could change it to:

"Hi, hope all is well and you had a great summer. I hope we can still be friends. I hope you're happy xoxo"

And I do feel she will respond quickly…….she has always been; Feel…React…Think

And she will want to show that she is ok.  Just my thoughts.

Boy oh boy……so much thinking involved for a darn text !  LOL

Other suggestions appreciated.  thx

no. i wouldn't recommend bringing up the past or hoping to be friends or well wishing. do something similar to what takingandsending suggested. say something short and vague with no projections of hope/fear/desire on your part. just throw out an offer to hang out and see what you get back. everything you've written thus far sounds apologetic and not genuine. i think takingandsending's suggestion was more on the mark.
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 07:00:32 PM »

 Full disclosure:  I don't like texting for r/s issues... .

So... .why not just call her.  "Hey... curious if you would like to get together for lunch.  Hope you have been well... .  Looking forward to catching up... "

That kind of thing.

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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 07:08:51 PM »

I agree about calling.  It's the best thing. If she wants to hear from you she'll pick up, or return your call.  If not, she won't. 

Otherwise, a simple text being explicit and to the point about what you would like: "Hi, I'd like to have lunch with you.  Are you up for it?" - I think it's always a good thing to express what your intent is... .which is, you'd like to see her.
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2014, 07:31:43 PM »

I now have been given 3 different approaches:

1. Offer friendship, wish her well and make her come to me when she is comfortable. Her option.

2.  Make an offer of lunch. My option.

3.  Call her.

Of course she can decide to not answer and just wait for my voice mail and then respond if she wants to. But if she does answer, it kind of puts both of us on the spot with no room to think and evaluate our answers to each other. She can also be somewhat abrupt on the phone. Then again, a voice goes a long way towards connection.

A healthy women picks a man with her ears, men pick with their eyes.

Of course she can choose call, don't call, lunch, no lunch, answer, don't answer.

All are ultimately her options.

I'm guess I'm just trying to offer up the best possible opening.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't !

In the end... .It's a crap shoot and if she wants to reconnect with me, either option will work with her.

In prep for my hopeful meeting with her, I am working on getting my head straighter, I'm feeling good, lower my expectations, practice positive communication skills ( I am going to a speed dating event tonight ) work on positive visual communication, learn what boundaries I need and how to set those boundaries.

Yes, today it may be all about her, but in reality it's all about me and using these skills in the future... .With or without her.

For those of you in pain, I feel for you... .And I may be there again myself soon, but for now... .I feel good.

That's all I can ask for.

Thx
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goldylamont
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 02:34:50 AM »

In prep for my hopeful meeting with her, I am working on getting my head straighter, I'm feeling good, lower my expectations, practice positive communication skills ( I am going to a speed dating event tonight ) work on positive visual communication, learn what boundaries I need and how to set those boundaries.

Yes, today it may be all about her, but in reality it's all about me and using these skills in the future... .With or without her.

these are good things to do and this is a good attitude to have. if you really want her back, i think you'll find that what you need to do to accomplish this, will be the same things you need to detach and become stronger on your own without her. the best approach is to not try and rekindle your previous r/s. that r/s is over, it's dead. i think the more successful approach is to treat her and any potential engagement like a you would a new r/s.
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MaybeSo
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2014, 05:54:28 AM »

Excerpt
appreciate the concern and warnings, which are correct, but I'm not done yet and just need to do this for myself more than her. Although I know I'm playing with fire, I am at least a realist now as to what to expect. I think it will be a short reunion period.

Right, wrong... .It is what it is.

Thank you for understanding.

Recap:

18 month relationship

Mid 40's

Very attractive

Lying, cheating, the whole BPD package

No shortage of men circling her and she teasing with

At least 1 rebound relationship for her since me.

So what I want is to have a kind of rebuttal book.

When she says X, I want to be able to respond with Y, and not create more chaos. I want to be able to deflect ( maybe not the right word ) or absorb her negative comments and move the conversation along in at least a neutral way.

This is the Staying Board, but it’s also called bpdfamily.com. Lets not loose sight of the fact that this woman has a very serious mental illness. It’s not just a more challenging dating game…it’s a serious illness. People die from this disorder…we see it on this board way too often.  She is a real person with a real disorder, certainly as serious as BiPolar or severe recurrent depression etc.  The symptoms of her illness show up the most in close, intimate relationships. It’s not fun for her, either, despite what it may look like from outside.  It’s not a dating game, it’s a serious illness triggered by intimacy.  You will not escape that. It will be very, very hard. 

It is a huge responsibility to be in any relationship, much less a relationship with a person who is already disadvantaged with a mental illness that is triggered by intimate contact.   
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Vindi
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2014, 10:00:24 AM »

i would go with calling her on the phone... .texting is so impersonal, there is no voice behind it, just words... .i see too many people "sliding" that finger on the phone and scrolling and texting, yet no one picks up the phone anymore for real conversation.

A phone call would be best... .and i wish you luck and hope thing go

your way!
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2014, 12:39:31 PM »

This is the Staying Board, but it’s also called bpdfamily.com. Lets not loose sight of the fact that this woman has a very serious mental illness. It’s not just a more challenging dating game…it’s a serious illness.

In pain,

Can you let us know if there has been an official diagnosis?  Was there ever treatment.

While BPD traits and full blown diagnosed BPD generally get dealt with the same way... .don't JADE... the lessons and all that. 

When you are predicting things for the future... .or thinking about "facing the facts"... .the official status of the illness is something to consider.

In my case we actually ruled out BPD... .but diagnosed other disorders and most importantly the family therapist helped us understand how our individual issues got mixed together in a family in a really bad way.

My wife still shows traits but we know the cause of those traits is not actual diagnosable BPD.  I would have called her extremely high functioning before her evaluations... .now I know why. 

In my case the prognosis for the future may look a little better than if we had a BPD treatment plan to deal with.



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In Pain
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2014, 03:57:11 PM »

Fair question:

No, I do not have an actual doctor’s diagnosis of BPD, or a family member telling me this either.

But in the 18 months I have know her, from day one she has clearly exhibited 8 out of 10 symptoms of BPD…... including cutting. ( this happened before I knew her ).  Our first date was even difficult, to say the least !

I also know her childhood upbringing, which had all the elements necessary to produce a BPD individual.  It truly saddens me, and it’s not fair, but it was what it was.

I am in no way flippant or irresponsible in my own personal diagnosis of her with BPD…and wish it wasn’t true…... but it all fits perfectly…... too perfectly I’m afraid.

But it’s a fair question.  All good.

Thx

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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2014, 04:34:34 PM »

Fair question:

No, I do not have an actual doctor’s diagnosis of BPD, or a family member telling me this either.

But in the 18 months I have know her, from day one she has clearly exhibited 8 out of 10 symptoms of BPD…... including cutting. ( this happened before I knew her ).  Our first date was even difficult, to say the least !

I also know her childhood upbringing, which had all the elements necessary to produce a BPD individual.  It truly saddens me, and it’s not fair, but it was what it was.

I am in no way flippant or irresponsible in my own personal diagnosis of her with BPD…and wish it wasn’t true…... but it all fits perfectly…... too perfectly I’m afraid.

But it’s a fair question.  All good.

Thx

Yep... .and I commend you for using metrics in your discussion.  8 out 10.

Is 5 the magic number for a diagnosis?  Can't remember offhand.

What two is she "missing".

Still... .many disorders exhibit similar lists. 

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In Pain
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2014, 05:01:53 PM »

Hey !  She only has 7 out of 9 characteristics !

Luck ME  !



She’s Got It !  Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

She’s Got It !  A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

She’s Got It !  Identity disturbance, such as a significant and persistent unstable self-image or sense of self

She’s Got It !  Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging ( sex, substance abuse, reckless driving,

She’s Got It !  Recurrent suicidal behavior, self-mutilating behavior

She’s Got It !  Emotional instability due to significant reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

Chronic feelings of emptiness

She’s Got It !  Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

Transient, stress-related paranoid thoughts

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123Phoebe
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2014, 05:08:42 PM »

Excerpt
appreciate the concern and warnings, which are correct, but I'm not done yet and just need to do this for myself more than her. Although I know I'm playing with fire, I am at least a realist now as to what to expect. I think it will be a short reunion period.

Right, wrong... .It is what it is.

Thank you for understanding.

Recap:

18 month relationship

Mid 40's

Very attractive

Lying, cheating, the whole BPD package

No shortage of men circling her and she teasing with

At least 1 rebound relationship for her since me.



So what I want is to have a kind of rebuttal book.

When she says X, I want to be able to respond with Y, and not create more chaos. I want to be able to deflect ( maybe not the right word ) or absorb her negative comments and move the conversation along in at least a neutral way.

This is the Staying Board, but it’s also called bpdfamily.com. Lets not loose sight of the fact that this woman has a very serious mental illness. It’s not just a more challenging dating game…it’s a serious illness. People die from this disorder…we see it on this board way too often.  She is a real person with a real disorder, certainly as serious as BiPolar or severe recurrent depression etc.  The symptoms of her illness show up the most in close, intimate relationships. It’s not fun for her, either, despite what it may look like from outside.  It’s not a dating game, it’s a serious illness triggered by intimacy.  You will not escape that. It will be very, very hard. 

It is a huge responsibility to be in any relationship, much less a relationship with a person who is already disadvantaged with a mental illness that is triggered by intimate contact.   

I agree with MaybeSo.  

To me, this sounds, I don't know... .Like there's not a lot of love behind it, but trying to win a prize.  

Maybe you've already explained your intentions in another thread and I'm missing the heartfelt sentiments, warm fuzzies.  

What is it about this woman that has you tongue-tied, looking for approaches of how to start off a conversation?  This is only the tip of the iceberg in communication skills... .

What is it that you're hoping to achieve with her?
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In Pain
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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2014, 07:12:58 PM »

My love for her has already been expressed previously and in personal counseling.

What I hope to achieve is to be together with her again because I do have those

strong feeling for her.

My discussions and the current tone of my current postings is much different than my previous attitude. If I sound colder, it's confidence, if I sound all knowing, it's understanding, if I sound unsure, its my desire to learn more.

The first 60 days of our separation had me feeling and acting like a love sick 14 year old girl. It was embarrassing. And all consuming. I have done much reading on BPD in the past 30 days and it has taken so much of the blame and burden off my shoulders. ( and explains my 20 lbs weight loss ). My understanding of this terrible personality disorder is continuing, but I feel I do have the basic concepts understood.

FYI….she is on my mind 24/7………But without the negativity.

To understand what is going on in their head, I must come to a logical conclusion. And then reverse my thinking 180 degrees, and accept something that makes no sense to a normal person.

FYI... .The space shuttle flies in space... .Upside down and backwards !

I have also been able to separate her actions from the person I love and from me personally. It's odd, but it's working for me. Her actions that hurt me, were never about me.

Was there love on her part ? I think so, but only in the limited way a BPD can love.

My healing has begun and I'm moving forward so that I can reconnect with her in a healthy way, with confidence and understanding of what and how I need to set boundaries for myself.

If I were to have approached her 2 weeks ago, she would have seen me for the weak person I was and walked all over me. I need to be strong, confident, somewhat aloof and prepared for her outbursts.

That said, I still want my approach to her to work and open the door.

I am not looking to be cold and heartless. Quite the contrary, a firm strong confident demeanor accompanying real caring is what she will respect.

Look, truth told, I would prefer to hold her in my arms, tell her I love her dearly, and shower her with gifts. That didn't work the first time.

Everything I did was wrong, but I had no understanding of her BPD.

I agree that this is a new relationship, the old one is over. New restaurants, new adventures... .I will ask her what SHE wants to do tonight. I can't be a phony, but I guess I need to reinvent this relationship. Hopefully it will be better for me as well. The setting of a boundary when she starts to rage and vent towards me, will be my first test of weather I can handle this girl.

I also know I must be prepared for the possible eventual loss and terrible pain of loosing this girl once again.

Question:

I have to remember that when she is not in BPD mode... .is she a normal girl ?

Or is she always in BPD mode, just at different levels ?
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2014, 03:14:17 AM »

Hello In Pain. I like your angle. I feel you have had many realisations. I am not certain you can expect a pwBPD to be able to achieve the same.   

My BPDgf is on my mind continuously. I fight to get her out. I'm unsure if 24/7 is healthy.

You'll ask her what she wants to do?. My bet her response will be something along the lines of "I don't know... .what do you want to do?". It's mirroring at it's finest.

Regarding your closing questions.

Not likely. Just functioning normally or coping well.

If she actually has BPD, it is not something you can just shrug off when you feel like it or when things are going your way.

I believe I have a fairly deep scientific understanding of BPD. I am also more than happy to be corrected in case I actually don't.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

She is always in BPD mode in a sense. They can function in healthy ways at times. It is not usually always ugly. pwBPD can be smart, funny, entertaining, beautiful, sensitive, adoring, intelligent, and fun to be with... .

I sense even with the progress YOU have made that you underestimate BPD. Often it is even harder to cope with the loss on a recycle when you throw everything you've got into the relationship and try so hard to save it (by using all the tools) only to have it backfire.

I know you have posted that you are prepared if the relationship fails.

Keep us updated as every situation and person is different. I would be happy if it works out for the both of you... .but you have been warned... .that way be dragons.   

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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2014, 04:45:12 AM »

I was just going to say good luck asking her what she wants to do.

You will have to take charge just like in any rs really but even more so with the BPD.

Be direct,  it's kinda like giving orders,  we are going to do this tonight.

I found that worked for me,  mine had really bad flaking tendencies.  And would often attempt to get out of hanging out and want to talk on the phone instead "get your ass over here now Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)" worked a treat.
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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2014, 06:04:08 AM »

I was just going to say good luck asking her what she wants to do.

You will have to take charge just like in any rs really but even more so with the BPD.

Be direct,  it's kinda like giving orders,  we are going to do this tonight.

I found that worked for me,  mine had really bad flaking tendencies.  And would often attempt to get out of hanging out and want to talk on the phone instead "get your ass over here now Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)" worked a treat.

I agree... .think about the concept of being a "benevolent dictator"... .

You need to be clear in your mind what a healthy r/s looks like, feels like, acts like... .and then do that... .

When she goes negative or bad... .make sure there is no positive reinforcement.  When she does good... .healthy things... .add in tons of reinforcement...
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2014, 07:40:14 AM »

Please give me an example of good healthy things.

Please give me an example of reinforcement.

Thx
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2014, 11:56:58 AM »

Please give me an example of good healthy things.

Please give me an example of reinforcement.

Thx

So... .broadly speaking

If she wants something... .and berates you for it... .under no circumstances should you "reinforce" negative behavior... .the berating.  The hard thing is that saying... .I won't do this until you stop berating... .will usually escalate the argument.  You instead of telling them what and why you are doing it... .you just do it. 

They are watching... and will eventually figure it out

Also... .they do what they do... .because it works for them... .in an odd way.

If you as a non... make sure it stops working for them... .they ... most likely... will change their behavior.


When they do something right... .so they ask you for something and say it in a nice way.  Validate that... .don't go over the top... just make sure they know it is appreciated.

Make sure they get what they want and then some... .

Again... .they are watching... .and will figure it out.


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